Turpins 3: 2 Monsters, 13 Victims (WARNING abuse and torture)

[Carol]

I find $183,000.00 an extraordinarily small amount of donations for this family, especially since this is international news.  It's hard for me to believe it isn't closer to the millions of dollars by now.  Didn't the Christian bakers get over $700,000.00?  

I wonder how fundies react to this vs. the christian bakers gofundme account?  Clearly they're not rushing to donate.  Could it be they don't want to draw attention to how fucked up fundamentalism is?  Oh wait...of course...homosexuality is severely more serious than 13 starving, tortured children!  

[Aimtomisbehave]

7 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I had been wondering how all the money that is being collected for the Turpin off-spring is going to be handled/used, so I was glad to find this:

Erin Phillips is the foundation executive director for the Riverside University Health System.  The article, from KESQ tv and news in Palm Springs, CA states that as of last Thursday the total collected by various means was $183,000.  More is expected both through donations and fundraisers.   

Another bit of “news” is that there is an online petition to keep the children together and “outside of foster care.”  See “Demand No Foster Care”.

The petition demands that the State of California “think outside the box” and find a solution that will keep the 13 children together. It has only a handful of signatures and I suspect it will go nowhere.

But I wonder, other than creating a special group home for the Turpins with a couple of counsellors/ guardians, what could be done to keep them together?   It is clear that at this point the older kids are in no position to take responsibility for the minors.

 

I think they need to take it slow and make careful decisions about whether or not the children stay together. I know the first reaction is to want to keep them together but having previously worked in Children's Services sometimes children from abusive homes were involved with being coerced into doing abusive acts on each other and it is safer for them to not be together in those instances. Some of the children may be need to be given their own space to heal away from their siblings. Although I hope that that is not true and they are able to be a family and  a support for each other -no one else is going to fully understand what they went through other than the other siblings.

[Curious]

One article I read said the kids were kept in small groups in locked rooms. I hope that is taken into consideration, as I imagine those kids are more bonded to each other.  For some reason I figured they were kept in one bigger room (like a master bedroom or den).  

[EmCatlyn]

42 minutes ago, Aimtomisbehave said:

I think they need to take it slow and make careful decisions about whether or not the children stay together. 

I agree.  But a lot of people (here and elsewhere) have been concerned because, according to news reports, the kids had asked to stay together.  My take is that what really will matter to them is to be able to see each other frequently and know their siblings are all right.  Like @Curious I hope that prior bonds and friendships among the younger kids were taken into account when sorting them into two foster homes.

As for thevonline petition, it doesn’t seem realistic to me, but if, later on, some or all of the Turpin “kids” want to stay together, and they need ongoing help,  then I hope @lilith  is right that by combining the donated money with whatever assets are taken from the parents, some kind of “made to order” group home would be possible. 

Regarding @Carol‘s comment about how there ought to be more money collected, my guess is that the fund raising has only begun. I believe initially the authorities had to warn about Go Fund Me accounts that might not give the money to the kids.  But also, people are more likely to give more when they know what the money is needed for, and we really don’t know yet what the kids will need and how much the state will provide.

 

 

 

[Carol]

25 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

Regarding @Carol‘s comment about how there ought to be more money collected, my guess is that the fund raising has only begun. I believe initially the authorities had to warn about Go Fund Me accounts that might not give the money to the kids.  But also, people are more likely to give more when they know what the money is needed for, and we really don’t know yet what the kids will need and how much the state will provide.

 

 

 

I have a different take.  I believe the donations will continue to trickle in or continue in fits and starts, but I don't see the donations having big increases.  This story is two weeks old.  The legs it had and the horror it evoked have been lessened because the state stepped in and began caring for the children.  They are considered "safe" now and while I think the public is still interested in the outcome, I think the initial response to monetarily help this family is largely over. 

[Dandruff]

Maybe when the word went out that the kids had gotten enough stuff but still needed money, people decided to not send money because they had enough stuff.

[imokit]

Made to order group home may be fine for the adults and older children but it could be detrimental to the toddler.

