RC Sproul Jr, 2016 MERGED

[Schmoopy]

23 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

Frankly? Jr. looks the same to me. In the past there were a lot of photos of Jr. smiling for the camera with his hipstery craft brews, and a lot of warm and tender sermons about his love for his family. And simultaneously he was writing books about how divorce is SATAN and women putting off having kids is BLASPHEMY and anyone who doesn't have a beard and six kids is a SODOMITE. So a couple of #blessed selfies aren't doing much to convince me that he's "changed."

What DWT was insinuating was that, far from feeling unable to express his "true self", Jr. has been consistently coddled and indulged his whole life by people kowtowing to his famous family name. These people agreed with everything he said (no matter how wrongheaded) and praised him for everything he did (no matter how dangerous.) He has very much been treated like a "Precious" by the people around him.

Sure you do! In fact, there's this dude named RC Sproul Jr. who used to write about how it's OK if women aren't taught to read because chores and childcare are all they're really good for! Heck, the early working title for "Biblical patriarchy" was "men bashing women, Bible-style."

Show me where he wrote it.

[nickelodeon]

Sproul, Robert Craig, Jr. When You Rise Up: A Covenantal Approach to Homeschooling. P & R Publishing, 2004. 110-112.

[Schmoopy]

I have read that book and I do not remember him saying anything even remotely close to that.  I do recall a story about a mom whose young dtr didn't yet know how to read, but could help mom with chores and younger siblings and RCJR eluded that there should not be pressure upon the mom to meet some worldly standard. The book affirmed it was important for her to read and that she would learn to read. Your contention may be a little more than snark and a lot more towards slander.

Didn't we just see Delaney just graduate from RBC? She's 18yo. Didn't Darby graduate from there also? 

[nickelodeon]

The "worldly standard" that kids shouldn't be too busy raising their siblings to practice basic literacy...?

Of course Junior couches this illustration in all sorts of qualifications about how education is well and good, but you don't have to be Stanley Fish to deduce that he's setting up a bizarre dichotomy where women who are more interested in having an interior life than changing diapers are "unnatural."

Quote

Would I rather be married to a godly woman who was comparatively ignorant, or a wicked person who was terribly bright? Who would make a better wife and mother, someone who doesn’t know infra- from supralapsarianism, but does know which side is up on a diaper, or a woman about to defend her dissertation on the eschatology of John Gill at Cambridge but one who thinks children are unpleasant? It’s no contest, is it?

Note that he doesn't take into account that there may be more to a woman's life than the possibility of being married to Spanky Sproul. 

[Schmoopy]

Dear Poster- Why does that quote mean that to you? It's a Homeschooling book written to encourage Homeschoolers from a biblical perspective- it's doesn't down grade women. Many homeschool moms do not have secondary education themselves and it's an encouragement  to them. What he saying is his standard is not that a woman be an Einstein, nor pressured to be that. My takeaway is he would rather a woman love children and not be an egghead than be an egghead and not love children. He didn't say stupid is better than smart. 

[Palimpsest]

56 minutes ago, Schmoopy said:

Didn't we just see Delaney just graduate from RBC? She's 18yo. Didn't Darby graduate from there also? 

If her LinkedIn profile is to be believed Delaney has an Associate's degree from RBC.  She actually "graduated" with a Mrs.  We just saw Delaney get married to JTits Phillips. Was he cradle robbing?  We are still wondering whether disgraced Spanky and Lisa were invited to the wedding.

Spanky's children:  Darby, Campbell, Shannon (died 2012 aged 16), Delaney, Erin Claire, Maili, Reilly, and Donovan.

I really can't remember how old Delaney is, but if she is only 18 it would also imply that Spanky has two more underage children.  Is dear saintly Lisa also 'mothering' Erin and Maili.  

What is Campbell doing these days?

[nickelodeon]

Must be my basic reading comprehension speaking, Schmoop.

Spanky is the one who, apropos of nothing, makes the equation that literate women = women who dislike children. "Keep 'em dumb and subservient" isn't even subtext in this passage. It's text.

[Schmoopy]

 

31 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

If her LinkedIn profile is to be believed Delaney has an Associate's degree from RBC.  She actually "graduated" with a Mrs.  We just saw Delaney get married to JTits Phillips. Was he cradle robbing?  We are still wondering whether disgraced Spanky and Lisa were invited to the wedding.

