Baby Vuolo Is a Girl

[Satan'sFortress]

I continue to be truly stunned by the strong feelings against nicknames as names!  Wow, I had no idea.  I am now wondering if people really hate my kid's name (it was actually mentioned here) and think it is stupid.  I guess I am deaf to the notion that the diminutive or nickname is not dignified or "good enough," never realized that other people perceived so differently.  

Think of the following---would they be any less influential if they had gone by the formal version?

• Harry Truman (his actual name)
• Henry Kissinger
• Billy Graham
• Toni Morrison
• Sally Ride
• Andy Warhol
• Bill Gates
• Betty Ford
• Ted Koppel, Tom Brokaw, Bob Woodward
• Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday

 

 

[tabitha2]

There are differences  though. Sue  or Kate or Sally as a full name is simply  not the same as  naming your daughter just Trixie or Candy or Dolley . The Those names are just too cutesy and twee to be taken seriously in the working world In my opinion.

[SapphireSlytherin]

I think some folks don't understand what a nickname is. 

A name is a name, no matter what it is - whether it's Apple or Joe or Jack or Cindy or Annie.

A nickname is a name OTHER THAN ONE'S TRUE NAME. If one's true name is Annie, Annie is NOT a nickname.

 

[Glasgowghirl]

2 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

There are differences  though. Sue  or Kate or Sally as a full name is simply  not the same as  naming your daughter just Trixie or Candy or Dolley . The Those names are just too cutesy and twee to be taken seriously in the working world In my opinion.

I agree in those instances however discrimination on people's names is something people should have move on from by now.

[SassyPants]

27 minutes ago, karen77 said:

My son has a not long (two syllable) name, that can be shortened into a nickname that I really don't like (neither does my husband), I like the other option which is shorter,  so think Teddy for a nickname, or Ted,  but my husband still doesn't like that one. Needless to say, he goes by his full name, which isn't that big of a deal. We'll see what happens as he gets older and his friends give him nicknames in school. (he's only 5)

If he's anything like our son, he'll be Ted. LOL

[GreatScott]

If you give your kid a ‘nickname’ for a name, people will wonder why you didn’t give them the formal name. 

If you give them a formal name, people will wonder why you bothered when you’re just going to call them by the nickname. 

As I’ve noticed with most parenting things, you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Everyone’s got an opinion on why you’re doing it wrong 

[just_ordinary]

Very interesting topic. Does anyone else make a distinction between nicknames and petnames?

For me a nickname is mostly a version of your real name. In my generation there are not many nicknames after situations (like the Swimmer example from above) or else. This was much more common in my parents generation. 

A petname is often something cutesy used by family members. Calling a child monkey or little one. Those names don’t tend to leave the family circle but stick with you forever. Like my 194cm tall husband who is still little baby to his mum. It’s sweet but makes me giggle every time.

[nickelodeon]

On 4/10/2018 at 9:32 AM, Mavis said:

I think the best case scenario would be a very well-dressed, demure, pastor's daughter, who is expected to conform to gender roles in a way that is much the same as many other girls, and is allowed to play a (suitably feminine) sport, and *fingers crossed* go to a fundie Christian school. But, in my mind, that's way better than a bone-tired sister mom to 10+ younger kids who is barely educated to a middle school level. 

You're probably right about this. (And I definitely agree that insidious gender roles are quite mainstream and the burden for their perpetuation does not just rest on fundies. That's something we forget a lot.)

But worst-case scenario: the kid is gay, and her parents buy her a lot of books about how being a lesbian will ruin your life, and send her to a lot of extra youth ministry events so that the holiness will rub off on her, and keep telling her that they DO love her and THAT'S why they just want to make sure she's good with Jesus!! Alternately, she grows up and gets pregnant but has a health condition that makes carrying a pregnancy life-threatening. Her parents tell her it's better to die than murder an innocent fetus. It's quite likely that none of these things will ever happen, but I'm not sure if the best case scenario is worth the risk of the worst case scenarios, if you know what I mean?

