Dillards 55: Selling the High Life

[singsingsing]

It's definitely not a given that Jill was the one forcing the 'lunch at work every day' thing.* Maybe it was Derick who wanted her there. People have speculated that Jill has an anxiety problem, but has anyone ever considered that Derick might? During that time he had just moved back to America from living abroad in an extremely different environment and culture for a long time, courted, got engaged to and married a girl he barely knew in a matter of months, suddenly started appearing on a reality TV show, started working a new job, his mother had cancer and he seemed unsure about whether she would even live, AND his wife got pregnant two seconds after they got married.

Maybe Derick was the needy, neurotic one. As a manly fundie patriarch, do you think he'd be able to express fear and anxiety in a healthy way? Hell no. It would emerge in bluster, passive aggressive behaviour, blame shifting, anger, etc.

I will say this: from years of watching 19K&C and following the Duggars, Jill always seemed a bit nervous/sensitive, but she also came across as very confident, ambitious, and willing to try new things. Only after she married Derick did she seem to wilt and become so co-dependent. Whatever else is going on, Derick definitely does NOT bring out the best in her. And considering she's stuck with him for life, and it's very unlikely he'd ever have the humility to change, that's just sad.

*There's another explanation for this, though, that doesn't involve any kind of mental illness, neediness or clinginess on anyone's part: they were young and in love and this was their first opportunity to actually date. Getting together for lunch every day, ALONE!!!, might have been a thrill for them, even though at that point they were married and living together. Remember, they never actually got to date each other, and they were still very much in the honeymoon phase of their relationship.

[EyesOpen]

I’m just struck by how this model of homeschooling and preparing their daughters for (nothing but) marriage and motherhood that the duggars espouse is such a failure in making good cooks, good home makers... great parenting choices... so strange. Jessa seems like a good caring mom but she’s not been shown as an excellent cook or home keeper... Jill is... Jill. Idk. It doesn’t seem to be working!

[Chewing Gum]

True @EyesOpen, I always raised at least one eyebrow looking at their cooking skills (non existing except for Jana) or home cleaning abilities. I know Jessa’s juristriction was packing up clothes but if all she can be in life is a mom and housewife, at least prepare her for that role damn it. Infuriating actually. 

[Pecansforeveryone]

I believe there was a day trip to Focus on the Family in Colorado. Probably a planned jaunt to "an oasis, Mecca of sorts. "  I truly feel for Jill not being able to fully pursue being a nurse mid-wife. She alone seemed to be the lone Duggar girl who made any serious effort to acquire skills that might lead to a viable career. I don't have enough eye rolls for Derrick and his "quarter life" crisis.  He really is stuck in college life, international backpacker for Jesus mode. 

[singsingsing]

Another thought on the lunch thing... Jim Bob hasn't exactly worked a regular job since Jill's been around, has he? Perhaps Jim Bob was home for lunch every day. If the model Jill saw growing up was her dad at home for lunch every day, being cooked for by his wife/daughters and enjoying their company, she might have just assumed that was the normal and desired way of doing things and figured she'd be neglectful and callous to not join Derick at work for lunch every day.

Again, do I know any of this? No, it's all total speculation. Just throwing out examples of how there could be a lot more to it than simply 'Jill is insanely clingy'.

[Pecansforeveryone]

None of the Duggar really has any model for what the dynamics and demands of a 9 to 5,  40 hour+ work week.  I imagine it just all goes straight over their heads. Jill in some respects was one of the more ambitious and disciplined Duggar offspring. 

[HarleyQuinn]

It's hard for me to believe dWRECK is the anxious one when he lived outside of the country by himself and it's Jill, not him who has a death grip on his thigh in every photo. 

[singsingsing]

18 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

It's hard for me to believe dWRECK is the anxious one when he lived outside of the country by himself and it's Jill, not him who has a death grip on his thigh in every photo. 

