Zoey Joy Webster Is Now Here (update)

[Irene]

4 minutes ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

it's not a Bates thing it's a popular new born picture type right now just type new born pictures into google and you'll see a lot of that type of thing. 

Thats a bad trend. Not good for the kids.

[Ivycoveredtower]

1 minute ago, Irene said:

Thats a bad trend. Not good for the kids.

At least they didn't put her in a toy dump truck Phillip Waller style. 

[pandora]

11 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I think I said it here before- I am one of the people who believe they might be looking into a form of nfp for more “guided” pregnancies. Using it myself for years I know how easy it can be to get pregnant accidentally. Even with a regular cycle there are so many possibilities why one ovulation is earlier (or later) than it normally is  (stress, hormones, illness, lifestyle changes...) that I would never trust nfp alone to make sure I don’t get pregnant. There are ways to narrow the window down to about 24-72h I think? But you will have to check several parameters and have some experience in what ranges your body works to be sure. People saying: oh, but my cycle is perfectly regular are playing with fire in my eyes. You only will ever know afterwards if it has been regular again. 

That said, I am a big fan of contraception in general and of nfp especially.

I cannot see Fundies like the Duggars and Bates be ok with more contraception than abstinence. Condoms would be big stretch for them in my eyes. And they probably would never tell that they indeed try to not get pregnant on purpose.

With the Webster’s it will be interesting to watch when the next addition comes. And it will come. Even if they have a bit of a break we will never know for sure why, if they don’t tell us. But I think I would believe it is down to some sort of planning because that is what I wish them: to follow what feels good for them and not what others tell them to do.

Thanks for sharing your experience, how interesting! I haven't used nfp but have been following with interest all the new apps with tech that are being used (hormonal bc is not always my favorite thing but I'm working my first job out of college and a pregnancy would NOT work for me and my bf right now, so hormonal bc it is). My understanding is that what makes some of the new aids to nfp pretty effective (like Daysy) is they aren't relying completely on the previous pattern, but using a temp reading every morning to help predict a change. Still possible to slip up, but way less likely.

I agree with you that foundationally fundie families don't look on any contraception happily, even if it is nonhormonal, I've just never quite understood it. They think birth control pills are an abortifacient, and they're pro-life, so I get that. But the "taking as many as God gives" thing to me is completely compatible with other forms of bc. If someone were using a barrier method and it failed, so they had a baby, I'd think that would show them being open to as many as God gives. This is part of why Alyssa and John are good candidates for using nonhormonal bc if they want to avoid pregnancy- it wouldn't completely throw off their life if it failed. I know this is foundationally not how fundies interpret being open to God's plan, just saying I see how it can be reasoned around.

[Seculardaisy]

2 hours ago, Irene said:

Thats a bad trend. Not good for the kids.

It wouldn’t really harm them if it’s just for a quick photo. Unless they’re leaving the baby unattended or something. 

6 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I would be so annoyed if I just had a baby and kept getting visitors on top of it. 

About the room, did they make poor Josie move back into the Girls' dorm after Alyssa got married because no way they'd let a child have their own room?

It sucks for the kids that their parents had more kids than a house can have bedrooms, but I kind of understand why they wouldn’t want only one kid to have their own room. I wouldn’t want to hear my kids whining about one kid having their own room, all the time either.

That said - I feel for these fundie kids who as teens/early adults are sharing bedrooms with toddlers and children.

[candygirl200413]

I laughed sadly way too hard at that poor photo with Phillip Waller, and sad that his parents thought it'd be a good photo. 

[TatiFish9]

4 hours ago, Seculardaisy said:

[···]

That said - I feel for these fundie kids who as teens/early adults are sharing bedrooms with toddlers and children.

For the life of me, I can not understand how these older kids do it.

I remember Michelle saying the children choose this share -a- room set up, but I have a feeling that is not entirely accurate. Having a mix of ages in one room increases the likelihood of accountability...or exploitation of the vulnerable. In this kind of environment, I don't like it at all. I wish they would stop it.

 

[TeaELSee]

8 hours ago, Ivycoveredtower said:

At least they didn't put her in a toy dump truck Phillip Waller style. 

Is this real or photoshopped?

[formergothardite]

That is very real. The Pecan Thief not only took the picture, but put it on the blog. 

[TatiFish9]

Alyssa says if she has another girl she is done. Looks like they're trying for a boy. I know she and Jon originally said 6 kids but maybe they'll stop at four. That's a pretty normal-sized family. Alyssa made it clear that they are absolutely not have 19 kids.