[PainfullyAware]

Well it is something to wake up and find your name is someone's pet peeve! I have a traditional, non trendy nickname for a longer, Anna Karenina type name that's an acknowledgement to my Eastern European background. I definitely don't mind nicknames that are stand-alone names on their own. For example I find it a little strange if someone names their kid something like Chicago like Kanye and Kim Kardashian, but specifies that the kid will go by Chi.  it seems like a lot of extra steps to pick an original name and an original nickname. Like why not just name the kid by the nickname? My one strong opinion, after spending a lifetime correcting people, is do not make your kid go by a nickname for their middle name! It's very strange to always have to say something like - actually my name isn't Karen,  it's Anna! (using the Anna Karenina example)

[Ivycoveredtower]

I have a name that if you knew it you could figure out roughly what year I was born it. it isn't classic but it's trendy so it dates me and was uber popular the year I was born and for years before and after. of course it also has so many spellings so I never could find those rulers with my name.  actually not true I think I found one once.  

really not a fan of my name. I meet to many people with it and am always turning thinking someone is talking to me.  it wouldn't be so bad if say it was a classic name really wish my mom had given me the name she wanted and not the one my dad wanted. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

Just now, PainfullyAware said:

My one strong opinion, after spending a lifetime correcting people, is do not make your kid go by a nickname for their middle name!

My cousin is James Christopher. He goes by Chris.

[Jaeniduggar]

22 minutes ago, GreatScott said:

If you give your kid a ‘nickname’ for a name, people will wonder why you didn’t give them the formal name. 

If you give them a formal name, people will wonder why you bothered when you’re just going to call them by the nickname. 

As I’ve noticed with most parenting things, you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. Everyone’s got an opinion on why you’re doing it wrong 

I would personally always choose to have a formal name for the child, even if I decide to call them by their nickname. Because then the kid will be able to decide for themselves, if they want to use their nickname or their formal name later when they are grown up. But that's just me.

[Chevreuil]

I made a mistake with my twins' names, I called them Jonathan and Joseph, didn't think much about it until they were well over a year and someone made a joke that to avoid mixing up their names he will just call them both "Jo" and I was like "but Jo isn't a nickname for... Ah crap" 

My kids are raised pretty gender neutral, daughter has never been into barbies or dolls and never went through a Disney princess phase but she does dance ballet (and a bunch of other styles) and loves dresses. My son also dances ballet (and jazz) though so we don't treat it as "girly" son also prefers dolls because he wants nothing more than to be a dad when he is older. He once mentioned casually how he couldn't wait to be pregnant and I didn't think much of it when I told him he couldn't get pregnant as he does not have a uterus. Well, lesson learned, I should have been more sensitive because I broke his little heart. Daughter tried to help by saying "it's ok, at least you can pee standing up"

[Daisy0322]

3 minutes ago, Chevreuil said:

He once mentioned casually how he couldn't wait to be pregnant and I didn't think much of it when I told him he couldn't get pregnant as he does not have a uterus. Well, lesson learned, I should have been more sensitive because I broke his little heart. Daughter tried to help by saying "it's ok, at least you can pee standing up"

Aw what a sweetheart, I love this story! Especially your daughters condolences haha

[GreatScott]

@Ivycoveredtower I also have a name that makes it easy to pick point when I was born. I’m kind of on the cusp of its popularity though- it was a President’s daughter’s name and she’s a few years older than me. There were some names my year similar, with different spellings, but then the year or two  after me is full of it. Thankfully I have the standard spelling (I knew a girl who had all of the vowels swapped for different ones, where I have an E, she had an A!) and my name is easy to say/spell/pronounce. 

But I always hated it. I hate that I don’t have an easy to fall on nickname and as an adult I found my name childish. My brother and sister have more classic names that they could grow in to and I don’t. The one thing I was glad was that they didn’t give me an my twin brother matching names  I hated being ‘one of the twins’ enough, I couldn’t imagine alps having similar names. I fought to have an identity outside of my brother and it just would have sucked even more  

 

My husband also has a name that shouts when he was born, although he’s the end of that popularity train. As my husband and I start to try to start a family, I think we’re going to lean towards more classic names. Except it’s hard to avoid, since there’s no way to know if 20 other women in our area will all name their son or daughter the same thing! 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

38 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

I continue to be truly stunned by the strong feelings against nicknames as names!  Wow, I had no idea.  I am now wondering if people really hate my kid's name (it was actually mentioned here) and think it is stupid.  I guess I am deaf to the notion that the diminutive or nickname is not dignified or "good enough," never realized that other people perceived so differently.  