Putting aside for a moment the fact that people with anxiety issues can and do live and travel abroad, it may be that he developed an anxiety issue after returning to the U.S. And Jill's physical clinginess doesn't really say anything about Derick's state of mind. They could both have anxiety problems (or maybe neither of them do), and Jill was raised to believe in the necessity of constant PDA between spouses.

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, EyesOpen said:

I’m just struck by how this model of homeschooling and preparing their daughters for (nothing but) marriage and motherhood that the duggars espouse is such a failure in making good cooks, good home makers... great parenting choices... so strange. Jessa seems like a good caring mom but she’s not been shown as an excellent cook or home keeper... Jill is... Jill. Idk. It doesn’t seem to be working!

Unfortunately,  I think this is just a reality of having so many kids, so much to do and not enough time. Nothing that the Duggars do screams mastery or perfection; rather the exact opposite, just enough to get by. Think of feeding babies right from a can, no sheets on the beds, no outside activities or real friends until adulthood. With regards to mega families, I think the Duggars are the rule. Now the Bates girls do seem better equipped, at least the married ones. 

What I find is so odd is that JB and M lacked such self awareness that they didn't realize their "product" did (and does) not match their public claims. It's rather embarrassing for them. Then again, this is a family that marketed themselves as pure and devout fully knowing that their son molested many of their daughters.

In the words of Elaine Benes, "fake, fake, fake, fake, fake"!

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

The Duggar kids, especially the older girls were to busy raising their siblings to get any education, even SOTDRT education. Joy was handed off to Jill when Jill was 7(?) and M proceeded to have 10 more kids over the next 12 years for Jana, Jill, Jessa & Jinger to raise.  M always talked about how they switched jurisdictions but I don't think those 4 did, they found where they were good and stayed there. Jana taught the kids and her and Jinger were in charge of laundry, Jinger was the shopper/closet organizer, Jill was the nurturer & Jana supervised it all. Jessa was/is smart she learned a lot, as did Jana, but I think Jill was just having fun "taking care" of her siblings. She got a basic basic education but learned no skills certainly to coping skills I think Jinger is the same way but she has Jeremy and he's helping her grow up and learn which is why I think they waited to have a kid, Jinger needed some life skills first, Jill didn't wait and Derick is too stupid/selfish to care what Jill needs/ed or wants/ed, Jessa is fine because she' pretty strong willed and self sufficient, I think Joy will be as well because she is a bit like Jessa and Austin was at least given a work ethic and forced to wait a few years by flipping 5 houses before he could marry, very smart of papa Forsyth.  Jana, when/if she marries will be fine as well she's a lot older now & she's been running a large household for the better part of her life. 

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

True @EyesOpen, I always raised at least one eyebrow looking at their cooking skills (non existing except for Jana) or home cleaning abilities. I know Jessa’s juristriction was packing up clothes but if all she can be in life is a mom and housewife, at least prepare her for that role damn it. Infuriating actually. 

Jessa is actually the only daughter thus far who doesn’t seem to be much of a cook. The others have all been shown cooking on the show and have posted about stuff they’ve cooked on social media - most of it has been relatively normal and decent looking. Even Jessa has put in some effort at learning too. I think for her it’s just a lack of interest and being naturally better in other areas. It’s not an issue to me as long as she and Ben are keep their boys healthy and fed (which they appear to be doing.)

The idea that none of them besides Jana can cook really stems from TLC attempting to make it a storyline for the shows. It makes them slightly more relatable and slightly less weird to depict them as not knowing much about cooking because lots of people in their early 20s aren’t necessarily phenomenal cooks. Plus, it adds a storyline for the courtship periods. That’s why Jill didn’t know how much rice to make, Jinger couldn’t name any pasta shapes, and Jessa conveniently forgot to remove the oven manual before turning the oven on. It’s not that they’re all horrible cooks, it’s that TLC wanted to portray them as being average 20 somethings just starting out on the whole adulthood thing and showing them “learning” to cook was an easy way to help accomplish that.

[lumpentheologie]

Forgive me if this has been previously discussed somewhere, but I've never seen it mentioned before. 