The toddler needs a stable adult caregiver to bond with and for consistency.  A rotating group of caregivers  would prevent her bonding.  The only way it could possibly work for her is if one of the older siblings is well enough to parent her with support, that way the parental bond would be with a stable constant figure.

Likewise the younger children, need someone who's there and bonded with to go to their problems and to give kind but consistent boundaries.

Plus from an attention point of view, there are 13 children with widely different physical and emotional needs who will all need a lot of care.  Add in complicated sibling dynamics, not all of which are likely healthy and which need monitoring,

Separating them may be necessary and shouldn't automatically be opposed by people who aren't involved with situation and haven't assessed the needs and dynamics of the siblings.

 

 

[Mcnapple]

On 1/24/2018 at 11:26 PM, EmCatlyn said:

 

This earlier story had him completing the class (not dropping out) which concurs with the transcript that some TV station got hold of.   

Either or both  of these sources could be “remembering creatively.”  Or possibly the Turpin kid dropped out of one class and then took the class with the other girl.  

According to his transcript, he took 3 different guitar classes (Guitar 1, Guitar 2, Guitar Ensemble), so probably both sources are telling a true story, but they are talking about a different class.

I agree, the relatives crawling out of the woodwork do not seem like they would be good placements. Especially the uncle who likes 21 day fasts. Incidentally....I was reading that during biblical times, "fasting" meant a person only drank juice, not that they didn't take in any calories at all. Big difference from how people promote fasting today.

The good news/bad news is, regardless of where these poor children end up, it will be better than what they came from. What they went through was so horrific....even a less than ideal placement will seem like paradise in comparison.

[Yogi]

 This may be an unpopular opinion but I am not yet 100% convinced that all of these kids are bonded together the way we might think they are. Generally, people assume that when a group has undergone something like this they will have a strong bond. And that may be the case with these kids. But it also may not be. These kids have been in survival mode for years and sometimes when people are in survival mode they put their survival above others and there could’ve been situations where some children did things to keep themselves safe in the moment that may have caused worse abuse to be heaped  on others. And that can cause animosity resentment and even hatred among the siblings. 

 Rather than making a blanket statement that all the kids should automatically stay together, I hope that they are all undergoing intensive therapy to understand what happened to them, repair any bonds between them may have been broken, address any guilt that they might have, including survivors guilt, and understand that everyone was just doing their best to survive. Maybe after that, if it is in their best interest, they can be placed together. 

[SoGladIWasCofE]

People in horrifying situations often have to prioritize themselves to survive. People in pain lash out - often at weaker people around them. I'd honestly be shocked if everything was great between all the siblings.

I mean "I didn't do it, she did it" is normal sibling behaviour, which is likely worsened by the terror of awful punishment. So you probably have at least a few kids who got others chained up.

Imo it's probably better for them to be split up in the long run. Gives them some space, allows particularly close ones to stay together.

It's likely possible for them to all meet up at least once a week, if not every day. It's also now pretty cheap to give them all phones with Skype. Then they can talk to each other whenever they want.

[FiddleDD]

Look at the Ariel Castro kibdnappings. Michelle Knight (now Lily Rose) couldn’t stand Amanda Berry. She openly admitted in her book that she would intentionally do things to annoy her. And now neither girls have anything to do with her, despite her having been chained up with Gina most of the time and being the one who delivered (and saved) Amanda’s baby. 

 

I think too about some kind of Stockholm syndrome. From what I’ve read, children from abusive households often still love their parents and try to protect them. I’ve wondered if keeping them apart might also benefit the case, as it would prevent some siblings from encouraging others to not speak freely about certain things. 

Together or separate, I just want these kids to get the therapy and love they need. 

[Sideways]

Natascha Kampusch, who was kidnapped and held hostage for eight years, thinks the Turpin children should be able to have contact with their parents while they are in prison.  

In Natascha's case, her abuse was meted out by a stranger who beat and sexually abused her.  She felt it was important to face her monster.  In the Turpin children's case, I don't think that this would be therapeutically beneficial to the children, particularly the younger ones, due to the parents' potential for manipulating them, causing confusion,  second thoughts and guilt.  

