Jinger's going to the chapel and gonna get married...

[Palimpsest]

33 minutes ago, eveandadam said:

And yes to the poster that said that not all people on freejinger disapprove of their lifestyle. I'm kind of neutral and for me it's a completely different culture, so very interesting. I don't want to judge (But I do know the reasons why people disapprove with that lifestyle)

I think the Admin who said that could have added the word "unfortunately" when she said that not everyone on FJ disapproves of their lifestyle.

 We are not a Duggar fan site.  We exist to focus on the flaws of Fundamentalism

I realize that English is not your first language and that you probably are not from the US. However, you have been a member for a couple of months now and should do more reading before you pride yourself on not judging a dangerous cult.

[formergothardite]

Being apathetic towards systematic abuse isn't really anything to be proud of. I'm hoping @eveandadam is just unaware of what people like the Duggars and Bates believe and isn't really refusing to judge a system of abuse. 

[eveandadam]

12 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Being apathetic towards systematic abuse isn't really anything to be proud of. I'm hoping @eveandadam is just unaware of what people like the Duggars and Bates believe and isn't really refusing to judge a system of abuse. 

I'm truely sorry to hear that you suffered in that system. I see why it can take abusive forms easily because abusive people are often attracted by those cults. But it does not necessarly mean that a strict christian upbringing has to be abusive per se. I was brought up extremly strictly but without religion and it took some forms of abuse, too.

I am trying to see a strong christian believe in a neutral way. Not all strict believers (of any religion) are abusive or feel supperiour towards others.

I disapprove of the abusive side of the Duggars and Bates, of course. But there are good values, too.

[Palimpsest]

1 minute ago, eveandadam said:

But it does not necessarly mean that a strict christian upbringing has to be abusive per se.

And I think many people here would agree with that.  Many of our members identify as Christian.

We are trying to explain to you that the Christian Patriarchal Movement, and the Quiverfull subset of that movement, is a twisted and corrupt form of false Christianity.  It denigrates women and, in practice, engenders, encourages, and covers up the systematic abuse of women and children.

What good values do you see the Duggars holding or, more correctly, what good values do they actually practice instead of just preaching them?

[formergothardite]

You realize of course, that this isn't a strict Christian upbringing, don't you? This is a cult that every part of it is saturated in abuse or covering up abuse. Tell me, what are the good values of IBLP that make you feel neutral towards it? What good values haven't been tainted by their horrific teachings? 

People have killed themselves over the things done to them by this system you want to remain neutral about. It is rather disheartening for all the victims of IBLP to see people want to ignore the abuse and just remain neutral. Any "good" the cult does cannot make up for the bad. 

[JesSky03]

I think something you have to keep in mind, is that most of the good we see from the Duggar's has been fabricated for TV. I remember when I first started watching the Duggar's I was jealous of their lifestyle. I remember telling my husband I wish I could do all the things they do and have a tight knit family like that. I wish my faith was as strong as theirs. I wish I was debt free, etc.  But then as I watched more and more I noticed little things that made me suspicious that something wasn't right until I finally decided to google if the Duggar's were part of a cult. Suddenly everything that I was jealous of became a red flag. I was seeing it all in a new light and it was not pretty. Sometimes you have to remind yourself we aren't seeing the real family or their real lifestyle. What we see on TV is just a rose colored view of a scary and abusive cult. 

[Bad Wolf]

Hmm. Positive things about the Duggars:

Servant's heart = service projects only when the cameras are rolling.

Modest dress = modifying normal clothes to show how pure they are, rather than buying something  suitable in the first place. Shaming a little one because she took off her jacket and exposed her arms. Etc., etc.

Honesty = hiding your son's problems and allowing others to think that he is blameless.

Generosity = giving away donuts that you grifted, and taking a picture so everyone knows how virtuous you are.

Compassion = filming your child's potty accidents. Showing your children in pain after falling or having medical procedures.

I could go on, but I think this shows how virtuous the Duggars really are.

