Murder charges for fundie parents

[Vex]

Well, Carri and Larry are not in control of anything now. They are eating what they are told to eat, staying in one room, no windows, wearing what they are told to wear, wait till the get sentenced and transferred to a prison for other people like them, murderers, then they'll get a taste of even more horror, not unlike the horror they dished out to these two precious children!

This is the reason I am so strongly against the death penalty (except in very rare cases). For people like these, who bully the weak and vulnerable and control their lives, I think the best possible punishment is to lock them up and force them to be controlled and have their freedom totally usurped.

Maybe it makes me a bad person, but I wouldn't be sorry if inmates found out they were child killers (and they always seem to find out) and beat the hell out of them at every given chance. However, I have no doubt that they're going to be kept away from the general population. I guess it's for the best, can you imagine the fundy uproar if one of them was killed in jail? They'd forever be a martyr to the cause.

[koolmom]

I'm glad these cretins are finally getting what's coming to them. I hope they also get some "jailhouse justice" via their cellmates, too. I could hardly believe the torture these people inflicted on that poor child and her brother, too. This is truly the stuff of nightmares. Makes you wonder if Mommy Carrie didn't cotton to the notion that Hana was an adolescent, and not a younger child she could mold easier? She acted like a bona-fide slaveowner and acted out every awful notion I've read about in history books. I'm also wondering aren't parents who adopt from foreign countries, particularly those who adopt older children, given ANY advice/instructions on how to care-take a child from their homeland? Esp. another ethnicity like African? By that one picture, I could see Hana's hair wasn't taken care of properly. Black folks have different ways of keeping their hair from white folks, and if you don't learn the right ways, you'll ruin a perfectly good head of hair. Sweet Hana was blooming into what looked like a beautiful girl. Wonder if Mommy harbored some jealousy over that, too? Were there any close in age daughters in that family? They supposedly lived in a gated community, were there any neighbors who might have noticed anything awry?

The accounts of their own bio children of their new foster home environments were very telling. Sounds like straight out of the FLDS Zion Ranch fostered kids. And yes, someone needs to check into those older kids' participation in their abuse of Hana. Anyone over the age of say, 14 or so, needs to be brought to justice in Juvenile Court for their actions involved.

Even if they plead, "I was scared of Mommy/Daddy, etc.", they still need to be shown that hurting another child is NOT acceptable in our society. Did I hear the grandparents getting in an uproar about the treatment their children were getting dished out? Cry me a river, Grandpa and Grandma!

[Austin]

I hope everyone does all they can, now that these parents have been charged with murder, to keep the pressure on the Pearls. Certainly, the Pearls will say that their book does not say to starve children to death. But the book does advise not feeding a child who has expressed more than one two likes/dislikes of food.

From To Train Up A Child:

Now, there are some flavors or textures that we just have an aversion for. Allow each child one or two dislikes, just don’t let their preferences be too limited. If a child doesn’t like what is on the table, let him do without until the next meal. A little fasting is good training. If you get a child who is particularly finicky and only eats a limited diet, then feed him mainly what he doesn’t like until he likes it.

The Pearls will claim that their book doesn't tell people to freeze their children to death. But the book does advise to take a child, who is slower than the parents prefer on toilet training, outside and hose them off, even declaring that the hosing the child with cold water and that along with an autumn chill, that will get the child's attention.

From To Train Up A Child:

So, my suggestion was that the father explain to the boy that, now that he was a man, he would no longer be washed in the house. He was too big and too stinky to be cleaned by the babywipes. From now on, he would be washed outside with a garden hose. The child was not to be blamed. This was to be understood as just a progressive change in methods. The next dump, the father took him out and merrily, and might I say, carelessly, washed him off. What with the autumn chill and the cold well water, I don’t remember if it took a second washing or not, but, a week later, the father told me his son was now taking himself to the pot. The child weighed the alternatives and opted to change his lifestyle. Since then, several others have been the recipients of my meddling, and it usually takes no more than three cheerful washings.

There's lots about this tragedy on the web right now and any way to push it further into the public consciousness can't hurt, with blogs or contacting the media and putting pressure on them to expose the Pearls, or whatever else anyone can think of. The Pearls need to be stopped.

