Literal fundamentalist party forms government in the UK

[unsafetydancer]

So now in the UK we have these guys gaining a bit of control:

https://www.ft.com/content/0fa04ca8-4d07-11e7-a3f4-c742b9791d43?segmentId=e3ff42ab-4570-8078-dd83-b13975779f7a&segment_detail=Story9UKElectionsUKwhatdupwants

Due to the fact that the Tories fucked up so badly and overestimated their ability to retain a majority they have now had to team up with the DUP to stay in power. Most people who are not from Northern Ireland have had to google them over the past 24 hours. I knew a bit about them from some of the guys I went to uni with.

They have some pretty awful and some downright whack beliefs. They want to get rid of marriage equality for a start but it's also down to them that thousands of Northern Irish women have to pay for plane tickets over to the mainland for an abortion as the only remaining place it's illegal is in NI. They have ties to the Orange Order, a sectarian group that bullies and persecutes Catholics by holiding disgusting "marches" through highly catholic areas to indimidate them. Apparently they also think line dancing is sinful.

As soon as I can I am running so fast away from this country.

[sawasdee]

I'm just praying that the inherent instabilityof this coalition means there has to be another election - SOON!

I believe that a great many Brits on both sides of the political divide are nauseated by the DUP.

And add in that this could destabilise the Peace Process in NI, by giving the DUP a huge advantage in any negotiations - the general public has absolutely no wish to return to the nineties, and all that would mean.

Hopefully, this is a politically disastrous move for May.

[unsafetydancer]

There are some murmurs that this coalition breaks the terms of the Good Friday agreement. Not sure that will stop the Tories going ahead with it but it might make some people see how much they flat out don't care about anythign but staying in power.

[sawasdee]

^^^I can't see how it DOESN'T break the terms.

[apple1]

I can't open the article linked in the opening post.

Does that party have anything to do with the old Ian Paisley group?

[sawasdee]

@apple1 It was founded by Paisley, and he was leader almost until his death. They want to keep abortion banned*, do not recognise LBGTQ rights, want creationism only taught in schools, and also to be in museum exhibits as well that mention evolution - they are the UK's own, very nasty fundies. (Oh, and they don't believe in Global Warming, either)

They are the political face of two terrorist groups, UVF and UDA, much as Sinn Fein was for the PIRA, and many of the present representatives have family who were part of these groups. They wish to have the right to march, with bands, through catholic districts on 12th July - the anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 - in order to celebrate their victory.

By allying herself with them, May is alienating many of her own party - particularly the Scottish Conservatives. It also gives the perception of UK government bias in any issues regarding the Good Friday Agreement.

They are poison.

(And can you imagine a minority Labour Government holding power by an agreement with Sinn Fein? It's basically the same thing.)

ETA*Northern Ireland is the only place in the UK where abortion is not freely availabe, and same sex marriage is not allowed - partly thanks to these fuckers. Northern Ireland, like Scotland and Wales, has internal self government.

[Audrey2]

48 minutes ago, sawasdee said:

They are the political face of two terrorist groups, UVF and UDA, much as Sinn Fein was for the PIRA, and many of the present representatives have family who were part of these groups. They wish to have the right to march, with bands, through catholic districts on 12th July - the anniversary of the Battle of the Boyne in 1690 - in order to celebrate their victory.

I'm not from Great Britain, so I may be misunderstanding something, but isn't this the most ridiculous, tone deaf march possible? It sounds like groups of Union troop re-enactors from the American Civil War marching through the streets of Richmond VA and other cities in the South (Atlanta also comes to mind) on April 9. How inappropriate!

[sawasdee]

@Audrey2 Exactly! That's why they do it! It very often leads to violence.

And in a way, whites in KKK outfits marching through entirely black areas is closer to the feeling it engenders.

And they've been doing it for over 220 years - they were in full control of the province until 50 years ago. They did it to show who was in charge.

I wish some of our Northern Irish posters would chime in - @EmainMacha, @blessalessi etc. I know the history, but I have never lived there. And I was raised Irish Catholic - so, built in prejudice.

[EmainMacha]

Unfortunately I'm quite biased too. I don't like the DUP. They have never really represented my views or beliefs or that of Northern Irish Catholics in general. In fact its founder Ian Paisley was very active against the civil rights movement in the 60s/70s which aimed to improve the position of Catholics in NI.

Of course the same is true of Sinn Fein and Unionist families in terms of opposing views but the DUP were always more 'respectable' and had more influence. And admittedly they weren't/aren't the official political wing of a paramilitary organisation. That was/is the PUP and the UDP.

More recently the DUP have used their position of power in Northern Ireland to block marriage equality, abortion, an Irish language act and to promote Brexit. Despite having a female leader they are definitely not a progressive party.

I have seen them referred to as an Irish political party over the past few days which made me smile. They would not appreciate that description.

To be honest @BlessaYourHeart would probably be able to give a more useful and less biased view of the DUP as she currently lives in NI and comes from a Protestant background. I hope you don't mind me tagging you but you'd be much more up to date than me.

