Totus Tuus Traditionalist homeschooling blog

[Four is Enough]

16 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

 

Now obviously most American parishes are neither conservative nor traditionalist, but somewhere in between, yet still struggle with community. Why is that? My own hunch is that the view that a parish is not a chosen community but a "sacrament dispenser" extends to more moderate Catholic parishes as well. One reason many otherwise disaffected Catholics remain Catholic is because of the belief that it's "the True Church" with sacraments instituted by Jesus, while Protestant churches do not. If you're mainly there for the sacraments, the other people in the pews are an afterthought. Many, perhaps most of the pre-Vatican II parishes were "ethnic parishes" where belonging was as much about being Irish, Italian, Polish, black Creole, etc. as it was religion as such. With the demise of many of these parishes by white flight, suburbanization, and just plain assimilation it's unclear how to "do Catholicism," especially in a country that is not just culturally Protestant but until recently saw itself as explicitly "not Catholic."

Bolding mine. I can partially respond to the question, although I believe Cleopatra's explanation rings true as well.

They struggle with community depending on the Archdiocese or Diocesan regulations. I hate to keep bringing up what happened to us with Son and his transgressions, but when the Archdiocese of Where We Live found out, due to a phone call from a busybody, Son lost his spot at an Archdiocesan school, I lost my job at an Archdiocesan school, my son was told never to step foot  in the only parish church he'd ever known, the one where he'd been baptized, made first communion and reconciliation, served at altar, and was working towards confirmation, and I was forced to quit my participation in the choirs of the church and volunteering at the school. Our family was permitted to attend the church, (like I"m going to go anywhere my kids are not welcome) but Son was told he could only attend Mass and do no ministries at any Archdiocesan church.

Our parish church and school tried very hard to reason with the Archdiocese, but we were excised surgically, in one afternoon, and no explanation was given. If your parish's higher ups are trying that hard to maintain the status quo, there's going to be a disconnect in the community they're able to provide and promote.

I do consider myself to remain a Roman catholic, although unchurched, because I still live in the same Archdiocese and will not attend Mass within its precincts. Two exceptions? My mother's funeral and my daughter's high school graduation. Each was fraught for me with extreme grief, rather than the reason I was there. 

 

I can also say that the ethnicity factor did seem to make the churches more of a community back when Mr. Four and I were kids. He grew up in a Polish/Ukrainian neighborhood, and most of his neighbors attended the same church he did, their kids attended the parish school, etc. There were Polish War Veterans, Men's Choir, Women's Choir, Mothers and Father's clubs at the school, just many activities based in the parish that we just don't see any more.. so the sense of community is diminishing  My school sponsored things like Scouts, and had of course the fund raising bake sales, card parties, dances, weddings/receptions, etc.. now, to get an event at school or church is not worth trying.

[feministxtian]

I think the reason the RCCs struggle with community is partially the tension between the traditionalists and the liberals. Mind you, I'm reaching back about 20 years now, but the parish was divided between the haves and the have nots. Honestly, it came down to $$$. There also seems to be an expectation of "towing the party line" and no room for outliers. 

Fortunately, I have found a community of faith that has room for variety. 

[PennySycamore]

Now this happened almost 30 years ago, but the Young Mothers Guild or Club in my old Catholic parish did bring frozen meals for several weeks to me after I had a premie.  I wasn't even a member of the group either.  I have no idea if that group even still exists.  

[Hane]

 

 

20 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

 

Now obviously most American parishes are neither conservative nor traditionalist, but somewhere in between, yet still struggle with community. Why is that? My own hunch is that the view that a parish is not a chosen community but a "sacrament dispenser" extends to more moderate Catholic parishes as well. One reason many otherwise disaffected Catholics remain Catholic is because of the belief that it's "the True Church" with sacraments instituted by Jesus, while Protestant churches do not. If you're mainly there for the sacraments, the other people in the pews are an afterthought. Many, perhaps most of the pre-Vatican II parishes were "ethnic parishes" where belonging was as much about being Irish, Italian, Polish, black Creole, etc. as it was religion as such. With the demise of many of these parishes by white flight, suburbanization, and just plain assimilation it's unclear how to "do Catholicism," especially in a country that is not just culturally Protestant but until recently saw itself as explicitly "not Catholic."

Right on the money! (Emphasis mine.)

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Mr Black Dress and I are truly blessed in the parish we attend.  In our southern city it is considered an inner city parish and it serves rich, poor, middle class, straight, gay, married, single, divorced, young, old, middle-aged, black, white, Hispanic, African and anyone who wanders in  Our parish is truly a community, with thriving ministries and social events through out the year that are well attended. 

I understand that many of the suburban parishes are very different. A friend describes them "uptight, white and excruciatingly polite".  Ultimately  I think the tone of a parish is set by the priest.  

My parish had for many years a wonderful priest who was sent there as "punishment" by the Archbishop. Father X vocally disagreed with how the Archbishop was lavishing money on the suburban parishes and letting the older city parishes dry up and die.  Father X took his punishment as an opportunity to make our parish the vibrant congregation it once had been and to expand the reach of the parish in the community.  

Every priest we've had since has carried on Father X's mission and our parish is keeps growing steadily and thriving.  So much so that we were named a Basilica 2 years ago.

 

[feministxtian]

21 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I understand that many of the suburban parishes are very different. A friend describes them "uptight, white and excruciatingly polite".  Ultimately  I think the tone of a parish is set by the priest.  

 

That is exactly what I've seen. VERY white, very middle to upper middle class, very unaware of life outside their bubble. Very cliquish, unwelcoming to outsiders. 

[Cleopatra7]

42 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Mr Black Dress and I are truly blessed in the parish we attend.  In our southern city it is considered an inner city parish and it serves rich, poor, middle class, straight, gay, married, single, divorced, young, old, middle-aged, black, white, Hispanic, African and anyone who wanders in  Our parish is truly a community, with thriving ministries and social events through out the year that are well attended. 

I understand that many of the suburban parishes are very different. A friend describes them "uptight, white and excruciatingly polite".  Ultimately  I think the tone of a parish is set by the priest.  

My parish had for many years a wonderful priest who was sent there as "punishment" by the Archbishop. Father X vocally disagreed with how the Archbishop was lavishing money on the suburban parishes and letting the older city parishes dry up and die.  Father X took his punishment as an opportunity to make our parish the vibrant congregation it once had been and to expand the reach of the parish in the community.  

Every priest we've had since has carried on Father X's mission and our parish is keeps growing steadily and thriving.  So much so that we were named a Basilica 2 years ago.

 

I'm pretty sure I know which parish you're thinking of, and if I'm correct, then the parish in question really does communicate the 'catholic' nature of Catholicism well, rather than the "uptight, white, and polite" vibe of their suburban counterparts or the self-conscious conservative/traditionalist ones..

[Hane]

@Red Hair, Black Dress: That's what I liked about a parish where my daughter once served on the music staff. It was in a very diverse suburb of Hartford, and the parishioners were of many different ethnicities and races. She liked the parish so much that she enrolled her child in its school.