Dillards 31: Grifting, Lying, and Allergies

[Jaeniduggar]

9 minutes ago, Fundie Bunny said:

I don't think that was THE Picture that got us talking. I think Izzy was younger, swaddled like a bad burrito on top of a bed. Does a anyone remember or have time to search the threads?

This one? Only found this really crappy version from Hollywood gossip: https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/04/jill-and-derick-dillard-under-fire-again-for-these-parenting-met/

[Fundie Bunny]

@Jaeniduggar That one it is!!!!!

[Jaeniduggar]

1 minute ago, Fundie Bunny said:

@Jaeniduggar That one it is!!!!!

Here is the full pic on FJ on the Dillard thread number 9: 

 

[Carm_88]

Wow Izzy looks really, really unhappy. Poor kid. 

[MadeItOut]

5 hours ago, KelseyAnn said:

I'd like to learn, too. But the previous five attempts have yet to be successful. 

Ooooo a challenge. I love it!

[viii]

My church heavily encouraged blanket training, and were really upset with my mom for not doing it. She just couldn't in good conscience. My friends that I grew up with in the fundie church were blanket trained though, their parents would line the outside of the blanket with toys and candy and spank the kids when they reached out past the edge of the blanket. It's a horrible practice. 

[MadeItOut]

I have so much awe for you ladies who went to term. I carried a lot larger than Jill in this latest photo and all my survivors were born between 32 & 36 weeks! That's including my daughter, 5lb 8oz born - with her, I actually ended up on early leave at 25 weeks after I couldn't get the bump around the stall door in the loo at work.

[Daisy0322]

3 minutes ago, viii said:

My church heavily encouraged blanket training, and were really upset with my mom for not doing it. She just couldn't in good conscience. My friends that I grew up with in the fundie church were blanket trained though, their parents would line the outside of the blanket with toys and candy and spank the kids when they reached out past the edge of the blanket. It's a horrible practice. 

I just can't get over how fucked up that is. I mean, I'm all for putting them in a pack and play so you can pee in peace for a minute but damn. Who was the first person that expected a baby to have that kind of self control and how did they managed to convince so many people it's a good idea? 

[viii]

7 minutes ago, Daisy0322 said:

I just can't get over how fucked up that is. I mean, I'm all for putting them in a pack and play so you can pee in peace for a minute but damn. Who was the first person that expected a baby to have that kind of self control and how did they managed to convince so many people it's a good idea? 

Right? I have no idea where it originally started, but my old church in general was incredibly fucked up, enough to make it on cult websites. Hurrah. But yeah, my parents followed a lot of the teachings but thankfully drew the line at blanket training. Now, there is much they would go back and do over  Makes me sad to see them so guilty, but I know they were victims of circumstances too. 

[NotQuiteMotY]

7 hours ago, Irishy said:

The Duggar child I've always wanted to adopt is Jackson. (Snipped.)

We dont see much of him anymore, but back in 19k&c days, he was very obviously behind and struggling. Huge SOTDRT fail, neglect and exceptionally shitty parenting

YES. I just watched the first three seasons recently, and just watching him retrieving his workbook and getting distracted in one ep made me wonder if they would ever test for ADD and if they would have any kind of alternative learning other the workbooks.

3 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

...it could also easily be he got himself rolled up in a blanket somehow, didn't like it, and couldn't get out in his own. 

I wonder if that was the case in that shot. If Little NQ did that, I suspect I might laugh and maybe take a quick picture if my camera was close at hand before unwinding him, but not necessarily put it on the internet. Even if I did, there would definitely be a caption about him being angry at what he'd gotten himself into: something very much "oh, silly baby, isn't he cute?" 

That said, the one where he's wrapped on the bed is more concerning, because that seems more like swaddling an older baby as a restraint, for some reason, at least to me.

3 hours ago, CharlieInCharge said:

I was more tired by the end of my pregnancy, but I still went for a day at the fair with less than six weeks to go and had a great time. Two days before I had my baby I was putting up our garden harvest, probably standing for 6-8 hours. 

