Another Duggar courting- Joy and Austin, Pt3

[marmalade]

2 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

I think they've said no hand holding before engagement. They didn't say anything about waiting til' marriage.  i think they just wanted to make a point that they wouldn't be going as far as Jinger.

That's what I understood too, although it's been a few weeks since that article was first posted. I think the "broken rules" referred to JinJer's front hugging. It sounds like Joy and Austin are going back to the model all of her other engaged siblings employed. 

Just spare us hand sex on camera, TLC, please. That is, if they even have enough chemistry to even think about that. It took Jessa MONTHS to warm up to Ben, and that's why I really think that courtship dragged out for 11 months. I mean, Mechelle had to lecture Jessa on how to act all doe-eyed and simpering for your man to make him feel special. Jessa does it, but you know, not all women are natural simperers like, say Jill or Anna. Joy? She'll do as she's told. 

[eveandadam]

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

So I want to talk about the whole no hand holding before marriage thing. 

On another thread I predicted the fundies would keep trying to one up each other with the strict courtship rules until a dude doesn't even look at his wife until his first child is born. I was joking but these fundies want To outdo one another in a such competitive way. Like who can have the most self control. Joy is going to win as the most pure before marriage. Barf. I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a couple in the Duggar circle not even touching at all before marriage.  No side hug, no hand holding, no shoulder touching, nothing.  

I doubt it's that hard to not touch your bf if your relationship is very short before they get married. And don't live in the same town. 

Actually this is not very uncommon in their circles. There where two documentaries about the Wilson family, who introduced the purity ball thing in the 90's. Randy Wilson also works for the FRC in Washington. When the eldest daughter was interviewed in their first documentary she said that they weren't even holding hands before marriage and had no physical contact whatsoever. Instead of loosening the courtship rules I can also see the Duggars going the opposite direction and restrict the whole courtship/engagement process to no physical contact at all.

I think I can list the "breaking" of courtship rules as follows:

Josh and Anna: no Duggar courtship rules broken

Jill and Derick: accidentally front hugging at the airport before engagement (Michelle: "we'll make sure that won't happen again!"

Ben and Jessa: hand holding the day before engagement, for prayer

Jinger and Jeremy: front hugging and "cuddling" before engagement, definitaly front hugging and extensive cuddling while engaged. + hand holding of course

[Incognito22]

8 hours ago, eveandadam said:

Actually this is not very uncommon in their circles. There where two documentaries about the Wilson family, who introduced the purity ball thing in the 90's. Randy Wilson also works for the FRC in Washington. When the eldest daughter was interviewed in their first documentary she said that they weren't even holding hands before marriage and had no physical contact whatsoever. Instead of loosening the courtship rules I can also see the Duggars going the opposite direction and restrict the whole courtship/engagement process to no physical contact at all.

I think I can list the "breaking" of courtship rules as follows:

Josh and Anna: no Duggar courtship rules broken

Jill and Derick: accidentally front hugging at the airport before engagement (Michelle: "we'll make sure that won't happen again!"

Ben and Jessa: hand holding the day before engagement, for prayer

Jinger and Jeremy: front hugging and "cuddling" before engagement, definitaly front hugging and extensive cuddling while engaged. + hand holding of course

I'm gonna have to disagree on the no courtship rules broken for Josh and Anna.  That hand sex was way more defrauding than any of the others. I wasn't even there and I found myself looking away from the TV out of embarrassment.  Body fluids definitely exchanged.  Maybe it was only hand sweat but it was sooooooo not G rated

[SilverBeach]

16 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

I think they've said no hand holding before engagement. They didn't say anything about waiting til' marriage.  i think they just wanted to make a point that they wouldn't be going as far as Jinger.

Which wasn't very far. What the hell is wrong with normal hand holding? I'm not referring to hand sex, even though the dugs were ok with it, WTF.

[Incognito22]

Their concerns are so bizarre and misguided.  Their son touching their daughters is something they didn't make sure "would never happen again" but they girls can't hold hands with someone they are considering marrying!?!

[Lurky]

18 hours ago, justmy2cents said:

i think they just wanted to make a point that they wouldn't be going as far as Jinger.

I got the impression Joy was not a massive Jinger fan, from the recaps here - a bit of snark about Jinger being in another world cos she's courting ("but maybe I'll be just as bad", which seems even more snarky in the context of her being on the "slow track" while JinJer were on the "fast track" etc) and the fact she seemed grumpy on JinJer's wedding day etc etc. 

It makes sense that kids in a huge family have un-favourite as well as favourite siblings, and with Joy being so much Jill's sister-daughter, and then the tomboy who wished she could play with the boys more, I can definitely see how she'd take against Jessa-Jinger. It must be so much harder, sharing a room, and having to keep sweet all the time, because the occasional fight is much more healthy to me.   But with Jill and Jessa out of the house, and the whole pressure on Joy not to be a tomboy, I can see why she and Jinger might annoy each other more than when they could avoid each other more.

[marmalade]

2 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

Which wasn't very far. What the hell is wrong with normal hand holding? I'm not referring to hand sex, even though the dugs were ok with it, WTF.

I believe Joy's quote referred to the front hugging, not the hand holding. Joy indicated that they'll hold hands after engagement, but nothing else other than side hugs. 

[SilverBeach]

3 hours ago, marmalade said:

I believe Joy's quote referred to the front hugging, not the hand holding. Joy indicated that they'll hold hands after engagement, but nothing else other than side hugs. 

Normal hand holding should be ok even while a-courtin', good grief.

[caitiedid313]

Normal hand holding should be ok even while a-courtin', good grief.