I wouldn't be surprised if Jill's reaction and distress from the molestation scandal has had a different dimension than that of the other girls. Because for her, she didn't just have to deal with her own violation but also Joy's---when Joy was for all intents and purposes her daughter. SHE was the one who was supposed to be keeping Joy safe, and she wasn't able to do that. Now that everyone knows Joy was a victim, everyone also knows that Jill failed to protect her.  Of course that is a ridiculous expectation to put on a teenager, but I would bet that's how Jill felt. 

I could see how this could contribute to her wanting to keep Izzy and Sam with her as much as possible. I know Izzy stays with Cathy sometimes, but if Jill is wary of dropping off her kids at the TTH, I can't say I blame her for that.  If she absorbed the idea that Anna was at fault for Josh cheating and that left her feeling like she has to literally be grabbing her husband every possible moment to fulfill her wifely duties, I can see why she felt compelled to go to CO with him and why she would also want the kids with her too. 

This is all speculation on my part, to be clear.  And I hope I'm wrong.  It sounds like a horribly anxious existence. 

[SassyPants]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

Jessa is actually the only daughter thus far who doesn’t seem to be much of a cook. The others have all been shown cooking on the show and have posted about stuff they’ve cooked on social media - most of it has been relatively normal and decent looking. Even Jessa has put in some effort at learning too. I think for her it’s just a lack of interest and being naturally better in other areas. It’s not an issue to me as long as she and Ben are keep their boys healthy and fed (which they appear to be doing.)

The idea that none of them besides Jana can cook really stems from TLC attempting to make it a storyline for the shows. It makes them slightly more relatable and slightly less weird to depict them as not knowing much about cooking because lots of people in their early 20s aren’t necessarily phenomenal cooks. Plus, it adds a storyline for the courtship periods. That’s why Jill didn’t know how much rice to make, Jinger couldn’t name any pasta shapes, and Jessa conveniently forgot to remove the oven manual before turning the oven on. It’s not that they’re all horrible cooks, it’s that TLC wanted to portray them as being average 20 somethings just starting out on the whole adulthood thing and showing them “learning” to cook was an easy way to help accomplish that.

 

IMO it goes beyond cooking. Look at the homes of Erin, Alyssa and Whitney, compared to Jessa and Jill (apples to apples, parents with kids). I've not seen Joy's home and Jinger does not have a child, so her situation is a bit different. Truth be told, without major, constant, 24/7/365 help from their oldest daughters, even Michelle and KJ were marginal  "homemakers" by what was shown via the media.

Neither of those families had or have the militant home care regiment that the Maxwells follow.

[Ivycoveredtower]

6 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

IMO it goes beyond cooking. Look at the homes of Erin, Alyssa and Whitney, compared to Jessa and Jill (apples to apples, parents with kids). I've not seen Joy's home and Jinger does not have a child, so her situation is a bit different. Truth be told, without major, constant, 24/7/365 help from their oldest daughters, even Michelle and KJ were marginal  "homemakers" by what was shown via the media.

Neither of those families had or have the militant home care regiment that the Maxwells follow.

Kelly said she used to be a neat freak like Erin in one of the newer clips. I figure once she had five five and under she gave up. I'm sure Erin will be giving up soon unless she actually stops at three or calls in Auntie moms. (Something I think she already does from time to time.) 

[Satan'sFortress]

On 4/16/2018 at 7:05 PM, SapphireSlytherin said:

There's nothing that irritates me more than having to sit near/next to someone on a plane who is obviously ill. Well, there are other things, but in the context of this conversation...

I got pneumonia from sitting next to someone like that on a plane.  I could tell it was going to happen and had nowhere to go.

[VBOY9977]

Derick did a live video from the compound. They’re getting ready to go to big sandy. Sam was on the floor on his car seat (as always ugh) while Jill was swinging Israel. She was also wearing the same black sweatpants (?) she wore to Derick’s marathon. Interesting that she wore them to the compound. 

