Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath

[Peas n carrots]

Tony Ortega seems to think the siting of Shelly Miscavige is the real deal. It sounds like she is in really bad shape. By the description alone it sounds like she is in her own special RPF.

[Palimpsest]

6 minutes ago, Rachel333 said:

I thought it was interesting that she never really lost faith in Scientology itself, just in the way the church was being run.

I think Leah has most deffnitely lost faith in Scientology.  I'm seeing where she is very aware of the con and free.  Marty Rathbun, not so much.  Mike Rinder, possibly.

The intro courses do teach some useful (manipulative) "how to run a cult" stuff on communication and lying (AKA conveying incorrect data effectively).

3 minutes ago, Peas n carrots said:

Tony Ortega seems to think the siting of Shelly Miscavige is the real deal. It sounds like she is in really bad shape.

I can't see how she could be in anything other than bad shape.

This is an extraordinarily destructive cult.  

[Rachel333]

2 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

I think Leah has most deffnitely lost faith in Scientology.  I'm seeing where she is very aware of the con and free.  Marty Rathbun, not so much.  Mike Rinder, possibly.

Yeah, now she has, but she talks about how her goal was to reform Scientology and even when she was criticizing the church in the years before her departure she still believed in what LRH taught.

[quiversR4hunting]

@KZK thank you for the info on the e-meter! I was happy to watch the 2 videos. Love how Co$, of course, says an engineer wouldn't know what they are talking about.

[Howl]

Just watched The Bridge episode;  powerful and very, very touching.   Mary Kahn became overwhelmed during her interview when talking about disconnection with her son, then Mike Rinder began sobbing, then Mary's husband and Leah began crying as well.  There is so much anguish for families that have been destroyed by disconnection.  

 

[PennySycamore]

I''m watching  the fourth episode right now.  At the moment, they're talking to Ron Miscaviage.  David's dad. 

[Imrlgoddess]

I'm catching up also, having watched the reruns yesterday & watching tonight.

The things these people discuss reminds me so much of the FLDS & some other extreme religious sects.  If you leave, speak out, define your own life... They attack. They protect the cult. It's frightening.  It's frightening because average people are so capable of getting caught up & held in these groups...these massive state wide, world wide, groups. 

[apple1]

9 hours ago, Imrlgoddess said:

It's frightening because average people are so capable of getting caught up & held in these groups...these massive state wide, world wide, groups. 

I have been watching this series in bits and pieces on satellite TV, when I am awake not being able to sleep at night (I know, bad idea).

Independent of this series - I have an adult sibling that we are suspecting has been and is involving herself with scientology. We are terrified and feel powerless to stop it. I keep hoping we are wrong in what we are suspecting.

[Imrlgoddess]

@apple1 I hope so too!  For her sake and your family's.  

[apple1]

11 minutes ago, Imrlgoddess said:

@apple1 I hope so too!  For her sake and your family's.  

Thank you. I very much want to be wrong on this. Hoping to get her into some psych care -- which is another whole problem, enough in itself. :-(

[Howl]

11 hours ago, Imrlgoddess said:

I'm catching up also, having watched the reruns yesterday & watching tonight.

The things these people discuss reminds me so much of the FLDS & some other extreme religious sects.  If you leave, speak out, define your own life... They attack. They protect the cult. It's frightening.  It's frightening because average people are so capable of getting caught up & held in these groups...these massive state wide, world wide, groups. 

Shunning (the same as disconnection in Scientology) is practiced in some Christian evangelical/fundamentalist churches.  Jehovah's Witnesses practice disfellowshipping.  It all works the same. 

[Imrlgoddess]

7 minutes ago, Howl said:

Shunning (the same as disconnection in Scientology) is practiced in some Christian evangelical/fundamentalist churches.  Jehovah's Witnesses practice disfellowshipping.  It all works the same. 

My daughter and I were talking about that last night, how the dynamics all basically match.  Even the Catholic church uses some form of denial as punishment, my mom and former mother in law were both denied communion.  My mother married a divorced non-Catholic man with children and my ex-mil became divorced herself.  My mom eventually got her sacrament back after pleading her case to a young, generous priest.  My ex mil however, never did.  She never had the (here again!) money...to pay for the expensive annulment the church wanted.  It's all a damn racket.  

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

I haven't seen the fourth one, but the first three are already telling me that Co$ is one scary organization.  I remember being curious about the "testing centre" (not sure what else to call it) that they had downtown here. They always had boards outside inviting you in for the free personality test. As teenagers we would dare each other to go and do it. Thank god nobody was stupid enough to actually go in.  Even then we thought it was just a front for a cult. 

