Seventeen - Not the Magazine - Bateseseses Threads!

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I took a pic of Zach's tv area - they have the movie Taken which has sex/drugs/violence/profanity! And Vantage Point is another action flick. 

I also saw Three Men and a Little Lady (lol) and Finding Nemo (aww)

[Nashville92]

Zach had a nice TV.  Much nicer than mine.  It seemed to me that Whit was barely tolerating the boys.  Although I'll give her credit if I was that far along I doubt I'd want many if any house guests

[Arix]

1 hour ago, NotALoserLikeYou said:

I took a pic of Zach's tv area - they have the movie Taken which has sex/drugs/violence/profanity! And Vantage Point is another action flick. 

In one of the Josh/Anna courting episodes, they watched an 18+ movie, accompanied by Jana and J-D, so I'm not all that surprised.

[AnnaRuk09]

9 minutes ago, Arix said:

In one of the Josh/Anna courting episodes, they watched an 18+ movie, accompanied by Jana and J-D, so I'm not all that surprised.

I remember that. I wonder what the movie they watched was called and exactly what made it 18+. I doubt that their parents would allow them to see a movie full of sexual innuendos and such even though they were 18. 

[Arix]

I'm curious too, but knowing what I know now about the molestations, I don't have the stomach to watch Josh joke about Jana and J-D holding hands, because"this is Arkansas, after all, ha-ha." Pretty sure Jana knew about the molestations, and that's such a wtf thing to joke about.

[socalrules]

I wouldn't be surprised if Zach and Whitney had cable, especially with that huge tv. I think Zach likes the more normal life he has with Whitney. He always seems to happy with her. I wonder if Zach loves the fact that Whitney isn't expecting him to be the ideal fundy husband since she wasn't raised in the cult and it takes a lot of pressure off of him. 

[Fundie Bunny]

6 hours ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

I remember that. I wonder what the movie they watched was called and exactly what made it 18+. I doubt that their parents would allow them to see a movie full of sexual innuendos and such even though they were 18. 

I think i saw this conversation on the forum a while ago, and the consensus ended up being that it was probably just an unrated version of fireproof or some other kirk cameron crap

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

I think i saw this conversation on the forum a while ago, and the consensus ended up being that it was probably just an unrated version of fireproof or some other kirk cameron crap

I think it was Fireproof actually. At the very least it was a type of Kirk Cameron shit show. So nothing that wouldn't really be ok with Gothard or their parents to be honest.

[hollywood]

Zach has Sherlock Holmes, RDJ version. Good stuff.A+ Zach.

[CrockpotsandGspots]

First post ever after reading FJ posts for years, and researching/ watching every special and episode of the Duggars and Bates (the Amish are my obsession and these families are my sideshow hobby.) So I thought my first post would be this epic message about pausing the Bates episode and writing down what movies they had but "NotALoserLikeYou" beat me to it! (And got a couple I couldn't make out.) Well done!  But I did make out Taken and Vantage Point and googled them just to be sure there wasn't some fundie Christian movie about God having "Taken" a girl's heart or some shit like that. I was truly shocked. I WANT the older kids to become less crazy and Taken is WAY past what the fundiedom would allow even for married couples. The amount of nudity and prostitution, violence, torture etc. Etc. These are not Winnie the Pooh or western movies. So Unless he just took the movies from a police buddy to be nice and they haven't watched them (BS but possible since both involve police / govt agencies ) I think this points to Z and W veering toward fundie-lite. I thought it was Earth shattering when Erin said she likes Dr. Quinn and Little House because as 2 of my fav shows there are some very liberal feminist themes, and a real creepy episode about raping like a 13-14 yr old  (Little House) and I still barely considered THAT slight fundie lite behavior. I wonder how many of the older boys (Lawson I would put money on) have seen the violent nudey defrauding movies instead of  "Friday night football." Ps.  I am still learning all the proper ways to respond and copy and paste things etc. In the new members and ITforum. 

[backyard sylph]

Hi, @CrockpotsandGspots I'm quite a fan of your name.

I wondered if he picked up that movie in a five dollar bin or something, like, because the synopsis on the back leads one to believe it's mostly just action or something, and he didn't read the small print warning stating it's filled with all the sins. But to then leave it on display is kind of fascinating, to be sure.