Maybe it makes me a bad person, but I wouldn't be sorry if inmates found out they were child killers (and they always seem to find out) and beat the hell out of them at every given chance. However, I have no doubt that they're going to be kept away from the general population. I guess it's for the best, can you imagine the fundy uproar if one of them was killed in jail? They'd forever be a martyr to the cause.

It does not make you a bad person. I would seriously wonder about the soul of anyone who did not wish, at this moment, for retribution for these murderers. The inmates wll be waiting for them for sure, and there's not many crimes that are lower on the convict code of justice list than being a "child killer" or a "cho-mo" (child molester). Convicts may be criminals, but they're also fathers and mothers. I hope that these freaks get plopped right in general population, but they'll probably get administrative segregation for their own protection. Which I hope is its own kind of hell.

[Kitty]

I loathe the idea of using corporal punishment or the death penalty for ANYONE, but for the Pearls, I'll let that slide.

"autumn chill"? The Pearls aren't stupid enough to not know that autumn actually lasts until December 21st. Fuck, this might have been in October or November. And that's torture. Not to mention that's a good way to kill somebody in some colder climates. Holy shit.

[Guest Anonymous]

I loathe the idea of using corporal punishment or the death penalty for ANYONE, but for the Pearls, I'll let that slide.

"autumn chill"? The Pearls aren't stupid enough to not know that autumn actually lasts until December 21st. Fuck, this might have been in October or November. And that's torture. Not to mention that's a good way to kill somebody in some colder climates. Holy shit.

The indictment of the parents indicated that the tem was 42. Here in the PNW 42 at night can be pretty chilly, esp. if your parents are hosing you off and your brother took your shoes away.

[Austin]

I just found the obituary. I presume it was written by the murderers parents. I'm glad I haven't eaten recently, or else I'd probably barf:

Hana Grace-Rose Williams

Born: July 19, 1997

Died: May 12, 2011

Age: 13 years old Hana Grace-Rose Williams, age 13, passed away unexpectedly at her home in Sedro-Woolley on Thursday, May 12, 2011.

Hana was born on July 19, 1997 in Ethiopia and came to join the Larry & Carri Williams family on August 16, 2008 at the age of 11.

Hana was a very pleasant young girl with a great personality and a beautiful smile.

She enjoyed knitting and crocheting, reading, drawing and various crafts, playing soccer and riding her bicycle.

Hana is survived by her parents, Larry & Carri Williams and her siblings, Joshua, Jacob, Joseph, Cara, Sarah, Jonathan, Immanuel and Rachel at the family home in Sedro-Woolley. Her grandparents, George & Charlotte Miller of Nooksack and Pat & Dorothy Parson of Sagle, Idaho and numerous aunts, uncles and cousins.

Funeral Services will be held on Wednesday, May 18, 2011 at 2:00 PM at Lemley Chapel in Sedro-Woolley with Pastor Howard Cooper of the Good Shepherd Baptist church in Burlington officiating. Interment will follow at the Sedro-Woolley Union Cemetery.

Yeah, it doesn't sound like she ever got a chance to enjoy knitting or crocheting or reading or drawing or crafts or anything else :evil: She was too busy trying to keep body and soul together and survive being beaten, starved, and frozen - poor baby.

What a bunch of shit.

[ThisOlGirl]

Why can't I find pictures of Carri and Larry Williams? As far as I'm concerned, they need to have their mughshots spread as far and wide as possible. I also think that the adoption agency that let these two assholes adopt should be called out in a very public way and asked some questions.

[Patsy]

Yeah, they don't want their kids to be brain damaged by the mercury... :roll:

Fair enough. It's not like there's ample documentation of starvation and torture causing permanent brain injury. Certainly not up to the rigorously scientific and balanced level found in the documentation of permanent brain injury by metal sitting on brain here this crystal will fix it disorder.

[FJSharkJump]

She used to have a blog called Strong Quiver. She had 6 (?) bio kids and adopted a boy and a girl from Haiti. She said the most horrendous things about the kids, intimated they had the devil in them, etc. Disrupted the adoptions, flounced. (Anything I'm missing?)

