Fundies and special-needs kids

[AnnoDomini]

What's the consensus on fundies' ideas on children with special needs? I can't recall coming across any (other than my own family) who had that to deal with, and wondering if my parents are normal among fundies when it comes to that. Do fundies think they're more special than the rest of their kids, or a burden/punishment for sins, or what? And how do they deal with the child's needs in context of their beliefs?

[Beeks]

What's the consensus on fundies' ideas on children with special needs? I can't recall coming across any (other than my own family) who had that to deal with, and wondering if my parents are normal among fundies when it comes to that. Do fundies think they're more special than the rest of their kids, or a burden/punishment for sins, or what? And how do they deal with the child's needs in context of their beliefs?

The only thing I've really heard is on Aish.com (fundie Jewish) there have been a few articles about people with developmental disabilities. There was one article about a child with Down Syndrome and how super special this kid was and a greater soul than the rest....I am torn between thinking that's sort of cool and thinking it's really condescending.

I worry very much about children with Autism or learning disabilities who have fundie parents who are into spanking. Seriously, it hurts. I remember Kelly Stamps (fundie lite Christian) blogging about how often she needs to spank her 2yr old and then a few weeks later they find out the kid has hearing loss and needs hearing aids. WTF? I feel so bad that that little girl was labeled as so defiant and getting hit all the time when really she just couldn't HEAR.

[Kitty]

I grew up with ADHD and Tourette Syndrome, not knowing I had either one until I was 10 and 18, respectively. My parents spanked but none of the offenses that warranted it were a sign of either one- though if I fidgeted or showed any tics around assholes like the Pearls I would have had the shit beaten out of me- and had even more tics, since tics ARE aggravated by anxiety and fear. My fidgeting and spaciness and whatnot, to my parents, were just quirks that I'd grow out of or learn to deal with. ADHD is generally different in girls than boys, so I wasn't particularly hyperactive.

I can only imagine that a child disabled in any way would have the living shit beaten out of them because their parents REFUSED to understand that there was something actually wrong with them. Wouldn't take them to a doctor. Wouldn't put them in public schools where other people could identify symptoms of ADHD or something. The ones that would get diagnosed and treated would be the ones born in a hospital who clearly had problems from birth.

My experienced with the disabled in church was that they were always treated very kindly, but I didn't go to a fundie church. I can easily see a lot of fake kindness used to boost an abled person's ego, not to mention some kind of Munchausen-by-proxy where the parents/caregivers would use the poor disabled child as a means to get attention. "Oh, poor me, my child has Down's syndrome" or "I need donations to deal with the burden on my household caused by my child's " What? We've seen it with so many fundie bloggers already, and of course Josie Duggar. I can see them being treated both far better and far worse at home- of course, it would really depend on the parents.

Of course, psychological and neurological conditions like ADHD would never be identified or diagnosed, so it would be "oh, my child has such a rebellious spirit and can't sit still ever!" Never mind worse things like bipolar disorder, which can really make a young child act crazy. In that case, when the kid was old enough they'd be sent to Hephzibah House or one of Gothard's Training Centers.

[Feberin]

I remember Lydia of Purple having a daughter with Down's Syndrome and I remember they said she couldn't wear the hair covering because she couldn't yet be obediant enough to her father.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

Having a special needs child myself, the possibilities of a disabled kid in a super-fundie home scares me to death. Just one example - my son has developed a healthy case of OCD as he's gotten older, so on certain things I run my life and the household around him. It is just the way he organizes/compartmentalizes things in his brain, and when certain things are different, or don't go the way he expects them to, he can have a major meltdown. Its not disobedience, brattiness, ect, its just how his brain works. Its easier for me to bend to his needs and its better for all of us. No big deal most of the time. I could see a child like him in a fundie home not understanding certain rules of conforming, strict obedience, ect. and not doing very well.

[Lillybee]

I was thinking about this. I wonder if the family that adopted Hana and her deaf brother bothered to get him some help. They did beat him when he didn't come when wanted.

I don't think that they allowed for his disability.