Spanky's children:  Darby, Campbell, Shannon (died 2012 aged 16), Delaney, Erin Claire, Maili, Reilly, and Donovan.

I really can't remember how old Delaney is, but if she is only 18 it would also imply that Spanky has two more underage children.  Is dear saintly Lisa also 'mothering' Erin and Maili.  

What is Campbell doing these days?

Isn't Spanky on probation? Perhaps he wasn't allowed to leave the state. Some probations allow and some do not. Just a thought. 

 

[Quinquagenarian]

1 minute ago, Schmoopy said:

Isn't Spanky on probation? Perhaps he wasn't allowed to leave the state. Some probations allow and some do not. Just a th

Most would permit special permission for daughter's wedding. 

[Schmoopy]

21 minutes ago, nickelodeon said:

Must be my basic reading comprehension speaking, Schmoop.

Spanky is the one who, apropos of nothing, makes the equation that literate women = women who dislike children. "Keep 'em dumb and subservient" isn't even subtext in this passage. It's text.

I just pulled out my old copy of Rise Up.  If you have a copy, look at pg 111-113. He affirms the importance of reading. He affirms the virtue of Priscilla educating Apollos. He says, "Naturally, we want everything. We want all the virtues to the highest degree."  Your quotes and your assessment left all that out.  This is text, not subtext.

7 minutes ago, Quinquagenarian said:

Most would permit special permission for daughter's wedding. 

Ah. Yes, I suppose most would.

[Palimpsest]

2 minutes ago, Quinquagenarian said:

Most would permit special permission for daughter's wedding. 

Quite.  If he had been invited.  But that reminds me: 

Spanky Sproul, loving father of 7 (living children) had already scarpered off to Indiana and married his "soulmate" Lisa when he was caught, pissed as a newt and drunk as a skunk, driving a car with Reilly and Donovan on board. 

I'm not holding Lisa responsible for Spanky's drunk driving, but did she know what she had married?  Or was it a horrid surprise?

I really want to know - where were, or are, Erin Claire and Maili?  With Darby?  With Delaney?  With Sproul Senior?  Does Spanky give a shit?

And to answer my own question, Campbell is in Reno, Nevada.  He seems to be working for an employment agency.  I hope everything works out for him and his family, and that he is coping well with the dx of bipolar disorder.  He has had a really terrible time too.

[nickelodeon]

19 minutes ago, Schmoopy said:

He affirms the importance of reading. He affirms the virtue of Priscilla educating Apollos. He says, "Naturally, we want everything. We want all the virtues to the highest degree."  Your quotes and your assessment left all that out.  This is text, not subtext.

Nah I mentioned that stuff above.

[Schmoopy]

42 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Quite.  If he had been invited.  But that reminds me: 

Spanky Sproul, loving father of 7 (living children) had already scarpered off to Indiana and married his "soulmate" Lisa when he was caught, pissed as a newt and drunk as a skunk, driving a car with Reilly and Donovan on board. 

I'm not holding Lisa responsible for Spanky's drunk driving, but did she know what she had married?  Or was it a horrid surprise?

I really want to know - where were, or are, Erin Claire and Maili?  With Darby?  With Delaney?  With Sproul Senior?  Does Spanky give a shit?

And to answer my own question, Campbell is in Reno, Nevada.  He seems to be working for an employment agency.  I hope everything works out for him and his family, and that he is coping well with the dx of bipolar disorder.  He has had a really terrible time too.

Sounds like you already know about Campbell, since you answered your own question.  Where was Campbell noted to have mental issues? Isn't he newly married? Yowsa!

By all pictures posted on FB, looks like Erin Claire and Molly are with second mom and dad and the boys. IN?

[FundieFarmer]

23 hours ago, Schmoopy said:

Secondly, perhaps scriptural references are parables to ears of those who lack a foundation in scripture. To those, I can understand why you might wonder if English is a second language. Context may clear lack of understanding.  

I suppose I took the assumption by many of the contributing snarks, that many have a church background.

There's a flaw in your logic, preached by RC & Burk themselves. Just because one has a church background, or education in the church, doesn't mean the parable has necessarily fallen on good soil. It may fall on thorny ground or the path. 

You would be needing to look not for the Biblical quotes themselves, but for demonstration of faith and fertile soil.

Rest assured, I have sat through many a Reformed sermon and I rest in the assurances by St Paul that by grace and grace alone I am saved. Sola fide, sola gratia, sola Christus. The confusion with your posts has nothing to do with the parables or Bible verses therein.