Here's the thread from the old board. I was just a lurker, but completely horrified by this one.

http://freejinger.yuku.com/topic/7806/E ... ong-Quiver

So it has taken a couple of very late nights, but I finally finished that thread.

Oh. My. Efesem!!!!! Emma is vile. Pure evil!! I just....there aren't really words. Those poor, poor children. :cry: Can someone please tell me if they are okay? Is Justus with a compassionate, loving, non-sociopath? Where is Lovelie? I know someone posted right at the end of that thread that she thought she found her, but I couldn't find further threads at the new board to know what FJers figured out. Are we able to know that those children have not met a fate similar to Hana's?

Did CPS really look into Emma & husband? Did Emma acquire the children from Haiti through the same negligent agency that Larry & Carri used to get Hana & Immanuel from Ethiopia? The commonalities are staggering!! Authorities are checking on the children adopted by other families who used this agency (and similarly negligent agencies, if there is more than one), right?

And, I don't know......how can this storyline be repeating itself????

:crying-blue: :crying-yellow:

[Lillybee]

I don't know the family's blog that Lovelie is with but they posted pictures of her and she seems to to very happy and well loved.

[Kitty]

The indictment of the parents indicated that the tem was 42. Here in the PNW 42 at night can be pretty chilly, esp. if your parents are hosing you off and your brother took your shoes away.

Call me a Carolina girl, but 42 is fucking freezing in my book. Or maybe it's the Reynaud's. "Autumn chill" MY ASS, that is about midwinter temps here!

[gustava]

I reread what Anne Rice wrote and I can't legitimately write, "As Anne Rice wonders..." because it gives the impression that she's against Amazon selling the book and I don't think she's quite to that point yet. However, I did resubmit the review with the title "This book has no redeeming value, not even for adults." If it doesn't go through again, I will raise the issue with Amazon's administration, because it's time to cut the Pearls off and make it difficult to get their piece of crap child abuse manual.

ETA: it must have been the title, because it's now live.

GOOD that it's posted. And I agree that Rice is raising the question. I don't object that she hasn't come down on one side or the other of the issue, as just opening up space for discussion is important.

[BravaAmica]

Why can't I find pictures of Carri and Larry Williams? As far as I'm concerned, they need to have their mughshots spread as far and wide as possible. I also think that the adoption agency that let these two assholes adopt should be called out in a very public way and asked some questions.

This, a thousand times this. Why hasn't their adoption agency been asking questions about what happened?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

The temperature of 42 was on the day she died, wasn't it? If I recall from the indictment, she was just left out in the yard (eventually shoeless, but) and it was RAINING all day.

If you've ever had to work outside (or been on a picket!) on a day like that, you know it's not the extreme of extremes but absolutely you'd want warm clothes on, some sort of hot beverage at intervals (to warm your hands if nothing else), and ideally the ability to go inside from time to time, because that humidity in the air just chills right to the core. I can't imagine being locked outside in only thin single-layer clothes ALL DAY on a day like that, absolutely hypothermia sounds perfectly possible to me. What feels just fine or even pleasantly cool on a quick walk outside to do an errand is something else when it's all day long standing around. Plus again, the rain. 42 on a dry day when you're in the sunshine is completely different from 42 when it's socked in raining, clammy and bone-chilling.

Just... eugh.

[starfish]

That child probably had 0% body fat; a temperature of 42, combined with her other health issues, was devastating to her.

And like I said, those parents would not dream of "contaminating" their biological children with vaccinations. These are the same people that consulted the Pearls for child-raising advice. If their kook pastor or whatever guru they've hooked up with told them the sun rotated around the earth, they would believe it.

I like to think of the surviving children thriving in a foster home, away from these murderous control freaks.

I have not found any photos of the happy couple either. Skagit County Jail does not post book-in photos. You'd think the local media would dig up one.

[Austin]

And, I don't know......how can this storyline be repeating itself????

:crying-blue: :crying-yellow:

I think it's very true that this story line has repeated itself, with the worst possible outcome other than both children being murdered. The story of Lovelie and Justus really pierced my heart several months ago (sorry if that sounds fundie, but I actually mean it) and I thought it about it a lot for many weeks, as I'm many FJers did. This one is even worse. These horrific outcomes are completely senseless and could have been prevented at many junctures along the way.