[pomology]

Having a special needs child myself, the possibilities of a disabled kid in a super-fundie home scares me to death. Just one example - my son has developed a healthy case of OCD as he's gotten older, so on certain things I run my life and the household around him. It is just the way he organizes/compartmentalizes things in his brain, and when certain things are different, or don't go the way he expects them to, he can have a major meltdown. Its not disobedience, brattiness, ect, its just how his brain works. Its easier for me to bend to his needs and its better for all of us. No big deal most of the time. I could see a child like him in a fundie home not understanding certain rules of conforming, strict obedience, ect. and not doing very well.

Yeah, I agree that a non-neurotypical or special needs kid in a fundie home scares the shit out of me. My brother has pretty severe ADHD and for years had a really hard time functioning even taking a whole slew of medications and only now that he's an adult and not under constant pressure from authority figures is he really flourishing. I shudder to think what would have happened to him in a fundie home.

[FloraDoraDolly]

It seems to me that they have three ways of dealing with special needs kids:

1. "God has blessed us with His very special child." This is for children with very obvious disabilities, such as Down's Syndrome or a severe physical handicap. The parents may indeed feel blessed or they might be implying that *they* are the special ones, not the child.

2. Denial that there's anything wrong with the child. "Yes, Baby Josie is a little bit delayed, but we will pray and pray and God will make sure our miracle baby catches up." Forget about any early intervention programs offered by the public school system. On a more sinister note, denial can also take the form of a special needs child with emotional/behavior issues being labeled rebellious and "in need of extra correction."

3. "The child is evil." This is what we saw with that horrible woman and her poor adopted Haitian children.

[tabitha2]

http://martinpalooza.com/category/paren ... ial-needs/

[YPestis]

I can see fundie parents lovingly tending to a obviously physically handicapped child or one with obvious mental handicap. Some may even martyr themselves doing that.

For children with less obvious disabilities, I can see fundie parents punishing the child for perceived misbehavior. Kids with ADHD or other behavior issues would probably be treated as rebellious children in need of constant discipline.

I see the Duggars as more willing to let their children receive early childhood education for special needs kids. They are in contact with pediatricians and appear to (sometimes) listen to their doc. Families such as the Maxwells I see never going that route. That's the family which advises "look happy even when you're not" as a treatment for depression.

[emmiedahl]

My parents are not fundie, but they won the disability lottery (or maybe lost it?). I have an older brother with cerebral palsy and a younger brother who is severe, rapid cycling bipolar. I am sandwiched between the two in age.

I can see fundies dealing fine with a physical disability, but a mental illness would be a completely different story. My mother is a psychologist and she still had a hard time getting a diagnosis and help. My brother had atrocious behavior at times; he was so defiant and destructive. I don't think it could have been beat out of him even if my parents had been inclined to try. He was just out of control until he was old enough to take Lithium (nothing else worked).

[FuManchu]

I'm sure that the vast majority of fundamentalist parents would be just as loving to a disabled child as to a non-disabled one. The problem, I suppose, is that the child may need special care or expensive treatment that the parents may not be prepared for and that may not be allowed for in the wider fundamentalist mindset.

For example, super-fundies like Doug Phillips constantly encourage parents to reject all forms of state assistance, including state disability support. But at the same time, the parents that pay attention to him will only have one income coming in because only the husband will work (and even the husband will have restrictions on the job he can do). End result - the parents may struggle financially, or they may simply have to throw themselves on the mercy of their church - and there's nothing Doug likes more than having people completely dependent on him.

The other problem in patriarchy-heavy circles is that no matter the problems of the child they are still a child, and therefore seen as the mother's job to take care of. The father will be encouraged not to undermine patriarchy by changing his routine to help out with the child, while the mother's burden increases hugely. Worst of all, I think, is that patriarchy can't admit that it has any problems, so if the mother can't cope on her own she is often deliberately discouraged from telling people so. All the toys and books at Vision Forum are specifically targeted at creating the assumption of family perfection, after all.

[maybeizfundie]

Here is one site I've seen mentioned in fundie circles. Haven't dug into it thoroughly though. www.nathhan.com/

I think it must vary. The families that I know personally with special needs children are very loving and doing their absolute best with those children, including getting them services outside the home/community if that's what the child needs.

