Seventeen - Not the Magazine - Bateseseses Threads!

[samurai_sarah]

12 minutes ago, CrockpotsandGspots said:

Since I kept getting misquoted and aggressively questioned about the same things and issues, I figured I should make it known that I am indeed not a fundie spy, in case that was the issue.

The issues with said former member were of a different nature, and are not comparable to FJers taking issue with *your* posts.

[formergothardite]

30 minutes ago, CrockpotsandGspots said:

What are my "inaccuracies," that I posted?

I would say that it is pretty inaccurate to claim there is no evidence Kelly spanks. It would be like trying to claim someone who said they used the Pearl's method never spanked. A key part of Ezzo's teaching is beating toddlers and not only did Kelly say she followed Ezzo's teachings, she encouraged others to do so. It just doesn't make sense to try and say there is no evidence she spanks when the child training methods she said she used is heavy on spanking. 

It would be wonderful if Kelly was a loving, gentle mother, but all signs point to her being a  mother who used abusive baby training, spanked, and assigned her babies buddies before birth. And due to her position in IBLP/ATI it is pretty clear covering up abuse isn't something that would bother her. People who are revolted by abuse and would do the right thing would have never made it that far in IBLP. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

16 minutes ago, CrockpotsandGspots said:

What are my "inaccuracies," that I posted? I said I only made absolute opinions on things I have seen, read, or heard. Ex) The Bates have cameras around their house to keep an eye on their kids and and that is gross and disturbing. And I kept clarifying in a round Robbin that I think the Bates religious beliefs are horrible. I know there was a person posting about her relationship to the family and her crush on Zach Bates in the earlier thread who was booted because the admins said they sent her private messages that she didn't answer, and her comments didn't seem to add up, so they de-activated her account. Since I kept getting misquoted and aggressively questioned about the same things and issues, I figured I should make it known that I am indeed not a fundie spy, in case that was the issue. 

You have not been misquoted.  A couple of times you've said that people should check with you before making assumptions about what you meant.  This is a forum where people communicate in writing.  If you find people so frequently misinterpreting what you said then it's on you to be more clear when communicating.  No one can read your mind so people will respond based on what you actually say, not what you say that you meant.

As far as aggressiveness goes, no one has attacked you. They have responded to the views you posted with their own.  If you've lurked for as long as you state surely you can't think this is a place to post wishful thinking and suppositions uncontested?  

Diagreement =\= aggression.

 The condescension with which you replied to @formergothardite was more aggressive than anything directed at you.  Aknowledging you've read her views on this before doesn't mean she should sit silently in response to you.  And claiming to not be a leg humper or whatever doesn't entitle you to the benefit of the doubt from anyone.

Referencing what happened with a previous poster was for what purpose?  If you haven't claimed personal aquantenship with them nor ignored mod PMs attempting to clear it up how is that relevant?

We do welcome new people and the vast majority join in just fine without incident.  That you have had a contentious start has nothing to do with a bias against new posters.

I strongly suggest you follow @SpoonfulOSugar 's advice and rows the FAQ, etc to address your quoting issues and I second her plea for paragraphs.  Your posts are very difficult to read.

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

24 minutes ago, CrockpotsandGspots said:

 

Your post was overly aggressive. I stand by my comment that some new members get hazed. Read it, seen it, felt it. 

You said that in response to @SpoonfulOSugar 's post.  If you consider that post aggressive then I'm afraid you're confusing direct with aggressive.  If you read it you'd see she handed you a blueprint to how to post so people will listen to you.  Pretty valuable information, and not hostile.

If lack of headpats = agressive for you then you might not find hanging out on FJ as pleasant as a kitten sliding down a rainbow while eating a cupcake.

If you feel this is hazing and thst is this is something you think happens here one would have to wonder what your motivations are coming in from jump the way you did.  Seems like you'd have anticipated the response you received?

 

[PianoPounder]

1 hour ago, CrockpotsandGspots said:

Their acceptance rate is 63%. I never said it was a bad school, I said it was not stellar, and it isn't. I have had a few friends attend. I saw the curriculum, and I am going based off of their first hand accounts (1 was in the top of our class in hs and one was in the bottom third) and they said it wasn't challenging at all. Many of the women, and unfortunately one of those friends would actively tell you they were just there for their MRS degree. That does not mean ALL. But when my friends who attended tell me that most women say that and then I meet a group and 8/10 say that, and I see an administrator actively trying to set up marriages (he was my friend's 30 yr old Dean) I do feel that I can say they don't appear to be heavily focused on academics. It is accredited and I never said it was bad, though their religious doctrine scares me and is similar to Liberty and PCC. The dorm rules are wicked strict regarding males and females and their interactions. 