Also. Many women wear hats as head coverings. Sproul Sr. has considered "bonnets" to be appropriate signs of submission in church. The Bible, as I'm sure you know, doesn't outline *what* a headcovering is, which is why there's so much debate about it. However, in Sproul Sr.'s church there is a proliferation of women in hats, knitted caps, and scarves as he has asked for heads to be covered. Not all women cover, but all coverings are considered acceptable. Hats most certainly count.

Also #2. Plenty of men bash women. You need only turn on the news to watch it.

Also #3. Recent sightings of Darby and Sr. Sproul family attest that no minor Spanky kids are living with them.

[MamaJunebug]

8 hours ago, Schmoopy said:

Llol. You do not tend to hear men bashing women.  Not stereotyping, just statics.

WHAT?!?!? Get over to Quiverfull Of Misogyny  and get yourself educated, @Schmoopy!!!!!!

ETA if you want to keep it in the church context, read up on the blatherscribblings Of Doug Wilson, who calls women he doesn’t like “small-breasted biddies” or John Piper, who laments women with muscle tone and counsels that a woman can endure physical marital abuse “for a season”, all for the cause of — not Christ! — Piper’s grossout little fantasy world. 

8 hours ago, Schmoopy said:

One thing you can be sure of is I'm a fan of happy endings.  I hope it's only up hill for the blissful couple. No more drama.

I hope those little boys get an "adult" mother who can make a difference in their lives. They've definitely had a mess prior to this.

Oh. No. You. Didn’t. 

Did you just say that the late Mrs. Sproul was not an “adult”? That her home was “a mess”?

 

[older than allosaurs]

2 hours ago, Schmoopy said:

  Where was Campbell noted to have mental issues? Isn't he newly married? Yowsa!

 

He blogs about his experience with depression and bipolar disorder and how that, plus his continuing grief over his mother's death, have made it impossible for him to care adequately for his wife.

[MamaJunebug]

4 hours ago, Schmoopy said:

 

I have read that book and I do not remember him saying anything even remotely close to that.

 

Seriously, @Schmoopy?

Seriously?

You challenged @nickelodeon to “show [you] where Sproul wrote it,” s/he gave you page numbers, for cryin out loud, and you respond that you read the book and don’t remember that being in it? Truly, that’s your response?!

i know!  I think you’re Steve Maxwell!!!!

How’s the weather in Leavenworth? 

3 hours ago, Schmoopy said:

 

Isn't Spanky on probation? Perhaps he wasn't allowed to leave the state. Some probations allow and some do not. Just a thought. 

 

As I recall, he got off without having to attend AA or another form of rehab and without any electronic monitoring and without a probationary period. I may recall incorrectly, but there was astonishment here at the lightness of the consequences.  

In fact, if he was restricted from driving for a time, he and Saint Lisa made a mockery of that by posting a selfie of themselves in the Car, she in the passenger’s seat and he at the wheel. 

[Schmoopy]

49 minutes ago, older than allosaurs said:

He blogs about his experience with depression and bipolar disorder and how that, plus his continuing grief over his mother's death, have made it impossible for him to care adequately for his wife.

At what point does the death of a parent as an adult become an excuse? Six years?  Not to be insensitive, but this is enabling at its worst.  I hope he's in counseling and all the rest of them for that matter.  That should have started when the parent"s" took ill over ten years ago. 

[older than allosaurs]

From Tenets of Biblical Patriarchy, which R.C. Jr. helped write:

Men & Women: Spheres of Dominion

12. While men are called to public spheres of dominion beyond the home, their dominion begins within the home, and a man’s qualification to lead and ability to lead well in the public square is based upon his prior success in ruling his household. (Mal. 4:6; Eph. 6:4; 1 Tim. 3:5)

13. Since the woman was created as a helper to her husband, as the bearer of children, and as a “keeper at home,” the God-ordained and proper sphere of dominion for a wife is the household and that which is connected with the home, although her domestic calling, as a representative of and helper to her husband, may well involve activity in the marketplace and larger community. (Gen. 2:18ff.; Prov. 31:10-31; Tit. 2:4-5)

14. While unmarried women may have more flexibility in applying the principle that women were created for a domestic calling, it is not the ordinary and fitting role of women to work alongside men as their functional equals in public spheres of dominion (industry, commerce, civil government, the military, etc.). The exceptional circumstance (singleness) ought not redefine the ordinary, God-ordained social roles of men and women as created. (Gen. 2:18ff.; Josh. 1:14; Jdg. 4; Acts 16:14)