One of my friends belongs to a small anabaptist group, and there are two adults with Down's Syndrome in the membership--and yes they were allowed membership even though both had the more severe developmental disabilities that can come with DS. They are also treated as full and valuable members, including participating in congregational votes/decisions. My friend has an adopted child with some developmental issues, and some behaviors that became quite scary, so they have been seeking outside help as well. They want to parent that child as best they can, keep him safe, keep their other children safe, and help him grow up into a functional and hopefully happy adult.

Other families that I know have children with autism and have put those children in school while homeschooling the rest, because they feel that the special education programs serve those children better than they could, as much as they would rather have them at home.

I've not experienced personally anyone who has the negative attitudes listed here.

[bananacat]

I can see fundie parents being loving of their special-needs kid, but not really giving them the resources they need. For example, some kids with Down Syndrome will just never be able to live independently as adults (although plenty of them do). But they can still learn a lot of skills that will make their quality of life better. I think fundie parents would just accept that this child will always be dependent on family and not bother to get them special education and treatments, treating them more like a pet. A lot of schools and programs for special needs kids are provided by the government and even the local school district, so the parents would deny their kids those chances just because of that. They also wouldn't want their kid to be away from family, or to spend so much time around other people who might have differing views.

I've known kids with autism and Down Syndrome, and they have all thrived so much from the special programs that have been offered to them. Some of them will eventually reach an end to their progress, but they should all be given the chance to reach their full potential. But fundies think that all those kids need is love, Jesus, and prayer. In such large families, there will always be somebody to care for the physical needs of the child all the way through adulthood, but they neglect the educational and emotional needs just as much as they do with their other children. They need more than just love, but they'll never get it.

[Beeks]

I have to get up on my soap box for a second as a mom of a child with some special needs: A lot of people with developmental disabilities (and their families) prefer that we use "people first" language. Meaning instead of saying "a special needs kid" or "a deaf boy" etc, we say "a child with special needs" or "a boy who is deaf." It probably seems like a small thing but it does make a difference to a lot of us!

Ok that's all, stepping down.

ETA: this is something I'm still working on myself, too. It's a newer concept to me but I do like it.

[Lala]

Well, I had to register and come out of lurkdom to answer this question...so HI!

Anyway, I was raised fundi-lite, I guess you could say. My parents are very loyal gothardites, but they pick and choose what they want to follow. I was raised in a very strict, legalistic Baptist church, but we could wear pants at home and makeup.

My brother, Ben, has severe learning disabilities, a really bad speech impediment, and ADHD/ADD. He also had a very bad case of lead poisoning, which went undetected for a long time and affected his behavior. My parents spanked the hell out of him ALL THE TIME. My dad worked at a prison and he was terrified that my brother would end up there (supposedly because of his disability), so they would spank him for every little thing. (Well, they did with me and my other brother too, but it seemed so much worse with Ben). I remember one time, he was so hyper at night, that he would not go to sleep and kept getting out of bed. So, every time he got out, my mom would spank...with a spoon on bare skin. I am not exaggerating when I say he must've gotten up 9 or 10 times before my mom "broke" him. It never occurred to her that maybe spanking wasn't working! :roll: This was a common thing, yet she refused to take him to a doctor, a psychologist, or give him medication. He was 14 years old before they figured out that he had lead poisoning and that's maybe one of the reasons why he acted the way he did.

As far as church goes, the people there were NOT understanding and patient with him at all. To them he was a nuisance and a brat. They dreaded it when he came into the room and told that to his face. Any time there was an altar call, my brother would go forward to get saved (pretty much every week) and they would get angry and send him back to sit down. Regardless, of your views on salvation-invitations, this is a pretty crappy way to treat a kid, especially if your whole goal is win people to the Lord.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

I guess my family *might* be fundy-lite, but it's hard to tell whether it is born out of spiritual revivalism or if it came from my dad's borderline personality disorder and his narccisistic personality tendencies, where he was seen as the head of the family in a strict sense--patriarchical I guess could be the word. He liked to control us in any case.

Anyway, I was a stubborn child and no doubt got spanked or punished until my parents found out I was deaf at the age of 2. I was really disobedient, according to my parents, but at least they acknowledged why, after my diagnosis.