Your original post implied that it was barely a step up from Crown. I disagreed with that. 

I, too, am going off of first-hand accounts -- I'm FROM Anderson, my sister is an AU grad, and a couple of my good friends just graduated from AU a couple of years ago. On top of that, my granny's family is heavily Church of God, so I grew up around the religious doctrine. 

If you think it's strict now, you should have seen how it was when my sister attended. I'm not entirely sure how much more lax the rules have gotten, but they actually allow dances now, which has only happened in recent years. When my sister was there, you got expelled if you were even SEEN in a bar, even if you were just drinking a Sprite or something.

I am glad that you specified that you're not implying that all women are there for a MRS degree, because that's definitely not the case (and frankly, anyone who forks over that much cash just to meet dudes is an idiot, IMO). All the women I've known who went to AU barely dated when they were there, and if they did, they didn't date AU guys (my sister, for example, met my BIL in Mexico on Spring Break). Depending on the major, they do have good programs. I've known several faculty members, and they all cared deeply about making sure their students were getting the best education possible.

Despite the fact that the town basically died after the factories shut down, Anderson isn't entirely a cultural wasteland, and Indianapolis is close enough that it's nothing to drive to Indy for a little weekend culture. There is plenty of accessible worldliness for those who want it.

Is it a good fit for everyone? Definitely not. I never wanted to go (both because I found the rules stifling and I wanted to get out of Anderson). But it's not a bad school for those who want that kind of religious education.

[Fascinated]

Checking in briefly from France to state the obvious:  this constant back and forth regarding the betterness of the Bateseseses is just getting so old.  I propose that new members be required to concede the point that the Duggars and Bateseseses are equal in their vileness and evility.  Then poor @formergothardite will no longer have to keep popping in here to set everyone straight.  I think she would enjoy taking a respite from that.  Yes, I made up some words a la Erika Shupe. I blame the Kir.

(For the record, not seriously purposing to have new members do that. T'would be nice though, oui?)

[Coconut Flan]

10 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

(For the record, not seriously purposing to have new members do that. T'would be nice though, oui?)

Indeed.  It would save many people a lot of time.

Ack phone rang while I had message box open and I forgot what I really meant to type.  The Anderson that the Bateses attended was I believe the South Carolina one not the Indiana one.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, Fascinated said:

Checking in briefly from France to state the obvious:  this constant back and forth regarding the betterness of the Bateseseses is just getting so old.  I propose that new members be required to concede the point that the Duggars and Bateseseses are equal in their vileness and evility.  Then poor @formergothardite will no longer have to keep popping in here to set everyone straight.  I think she would enjoy taking a respite from that.  Yes, I made up some words a la Erika Shupe. I blame the Kir.

(For the record, not seriously purposing to have new members do that. T'would be nice though, oui?)

@formergothardite has the the most remarkable ability to keep explaining the truth logically and patently with an almost supernatural degree of stamina.

Like in Harry Potter where his spell and Voldemort's curse lock in the Cemetary in Goblet of Fire...and all of Voldy's previous victims jump out of the stream one by one from Harry's wand.

FG is like Harry's wand, if it could type.  If people get distracted by the freakshow just calmly there keeping victims front and center.  Making sure no one forgets that real people are collateral damage behind the facade.

You should have a glass of kir while toasting the fight against evility.  

[actuallyjessica]

31 minutes ago, Fascinated said:

Checking in briefly from France to state the obvious:  this constant back and forth regarding the betterness of the Bateseseses is just getting so old.  I propose that new members be required to concede the point that the Duggars and Bateseseses are equal in their vileness and evility.  Then poor @formergothardite will no longer have to keep popping in here to set everyone straight.  I think she would enjoy taking a respite from that.  Yes, I made up some words a la Erika Shupe. I blame the Kir.

(For the record, not seriously purposing to have new members do that. T'would be nice though, oui?)

Or, if @formergothardite and others feel it their personal duty to continue to instruct new members, or anyone who they feel does not possess knowledge of opinion, perhaps its time to have some sort of prewritten message that is easily copied and pasted to direct said members to particular posts. It is then up to the member if they wish to read up, (if they haven't already) but after that - no one can control the narrative of the thread, lest be rules violated. This will then save people feeling like they constantly have to correct others, and it will save the other members hearing it over and over and over again.