In Kampusch's case she was an adult when she escaped her abuser; it was clearer cut as her abuser was not a parent, and she was the only captive.  What are your thoughts on this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/natascha-kampusch-kidnapped-turpin-children-must-visit-parents/

[brokenminded]

If any of them express real interest in seeing their parents then I don't think they should be stopped. I don't think they should be encouraged to visit though. It should be their own choice and not until they are well on the road to health and recovery. 

[Yogi]

5 minutes ago, Sideways said:

Natascha Kampusch, who was kidnapped and held hostage for eight years, thinks the Turpin children should be able to have contact with their parents while they are in prison.  

In Natascha's case, her abuse was meted out by a stranger who beat and sexually abused her.  She felt it was important to face her monster.  In the Turpin children's case, I don't think that this would be therapeutically beneficial to the children, particularly the younger ones, due to the parents' potential for manipulating them, causing confusion,  second thoughts and guilt.  

In Kampusch's case she was an adult when she escaped her abuser; it was clearer cut as her abuser was not a parent, and she was the only captive.  What are your thoughts on this?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/natascha-kampusch-kidnapped-turpin-children-must-visit-parents/

 This is very interesting, however, it’s my understanding that Natasha still lives in the house that she was held captive in and continues to obsessively  clean it every day as she did when she was kidnapped. The house was bequeathed to her and she has been unable to leave it. She seems to have some very serious issues, as anyone would in her situation, but I’m not 100% sure that she is qualified to be giving advice . 

 Yes, she endured something marginally similar but she’s not a mental health professional and possibly does not have the distance to be giving good advice in the situation. 

I should say that I only know what I know about her situation from a few articles and a documentary that I saw recently.

[Sideways]

7 minutes ago, brokenminded said:

If any of them express real interest in seeing their parents then I don't think they should be stopped. I don't think they should be encouraged to visit though. It should be their own choice and not until they are well on the road to health and recovery. 

The order for no contact is for 3 years.  During that time the Turpin Monsters' case will be tried and decided, they will certainly go to prison, and perhaps there will be an appeal process.  

Following the expiration of the no contact order, any of the adult children, if they are of sound mental capacity, would have the right to see the parents.   I doubt the minor children would be accorded contact.

I am not sure how a victim facing his/her abuser provides "closure"... although some victims feel a need to confront the perpetrator.  Asking "why" the abuser committed such heinous acts almost never yields answers, and uually the abuser has no remorse.  

[feministxtian]

I read somewhere (I wish I could remember where) that the children would be "rotated" through different rooms and be locked up with different siblings, so it was never one steady group that stayed confined together. I'm assuming that by rotating the sibling groups, one group would not form much of a tight bond against the parents. Divide and conquer. 

I think a lot is going to come out during the trial and it's going to be horrifying. I just hope and pray these kids can find some sort of health, mentally, physically and emotionally in the future.

[ladyicantxplain]

15 hours ago, Carol said:

I find $183,000.00 an extraordinarily small amount of donations for this family, especially since this is international news.  It's hard for me to believe it isn't closer to the millions of dollars by now.  Didn't the Christian bakers get over $700,000.00?  

I wonder how fundies react to this vs. the christian bakers gofundme account?  Clearly they're not rushing to donate.  Could it be they don't want to draw attention to how fucked up fundamentalism is?  Oh wait...of course...homosexuality is severely more serious than 13 starving, tortured children!  

I agree, this is NOT  a lot of money in donations.  I also agree that it is a result, at least in part, of fundies' mindsets:  many fundies I know IRL are stuck on this being a conspiracy to shut down CA homeschooling - a "false flag" political and media stunt.  They seriously think there was no abuse and all of this is fabricated in order that the US become as Germany and legally prohibit homeschooling.  I admit, I looked at that one photo of the family in 2015 in all the red shirts and thought, "Well, two years ago they looked semi-normal for this type of family", but I also know how easy it is to hide abuse of all kinds.  The fundie response to this is disgusting as a whole.