One of my main concerns is that northern Irish nationalists have lost their voice in parliament as no SDLP MPs were elected and Sinn Fein refuse to take their seats. So only the DUP voice will be heard on behalf of NI which I find worrying.

 

 

[BlessaYourHeart]

4 hours ago, EmainMacha said:

 

To be honest @BlessaYourHeart would probably be able to give a more useful and less biased view of the DUP as she currently lives in NI and comes from a Protestant background. I hope you don't mind me tagging you but you'd be much more up to date than me.

One of my main concerns is that northern Irish nationalists have lost their voice in parliament as no SDLP MPs were elected and Sinn Fein refuse to take their seats. So only the DUP voice will be heard on behalf of NI which I find worrying.

 

 

No I don't mind at all. Before I get to the DUP part I'm just going to back up your point there about nationalist representation at Westminster now. My constituency has always been an SDLP strong hold since the days of John Hume (you can probably guess where I'm from now) but this election it was won by Sinn Fein by 164 votes. The candidate that won has been an MLA for a while now and I've never seen her do anything for the city other than make speeches that cause tension. 

Whereas our outgoing MP was a true gentleman. He loved the city, all of it and worked so hard for the benefit of everyone. He brought tons of funding, donated his expenses checks to cross community organisations and really just worked to the benefit of the city. I feel royally screwed over by the Sinn Fein vote and it makes me sad. 

 

The DUP are a funny one in the last few years. On one hand you have the newer younger ones coming up through the party who are more open minded and willing to compromise/give the people what they want regardless of personal belief. On the other hand you still have a good amount of the old guard who are still in the mindset of the Paisley days. And then you have the somewhere in the middle who have been in the party for years but are trying to be progressive. At the minute the DUP seems to be in a state of change where a different attitude is in the works but not quite there yet. 

I voted DUP in the last assembly election because the candidate for here is a fantastic guy who works really hard for the city. We have a massive suicide problem here and he's been pushing and pushing for better mental health facilities. He also isn't a bigot or sectarian. He quite openly has friends of all walks of life, religion and sexuality which is refreshing to see. And there are plenty more like him in the party it's just that you never hear about them because a minority of the party memebers make stupid comments and cause a ruckus. 

Also the creationism stuff is lies. The DUP aren't pushing for creationism to be taught as fact in schools. That was all twisted by the media from one mans comments. 

The LGBT stuff is tricky. They as a party have opposed the marriage bill but there's people in the party that don't mind marriage equality being brought in but I feel like there's something within the party that makes them afraid to vocalise it.  I also hate how Sinn Fein use LGBT issues as weapons in debates etc. It's always like 'We support marriage equality, they don't so we're better'. Rather than looking to the core of the issues and helping move things forward. 

I can assure you the DUP don't think line dancing is evil. Where the hell did that even come from? 

Abortion isn't entirely illegal in NI. It's just very complicated 

The Irish Language Act is also a difficult one as it's not really something that exists but more of a concept. There's been statements thrown around about what would be in it but no one has actually drafted up one to have an actual debate about or to have something firm to consider implementing. I think that's the biggest problem on that one - the lack of clarity from every party. 

Every DUP party memeber I've ever met believes in Global Warming. 

They are not the political fraction of a terrorist group. There's been issues in the past with members being linked to paramilitaries but the party hasn't ever made statements, that I recall, linking themselves or being the face of UDA or UVF 

I dont really know what else to say other than if anyone has any questions ask me. 

One thing I will say though is don't believe everything you read on the media. 

[Gobsmacked]

Cheques not checks 

[BlessaYourHeart]

5 hours ago, sawasdee said:

@Audrey2 Exactly! That's why they do it! It very often leads to violence.

And in a way, whites in KKK outfits marching through entirely black areas is closer to the feeling it engenders.

And they've been doing it for over 220 years - they were in full control of the province until 50 years ago. They did it to show who was in charge.

I wish some of our Northern Irish posters would chime in - @EmainMacha, @blessalessi etc. I know the history, but I have never lived there. And I was raised Irish Catholic - so, built in prejudice.

I don't support the OO but I can firmly say you're not actually understanding what they do or how the OO has progressed in recent years. 

You're literally spouting stereotypes with no experience of the actual country 

[EmainMacha]

@BlessaYourHeart I'm sorry that you're effectively left without a voice in parliament now. It must be so frustrating. My heart went out to Mark Durkan when he apologised to John Hume for losing the seat. And your point about the Irish language act is true. I was being a bit simplistic about it. I remember the days when Thomas the Tank Engine on BBC in Irish garnered so many complaints they stopped showing it so again I'm stuck in the past a bit there!

It's interesting what you say about the younger generation perhaps being less dogmatic. The Lord Mayor of my council area just finished his term of office. He's a youngish fella and a bit 'alternative'. Certainly not the stereotype view of a Mayor. He was very active during his time in office. He's also from Sinn Fein.