[sophie10130]

We need a Bateses FAQ. Or a flow chart.

1. Is Alyssa fundie lite?

No. She profits off of the TV show which normalizes oppressive and abusive behavior.

2. But she wears pants?

See above.

3. Erin said she was only going to have 2 children. Is she fundie lite?

No. See answer to first question.

4. What about this tiny shift in doctrine? Are they going fundie lite?

No. It's to make them more appealing to mass audiences. They are still profiting off of the TV show.

etc.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

Or, if @formergothardite and others feel it their personal duty to continue to instruct new members, or anyone who they feel does not possess knowledge of opinion, perhaps its time to have some sort of prewritten message that is easily copied and pasted to direct said members to particular posts. It is then up to the member if they wish to read up, (if they haven't already) but after that - no one can control the narrative of the thread, lest be rules violated. This will then save people feeling like they constantly have to correct others, and it will save the other members hearing it over and over and over again.

Other options are people who are tired of reading posts against dismissing the sexual abs use cover up as an inconvenient factoid can use the ignore feature on posters who do point out the problems with being a Bates fan.

or people could read this at posted by the site owner on this forum

FreeJinger is not a Bates family fan site

I personally think it's more important to remember the abuse and how very dangerous they are by the virtue of how appealing they can present rather than silence that so people can use magical thinking to try to change the narrative that despite her endorsement of Ezzo thst Kelly wouldn't hurt those babies, or to give a passing nod to their coverup of Gothard's abuse and get right back to squeeing.

not wanting people to control the narrative of the thread - is that only something that should be applied to those who keep bringing it back to the danger, or those who want to control the narrative by the wanting the right to ignore that in peace?

 

[actuallyjessica]

^ Any time anything at all (including my post) is perceived as having an opposing opinion, there is paragraph after paragraph of text such as above, so, I just meant it as a mere time-saving suggestion, seeing as it happens so frequently

[HerNameIsBuffy]

3 minutes ago, actuallyjessica said:

^ Any time anything at all (including my post) is perceived as having an opposing opinion, there is paragraph after paragraph of text such as above, so, I just meant it as a mere time-saving suggestion, seeing as it happens so frequently

Quote

It is then up to the member if they wish to read up, (if they haven't already) but after that - no one can control the narrative of the thread, lest be rules violated

Actually the above isn't about time saving, although your concern for others is sweet.  But this...hard to imagine how 'but after that...' Portion is about time savings and not about wanting people prohibited from pointing the shit out after their links.

Just discussion since a rule silencing those speaking out against the danger so pro-Bates sentiments from new and old can flourish in peace isn't super likely to happen.  

But it's always nice to have a dream.  

[formergothardite]

I do get that just going by the show, current blog and social media the Bates look 100% more normal than the Bates, but it is rather ridiculous to make up stories blaming Michelle for Kelly being seen with vile child training books when Kelly has made it clear she uses and has no issue with vile child training books. To think that Kelly wouldn't hit her small children shows a lack of knowledge about the Bates and their beliefs.

 Yeah, I know it annoys folks to have to hear it over and over again that the Bates are really, really bad people, but until the admins tell me to stop doing that, I'll probably keep on being annoying.  The real victims are the people the Bates hurt and the people they continue to hurt. The victims are the people whose stories are doubted because Kelly and Gil have done such a good job convincing people they wouldn't harm a fly, let alone participate in the systematic covering up of abuse. There are plenty of places to go to talk about the Bates, but FJ has a long history of talking about the dangers of fundamentalist, even the ones who look cute and cuddly.

It isn't wise to downplay the danger of this family and how they are using their show to normalize an abusive lifestyle.  

[Arix]

15 hours ago, CrockpotsandGspots said:

@HermioneSparrow Noted! How much money would you pay to see Kelly Jo in a traditional belly dancing outfit complete with crop top and skirt with the jingling coins dancing (gasp) to charm a snake? 

I think you're using brain bleach wrong, or backpedaling to save face. My money is on the later

[Destiny]

37 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Yeah, I know it annoys folks to have to hear it over and over again that the Bates are really, really bad people, but until the admins tell me to stop doing that, I'll probably keep on being annoying.  The real victims are the people the Bates hurt and the people they continue to hurt. The victims are the people whose stories are doubted because Kelly and Gil have done such a good job convincing people they wouldn't harm a fly, let alone participate in the systematic covering up of abuse. There are plenty of places to go to talk about the Bates, but FJ has a long history of talking about the dangers of fundamentalist, even the ones who look cute and cuddly.