And I know, because I'm a certified expert in everything. 

[VelociRapture]

57 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Hmm. Positive things about the Duggars:

Servant's heart = service projects only when the cameras are rolling. Or thinking that harassing innocent people (and not actually helping them) in Central America is Jesus approved.

Modest dress = modifying normal clothes to show how pure they are, rather than buying something  suitable in the first place - aka. Utterly annihilating perfectly good wedding dresses because speshul snowflake (RIP dresses of Erin Bates Paine, Michael Bates Keilen, and, to a lesser extent, Jill Duggar Dillard.) Shaming a little one because she took off her jacket and exposed her arms. Etc., etc. 

Honesty = hiding your son's problems and allowing others to think that he is blameless. Telling your daughters they were molested because they somehow tempted their brother, not because he's an ass who couldn't keep his hands to himself and your parents are worthless fucks who refuse to protect you.

Generosity = giving away donuts that you grifted, and taking a picture so everyone knows how virtuous you are. Showing how Godly you are by gifting a useless gigantic teddy bear to a home for troubled soon-to-be-moms instead of opening your fat wallet and giving some money... Probably because Josh spent it all on Ashley Madison.

Compassion = filming your child's potty accidents. Showing your children in pain after falling or having medical procedures. Raising your children to think girls are 100% responsible for avoiding sexual assault because boys are horny monsters who can't be held accountable for their own goddamn actions. And then continuing to teach them that after you know four of your daughters were assaulted by their brother.

I could go on, but I think this shows how virtuous the Duggars really are.

And I know, because I'm a certified expert in everything. 

Hope you don't mind, but I helped. Gold star for VelociRapture! 

[Bad Wolf]

12 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Hope you don't mind, but I helped. Gold star for VelociRapture! 

I'd forgotten the stupid teddy bear. Thanks for the help.

[formergothardite]

4 hours ago, eveandadam said:

I disapprove of the abusive side of the Duggars and Bates, of course. But there are good values, too.

Almost nothing is 100% evil. Refusing to judge an abusive lifestyle because there is a shred of good is basically turning a blind eye to the abuse. Remaining neutral over a system of abuse helps no one. 

[sophie10130]

2 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Almost nothing is 100% evil. Refusing to judge an abusive lifestyle because there is a shred of good is basically turning a blind eye to the abuse. Remaining neutral over a system of abuse helps no one. 

Exactly.

imagine if a victim of abuse was told "But look at all the good things they've done since then! Are we really going to fault them for that one thing?"

Yes. We will. All the good things in the world can't negate the bad, especially when people's lives are on the line.

[MsSourPickle]

On 8/18/2016 at 4:13 PM, Bushes of Love said:

Here's the best photo I could find of my engagement ring. It was an eternity ring (quite ironic now that I'm divorced) with tiny diamonds and green stones.

My engagement story isn't spectacular. Me and my now ex husband were at a wedding of his cousin when we were 19. We'd been together for about 18 months and I told him that it'd be used some day. He said 'wait...have you just proposed?' And I said 'pretty much'. We then both said 'cool'. We didn't get married for another 4 years.

 

I'm also adding a photo of my blue wedding dress because I love it. Sorry not sorry!

I love your gown. I love the style and color of it.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

5 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I think the Admin who said that could have added the word "unfortunately" when she said that not everyone on FJ disapproves of their lifestyle.

 We are not a Duggar fan site.  We exist to focus on the flaws of Fundamentalism

I realize that English is not your first language and that you probably are not from the US. However, you have been a member for a couple of months now and should do more reading before you pride yourself on not judging a dangerous cult.

Yes.  The "unfortunately" was implied, sometimes I forget that doesn't always go without saying.

 There is nothing neutral about this stuff for me.

[Mela99]

according to PIckles-- and a photo - Jinger bought her dress already, at that place in Virginia. Ava Laurie or Laurene or whatever.

I'm a little surprised because they don't even have a date in mind. But then who am I to judge - we got engaged in December and I bought my dress in January. That was a fluke though, I didn't expect to find it...