I was still stubborn (my stubborness I take as a source of pride, actually) as a kid even after hearing aids, and all I would have to do is close my eyes and I wouldn't have to "listen' to my parents because so much of my understanding came from lipreading. So my dad fixed that by putting me on top of the fridge really close to the edge so I was forced to open my eyes, from the fear of falling down. When I did, he told me never to close my eyes again when he was yelling at me. I only remember that happening once or twice.

I did get into a lot of trouble if I didn't come when dad called so he could yell at me or tell me to do something, even though I couldn't hear him yelling halfway across the house . He got angry if I had to ask him to repeat something several times, and he would be all weird and would raise his voice and yell whatever it was at me, which REALLY doesn't help me understand it any better. When my brother and I started driving in late hs and early college, my parents required us to call when we got to wherever it was, even if it was a mile away, and call when we're ready to get home. It was a way to keep control of us, I think. I would have incredible difficulty understanding my dad on the phone, and he took it personally like I was faking not hearing him because I didn't want to talk to him because I hated him. Of course that accusation hurt a lot when I was still drinking the koolaid and trying desperately to earn his love. So, after that he wouldn't talk to me for a few days--might have been a week. he couldn't f**king understand that I simply have a hard time hearing male voices on the phone!! :doh:

one of my younger brothers also has hearing loss and wears hearing aids. He was at boy scouts meeting, and it was really noisy there. So, my brother just observed and didn't really want to talk to people very much because he was afraid of sounding stupid just for mis-hearing something. It's an awkward feeling I know all too well. "So, how are you liking this activity?" "I like watermelon." So, when people tried to talk to him, he listened, and would smile and try to defer to my dad for him to answer instead, simply because my brother couldn't hear.

After the meeting my dad yelled and yelled and raged at him and spanked him and grounded him for a couple of weeks for acting like a "spoiled brat" at the meeting, and for making my dad look bad to all the other homeschoolers. I tried to stand up for my brother and reason with my dad, reminding him that he can't hear, and I've done the same thing, but my dad still considered him a spoiled brat, and he got mad at me, too.

So....yes. I would imagine fundie or fundy-lite families having similar stories, where the parents simply don't account for the disability when the child behaves in a way that makes them look like they're misbehaving.

Makes me mad. I feel like punching my dad right now... :evil:

[liltwinstar]

I think it might depend on the disability the child had. For example, down's syndrome is a pretty widely-recognized condition. It's (usually) immediately obvious when someone has down's syndrome, and most people have at least some clue as to how that can affect behavior, cognition, etc. If a child had a physical disability, such as a missing arm or something like cystic fibrosis, I would imagine that, too, would be somewhat easier to deal with.

I think it would be worse if someone had an invisible disability that manifested as "poor" or "inappropriate" behavior, such as ADD/ADHD, Autism, stuff like that. Because fundie parents are so invested in having children with "perfect" behavior, it could come as a real ego blow to have a kid who literally can't behave perfectly.

I think most of the fundie families are at least somewhat ok with seeking treatment for physical problems. I realize there are some crazies out there, but it seems the majority of families would seek medical treatment for physical disabilities/conditions (such as getting a child medicine for a chronic condition, getting a child fitted for a prosthetic arm, that sort of thing). Getting a child medicine for ADD/ADHD, or for any other type of mental disability, might be a different issue though. Even in mainstream society, there is the misconception that ritalin is handed out like candy and that children are medicated so they behave, etc etc - and it seems that idea is more rampant in fundie society.

[AnnoDomini]

One of my sisters has Downs, and while I'm still not sure where on the fundy/not fundy spectrum my family lies, I do worry about my sister getting the treatment she may need. My parents don't have moral problems with 'getting help' as far as I know (three of the family are on medication for depression) but as far as I know they've done nothing in terms of getting her help for years. She used to have a physical therapist come once or twice a week 7 years ago, but my mother had the therapist stop coming because the sessions just seemed like playing and she didn't see any improvement in my sister. My sister is almost 11 and she's tiny, a little smaller than our 6 year old, and she doesn't walk. I think her legs could handle it (she loves to 'stand up' with our help) but she doesn't know how to use her legs by herself, and she stands on her feet funny. She needs a special hard contraption on her legs to put her feet in the right position and we haven't had that contraption in years. When we tried to use it, my mother says my sister hated it, it was like torture to her. And my parents can't think of a way to help her learn to walk aside from the torture-things and my mother can't stand those things. As far as I know, the situation with my sister walking has been at a complete standstill for I don't know how many years because my mother isn't emotionally up to thinking about it and my father can't think of anything.