[CrockpotsandGspots]

Hi @backyard sylph, thanks for the praise on my name. Insert praise hands (hands in the air like we love and care Fo' Jesus- the fundie version "Rapper's Delight" staring Bin.) PS. I can't cook even with crockpots, so my name is representative of how I feel about  the fundie lifestyle, driven by cooking and sex aka pregnant barefoot women (who prob will never know what an "O" is) cooking her headship glop from a can. 

And true Zach could have just read the back synopsis but I didn't think as Mullet has said "we don't put garbage in our mouths so we shouldn't put it in our brains..." that Kelly and Gil would EVER have allowed that movie since it is R rated and super violent. I suspect Zach and Whit (GO BACK TO PANTS) are slowly doing "bad things" like watching cable and non Christian movies that are not circa 1960, but are making excuses to the family. Ex. Gil: son what is this? " Oh I had no idea It had underage rape, prostitution and torture but I didn't throw it away because a buddy from the force loaned it to me."  And they had a whole DRAWER full of movies (please let Harry Potter be in there!!) we couldn't see the titles of. They are hooked I bet. And I truly hope so. 

Also in that episode- I know the Duggars and Bates and their lack of safety for their blessings has been discussed but no helmets on anyone esp your little (9-11 aged) girls. Sigh. I think KJ and Gil actually do love their children (A big part of me may vomit if it surfaces that she switched or worseher kids per the Pearls book- I know it was in the home and some people have said she mentioned it on her old blog but it bothers me so much I need to do more research to find out if perhaps Mullet gave her the book and she put it on a shelf - I know wishful thinking, but I just can't picture her beating her children and I am not a leghumper. I just don't want to imagine those kids mentally and physically harmed.) And you hear KJ yell things about safety but they are kids SO go out and strap a helmet on them if you have to! I'm sure Christopher Reeve is face palming in Heaven right now (yes I am a Christian on the days I'm not agnostic hah- I am just not a close minded bigoted nutcase.) SMILE  can't wait to join the Rodriguiiiiiii chats too! 

 

[marmalade]

19 hours ago, AnnaRuk09 said:

I remember that. I wonder what the movie they watched was called and exactly what made it 18+. I doubt that their parents would allow them to see a movie full of sexual innuendos and such even though they were 18. 

It was FIreproof. It was only listed as 18+ because it was a preview showing. The movie itself wasn't rated R. 

[backyard sylph]

11 minutes ago, CrockpotsandGspots said:

Also in that episode- I know the Duggars and Bates and their lack of safety for their blessings has been discussed but no helmets on anyone esp your little (9-11 aged) girls. Sigh. I think KJ and Gil actually do love their children (A big part of me may vomit if it surfaces that she switched or worseher kids per the Pearls book- I know it was in the home and some people have said she mentioned it on her old blog but it bothers me so much I need to do more research to find out if perhaps Mullet gave her the book and she put it on a shelf - I know wishful thinking, but I just can't picture her beating her children and I am not a leghumper. I just don't want to imagine those kids mentally and physically harmed.) And you hear KJ yell things about safety but they are kids SO go out and strap a helmet on them if you have to! I'm sure Christopher Reeve is face palming in Heaven right now (yes I am a Christian on the days I'm not agnostic hah- I am just not a close minded bigoted nutcase.) SMILE  can't wait to join the Rodriguiiiiiii chats too! 

 

I'd bet money either they never did it, or tried it for awhile and gave up. It just isn't who they are. I see nuance in everything. I can't see anything as "all or nothing at all." Those kids aren't submissive and they haven't had their will broken. Recently, someone here was talking about how the track they're on does not actually insist on skirts only, etc. but that the Duggars and Bateseses made that a personal family anchor. It's clear they pick and choose what to eat from the IBLP Dogma Buffet.

These apologetics I'm offering are not to excuse a semi-cloistered, narrow-minded and apparently bigoted way of life, just to point out they are not all clones of each other. I believe it is a disservice to do otherwise.

As to helmets, I absolutely think they're mandatory with bicycles. With horses, I'm less certain. It is not the tradition in Western-style riding. It's only a somewhat recent tradition with English style, in terms of how long people have been riding. I surmise people feel they're safer with big heavy Western saddles, which, after all, were developed to keep the cowboy in the saddle under harsh conditions.