Yeah, my last month I worked at my part-time job for maybe five hours, most of it standing, and I spent some time planting and laying down weed cover in the garden. I carried small, though. It's still possible she is fairly comfortable despite her stomach size.

[Bad Wolf]

@Irishy I called Jackson first. You can have him for summer vacations.  I wasn't surprised that the Dullards were out and about I was surprised that they were at evil boy scout camp. Dwreck was quite disgusted that the boy scouts were going to allow transgender youths to join. Wonder how he deals with his brother on that issue.

 

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, Jaeniduggar said:

This one? Only found this really crappy version from Hollywood gossip: https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2017/04/jill-and-derick-dillard-under-fire-again-for-these-parenting-met/

Here's the version from their website:

The problem is that we don't know his age. The photo was added December 30, 2015 - but it was part of a group of about 55 photos where he ranges in age from a newborn to being capable of sitting and appearing to crawl. With him so bundled up there simply isn't an easy way to figure out a set age (especially since he's always been a big boy, so his length isn't much help.)

That said, it's clearly a photo from SCA. They first went down around July 5, 2015. They returned in August for Michael Bates and Brandon Keilen's wedding (August 15) and returned just a few days later. They returned to Arkansas in early September for Amy and Dillon's Labor Day weekend wedding. They stayed until mid to late October, during which time Jill earned her NARM certification.  After that, they stayed in SCA through the new year.

So, given this photo was taken before December 31, 2015 and it's a photo from SCA...

He could be 3-5 months old. Most sources I've looked at says 3-4 months is a common time to stop swaddling because many babies start rolling at that point (usually by 5 months - my preemie didn't until four days before hitting 6 months.) So if he's this age in the photo I don't think it's a massively big issue. He could have been super fussy and needed swaddling to calm down - sometimes it takes a bit for a baby to settle when they're very upset. It happened to my daughter several times when she was younger (but, you know, I'm not a dumbass who shares photos of it online.)

Or, he could be between 6 and 8 months old. Which would be an issue since he is obviously pissed off and big enough to roll over - trapping the arms in a swaddle prevents baby from being able to roll back over. 

We can clearly see a box of nursing pads on the nightstand (I used the same ones.) I don't think that'll be helpful since I believe Jill nursed a long time, but if she didn't it could help pinpoint an exact time frame better.

[JoyJoy]

11 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

@Irishy I called Jackson first. You can have him for summer vacations.  I wasn't surprised that the Dullards were out and about I was surprised that they were at evil boy scout camp. Dwreck was quite disgusted that the boy scouts were going to allow transgender youths to join. Wonder how he deals with his brother on that issue.

 

Hasn't  Dan spoken out against LGBT people in the boy scouts?

Also, I think the boy scouts have been "forced" to change their policies. The boy scouts aren't as inclusive as the girls scouts.

[Flossie]

Isn't it time to stop swaddling when the baby makes it clear that he or she doesn't like it?  I'm so glad that I was taught to swaddle loosely and not to do it if the baby struggled against it.

[VelociRapture]

7 minutes ago, Flossie said:

Isn't it time to stop swaddling when the baby makes it clear that he or she doesn't like it?  I'm so glad that I was taught to swaddle loosely and not to do it if the baby struggled against it.

If baby is clearly upset and struggling and hates it on a consistent basis, then yes. If not or baby is fussy but then settles just fine then between 3-5 months is acceptable. Without knowing Izzy's age or the story behind the photo we can't know for sure whether it was a blanket training attempt or just parents trying to calm down a child who is age-appropriate for swaddling.

(I don't doubt they're stupid enough to try blanket training. Just pointing out I have no insider info and don't know for sure. I don't want to accuse any parents of blanket training - even a Duggar - without firm proof.)

[Iamtheway]

Swaddling is not that common here and Miniway would surely have hated it. He has always hated sleeping with even a light blanket on top of him. 