But *gasp*, then desires would be stirred up that could not be righteously fulfilled. Handholding is just as defrauding as showing your knees! [emoji849]

[goldengrove]

7 minutes ago, caitiedid313 said:

But *gasp*, then desires would be stirred up that could not be righteously fulfilled. Handholding is just as defrauding as showing your knees!

well put

now is as good as any to ask:  I just don't understand this use of the word "defraud"...are the fundies just applying their own meaning (connotation)?

[Nicole Jinger Duggar]

Reminds me of my fundie days (or I guess fundie light). Something came up about a couple holding a handkerchief between their hands instead of direct contact for walks or something, talked about like it was a commendable idea. (But people also thought using a fan to hide a first kiss at a wedding was a good idea...I guess Blessa beat that)

[Bethella]

15 minutes ago, goldengrove said:

well put

now is as good as any to ask:  I just don't understand this use of the word "defraud"...are the fundies just applying their own meaning (connotation)?

Fundies use defraud to refer to "stirring up desires that can't be righteously fulfilled." In this case- the courting couple holding hands would cause sexual desire between them and they can't righteously fulfill those desires because they aren't married yet.

[HereticHick]

On 12/11/2016 at 9:23 AM, eleanora3 said:

It's really interesting that the Duggar girls all married husbands who went into seminary/missionary work (whether it was before or after the marriage). The Bates girls' husbands all have actual non-religious jobs. I wonder why that is?

Correction: Michael Bates Keilen's husband Brandon has a "seminary degree" from a Gothard school and has been employed at Gothard headquarters ever since. 

[SilverBeach]

15 hours ago, Nicole Jinger Duggar said:

Reminds me of my fundie days (or I guess fundie light). Something came up about a couple holding a handkerchief between their hands instead of direct contact for walks or something, talked about like it was a commendable idea. (But people also thought using a fan to hide a first kiss at a wedding was a good idea...I guess Blessa beat that)

One of the stupidest things I have ever heard.

[Four is Enough]

Lord Love a Duck. Hold a hankie between your hands. I guess that's like leaving room for the holy spirit. We used to do that at our CYO dances, back in Catholic school. We had to leave room between our fronts for the Holy Spirit...

[choralcrusader8613]

9 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Lord Love a Duck. Hold a hankie between your hands. I guess that's like leaving room for the holy spirit. We used to do that at our CYO dances, back in Catholic school. We had to leave room between our fronts for the Holy Spirit...

Re: bolded: I remember that at public school, teachers (and peers) saying, "Leave room for Jesus!" at school dances.

[goldengrove]

3 minutes ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Re: bolded: I remember that at public school, teachers (and peers) saying, "Leave room for Jesus!" at school dances.

honestly, I think I might have preferred dancing with Jesus to all the public school junior high boys trying to climb all over me >_> long ago and far away, thank doG!!!

[December]

19 hours ago, Nicole Jinger Duggar said:

Reminds me of my fundie days (or I guess fundie light). Something came up about a couple holding a handkerchief between their hands instead of direct contact for walks or something, talked about like it was a commendable idea.

 

 

That's amusing and sad at the same time. Talk about giving people a warped sense of personal boundaries and sexuality.

11 minutes ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Re: bolded: I remember that at public school, teachers (and peers) saying, "Leave room for Jesus!" at school dances.

 

I wish more people at my school dances had left some room for whatever deity they felt an affinity with. Let's just say many people went far beyond "close dancing" in front of unwilling spectators!

[choralcrusader8613]

27 minutes ago, December said:

I wish more people at my school dances had left some room for whatever deity they felt an affinity with. Let's just say many people went far beyond "close dancing" in front of unwilling spectators!

That's festive (and part of the reason we had teachers doing that)

[MarblesMom]

5 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Lord Love a Duck. Hold a hankie between your hands.

And keep an aspirin between your knees!!

[goldengrove]

4 minutes ago, MarblesMom said:

And keep an aspirin between your knees!!

heheh...in my day, it was a nickel

[HarleyQuinn]

5 hours ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Re: bolded: I remember that at public school, teachers (and peers) saying, "Leave room for Jesus!" at school dances.

 I had a jr high teacher that would yell that at us at dances. He was kidding, and we laughed, but I imagine there's a lot of people that would say that and actually mean it. 

[missegeno]

I wish more people at my school dances had left some room for whatever deity they felt an affinity with. Let's just say many people went far beyond "close dancing" in front of unwilling spectators!

I'm sorry. I was that person. :-(

[nolongerIFBx]

On 12/18/2016 at 3:46 AM, eveandadam said:

Actually this is not very uncommon in their circles. There where two documentaries about the Wilson family, who introduced the purity ball thing in the 90's. Randy Wilson also works for the FRC in Washington. When the eldest daughter was interviewed in their first documentary she said that they weren't even holding hands before marriage and had no physical contact whatsoever. Instead of loosening the courtship rules I can also see the Duggars going the opposite direction and restrict the whole courtship/engagement process to no physical contact at all.

In the IFB extremism I grew up in it was zero contact until the marriage altar. There was a six inch rule (see Kristina- http://kristinaskeeps.blogspot.com/2009/02/obeying-6-rule.html). This is based on the verse "Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman." (1 Corinthians 7:1) which is only interpreted "touch" in the KJV.

[emscm]

22 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

Lord Love a Duck. Hold a hankie between your hands. I guess that's like leaving room for the holy spirit. We used to do that at our CYO dances, back in Catholic school. We had to leave room between our fronts for the Holy Spirit...

 

22 hours ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

Re: bolded: I remember that at public school, teachers (and peers) saying, "Leave room for Jesus!" at school dances.

Lol, yup definitely heard both of these at Catholic school. Funny enough, I remember going to dances at both Catholic and public schools during high school and the Catholic school dances were the ones that people tended to go buck wild at moreso than public school dances.