My sister doesn't go to the doctor, she's not enrolled in any programs (we do show her educational videos though) and isn't in any therapy.

[persuaded]

I guess my family *might* be fundy-lite, but it's hard to tell whether it is born out of spiritual revivalism or if it came from my dad's borderline personality disorder and his narccisistic personality tendencies, where he was seen as the head of the family in a strict sense--patriarchical I guess could be the word. He liked to control us in any case.

Anyway, I was a stubborn child and no doubt got spanked or punished until my parents found out I was deaf at the age of 2. I was really disobedient, according to my parents, but at least they acknowledged why, after my diagnosis.

I was still stubborn (my stubborness I take as a source of pride, actually) as a kid even after hearing aids, and all I would have to do is close my eyes and I wouldn't have to "listen' to my parents because so much of my understanding came from lipreading. So my dad fixed that by putting me on top of the fridge really close to the edge so I was forced to open my eyes, from the fear of falling down. When I did, he told me never to close my eyes again when he was yelling at me. I only remember that happening once or twice.

I did get into a lot of trouble if I didn't come when dad called so he could yell at me or tell me to do something, even though I couldn't hear him yelling halfway across the house . He got angry if I had to ask him to repeat something several times, and he would be all weird and would raise his voice and yell whatever it was at me, which REALLY doesn't help me understand it any better. When my brother and I started driving in late hs and early college, my parents required us to call when we got to wherever it was, even if it was a mile away, and call when we're ready to get home. It was a way to keep control of us, I think. I would have incredible difficulty understanding my dad on the phone, and he took it personally like I was faking not hearing him because I didn't want to talk to him because I hated him. Of course that accusation hurt a lot when I was still drinking the koolaid and trying desperately to earn his love. So, after that he wouldn't talk to me for a few days--might have been a week. he couldn't f**king understand that I simply have a hard time hearing male voices on the phone!! :doh:

one of my younger brothers also has hearing loss and wears hearing aids. He was at boy scouts meeting, and it was really noisy there. So, my brother just observed and didn't really want to talk to people very much because he was afraid of sounding stupid just for mis-hearing something. It's an awkward feeling I know all too well. "So, how are you liking this activity?" "I like watermelon." So, when people tried to talk to him, he listened, and would smile and try to defer to my dad for him to answer instead, simply because my brother couldn't hear.

After the meeting my dad yelled and yelled and raged at him and spanked him and grounded him for a couple of weeks for acting like a "spoiled brat" at the meeting, and for making my dad look bad to all the other homeschoolers. I tried to stand up for my brother and reason with my dad, reminding him that he can't hear, and I've done the same thing, but my dad still considered him a spoiled brat, and he got mad at me, too.

So....yes. I would imagine fundie or fundy-lite families having similar stories, where the parents simply don't account for the disability when the child behaves in a way that makes them look like they're misbehaving.

Makes me mad. I feel like punching my dad right now... :evil:

Oh my Lord..... I'm just in tears after reading this...

As someone with a significant hearing loss I know exactly exactly what you mean about not understanding voices on the phone, about being heavily dependent on lip reading, about difficulties understanding what exactly is being said much of the time and about coping mechanisms and strategies (and I could feel my anxiety level rising as you described the various situations you and your brother had.) However, as someone who was hearing all of my life and suffered my hearing loss in adulthood, I can't even begin to imagine the fear and powerlessness and confusion as you went through all of that as small children. I wish I could just go back and give little CanticleoftheTurning a hug... and your little brother too. I'm so sorry that you had to go through all of that.....♥

[FundiesInMyFamily]

My sister doesn't go to the doctor, she's not enrolled in any programs (we do show her educational videos though) and isn't in any therapy.

This is a big part of what worries me. The ebil top 10 in the nation Children's hospital hooked me up with the even more ebil school system, and I had a social worker as soon as he was born to help guide me through all of the challenges. He was enrolled in early intervention programs at age 2 and even then I had a teacher coming to my house twice a week to work with him. He's had physical and occupational therapy also through the school system since the age of 2; and now he goes to an all special needs public school where there's a staff social worker, psychologist, RN, and he gets physical therapy, occupational therapy, and "activities of daily living" therapy several times a week.