I probably caused that with my fear of his face getting covered by a duvet (no need for duvet thread drift here). When he was a baby I switched out our duvets for thin blankets in duvet covers (seriously, we just had that thread drift) and always had him sleeping uncovered. We did co-sleep though since he would always wake up when moved. 

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

Swaddling is not that common here and Miniway would surely have hated it. He has always hated sleeping with even a light blanket on top of him. 

I probably caused that with my fear of his face getting covered by a duvet (no need for duvet thread drift here). When he was a baby I switched out our duvets for thin blankets in duvet covers (seriously, we just had that thread drift) and always had him sleeping uncovered. We did co-sleep though since he would always wake up when moved. 

We used swaddles for our daughter that are wrapped using Velcro. Like this:

We actually used the exact one pictured (Halo sleepsack swaddle.) Velocibaby was sent home with a preemie size from NICU and we've bought more in bigger sizes as she's grown. The Velcro helps make it more secure and there's a much lower risk of the baby's face getting covered somehow. We stopped using the swaddles once she was consistently breaking her hands and arms out during the night (somewhere between two and three months), but she never managed to undo the Velcro pinning the wings down - she just loosened it until she could pull her hands out.

The idea behind the swaddle is to comfort the new baby by mimicking the womb. It's a tight squeeze in the womb in late pregnancy and can help baby adjust to sleeping in the outside world during the "fourth" trimester. It worked great for us because our daughter was born in winter and needed the extra warmth at night. But since you were able to safely co-sleep then your son may not have needed the extra warmth from a swaddle - he would have gotten any extra warmth he needed from being close to you guys.

(Husband and I weren't interested in co-sleeping in the same bed as her due to fear of rolling over onto her. She stayed in our room the first six months, just in a separate pack n play. She transitioned to her crib earlier his month because my sister needed to borrow the pack n play she was using at night. So, technically co-sleeping, but not what most people would immediately think of.)

[LittleOwl]

10 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Dwreck was quite disgusted that the boy scouts were going to allow transgender youths to join. Wonder how he deals with his brother on that issue

I wonder that too.  I'm part of the scouting world.. and I nearly choked on my coffee when I read that vile tweet.  We had something flare up in the UK earlier this year about how Guiding allowed trans members and leaders... which lead to some people saying that they would demand to know the Leader's "birth gender" before allowing their precious child to join the unit!  

[Million Children For Jesus]

12 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Dwreck was quite disgusted that the boy scouts were going to allow transgender youths to join. Wonder how he deals with his brother on that issue.

I read Derick's rant about his disappointment in the Boy Scouts for allowing kids to join based on gender identity. What is the situation with his brother on the issue? 

[Iamtheway]

7 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

(Husband and I weren't interested in co-sleeping in the same bed as her due to fear of rolling over onto her. She stayed in our room the first six months, just in a separate pack n play. She transitioned to her crib earlier his month because my sister needed to borrow the pack n play she was using at night. So, technically co-sleeping, but not what most people would immediately think of.)

I was never scared I would roll over him. But I wasn't as sure about Mr Way so I slept in the middle. We did breastfeeding lying down and then we both fell asleep during. Compared to friends with babies I was so well rested. Miniway slept on his side with a rolled up towel behind his back. 

We still co-sleep and Miniway is 3,5 now. He occasionally wants to sleep in his own bed in his room and I assume there will be more and more of those nights. Every time it happens is a mix of ”yes, I get to sleep without a foot in my face” and ”oh no, my baby is growing up.” 

[Million Children For Jesus]

Off subject, but one of the fashion blogs I follow has an article titled, "The One Shoe Style to Avoid the Next Time You Wear a Denim Skirt." It made me think of the Duggars, and well, all fundies. The Answer: Flip Flops. Advised are block heels and chic slides. In the pictures, they look like wedge sandals, mules, and dressy sandals bordering on a flip flop. 