[Flossie]

Dr. Phil has managed to get some people together to make his bucks from this sad affair:

"Inside what some are calling the “California House of Horrors” where police say 13 children were starved, chained up and abused by their own parents.

Family, former neighbors and childhood friends speak out on the secrets that allegedly went on behind closed doors. Plus, kidnap survivor Michelle Knight sends a message to the children."

https://www.drphil.com/shows/inside-the-california-house-of-horrors-13-children-allegedly-shackled-starved-and-abused/

The show airs tomorrow, but I won't watch.  I don't believe that he has any real concern for the kids, and would only help them if it directly benefited himself.

[luv2laugh]

Some posters here adamantly told me not to donate to the Turpins but to instead donate locally. I assume that logic of thinking is why the Turpin children haven’t received much money.

[Bad Wolf]

People donated money to the kids here. It was overseen by someone in the sheriff's department. A foster parent or relative would not have access to the money. They could request money if the kids needed something like a computer or money for camp, etc.  I'm sure something similar will be set up for the Turpins. As far as school, they will probably have in home teachers from the school system and be gradually introduced to regular school as they become healthier.

[Escadora]

29 minutes ago, luv2laugh said:

Some posters here adamantly told me not to donate to the Turpins but to instead donate locally. I assume that logic of thinking is why the Turpin children haven’t received much money.

I think that's a rather passive aggressive comment to make considering that all the posters who were encouraging local donations were trying to do is remind other people that there are children in need everywhere. You didn't exactly come across as believing that your donations would be better accepted locally so we can only assume that you did in fact donate to the Turpin family (unless you didn't donate at all, which is also totally fine - not everyone has money to spare). Especially bearing in mind that people who were trying to direct donations to another place were mostly saying that the Turpins had enough things and to donate their donated items elsewhere. 

What's happened to these children is awful, sure, but what good comes of trying to shame people who are only trying to help someone who might not have a nationwide (heck, even worldwide) exposure to their situation? Unless it makes you feel better or somehow vindicated to try and insinuate that you were right all along? 

idk, cases like this tend to bring out the petty in people. Possibly I'm over-reacting. I just feel like people are doing the best they can with what they have and that unless you're performing or perpetuating abuse, then you shouldn't feel bad for doing what you can to help, even if others expect you to do more/ do differently.

[feministxtian]

And another case of horrific neglect

https://nypost.com/2018/01/27/parents-allegedly-raised-kids-in-apartment-smeared-with-feces/

[ladyicantxplain]

@feministxtian, that is appaling!  Look at the excrement all over the walls!  HOW on God's green earth does this kind of thing go unnoticed if this family had been seen by family services in the past?  The woman is a NURSE, for the love of all things holy.  Not who I would ever want being a caregiver to me in ICU, or on a Pediatric floor!  Mercy of heaven, this makes me furious.  

[Granwych]

13 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

@feministxtian, that is appaling!  Look at the excrement all over the walls!  HOW on God's green earth does this kind of thing go unnoticed if this family had been seen by family services in the past?  The woman is a NURSE, for the love of all things holy.  Not who I would ever want being a caregiver to me in ICU, or on a Pediatric floor!  Mercy of heaven, this makes me furious.  

Kate Gosselin was a nurse.  Granted, she was an obsessive cleaner, but I never saw one ounce of compassion in her for her own kids, let alone strangers.

[feministxtian]

26 minutes ago, ladyicantxplain said:

@feministxtian, that is appaling!  Look at the excrement all over the walls!  HOW on God's green earth does this kind of thing go unnoticed if this family had been seen by family services in the past?  The woman is a NURSE, for the love of all things holy.  Not who I would ever want being a caregiver to me in ICU, or on a Pediatric floor!  Mercy of heaven, this makes me furious.  

I'd never have won mother of the year by any stretch of the imagination...but damn...I did clean the house, cook meals, wash dishes...ok...so maybe the toilets weren't scrubbed as often as they should have...and the kids had PB&J for lunch 5 days a week, but damn...