[imokit]

Kelly sung the praises of Ezzo, this is a guy who's strict feeding regime has killed infants due to starvation.  If you use a method which starts training babies from day one, the pearls and blanket training are the next logical step.

I have no doubt they were heavy on the physical discipline, how heavy they were I don't know.  I also think they've eased up and the younger ones are getting far less of it than the older ones (the older ones - Carlin, and Gill & Kelly themselves have confirmed that their more flexible), how much? again I don't know.

[PianoPounder]

8 minutes ago, backyard sylph said:

As to helmets, I absolutely think they're mandatory with bicycles. With horses, I'm less certain. It is not the tradition in Western-style riding. It's only a somewhat recent tradition with English style, in terms of how long people have been riding. I surmise people feel they're safer with big heavy Western saddles, which, after all, were developed to keep the cowboy in the saddle under harsh conditions.

Though wearing a helmet is certainly safer (and often required at riding schools and similar places), I do think most people who ride recreationally don't wear helmets (at least in my experience). I don't think I know anyone  with horses who wears a helmet at home when they rIde.

[JermajestyDuggar]

The fact that Whitney grew up non fundie tells me she knows exactly what some of those movies were about. Taken came out in 2008! She didn't even meet Zach until years after that! I'm sure some of those movies are favorites of Whitneys and knew damn well what Taken is about. 

[OrchidBlossom]

Does anyone know how important television and movie intake is to IBLP people? Someone with a IBLP background maybe? I know a fundie lite veering on fundie girl who watches secular tv and movies (on occasion).

 I think that there are IBLPs who watch "secular" movies. Not sure about Taken (which is pretty... uh... intense for fundamentalists) but I'm pretty sure several fundies we follow have made reference to secular movies of various kinds. I want to say one of the Saylers (?) instagram posts referenced a secular movie I wasn't expecting them to know about (all the instas sort of blur though its hard to keep track). 

I'd love to hear that it's a sign of a more secular leaning but I tend to be skeptical until I see something that rejects the core values of IBLP as opposed to the cultural trimmings (like hairstyle and dress) and I don't know how "core" avoiding secular media is. 

[Fundie Bunny]

4 hours ago, OrchidBlossom said:

Does anyone know how important television and movie intake is to IBLP people? Someone with a IBLP background maybe? I know a fundie lite veering on fundie girl who watches secular tv and movies (on occasion).

 

We may have to summon @formergothardite for this one

[formergothardite]

13 hours ago, CrockpotsandGspots said:

I think KJ and Gil actually do love their children (A big part of me may vomit if it surfaces that she switched or worseher kids per the Pearls book- I know it was in the home and some people have said she mentioned it on her old blog but it bothers me so much I need to do more research to find out if perhaps Mullet gave her the book and she put it on a shelf - I know wishful thinking, but I just can't picture her beating her children and I am not a leghumper. I just don't want to imagine those kids mentally and physically harmed.)

Don't be fooled by the show they put on, in some ways Kelly was a worse mother than Michelle. Michelle at least pretended to care for her babies, the old blog shows that Kelly was assigning her kid's buddies before they were even born and she used extremely harsh and abusive baby training. And I have no doubt they beat the shit out of those kids. Gil and Kelly currently have cameras mounted all over their house so they can constantly monitor their children still living at home. Those two are not the loving, normal parents they pretend to be. 

It is good to keep in mind that Gil and Kelly are the kind of people that Bill Gothard handpicked to bring into his inner circle. That means that he knew they would turn a blind eye to abuse and help cover up abuse if necessary. And Gil did exactly that. I'm sure Kelly knew all about the abuse and what was going on in IBLP/ATI. Of course, Gil is also the sort of a person to be greedy for power and money so he took the first opportunity to shove Gothard out, take over the Cult and continue with trying to hurt the victims of IBLP. Bringing Up Bates doesn't show the real Gil and Kelly. The real Gil and Kelly are people who moved easily up into positions of power in IBLP, and that should tell you a great deal about what sort of people they really are. 

I think the kids' wills are just as broken as the Duggars, the Bates just have  naturally more outgoing personalities, and people are wrongly taking that to mean they are somehow less brainwashed. The Bates children have pretty much stuck to the narrow IBLP and have shown no sign of rebellion against the cult. 