There was a wee tribute video to him on Facebook on his last day. I was surprised and heartened to see the overwhelmingly positive comments about his tenure from people from both communities. It was also positive that people from Portadown Protestant backgrounds felt able to publicly praise a Sinn Fein mayor as there would have been a time when that would have been unthinkable.

So if some of the younger DUP people are less dogmatic in some areas it may be being reflected in Sinn Fein too. At least on a local level. Less 'both' communities and more 'the community. Well I can dream anyway.

ETA apologies for my stream of consciousness style comments at the moment. Fairly sleep deprived and often interrupted in writing by the 3 yr old or the twins.

[BlessaYourHeart]

10 minutes ago, EmainMacha said:

@BlessaYourHeart I'm sorry that you're effectively left without a voice in parliament now. It must be so frustrating. My heart went out to Mark Durkan when he apologised to John Hume for losing the seat. And your point about the Irish language act is true. I was being a bit simplistic about it. I remember the days when Thomas the Tank Engine on BBC in Irish garnered so many complaints they stopped showing it so again I'm stuck in the past a bit there!

It's interesting what you say about the younger generation perhaps being less dogmatic. The Lord Mayor of my council area just finished his term of office. He's a youngish fella and a bit 'alternative'. Certainly not the stereotype view of a Mayor. He was very active during his time in office. He's also from Sinn Fein.

There was a wee tribute video to him on Facebook on his last day. I was surprised and heartened to see the overwhelmingly positive comments about his tenure from people from both communities. It was also positive that people from Portadown Protestant backgrounds felt able to publicly praise a Sinn Fein mayor as there would have been a time when that would have been unthinkable.

So if some of the younger DUP people are less dogmatic in some areas it may be being reflected in Sinn Fein too. At least on a local level. Less 'both' communities and more 'the community. Well I can dream anyway.

ETA apologies for my stream of consciousness style comments at the moment. Fairly sleep deprived and often interrupted in writing by the 3 yr old or the twins.

Every time I see Durkan's election posters around the city my stomach sinks. I've met him and debated with him loads of times on many issues (I was involved in lots of youth things in my teens) we didn't agree on everything (I'm a massive advocate for integrated education and him not so much) but I always respected him because he truly wanted what was best for the city and kept the essence of Hume alive. I've heard even the most hardline unionists praise him. We felt that even though he was nationalist he still represented us and now all that is gone. Sinn Fein have never came near my neck of the woods but the SDLP did. 

I think there's a lot on hope for communication, compromise and better attitudes coming through in all of the younger generations of the main parties but particularly the DUP and Sinn Fein. 

Like your Sinn Fein mayor, our DUP MLA has support from all areas of the city because he's passionate about the city and has done so much to push for things the city needs. Many traditional nationionalists have went into his office and thanked him or pledged to give him their preference (after SDLP) in assembly elections. 

[sawasdee]

@BlessaYourHeartI owe you an apology for being so sweeping and stereotypical. It's a while since I visited NI, and I freely admit my last visit was marred by some rather unpleasant people - it happened to coincide with the 12th. I wasn't there by choice - it was work.

But I would like to explain the people who concern me.

Sammy Wilson, who is so vocal in his disbelief in climate change, but was appointed environment minister.

Mervyn Storey, Chair of the Education Committee, who is creationist, and VP of the Caleb Foundation - which claimed to have fought for non exclusively scientific based labelling for the dating of the Giant's Causeway, at the NT Visitor Centre. There are others, such as Poots, on record for creationism.

I also read recently that 40% of DUP members are in favour of creationism being taught in schools.

If I've got this all wrong, and am hopelessly outdated - please tell me! ( And I'll be very relieved). That's why I tagged you originally - to be corrected by Northern Irish residents!

 

[tropaka]

John Major has chimed in and is encouraging May to ditch the DUP deal over fears of restoking violence in Northern Ireland:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/election-2017-john-major-theresa-may-conservatives-dup-deal-violence-northern-ireland-a7787681.html

[BlessaYourHeart]

@sawasdee sorry for the late reply I had one typed out and forgot to click submit . 

Those that believe in creationism are in the minority. There is no threat to our education system from them because they do not have much support - even from those within their own party. Those who support creationism both in the party and in the public are usually Elim Pentecostal or Free Presbyterian or one of the other more fundamentalist churches as well as some from the Catholic Church. People have been vocal but it's never been a serious contender to be brought into the curriculum as fact in place of science. 

Also some who have lobbied for creationism can't be put in the same catergory as those like Storey. A lot, both Catholic and Protestant, have lobbied for it to be introduced alongside the current curriculum as another 'world view'. The same has been lobbied for my humanists for humanism. 

Northern Ireland is such a unique place. I think it's hard for people who have never lived here or spent a lot of time here to understand. We have a diverse and complicated political and social landscape. 

Not all within the DUP party come from the more fundamentalist churches. A lot of the new guard and some of the old guard come from your normal Christian background (Methodist, Presbyterian, Anglican etc) or none at all. Just like not all in Sinn Fein are hardline Catholics.