It isn't wise to downplay the danger of this family and how they are using their show to normalize an abusive lifestyle.  

Edited 37 minutes ago by formergothardite

All of this.  There is a reason that our motto is "Focusing on the flaws in Fundamentalism since 2005". We exist to point out the problems in fundamentalism, and the abuses. These people make their fundamentalist lifestyle look cute and folksy, but they are still terrible people who cover up abuse.

As to the bolded? Not fucking likely to come from me @formergothardite. <3

[PennySycamore]

@Coconut Flan, you're right about the Anderson University in question being the one in South Carolina.  Anderson was Anderson Junior College when Gil and Kelly went there.  They had to transfer to Carson-Newman to finish their degrees.  

Both schools are affiliated with the Southern Baptist Church.  Anderson and North Greenville only became 4 year schools after Furman University in Greenville broke off its ties to the SBC over the conservative direction the convention was taking.  Furman is better off being completely independent.

The Anderson, Indiana college is affiliated with the Church of God of Anderson Indiana and neither college  is affiliated with Anderson-Hyles.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

On 8/6/2016 at 5:49 PM, formergothardite said:

Kelly was a well educated woman who made the decision with Gil to join a dangerous cult and then worked with Gil to get to the upper ranks. She sent her daughters off on trips out of the country with a man she had to have known had a long history of molesting the innocent young teen girls who traveled with him. 

Appalling indeed.

As I said many times, I find the two families (and many others discussed on this site) to be equally cult-promoting evil bunches, but if anything, I think the combination educated/smart+ evil is scarier than dumb/ignorant +evil.

Having been exposed to education and "world", and still intentionally choosing to be a part of and promote the cult, while knowingly covering up abuse, is scarier and more dangerous in my opinion. Educated evil is scarier than dumb blindness.

On 8/7/2016 at 7:46 AM, formergothardite said:

When James Dobson thinks you have gone too far, you have really, really gone too far. 

Reminds me of the (in)famous line from "Home Alone":

"Kevin, if Uncle Frank says no, then it must be really bad"

[JillyO]

Looks like John and Alyssa are in TN right now. Whitney posted a pic. Creepy Becky is being creepy AF again. "becky_m2001It's wonderful that y'all got to see each other!! Tell Alyssa and John that we miss them here on Instagram!! @zachnwhitbates @webster4ever @johnw1121 @ajw524 @thebatesfam"

 

[PianoPounder]

On 8/7/2016 at 1:42 PM, Coconut Flan said:

Indeed.  It would save many people a lot of time.

Ack phone rang while I had message box open and I forgot what I really meant to type.  The Anderson that the Bateses attended was I believe the South Carolina one not the Indiana one.

I had (mistakenly) been under the impression that the Anderson in SC was Anderson College, so when @CrockpotsandGspots mentioned Anderson University, I just kind of assumed the AU in Indiana was the one being mentioned. So if the SC AU was the one Crockpots was talking about, then any confusion is totally on me.

[AliceInFundyland]

@formergothardite I have to think you help. It's difficult to remember the exact progression of events that caused me to learn about everything Gothard. But it started at the Duggars a few years ago... and then probably went to the Bates and so on and so forth. I liked reading about all the creepy shit so any time the bad stuff was pointed out I would run and look. I'm sure there are more people than not who have done the same.

Anyhow, at that point there was not a forum for the Bates but I remember being influenced by your posts. Thought you could use the kudos

[violynn]

1 hour ago, AliceInFundyland said:

@formergothardite I have to think you help. It's difficult to remember the exact progression of events that caused me to learn about everything Gothard. But it started at the Duggars a few years ago... and then probably went to the Bates and so on and so forth. I liked reading about all the creepy shit so any time the bad stuff was pointed out I would run and look. I'm sure there are more people than not who have done the same.

Anyhow, at that point there was not a forum for the Bates but I remember being influenced by your posts. Thought you could use the kudos

@formergothardite, you definitely help!  Your information opened my eyes up in a big way to the pretty facade of what the Bates' really stand for and the harm they do.  Attractive bad guys are far more dangerous than their counterparts, the weird and unattractive.  

[sunshine]

There is 5 episode left until the break.  That's all.

[season of life]

Do some people truly feel the urge to defend the honor of the Bateses...?

I wish their show would get cancelled.

[Kak]

@formergothardite count me in as another poster who appreciates your posts and your insight. Thank you for sharing your experience.