[marmalade]

I'm sure they have a date. I'm also sure they won't disclose it due to stalker leghumpers. If they want this to be a small gathering (relatively speaking, I suppose), I imagine that security is going to be even tighter than Jill's "no pictures for 6 weeks" shindig. 

Because I was bored and someone had mentioned it, I looked around a couple of sites over the weekend, but alas, I was unable to unearth any registries. Maybe they're going to do the right thing and only send those links to people with actual invitations! If so, well played! It would be nice if just ONE FUCKING DUGGAR didn't try to take advantage of the fans for stuff they can certainly afford on their own. 

[socalrules]

Anyone think they will try to make Jinger's wedding "classier"? I think Jinger will get the nice wedding as an attempt to show that this relationship and lifestyle are actually quite normal. I also think they want to lessen the chance of being made fun of or mocked for their strangeness. 

[sophie10130]

Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if this wedding is smaller ALSO so they can lessen the backlash of Josh being there. I don't think they'll want the likes of tactless Jill Rodrigues there to ask embarrassing questions that she is trying to pass off as being empathetic or whatever. 

[Rowan]

A little late to the ring-fest, but still sharing.

Proposal - he did it within feet of where we met at the zoo, intended to do it in the morning but they were having a kid's program that the kids were coming about a minute later. So when we were leaving we had to stop to watch the cheetah in the yard, then wait to see if she did anything, oh look she's going back in her behind the scenes enclosure someone else might come out now....he was stalling until nobody else was around. Used a line from Shakespeare - "I do love nothing in the world so well as you" and got down on his knee. I can't tell  you if he said anything else, I was so overwhelmed. Even though we had talked about it for a while and I had dropped some pretty broad hints that maybe I could look for a stone in Namibia (that I was leaving for in 10 days!). He had just gotten a promise ring that is very pretty and my style, but an admitted placeholder. Money was an issue, need to save for a house and the wedding and all that. When we got the "real" ring, he gave it to me by the cheetahs at the zoo in the city where I was living at the time (4 hours away  - it was a long-distance relationship until 3 weeks before the wedding!).

Picture from the wedding, we just recently got them back. It was at the zoo, of course! And this was from our coloring book table (we also had a LEGO table for the record LOL). You can't see his well, it's just a gold band that was his father's (he passed about 6 years ago). My stone is actually not a diamond, it's moissanite. Originally discovered in a meteorite (how geeky! it's perfect), it's now synthesized. So about 10% of the price, and I think even prettier than diamonds. With none of the ethical issues either - after going to Namibia and seeing how the people live and realizing that the big companies are taking all the profit when those that are doing the actual work are barely scraping by? I can't feel ok wearing anything more than tiny accent diamonds (since the profit there is much less). It was the perfect choice for us, and it let me get the ring I had fallen in love with about a year before. :-)

[justmy2cents]

We know that they went to that Bridal shop but how can pickles be sure that JInger bought a dress?  If she has I hope it's something that's her style.

I think they either have a date or one in mind and that it's in the next few months.  The article in US said they were on the fast track. Also Jill and Derick said they'd be returning to CA in December so they need to make it happen before then.  

I went to two weddings this past weekend.  Both outdoor by a lake.  I could see JInger in a setting like that.  Don't think they would shell out the cash for a full dinner for around 500 people though.

[Shadoewolf]

3 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

Exactly.

imagine if a victim of abuse was told "But look at all the good things they've done since then! Are we really going to fault them for that one thing?"

Yes. We will. All the good things in the world can't negate the bad, especially when people's lives are on the line.

This!! Just the words I wanted but you beat me to it! A lot of people who knew the Boston marathon bomber said he was a nice guy. Both Brock Turner Stanford dumpster rapist and big fat liar Ryan Lochte are "a good boy who just made a mistake" according to statements. People are actually outraged that Speedo dared to drop Lochte's endorsement deal as of today. Joshley should be free and clear of everything now because he told Jesus he was sorry and went away to work camp for a few months?