[singsingsing]

It seems like every time Alyssa has a baby, she makes all kinds of comments that lead people to believe they must be engaging in family planning... and then there's another "oops" pregnancy a few months later. If they are using NFP, they either need to be a lot stricter or add/switch to another form of birth control. As things currently stand, I don't take anything Alyssa says about family planning seriously at all. 

[Nikedagain?]

10 hours ago, melon said:

Maybe the boys would rather visit Alyssa and John,rather than Michael and Brandon because,maybe Alyssa isn't so strict?

Making them get up at a certain time,and insisting they eat what she serves whether they like it or not.Or maybe it's just Florida.

I can't imagine having teen brothers visiting just after having a new baby,though.Having to cook for them,possibly entertain them.Who knows maybe they help with Allie and Lexi...somewhat.

Well and also there's the whole Brandon is kind of a bitch thing. When the boys went to visit them, he couldn't wait for them to leave. He just seems quite persnickety. 

Dump Truck baby ALWAYS makes me guffaw. Y'all don't even know. 

#dumptruckbaby4ever

[TeaELSee]

2 hours ago, formergothardite said:

That is very real. The Pecan Thief not only took the picture, but put it on the blog. 

This is my new favorite thing.

[Melissa1977]

8 hours ago, singsingsing said:

It seems like every time Alyssa has a baby, she makes all kinds of comments that lead people to believe they must be engaging in family planning... and then there's another "oops" pregnancy a few months later. If they are using NFP, they either need to be a lot stricter or add/switch to another form of birth control. As things currently stand, I don't take anything Alyssa says about family planning seriously at all. 

Sorry, it's not true. Alyssa got pregnant of Lexi after Allie's first birthday. It didn't sound as a ooops baby. The only ooops baby has been Zoey, she didn't seem planned and Alyssa wasn't thrilled.

 

[singsingsing]

3 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

Sorry, it's not true. Alyssa got pregnant of Lexi after Allie's first birthday. It didn't sound as a ooops baby. The only ooops baby has been Zoey, she didn't seem planned and Alyssa wasn't thrilled.

I don’t think any of us actually know which of Alyssa’s babies were planned or not. I personally think none of them were ‘planned’ because Alyssa is an ignorant fundamentalist who married as a teenager and probably got next to no sexual education. I’m just expressing my own perception of course, but that’s why I say I can’t take anything she says about family planning seriously. Call me when she manages to go two years without a new baby.

[Melissa1977]

2 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I don’t think any of us actually know which of Alyssa’s babies were planned or not. I personally think none of them were ‘planned’ because Alyssa is an ignorant fundamentalist who married as a teenager and probably got next to no sexual education. I’m just expressing my own perception of course, but that’s why I say I can’t take anything she says about family planning seriously. Call me when she manages to go two years without a new baby.

You said she's getting pregnant few months after each birth and it just happened once. Because 1 year gap between pregnancies (21 months between babies) cannot be considered "few months".

She said she wanted 6 and now she's saying she could eventually stop at 4 if 4 girls. Being so young I highly doubt she's considering abstinence so yes, I think she knows how birth control works. 

Also I'm pretty sure we are going to see how many Duggars and Bates kids have small or medium families. 

[formergothardite]

Alyssa technically could say no to Kelly dumping her with her brothers weeks after giving birth, but I'm going to cut her a lot of slack because for one, she just gave birth, and two it can be very, very hard to stand up to your parents after years of being told you must obey them and not doing so is a sin. Kelly and Gil have shown that they are master manipulators, I'm not going to blame Alyssa a great deal for not currently having the strength to tell her asshole parents no. 

Alyssa's husband should have spoken up, but he too was raised in an environment where he was trained to always obey his parents. 

Gil and Kelly are just bad people. 

[TatiFish9]

I think the only way to know if they're using any method of prevention is if they mention it. Otherwise it's just speculation. Even with Jinger, we have no idea if they struggled or prevented. Every woman's body is different and Jeremy is a slightly older male who also could have had some issues. 

Anyhow, Erin also said Everly was her last (making it seem like she was an oops) but apparently she has to go the doctor for assistance so all of hers will be planned.

I just thought it was interesting that Alyssa was alluding to trying for a boy. That means at least their family planning is intentional and can be stopped if desired sex is not accomplished.

[Coconut Flan]

13 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

Anyhow, Erin also said Everly was her last (making it seem like she was an oops) but apparently she has to go the doctor for assistance so all of hers will be planned.

Erin has to go to the doctor as soon as she knows that she is pregnant, but she has no issues conceiving.  She has a clotting problem that increases the risk of miscarriage.

[TatiFish9]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

Erin has to go to the doctor as soon as she knows that she is pregnant, but she has no issues conceiving.  She has a clotting problem that increases the risk of miscarriage.