Think of the following---would they be any less influential if they had gone by the formal version?

• Harry Truman (his actual name)
• Henry Kissinger
• Billy Graham
• Toni Morrison
• Sally Ride
• Andy Warhol
• Bill Gates
• Betty Ford
• Ted Koppel, Tom Brokaw, Bob Woodward
• Ella Fitzgerald, Billie Holiday

I should say that I didn't want MY kids names to be shortened to nicknames, I don't care either way what YOU call your kids, if you want a nickname for you child that is up to you.  My friend is the same way her son is named Nathan, and she HATES it when people call him Nate, so we respect that and call him Nathan, oddly enough she goes by a nick name as she hates her formal name.  With my daughter her name is like Julia and it would be like calling her Julie,  If I wanted her name to be Julie I would have named her Julie, but I named her Julia, if that makes more sense. 

[AnnEggBlandHer?]

19 hours ago, Georgiana said:

May I complain here about a naming trend?

I HATE when parents give their daughters nicknames as their legal names.  HATE IT.  It's deliberately infantalizing, and it is no mystery as to why this is a trend for FEMALE babies and not for males.  

I get wanting to call your child something less formal.  My cousin is named Ellie.  That's the name she goes by, it's the name her parents always intended to call her, and it's the name she's gone by since birth.  No one has ever called her anything else in normal conversation.  But on her birth certificate, it says Elizabeth.  And when she is introduced as valedictorian of her class, she will be introduced as Elizabeth. Calling her Ellie would be inappropriate in that context.  My friend goes by her nickname, except when she is at work...for the FBI (don't get excited, it's a big organization and she's not an agent  ).  

Women do formal things and need formal names!  You wouldn't name a boy Tom or Steve.  That's not a trend because it's obviously dumb.  What if they grow up to be President or a Judge or a lawyer or a doctor?  You going to force them to be Dr. Steve? Sign all their court briefs with Steve?  President Steve?

Call your kids whatever you want, but don't give girls "cutesie" legal names assuming they'll never need a formal name!  They might!  There are some circumstances where using a nickname is disrespectful.  Why are you DEMANDING that your daughter always be addressed informally and familiarly, even by people who have no right to address her that way? Against her wishes?  I know some adults go by a nickname 100% of the time even professionally, but they get to make that choice as adults and can change it at any time.  But you aren't even giving your child that option!

Sorry, my friend just named her daughter "Kate", and it bothers me that this little girl will have to be called by a nickname for her entire life, even when it is contextually disrespectful to do so.  She might be president some day, for Rufus' sake!

I disagree. In my experience the most common examples are men named Frank, not Francis. I don’t think that would really hinder anyone. Also, many nicknames are becoming names in their own right: Sadie and Sally used to be nicknames for Sarah, but most people using the name Sadie now probably don’t even know that origin. I have a friend who loved the name Lucy, but felt like she ‘had to’ name her daughter Lucille, even though she really didn’t like the name. She did, and daughter goes exclusively by Lucy...which would have been a perfectly fine legal name in my opinion. Maybe parents don’t like or couldn’t decide between Katherine or Kathleen or Katelyn or whatever other spelling or variation, and since they planned to use Kate anyway, just used Kate. 

[justoneoftwo]

We gave LO a long name with a bunch of nick names, because we wanted him to be able to chose who he was and change it as he grew.  Richard, Rich, Richy and Dick are all different people, and a baby could chose which one to be.  

We also made sure there was a gender neutral option for him, so if he wanted to he could use that (there are careers where it would be helpful). 

For us it was about the versatility, if he wants to be a doctor one name fits, if he wants to be an actor another might work.  He can be him and his name can always fit. 

 

This may have come from both of us having short names that we didn't always feel fit us.

[singsingsing]

Fun fact: Lucille started out as a nickname, Lucy did not. So technically speaking if you wanted to give a child a ‘formal’ name it should be Lucy, not Lucille!

Luke also isn’t a nickname. Lucas is the Latin version of the name and Luke is just the English version.

[mango_fandango]

Boys are named Charlie, Harry etc all the time!! The heck are you on about??