The last show (Mary Kahn ) was pretty intense, especially that moment when everybody loses it.  What a piece of crap that "church" is to hurt so many people like that. 

I did wonder about two things.  How DO people come up with all the money to pay for all the things the church requires if it also requires such a significant time commitment too?  I can see taking a leave of absence once, maybe twice, to do a course, but it looked like there were endless levels of courses.  If the whole family is in, that's a lot of time and money.  I guess that's part of the draw of joining the Sea Org later on: they pay for everything. 

Leah has interviewed several people on the series at their homes. So far, these all look like fairly large homes in nice neighborhoods. Glad that people are doing well after leaving Scientology, but I'm curious about how they got back on their feet again given that some of them must have walked away with nothing. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, apple1 said:

Thank you. I very much want to be wrong on this. Hoping to get her into some psych care -- which is another whole problem, enough in itself. :-(

I truly hope she is not in Scientology.  It is incredibly hostile to psychiatry.

An older but good article by an ex-Scientologist gives some pointers about how to talk to Scientologists and some does and don'ts: http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/16.htm

Excerpt:

Quote

So, I think that you should talk with a Scientologist completely nonjudgmentally. Get them to talk about what they have observed themselves in fellow Scientologists, organizations, management and activities as compared to what they are given to believe from Hubbard’s writings and the promises of management. This way you open the door far enough that they will begin to read and compare the stories and experiences of ex-Scientologists with their own.

Once that happens, you can help them. But don’t push it on them. And then by reading actual documents such as Hubbard’s death certificate and the coroner’s report and toxic screen, the depositions in court testimony, police reports in the Lisa McPherson case, etc., they can begin to form a picture of what they were prevented from knowing. And choose.

So how do you talk to a Scientologist? With care and understanding. They found a reason to be in it. Give them the space and time and resources to find a reason to be out of it.

 

[Crocoduck]

Watched the 3rd episode yesterday. It brought back some memories of a time I was legitimately drawn to Co$. I've always been big on self-improvement and was doing a lot of reading of normal stuff like Dale Carnegie & Tony Robbins, but I also saw some stuff on Alternet (jeez am I old!) about the communications techniques taught by Co$. They had just started putting out some of their really basic materials on the net. I'm REALLY, REALLY glad I did not find it impressive enough to pursue!

I can honestly see how a person interested in self-improvement, and by extension helping others, can fall into the trap of this cult. If you don't know about the abuse, and the $$$ they extort from people, and the aliens clinging to your soul, and all the other craziness, it can look like a good deal - improve yourself, network, do good things for the planet. Thank the FSM for all the people who are exposing the dark underbelly.

[Howl]

In The Bridge episode, it was mentioned that people were expected to do whatever it took to pay for their courses to advance up the bridge.  Take out loans, get money from family members, borrow against the value of your house, take out credit card loans, WHATEVER IT TOOK is what was expected.  The other, if you'll pardon the expression, mind f**k is that a Co$ member could reach a certain point of progress up the Bridge, and then it would be decided (because of numerous fake reasons) that the person had to go back and start at the beginning, AND PAY FOR THE COURSES AND BOOKS ALL OVER AGAIN. 

Co$ is a very, very big business.  

Here's hoping that Shelley Miscavige is able to escape Co$ and not in a body bag.  It says a lot about Co$ that nobody can get to her to make direct contact.  As I noted upthread, the beginning of the end for Leah Remini was two words: "Where's Shelly?"

 

[PennySycamore]

@PreciousPantsofDoom, the first guy they talked to last night didn't appear affluent at all.  His stove looked like it had seen better days, for example.  I wish I could remember his name, but, among other things, he was tasked with interfering with the demonstrations after Lisa McPherson died, even if it meant he had to break up the sidewalks that people would be demonstrating on.  

[MamaJunebug]

A person also doesn't know how much of a home is really owned. For all we know, the Kahns and Rinders are leasing. 

Since I live under a rock, I was amazed to learn, back in the '00s, that people bought huge houses and paid only the interest on the mortgages, never intending to own the home free-and-clear, but to move on to another in a "keeping up appearances" scheme. 

(Chez Junebug is under such a small rock, and Big Mama and Daddy JB were such thorough teachers, that owning mortgage-free was never not my goal. But everybody's different. I don't criticize anyone for their choices as long as they don't expect me to support them.)

All that said, who knows how much the ex-Scienos actually are worth? Or started out with?   Remini has said she gave "millions" to the church but thanks to royalties from King of Queens plus whatever else she's doing, she's probably still a multi-millionaire. 

[Crocoduck]

8 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

[snipped]

Remini has said she gave "millions" to the church but thanks to royalties from King of Queens plus whatever else she's doing, she's probably still a multi-millionaire. 