This lack of accountability is exactly the problem. The gabon viper is gorgeous on the outside but still one of the most dangerous snakes on the planet.  

[alba]

6 hours ago, Mela99 said:

according to PIckles-- and a photo - Jinger bought her dress already, at that place in Virginia. Ava Laurie or Laurene or whatever.

I'm a little surprised because they don't even have a date in mind. But then who am I to judge - we got engaged in December and I bought my dress in January. That was a fluke though, I didn't expect to find it...

I don't think it's strange to buy the dress without a date. Wedding dress shopping when you're newly engaged is often a big social event for the bride, her mother, and her bridesmaid(s). Considering the primacy placed on a woman's wedding day in patriarchal cultures this is probably the case even moreso with the Duggars, especially if TLC is in charge. I'm guessing, considering you said it was a fluke, you didn't do that whole big shebang? My MIL insisted on it, and then we didn't get married for another five years (and I wore a totally different dress from what I thought I wanted then) XD

It's a little different with normal couples, who might not even know if they're getting married in July or January (assuming, of course, they live somewhere with proper seasons; I wore 3/4 sleeves for my July wedding because Scotland), but Jinger must know she's getting married sometime in the autumn, so even without an exact date there's still a reasonable timeframe.

[Queen]

Yesterday I was reading here and looking at all the pictures of your beautiful rings, when my girlfriend looked over my shoulder, puzzled. I didn't bother to explain this time; "yeah, it's the fundy critisizing forum, again, one of the Duggars got engaged so now everybody is talking about their own rings"  

Where I come from, people rarely have big stones on their rings. It is not seen as classy, and we don't tend to spend fortunes either  . Jinger's diamond would be considered a perfectly nice size, in the bigger end. My culture doesn't put much emphasis on wedding rituals overall, which I acctually find relieving since I'm not much of a party girl, big celebrations exhaust me. To each their own!

[nastyhobbitses]

13 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

Hmm. Positive things about the Duggars:

Servant's heart = service projects only when the cameras are rolling.

Modest dress = modifying normal clothes to show how pure they are, rather than buying something  suitable in the first place. Shaming a little one because she took off her jacket and exposed her arms. Etc., etc.

Honesty = hiding your son's problems and allowing others to think that he is blameless.

Generosity = giving away donuts that you grifted, and taking a picture so everyone knows how virtuous you are.

Compassion = filming your child's potty accidents. Showing your children in pain after falling or having medical procedures.

I could go on, but I think this shows how virtuous the Duggars really are.

And I know, because I'm a certified expert in everything. 

Modesty - Constantly telling your daughters that they have to cover themselves so that they don't tempt men. Telling them this continuously after they were sexually assaulted by their own brother. Whom you pretty much deny has a problem and allowed to continue living with his victims.

Wholesomeness - Practicing extreme educational neglect and raising children who are barely literate/numerate, and have the barest hint of skills that would allow them to work independently.

Accountability - Never allowing your children to be alone, blaming Satan or loose women for moral slipups, lying/covering up extreme wrongdoing within the family and Bill Gothard's institutions, teaching unquestioning obedience rather than critical and independent thinking, making children adhere to extremely rigid courtship rules that require constant chaperoning and complete lack of trust.

Stern, but loving parenting - Promoting a childrearing system that advocates beating infants for natural behavior, doing jackshit about your child molester of a son, beating older children (documented in the police reports released after the Josh incident).

[SilverBeach]

20 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

 

Not everyone here disapproves of their lifestyle and many are here not because it's not a Duggar fan site, but in spite of that and they are fans of the family.  

Unfortunately, this is so true and I will never understand it. There are other more hospitable places to hang out online if you approve or are neutral towards their lifestyle. Personally, I hate it.

[Captain Obvious]

13 hours ago, MsSourPickle said:

I love your gown. I love the style and color of it.

Me too!

I also wore a navy blue dress. It must be an FJ thing. Knew this was an awesome place!