For families that don't trust the government or even less the school systems, these kids could miss out on these much needed therapies and early interventions. My son is 16 now and I know there's no way I could have done all of this, especially on my own, without the army of professionals and support I have.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

Oh my Lord..... I'm just in tears after reading this...

As someone with a significant hearing loss I know exactly exactly what you mean about not understanding voices on the phone, about being heavily dependent on lip reading, about difficulties understanding what exactly is being said much of the time and about coping mechanisms and strategies (and I could feel my anxiety level rising as you described the various situations you and your brother had.) However, as someone who was hearing all of my life and suffered my hearing loss in adulthood, I can't even begin to imagine the fear and powerlessness and confusion as you went through all of that as small children. I wish I could just go back and give little CanticleoftheTurning a hug... and your little brother too. I'm so sorry that you had to go through all of that.....♥

Awwww, how sweet of you <3 I always thought it was par for the course, until my HOH little brother was born when I was about 11, and then I started realizing how wrong it was. Fortunately, he's "only" moderately deaf so hopefully that will help him out...I also tried (secretly) telling him it's not his fault, giving him tips, and hugging him when my dad was like that toward him. So, I really hope he'll be okay. He's 12, now, and still homeschooled. (As for me, I'm profoundly deaf, have a HA and a CI. )

And wow, that hearing loss must have been tough for you as an adult. <3

[EmmieJ]

I remember Lydia of Purple having a daughter with Down's Syndrome and I remember they said she couldn't wear the hair covering because she couldn't yet be obediant enough to her father.

This makes me feel really sad (and really angry at "Lydia" who I otherwise know nothing about). I have a sister with Down's Syndrome, and have met many others who have Down's Syndrome, and most of them are extremely easy going, gentle, and eager to please. I am forever thankful my sister was born into our family and not into another family where she wouldn't have been treated with 100% loving kindness. Perhaps this Lydia's daughter isn't capable of doing certain things, or understanding certain concepts, due to her genetic condition. I don't know if hell or purgatory exist; but for parents who don't understand their children's special needs and thereby mistreat them, I sincerely hope there is some sort of karmic balancing that occurs.

[Guest Anonymous]

One of my sisters has Downs, and while I'm still not sure where on the fundy/not fundy spectrum my family lies, I do worry about my sister getting the treatment she may need. My parents don't have moral problems with 'getting help' as far as I know (three of the family are on medication for depression) but as far as I know they've done nothing in terms of getting her help for years. She used to have a physical therapist come once or twice a week 7 years ago, but my mother had the therapist stop coming because the sessions just seemed like playing and she didn't see any improvement in my sister. My sister is almost 11 and she's tiny, a little smaller than our 6 year old, and she doesn't walk. I think her legs could handle it (she loves to 'stand up' with our help) but she doesn't know how to use her legs by herself, and she stands on her feet funny. She needs a special hard contraption on her legs to put her feet in the right position and we haven't had that contraption in years. When we tried to use it, my mother says my sister hated it, it was like torture to her. And my parents can't think of a way to help her learn to walk aside from the torture-things and my mother can't stand those things. As far as I know, the situation with my sister walking has been at a complete standstill for I don't know how many years because my mother isn't emotionally up to thinking about it and my father can't think of anything.

My sister doesn't go to the doctor, she's not enrolled in any programs (we do show her educational videos though) and isn't in any therapy.

This is concerning to me, and you seem to be concerned also. Public schools are required to provide education to all kids, and some of them are really good at it. Would your parents be open to enrolling her so that she could have access to free therapy and programs?

I don't know anything about the walking situation, but it doesn't sound good. If the braces are causing your sister pain maybe someone could suggest alternatives if she was in school?

[EmmieJ]

My sister is almost 11 and she's tiny, a little smaller than our 6 year old, and she doesn't walk. I think her legs could handle it (she loves to 'stand up' with our help) but she doesn't know how to use her legs by herself, and she stands on her feet funny.

This sounds like more than Down's Syndrome. I don't really understand the concept of simply giving up where a child is concerned.