I'm sure Leah Remini is doing just fine financially. I also suspect some of the higher ranking former members like Rinder and Rathbun are okay. They have skills that translate into other types of jobs. For example, Rinder was able to go from Co$ to selling cars, which I suspect he was pretty good at with his communication skills.

The ones I feel for are the Sea Org members who leave, never having gotten an education, getting paid nothing, having no real world job experience and no outside network to lean on. They are just like the fundie kids we fear for. Free the SeaOrg!!

[nolongerIFBx]

19 hours ago, Howl said:

Just watched The Bridge episode;  powerful and very, very touching.   Mary Kahn became overwhelmed during her interview when talking about disconnection with her son, then Mike Rinder began sobbing, then Mary's husband and Leah began crying as well.  There is so much anguish for families that have been destroyed by disconnection.  

 

It made me tear up too. I know someone earlier in this conversation said that they wished he would acknowledge/apologize for what he did, and someone else posted his post that he was sorry, but when he burst into a sob, you could feel it, He knew he had contributed to Mary's pain, he was part of it, and he could not make it better. That was real.

I knew the grief and guilt that he felt. I was writing stuff down fast and furiously. The theology might be different but so much in common with ATI/IBLP and IFB extremism. Leah says that it is so hard to try to explain to current victims why Co$ is so wrong and they just don't get it, "You're talking to people who don't realize they're victims." I've been on both sides of that scenario. And when you try to show them evidence--like showing an ATI member the Recovering Grace website--they say, "I don't need to see it; the Church told me what it said." and they never get that they only heard the Church's interpretation on what was written (lies, all lies!) rather than making their own determination because they think that the Church is protecting them from seeing something sinful by telling them what it says rather than actually looking at the evidence with their own eyes. She was asked what she missed the most and she said, "The promises that you have the answers to life. I miss the certainty." When we talk about the Duggars being smug, this is what you're seeing. They have all the answers. Everyone else is just sadly misled. I miss that certainty sometimes too.
 

[MamaJunebug]

3 hours ago, Crocoduck said:

I'm sure Leah Remini is doing just fine financially. I also suspect some of the higher ranking former members like Rinder and Rathbun are okay. They have skills that translate into other types of jobs. For example, Rinder was able to go from Co$ to selling cars, which I suspect he was pretty good at with his communication skills.

The ones I feel for are the Sea Org members who leave, never having gotten an education, getting paid nothing, having no real world job experience and no outside network to lean on. They are just like the fundie kids we fear for. Free the SeaOrg!!

Tom DeVocht!

Been reading about him for years ... heartcrushing to see a man realizing his life has been wasted. No education, certainly not a fine home, albeit clean and dry. Was the baby his? Talk about trying to catch up. Poor guy,  his sense of guilt. Bless him. 

[Peas n carrots]

Something is up with Marty Rathbun. Apparently he is unhappy with the Louis Theroux $ci film, and has come out against Ron Miscavige. Monique's lawsuit has also stopped dead in its tracks.

[quiversR4hunting]

1 hour ago, Peas n carrots said:

Something is up with Marty Rathbun. Apparently he is unhappy with the Louis Theroux $ci film, and has come out against Ron Miscavige. Monique's lawsuit has also stopped dead in its tracks.

Sorry, I'm lost. What website has the info about Marty and Theroux and who is Monique?

[Palimpsest]

16 minutes ago, quiversR4hunting said:

Sorry, I'm lost. What website has the info about Marty and Theroux and who is Monique?

Marty Rathbun (who supposedly blew) is attacking Scientology critics all over the place.  I posted a couple of links upthread although I don't know what @Peas n carrots had in mind.  Rathbun is not to be trusted.  

Monique is Monique Rathbun.  Marty's new wife.  She filed suit against Co$ for harassment but ..

http://www.houstonpress.com/news/another-scientology-lawsuit-meets-a-strange-abrupt-end-in-texas-8424797

My guess is that Rathbun is back in Co$.  Just like Tommy Davis.

 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, Peas n carrots said:

Something is up with Marty Rathbun. Apparently he is unhappy with the Louis Theroux $ci film, and has come out against Ron Miscavige. Monique's lawsuit has also stopped dead in its tracks.

The abrupt termination of Monique's lawsuit was bizarre.  IIRC, They were just where they wanted to be legally, to get to court finally and she just dropped it.  Her lawyers claim they were fired.  She claims her lawyers said the suit achieved what it set out to do legally, and there was no need to move forward.  Tony Ortega discussed it in detail here: http://tonyortega.org/2016/05/12/monique-rathbun-formally-ends-her-lawsuit-in-texas-ken-dandar-wins-again-in-florida/