[Eternalbluepearl]

6 hours ago, Chewing Gum said:

I know Jessa’s juristriction was packing up clothes but if all she can be in life is a mom and housewife, at least prepare her for that role damn it. Infuriating actually. 

Maybe JimBob and Michelle really didn't care about their daughters learning to be future moms and housewives. Maybe it was only about learning the specific jobs Michelle and JimBob weren't going to do around the Duggar household.

I have never gotten over the fact that these parents didn't pack for their own young kids for trips. But, of all the Duggar weirdness, I realize I'm harping on something pretty minor. 

[HideousGreenShirt]

4 hours ago, SassyPants said:

Nothing that the Duggars do screams mastery or perfection; 

Except breeding. They seem to have mastered that.

[Satan'sFortress]

Back to the hair thread drift for a minute--I have been trying to grow out my hair for 2 years.  I have had a couple of trims, but it just seems to have stopped growing!  It doesn't look like it is breaking off & not to many split ends---it has just stopped at a bit past my shoulders.  What gives?  I have healthy hair, untreated with color--minimal styling with dryers/flat iron. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

1 hour ago, VBOY9977 said:

Derick did a live video from the compound. They’re packing to go to big sandy. Sam was on the floor on his car seat (as always ugh) while Jill was swinging with Israel. She was also wearing the same black sweatpants (?) she wore to Derick’s marathon. Interesting that she wore them to the compound. 

I thought the same thing about Jill in pants at the TTH. On to Sam I don't care what Derick said Sam sitting outside the door with young kids running all around him and bouncing basket balls ect is NOT SAFE. Also Michelle seemed shocked and i don't think too happy that Derick was doing a video. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

I'm quite happy to see Jill (my least-favorite Duggar girl) wearing pants at the TTH.

[crazysnark]

The whole "Jessa doesn't know how to cook thing" was just a storyline. If you look, Jessa's jurasdiction was homeschool checking and DINNER, Jinger had lunch and laundry. The only thing I can see Jessa not knowing how to cook is smaller portions (non casseole like things) or very simple healthy dishes that Ben gravitates towards. But she cooked for 20 people every day for God's sake. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

Just now, crazysnark said:

The whole "Jessa doesn't know how to cook thing" was just a storyline. If you look, Jessa's jurasdiction was homeschool checking and DINNER, Jinger had lunch and laundry. The only thing I can see Jessa not knowing how to cook is smaller portions (non casseole like things) or very simple healthy dishes that Ben gravitates towards. But she cooked for 20 people every day for God's sake. 

she cooked crap like Tater tot casserole for twenty people that isn't hard to do. the only thing she knew how to make when she married Ben was canned crap. 

[crazysnark]

1 hour ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

Kelly said she used to be a neat freak like Erin in one of the newer clips. I figure once she had five five and under she gave up. I'm sure Erin will be giving up soon unless she actually stops at three or calls in Auntie moms. (Something I think she already does from time to time.) 

Like Alyssa not Erin. She says this to try to push Alyssa to have 19 kids because they have the same personality. Kind of a mind game If I can do it so can you". 

1 minute ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

she cooked crap like Tater tot casserole for twenty people that isn't hard to do. the only thing she knew how to make when she married Ben was canned crap. 

I agree which is why the camera's showed her having a hard time adjusting. All they showed was she didn't know how to chop fresh veggies or start a brand new oven with plastic still inside. One of those cases of being not honest yet not lying at the same time. 

32 minutes ago, HideousGreenShirt said:

Except breeding. They seem to have mastered that.

Not really. Jill can't pop em out because of her difficult births and seems to space her kids 2.5 years apart, Jessa has slowed down  bit and had one troubled birth, Jinger is most likely for at least NFP, and Joy seems to be on the Jill route at this point. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

6 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

Like Alyssa not Erin. She says this to try to push Alyssa to have 19 kids because they have the same personality. Kind of a mind game If I can do it so can you". 

you are right I don't know why I thought she said Erin opps. either way neither Erin or Alyssa will be so neat if they continue on the way they are.