I’d argue that some short names eg Kate are fine. You can always change your name when older if you hate it that much. There is a whole world of difference between Kate and something really stupid like Bunnie or Petal or Buddy.

[Mama Mia]

6 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I do think it's much more common to give girls "cutesy" nicknames as their first name. Max and Jack are nicknames that sound more adult, unlike nicknames ending in an "ee" sound. It does happen for boys, of course, but it does seem more common for parents to give those kinds of names to girls.

In just my own humble opinion - the “problem” isn’t with cutsie sounding names - the problem is people denigrate anything they feel is too feminine ( or “ethnic” - which also fits in this general conversation ) . If the name isn’t perceived as traditionally serious - meaning WASPy Male - or at the very least WASPY Males equally composed female counterpart - the name isn’t up to standard. Personally, I completely understand the desire and need to avoid that negative judgement - but also think it should, ideally, be fought against.

[TZmom]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

If he's anything like our son, he'll be Ted. LOL

I love hearing about other Teds/Teddys. Mine is under 10 and still goes by Teddy. My dad and I are the only ones who occasionally call him Ted.

[Satan'sFortress]

31 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

We gave LO a long name with a bunch of nick names, because we wanted him to be able to chose who he was and change it as he grew.  Richard, Rich, Richy and Dick are all different people, and a baby could chose which one to be.  

For us it was about the versatility, if he wants to be a doctor one name fits, if he wants to be an actor another might work.  He can be him and his name can always fit. 

 

But this is what I am missing---what names go with what professions?  Who decides that?  I never thought that naming my kid a diminutive of a standard male name meant that he couldn't peruse a certain career. (Not singling you out, @justoneoftwo this seems to be a fairly strong consensus.  I just don't get a particular image in my head of a Richard versus a Rich.  I can't believe that the name we give our children weighs that heavily on their eventual personality.  Maybe in some extreme cases, but the original post that started this thread drift was talking about diminutives of common names, like Steve for Steven.

[justoneoftwo]

6 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

But this is what I am missing---what names go with what professions?  Who decides that?  I never thought that naming my kid a diminutive of a standard male name meant that he couldn't peruse a certain career. (Not singling you out, @justoneoftwo this seems to be a fairly strong consensus.  I just don't get a particular image in my head of a Richard versus a Rich.  I can't believe that the name we give our children weighs that heavily on their eventual personality.  Maybe in some extreme cases, but the original post that started this thread drift was talking about diminutives of common names, like Steve for Steven.

Who decides?  No idea, but I do know that His Honor Edward sounds better to me than His Honor Teddy, but "the academy goes to Teddy X" doesn't sound as odd.  Actors use stage names all the time, so there must be something to it.  I also know that when I apply to jobs in certain industries a girly name ending in y hurts me.  Is that fair? Not really.  Is that how it is? Yep. The world is changing and maybe when my nearly 2 year old is looking for a job it won't matter, but it might. It doesn't matter much, but it might.  

Honestly I don't care much when its other people's names, but I do care about mine, so we tried to give LO as many options as possible. 

My sister's rule for her kids was that the name had to sound right when prefaced by "Her Honor Justice ..." "the acadamy goes to..." "Doctor..." or "Nobel laureate..." and we liked the idea but didn't think many names fit it all, so nicknames helped.

[Satan'sFortress]

19 hours ago, Georgiana said:

May I complain here about a naming trend?

I HATE when parents give their daughters nicknames as their legal names.  HATE IT.  It's deliberately infantalizing, and it is no mystery as to why this is a trend for FEMALE babies and not for males.  

Women do formal things and need formal names!  You wouldn't name a boy Tom or Steve.  That's not a trend because it's obviously dumb.  What if they grow up to be President or a Judge or a lawyer or a doctor?  You going to force them to be Dr. Steve? Sign all their court briefs with Steve?  President Steve?

 

I realize this was directed at female names, and I actually do see your point to a degree.  However, the bold, above, is just not true.  I know plenty of men/boys with actual names that are diminutives.  I don't think that it is dumb.  Steve Jobs seemed to do just fine using the using Steve instead of Steven---I can't imagine that his life would have been altered if that name had been on his birth certificate.  Why can't a Tom or a Kate be a doctor?  What am I missing here?