 

posted by Vision Forum, May 11, 2013

[Schmoopy]

4 minutes ago, older than allosaurs said:

From Tenets of Biblical Patriarchy, which R.C. Jr. helped write:

Men & Women: Spheres of Dominion

12. While men are called to public spheres of dominion beyond the home, their dominion begins within the home, and a man’s qualification to lead and ability to lead well in the public square is based upon his prior success in ruling his household. (Mal. 4:6; Eph. 6:4; 1 Tim. 3:5)

13. Since the woman was created as a helper to her husband, as the bearer of children, and as a “keeper at home,” the God-ordained and proper sphere of dominion for a wife is the household and that which is connected with the home, although her domestic calling, as a representative of and helper to her husband, may well involve activity in the marketplace and larger community. (Gen. 2:18ff.; Prov. 31:10-31; Tit. 2:4-5)

14. While unmarried women may have more flexibility in applying the principle that women were created for a domestic calling, it is not the ordinary and fitting role of women to work alongside men as their functional equals in public spheres of dominion (industry, commerce, civil government, the military, etc.). The exceptional circumstance (singleness) ought not redefine the ordinary, God-ordained social roles of men and women as created. (Gen. 2:18ff.; Josh. 1:14; Jdg. 4; Acts 16:14)

 

posted by Vision Forum, May 11, 2013

Hence, Vision Forum is no more. However, you might just win me over on this one. 

[Pianokeeper]

28 minutes ago, Schmoopy said:

At what point does the death of a parent as an adult become an excuse? Six years?  Not to be insensitive, but this is enabling at its worst.  I hope he's in counseling and all the rest of them for that matter.  That should have started when the parent"s" took ill over ten years ago. 

Pretty sure that the spouse of a person arrested for a DUI with small children in the car is more likely to be an enabler than whatever phantom person you believe to be causing someone to grieve their own mother's death. 

We can't know for sure, of course, but you said yourself you're a fan of statistics, right?

[laPapessaGiovanna]

4 hours ago, Schmoopy said:

Hence, Vision Forum is no more. However, you might just win me over on this one. 

VF is no more because its leader was proved a molester not because someone suddenly realised they were spouting abhorrent thoughts.

[Schmoopy]

7 hours ago, Pianokeeper said:

Pretty sure that the spouse of a person arrested for a DUI with small children in the car is more likely to be an enabler than whatever phantom person you believe to be causing someone to grieve their own mother's death. 

We can't know for sure, of course, but you said yourself you're a fan of statistics, right?

I am a fan of statistics, this is true. Saintly Lisa, wasn't in the vehicle. Saintly Lisa, isn't using excuses to blow up her life. She married and who knows if she knew or not, but she doesn't drink- at least in her hundreds of photos and now supposedly he doesn't drink now.  Spanky stopped bad habits.

Using an excuses is what enables. Continuing enables.  

But, it's always easier to blame others. 

What a novel idea that someone actually get help and stopping using "excuses" to not care for his wife. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

If a snake tried to follow a path as convoluted as your reasoning it would break its spine.

25 minutes ago, Schmoopy said:

What a novel idea that someone actually get help and stopping using "excuses" to not care for his wife. 

Call me if he starts driving under influence and put his children's and other drivers life in life threatening danger. Oh I forgot you don't even need to make up excuses for that.

[Schmoopy]

8 hours ago, Pianokeeper said:

Pretty sure that the spouse of a person arrested for a DUI with small children in the car is more likely to be an enabler than whatever phantom person you believe to be causing someone to grieve their own mother's death. 

We can't know for sure, of course, but you said yourself you're a fan of statistics, right?

I am a fan of statistics, this is true. Saintly Lisa, wasn't in the vehicle. Saintly Lisa, isn't using excuses to blow up her life. She married and who knows if she knew or not, but she doesn't drink- at least in her hundreds of photos and now supposedly he doesn't drink now.  Spanky stopped bad habits.

Using an excuses is what enables. Continuing enables.  

But, it's always easier to blame- 

1 hour ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

If a snake tried to follow a path as convoluted as your reasoning it would break its spine.

Call me if he starts driving under influence and put his children's and other drivers life in life threatening danger. Oh I forgot you don't even need to make up excuses for that.

The logic is past vs present. Call me when you can be logical.