I am sorry if I was not clear. I am saying that Erin needs assistance once she gets pregnant, but not to get pregnant. The way she spoke to her doctor on the recent episodes of Bates, she is aware her pregnancies are high risk from beginning to end.  Therefore she has to plan to have her child in knowledge that she needs assistance with successful pregnancy and delivery. But that is just my interpretation of what she said. What is clear is that she said she was stopping at two because of the risk. Yet she had a third. The doctor says she will have more. 

[Coconut Flan]

Needing the assistance after conceiving doesn't mean Erin plans her pregnancies.  It means once she realizes she is pregnant, she needs to call the doctor ASAP.  I have a similar medical condition. 

[VineHeart137]

 

55 minutes ago, TatiFish9 said:

What is clear is that she said she was stopping at two because of the risk.

When did Erin say she was stopping at two? Or that Everly was their last?

[justmy2cents]

1 hour ago, VineHeart137 said:

 

When did Erin say she was stopping at two? Or that Everly was their last?

She didn't. She joked in one of their Live specials and some people took it seriously. 

Also, at 30 Jeremy is not likely to have any issues. Not age related anyway. Men's fertility may drop off but normally not until after 35.

[TatiFish9]

@justmy2cents @VineHeart137

I am not quite sure we're speaking of the same thing. I did not see Erin on anything live. I am talking about the latest episode of "Bringing up Bates". I don't know where to find a video or how to post one, but here is what happened: 

Spoiler

 

The Bates family is rigorously planning for Tori's wedding but Chad and Erin are having a special moment of their own. They're seeing Dr. Vick for an ultrasound of their third child, another girl. They brought their son Carson along to share the moment.

In Dr. Vick's office he says everything checks out fine. Erin is happy the baby is healthy.

Dr. Vick: Now all you have is... fif..fif...no 16...16 more and we'll be there. 

Erin: awkward laughter

Chad: Oh, dear.

Dr. Vick: You said you were only going to have one after your first one.

***Everyone chuckles***

Erin: Then I said I was only going to have two. So with three, I...I am thinking I am only going to have three, Sir (or So *difficult to hear). ***chuckles***

Chad: Is your mind made up now?

 ***more chuckles from everyone***

Then they go to interview where Erin says she is speculating that Tori will be in the top two to have amount of children in the teens.

Producer?: You're currently tied for the lead.

Erin (smiling hard): Every time I say this is my last, I don't know what happens. I gotta stop looking at newborn babies. I just can't. They just melt me. (Erin touches her heart tenderly).

Erin (back in Dr. Vick's office): I say three strikes and I am out! ***Laughing. But no one believes her at this point.****

Dr. Vick (patting Chad on the leg). We'll see, won't we?

Erin. Thanks, Dr. Vick. 
***Their laughing begins to die down***

Chad: That's right. That's right, we'll see. I say Carson needs a brother.

Erin (No longer laughing but still sorta smiling): Naaaaw,  well we're going to adopt him.

Dr. Vick talks into a duck voice to Carson 

Chad: Yeah, there we go.

 

That means she did say it? Whether she was joking or not is up to the interpreter, I suppose. But she said she was stopping at one, two and now firmly three to her doctor and husband. Then at the end she threw in adoption. Whether I believe her or not is another story at this point.

 

Also, a 30 year old's sperm count is expected to be the same as a 20 year old in this day and age with male fertility rapidly declining. Interesting. 

 

@Coconut Flan  Okay, I understand. I was under the impression that because she has serious complications with her pregnancy, even after receiving treatment with the blood clotting, that she would need to at least financially plan for seeing a specialist and medical care in the hospital when considering to have each baby. I also thought that Everly was a surprise (meaning the others were not). And, I guess that could still be the case. 

[Coconut Flan]

Erin seems to be seeing Dr Vick not a further specialist and her births are pretty much the same as anyone else's once in the hospital.  They like to try to control the time she delivers so she can go off the anti-coagulant in a controlled manner.  I think Erin may have genuinely been surprised by Everly which likely means they aren't using a very reliable means of preventing if they are using anything at all.  It does sound like Erin is potentially open to birth control at some point.

[TatiFish9]

I am not sure how it is everywhere, but we consider any doctor who is not primary care or generalist to be a specialist. I was thinking Dr. Vick, being OB/GYN is a specialist who would require additional costs if paying out of pocket. But maybe Erin and Chad have medical insurance. He has his own business but maybe Marketplace?

Anyhow, Erin would have to see him for extra visits due to unspecified complications? She also has to pay for medication to treat her condition? I am taking this from the show. I have very little knowledge of the disorder.

I am glad she was able to discover her issue pretty early on and receive treatment that helped her maintain a pregnancy.