As for television and movies, it honestly just depends on the family. I suck at trivia from the 90's because my parents, by that point, had gotten pretty strict about a lot of movies and television. But then there were some people who weren't allowed any television at all and didn't even know who Bugs Bunny was.  When I was at EXCEL in the 90's, when IBLP was stricter than it is now, I was shocked to hear groups of girls talking about how they loved movies like Four Weddings and a Funeral and Pretty Woman. They got lectured about it because we weren't supposed to be talking about stuff like that, but clearly these ATI families with tons of kids were watching modern movies with un-IBLP themes. And that was back when ATI was way stricter than now.

[faraway]

Honestly, I don't any of the married kids are fundie lite. It seems to me that they're basically not buying their own c*** anymore and enjoying their freedom while still thinking they're beautiful christian families. They changed some of their behavior, dress and rules without acknowledging it. I think they're way more basic than we think. And who's going to say anything about it? Gothard? IBLP? Their authority system has pretty much fallen apart and they moved up the latter with having their own TV show. They're probably so full of themselves and believe they must be doing the right thing because god is pouring blessings all over them and so many people aka leghumpers look up to them. I don't think even one of these kids has the mental abilities to reflect critically and step away from their parents bs and even communicate that.

[formergothardite]

3 minutes ago, faraway said:

They're probably so full of themselves and believe they must be doing the right thing because god is pouring blessings all over them and so many people aka leghumpers look up to them. I don't think even one of these kids has the mental abilities to reflect critically and step away from their parents bs and even communicate that.

Yeah, I don't think that they have thought deeply about anything they have done or any changes they have made. They get to watch whatever they want and wear jeans all while still being the poster children for IBLP. I'm sure they view this all as God blessing them while giving little thought to the people hurt by their parents or IBLP.  I don't see any of them on the path to being even slightly fundie lite. I think they are on the path to dressing more modern and watching television while still holding vile beliefs. 

I don't think any of them are capable of holding a real conversation about IBLP, their beliefs, the changes they have made and/or Bill Gothard. They can probably parrot back what they have been told to say but I doubt  think they would handle it very well if confronted with a person knowledgeable about IBLP/ATI/Gothard/Gil's long involvement who challenged them. 

[Arix]

53 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Yeah, I don't think that they have thought deeply about anything they have done or any changes they have made. They get to watch whatever they want and wear jeans all while still being the poster children for IBLP

Wait, have we seen girls other than Alyssa wear jeans?

[CrockpotsandGspots]

@imokit Thank you for the information about Ezzo! I will research that for sure especially as I look back into their old blog archives. My job involves freelance journalism so I need to see, and hear things with my own eyes before I make an absolute declaration about people. I do honestly think watching a torture, almost soft corn porn movie like Taken is very different than a chick flick. And with Zach's job as a real police officer I think seeing more of the outside world is changing him but I don't know him and I can't say that as an absolute. I can say the Bates don't care about safety because I meant the helmets in all aspects of the kids lives (not just horses) they are riding bikes, and doing all sorts of scary stunts that could clearly break necks with no safety equipment so, I can positively say that means they disregard safety because I have seen it occur more times than I can count. 

[Palimpsest]

6 hours ago, faraway said:

They changed some of their behavior, dress and rules without acknowledging it. I think they're way more basic than we think. And who's going to say anything about it? Gothard? IBLP? Their authority system has pretty much fallen apart and they moved up the latter with having their own TV show.

Yes.  This.  The Bates family is at the very top of the power curve right now.  We basically witnessed a coup at IBLP - but I remain totally unconvinced that we will be seeing a better IBLP under the new management.  They got rid of the huge liability that was Gothard - that is all.

It is not, and never has been, the clothes.  It has to do with basic beliefs, the (not) Wisdom booklets, the Character training, and the core ideology.  With the Bateses these all seem intact.

Their apparent loosening up on "courtship" doesn't mean much at all - especially given one very public failure (Zach) and another one still unresolved (Nathan).  

I actually have real contempt for both Kelly and Gil.  It is not enough to wipe the blog of Enzo endorsements and pretend they never happened.  In their position they should publicly announce that they have changed their minds and why.  They are fundamentally dishonest.

I keep saying this, but don't be fooled by Gil's good old Southern boy shtick or Kelly's superficial folksy charm.  They would not be where they are now at IBLP without being cunning, calculating and believing in IBLP/ATI propaganda up to their respective necks.