I realize many people in the USA hate the government and they don't want any regulation over anyting to do with raising children. But I believe that these adoption agencies should be very regulated for the safety of these children, particularly in adoptions of older children and international children, and that adoptive parents of these children should have to be willing to be open about their childrearing in order to participate.

I don't know exactly how some of these agencies come into business, but it sort of seems like these private, religious-based agencies just kind of pop up and name themselves something religious-y like "Little Lambs of God" or some such crud and then they're off and running and there is no oversight either from within the private agency or the public entities that protect children. Did these agencies do home studies on Emma and her asshole husband, or on the Williams? Did they talk privately to their existing children and ask meaningful questions about how the home is run and how the interaction plays out between the parents and the children? Do they ask if the parents believe that corporal punishment is an appropriate way to discipline a child? What other methods of punishment would they use? And is the family amenable to follow-up (accountability), to include private interviews with the adopted children on an ongoing basis?

Why not require a psychological evaluation on these parents? Hell, I had to pass a psychological exam to get a damn position within my state government, not to mention a polygraph. Why should the bar be lower to adopt a child? God only knows the constellation of psychiatric problems that may have been discovered in both of these couples if an evaluation had been done on the parents by a psychologist or psychiatrist.

Answers to these questions would provide information - and red flags - so that agencies can make better decisions. It seems like it's more about money than it is about finding "good homes" for hard-to-place children. As it stands now, the private religious-based system is like a candy store to these "child collectors".

A lot of people would find much of this too intrusive, not just fundies, and to a small extent I get that. But if a family has nothing to hide, what's the problem? There has always been a sense that to adopt a child, you must be worthy of that privilege in a variety of ways. Health of the parents, finances, family dynamics, and a host of things are considered in an above-board adoption (or at least should be). As a society, we need to acknowledge that the adoption of older children and international children brings with it many more stressors than the domestic adoption of a newborn. While I believe there should be oversight in all adoptions, I think there needs, in particular, for oversight to be ongoing in these adoptions that statistically have many more problems.

I'm rambling, I know. . . I just can't get this off my mind, partly because of the horror of it, and the intense feelings of sadness for this little girl, but partly because as a society, we should be able to do better. We should accept nothing less than doing better and people that were involved in this from beginning to end should be called to account.

[oscar]

I know this family doesn't want a lot of attention from us, but I thought curiouser and others would be happy to see pictures of Lovelie looking very happy and well cared for with her new parents and siblings:

majesticpintabians.blogspot.com/

Emma adopted Justus and Lovelie through Barbara Walker’s facilitation service “Reach Out to Haiti,†reachouttohaiti.com/ That organization is currently forbidden to arrange or facilitate adoptions, unless and until they are approved to do so by CFS in New York State. Several of us here at FJ compiled information from Emma's blogs, identified contact persons within NYCFS and sent them this documentation, along with a cover letter articulating deep unease over the apparent lapses in judgment and oversight by Walker's agency in placing Justus and Lovelie in the McMillian home. We have reason to believe that our concerns were taken very seriously by NYCFS.

Hanna was adopted by the Williams family through a different agency, "Adoption Advocates International," adoptionadvocates.org/ Their online promotional material doesn't raise the same red flags as Walker's service, but clearly something went terribly wrong in the case of Hanna's placement. I was troubled to note that the instructions on their website suggest parents who adopt children from Ethiopia avoid including information about adjustment issues in their post-placement reports to the government, orphanage and bio family. These instructions can be downloaded in pdf format from this link: adoptionadvocates.org/ethiopia/Family.Post.Placement.Instructions.NEW.pdf

It is not clear what post-placement follow-up the agency does themselves.

[Black Aliss]

The indictment of the parents indicated that the tem was 42. Here in the PNW 42 at night can be pretty chilly, esp. if your parents are hosing you off and your brother took your shoes away.

Also, she had basically no body fat so hypothermia could set in pretty quickly.