[Jug Band Baby]

On 6/22/2017 at 5:49 PM, cascarones said:

Not sure if anyone else has a soft spot for the snark in advice columns, but this one about the wife struggling with what to do with her husband wanting to go on a mission trip and not knowing how to tell him she won't be able to cope with the workload of five kids and full time school/ if she should even tell him seems relevant to Jill and Derick (and possibly a few of the other couples). 

Dear Carolyn- Husband Asks to Go on Mission Trip

 

If that lady thinks that a missions trip is a week of fun, something's wrong.  If a person is on a missions trip to help with skills the locals don't have, like a doctor or an engineer helping safely plan out an area, then it's going to be hard work, not a fun vacation.

On 6/23/2017 at 4:49 PM, singsingsing said:

Well, it's a hell of a lot more complex than that. I'm not a Catholic, or a traditional/orthodox Christian, but there are vast, intricate layers of history, philosophy, theology and tradition that go into it. It's not just a matter of some random dude saying, "I'm the Pope, do what I say or else lol" and a bunch of fools believing him. I say this because I think atheists very often do themselves a disservice and vastly weaken their own arguments when they're blithely dismissive of thousands of years of theology, doctrine, and religious tradition.

It's not really a lot more complex.  Catholics believe that the Pope has a direct line to God, and whatever the Pope says has to come from God.  Not believing the Pope is the same as calling God a liar.  Catholics can dislike something, but as supposed to believe it.

I'm an atheist, but grew up in a Catholic household.  So just being an atheist doesn't mean someone is blithely dismissing something.  I was 5 when I first got in trouble because I couldn't force myself to believe stuff that didn't make sense just because I was told to.  There are other things that have been theology, doctrine, and tradition for thousands of years, but the time doesn't matter since none of us were alive that long.  We don't excuse other stuff just because it's been tradition.

[Juest]

2 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

 Catholics believe that the Pope has a direct line to God, and whatever the Pope says has to come from God.  Not believing the Pope is the same as calling God a liar.

No. Catholic doctrine is that the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, continues the role of Peter the Rock to whom Jesus directed to "build his church" [the body of Christ].

No hotline to God lol. More of a hand off,  from Peter, commissioned by Jesus Christ himself, to each successor. The idea of the primacy of the Bishop of Rome, which evolved during the 5th century, was to keep Christian doctrine unified and pure to it's source. [Look up Leo I and the Councils of Nicaea]

The Pope is kind of like the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court interpreting the New Testament as the divine Constitution.

[SuchABlessing]

2 minutes ago, Juest said:

No. Catholic doctrine is that the Pope, the Bishop of Rome, continues the role of Peter the Rock to whom Jesus directed to "build his church" [the body of Christ].

No hotline to God lol. More of a hand off,  from Peter, commissioned by Jesus Christ himself, to each successor. The idea of the primacy of the Bishop of Rome, which evolved during the 5th century, was to keep Christian doctrine unified and pure to it's source. [Look up Leo I and the Councils of Nicaea]

The Pope is kind of like the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court interpreting the New Testament as the divine Constitution.

I love you. I get excited when someone gets Catholic doctrine correct!!!!! 

According to doctrine, Jesus said Peter was "the rock on whom I will build my church", so Peter was the first pope technically. And early Christians took that literally, as Vatican City is actually built over St. Peter's grave. Also that's why the Pope's signet ring is known as the "ring of the fisherman", as a homage to Peter's day job lol 

then you get to the Middle Ages where the Church started changing to reflect the fact that the Pope held immense political power and things get REALLY screwed up for a while lol. 

 

[Four is Enough]

4 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

It's not really a lot more complex.  Catholics believe that the Pope has a direct line to God, and whatever the Pope says has to come from God.  Not believing the Pope is the same as calling God a liar.  Catholics can dislike something, but as supposed to believe it.

Um.... no. No direct line to God. The Pope is only considered infallible when he is speaking "ex cathedra" on doctrine.

And while we can and do dislike things, we are also able to NOT believe something, because free will.