[Terrie]

42F is much closer to freezing than it is to even a low room temperature. And if you're wet, even room temp. can be chilly. The excuses some of the apologists made about "Well, it was May, it wasn't that cold" make me sick.

[EmmieJ]

I might add Clairissa herself has said they don;t have the money to afford a child so the christian grifter that she is she is looking for everyone else to provide for the kid just like kate grifts freebies for her kids. The mertz'es don't have a steady income either ye

This is just ridiculous. If this family does not have enough money for adoption costs, and no steady income - they should not be allowed to adopt a child. How will they then have enough money to raise any child they are allowed to adopt? When does the begging stop? What if they don't adopt - what happens to the money they've already received? Do they keep it?

I am most definitely in favor of very strict regulation of any adoptions, whether it be a baby born in the U.S. or one from another country. There should be regular monthly home checks during at least the first year after adoption. I think psychological tests should be done on prospective adoptive parents as well, to try to weed out some of the more extreme whackos.

[Austin]

I know this family doesn't want a lot of attention from us, but I thought curiouser and others would be happy to see pictures of Lovelie looking very happy and well cared for with her new parents and siblings:

majesticpintabians.blogspot.com/

Emma adopted Justus and Lovelie through Barbara Walker’s facilitation service “Reach Out to Haiti,†reachouttohaiti.com/ That organization is currently forbidden to arrange or facilitate adoptions, unless and until they are approved to do so by CFS in New York State. Several of us here at FJ compiled information from Emma's blogs, identified contact persons within NYCFS and sent them this documentation, along with a cover letter articulating deep unease over the apparent lapses in judgment and oversight by Walker's agency in placing Justus and Lovelie in the McMillian home. We have reason to believe that our concerns were taken very seriously by NYCFS.

Hanna was adopted by the Williams family through a different agency, "Adoption Advocates International," adoptionadvocates.org/ Their online promotional material doesn't raise the same red flags as Walker's service, but clearly something went terribly wrong in the case of Hanna's placement. I was troubled to note that the instructions on their website suggest parents who adopt children from Ethiopia avoid including information about adjustment issues in their post-placement reports to the government, orphanage and bio family. These instructions can be downloaded in pdf format from this link: adoptionadvocates.org/ethiopia/Family.Post.Placement.Instructions.NEW.pdf

It is not clear what post-placement follow-up the agency does themselves.

Thanks for posting this info, oscar. I do remember the Barbara Walker discussion on the old board and it's very, very good to know that she has been reined in somewhat.

ETA: I took a look at that pdf and that is disturbing. I found it very condescending toward the Ethiopian people. They were clearly telling adoptive parents not to express anything negative, and just send lots of pretty, happy-happy photos, because that's what they understand. :roll:

I wonder when the last time Carrie and Larry sent photos of Hana to anyone.

[kb2]

Call me a Carolina girl, but 42 is fucking freezing in my book. Or maybe it's the Reynaud's. "Autumn chill" MY ASS, that is about midwinter temps here!

I'd file that temp under "fucking freezing" as well.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I'd file that temp under "fucking freezing" as well.

42 is a very normal fall and spring temp for me and it's flip flop weather for us crazies around here in the spring after a gruesome winter, but it's definitely fucking freezing for a wet child, especially one who is starving/emaciated and exhausted. My daughter is pretty warm-natured and has some meat on her bones and I'd still have her whisked inside, stripped out of her wet clothes and wrapped up in a blanket if she somehow found herself outside and soaking wet in that kind of weather, no question. The ladies who act like it's no big deal are psychotic.

[Guest Anonymous]

After reading about this case and all of your posts, I don't known what else I could say that hasn't already been expressed here. All I can say that right now is that my 11yr. old daughter is laying on our living room floor right now working on a puzzle and watching Disney Channel while I finish up dinner and catch up on this blog. I couldn't imagine not feeding her dinner tonight, or beating her or making her be outside right now (it's raining where I am). I hope these parents never see the light of day. I'm going to go hug my baby girl right now.

[Buzzard]

Its illegal to leave a dog outside in 42 degree weather without access to dry shelter, food and water. Fucking ridiculous to think someone could do otherwise to a dog let alone a child.