Jill, Derick and Israel- Part 16

[Fundie Bunny]

Apparently, derick's cousin got married yesterday. Has there been any sightings of the dillards? They might have came back from scary sintral amerika already

[Bad Wolf]

So they know Cathy's birth mother's name and year of birth. That in itself is pretty unusual, since records were usually sealed back then. Also, was that her maiden name? She could have got married and changed her name. Seems like Jill put out enough information for curiosity, but nothing substantive.

Oh, I forgot, this is a reality show. 

[lascuba]

5 hours ago, anotherone said:

Jill should imagine that her future adopted kid has a child and grandchild, then that grandchild wants to go and find adopted kid's "real" mother, because they publicly say, Jill's adopted kid's real mother isn't Jill.  She should think about that just to know how it sounds.  It also might give insight into her unconscious views on adoption.

I don't think she'd care, to be honest. I can't see her (or Jessa, for that  matter) adopting a child with the view that they will he HER child. Adoption for her will be an extension of her White Savior complex and nothing more. She will make sure that child knows everyday of their life how blessed they are because holy Jill did them the massive favor rescuing them from an orphanage.

17 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

So they know Cathy's birth mother's name and year of birth. That in itself is pretty unusual, since records were usually sealed back then. Also, was that her maiden name? She could have got married and changed her name. Seems like Jill put out enough information for curiosity, but nothing substantive.

Oh, I forgot, this is a reality show. 

She did it for attention, nothing more. There was no other reason to ask since she had the name and year of birth.

[CorruptionInc.]

Ah Jill... *facepalm*

[SassyPants]

None of these kids has any idea of how to appropriately exist in a society or community. They were so isolated in the cult and bathed in the JB/Gothardisms, they literally have no frame of reference as to how to conduct themselves in any situation outside their immediate family. 

Such an effin waste- 2 people who felt the need to reproduce like rabbits, yet who had no interest in raising those kids to become productive members of society.

Thus far, JB has made himself responsible for all of these eejits, but eventually they will all be unleashed on the world-God help us all. As terrible as this is, I secretly wish for secondary infertility for all those Duggars who are already married. 

They are all just so stupid.

Josh, thinking he could get away with the shit that he did.

JIll and this nonsense-Jill calling herself a midwife- Jessa marrying a teenager. 

How about the infant and toddler care? This should be their forte, but....nope. At toddler licking a fan, babies left on couches. 

No social skills- No critical thinking. No decision making ability. No empathy.

 

I sincerely hope that this was Cathy's wish and idea, and not Jill's.

[Mercer]

I fully support the right of adoptees to search for their biological families if they so desire. If Cathy would like to meet her first mother, that's absolutely fine. 

That said, I really feel Jill is (probably unintentionally) sabotaging Cathy's chances of having a positive reunion because she's bringing a lot of extra baggage to the table. 

The biological mother might be perfectly happy to have discreet, normal contact with Cathy but be reluctant to involve herself with reality TV stars and the surrounding publicity. She might be fine with taking things slowly and developing a relationship naturally, but be hesitant to jump into a situation where she is facing such high expectations of immediately acting as the great grandma in a family she doesn't even know yet.

Jill is being pretty demanding here (though she may not have the social skills to realize that,) and if she really wants this to work out, she needs to back off and let it be about Cathy and her biological mother, not about Jill/Israel.

[MatthewDuggar]

Have we figured out yet if Cathy was aware of this and/or sanctioned it?

Many have hoped and felt that Cathy was a pillar of normalcy despite Derrick becoming a Duggar, but I've been pretty skeptical from the beginning.   I don't have any proof, but I just have a feeling that there is much more to the story of both Bin & Derrick.  For all we know Cathy may have been a Duggar "fan-girl" and encouraged Derrick to seek out JB in the prayer-tinder in order to get involved....  Think  of Grandma Mary being all sweet yet we know she calls many of the shots behind the scenes.  

[2manyKidzzz]

I recall Cathy saying that Derick asked her to give his contact info to JB when he went to Nepal to save people. I never got extreme fundy vibes from her, but who knows. Derick seemed more normal when we first met him, but then he WAS in Nepal saving people who are Hindu, for the most part, and also some Buddhists I think. I think that is what he was doing. 

[Mercer]

Derrick is the product of an upbringing by Cathy.

Is it possible the apple fell very far from the tree and he became the way he is in spite of her rather than because of her? Sure. Is it likely? I don't know. To me it seems probable that Cathy had at least some influence on the adult Derrick became and the values he holds; most parents do.

I feel like it would be a strange double standard to hold the Duggars responsible for how their kids turned out but give Cathy a complete pass. All their kids ended up in basically the same boat, so I don't think it makes sense to single one parent out as a completely innocent party and blame the others.

[theinvisiblegirl]

40 minutes ago, MatthewDuggar said:

Have we figured out yet if Cathy was aware of this and/or sanctioned it?

Many have hoped and felt that Cathy was a pillar of normalcy despite Derrick becoming a Duggar, but I've been pretty skeptical from the beginning.   I don't have any proof, but I just have a feeling that there is much more to the story of both Bin & Derrick.  For all we know Cathy may have been a Duggar "fan-girl" and encouraged Derrick to seek out JB in the prayer-tinder in order to get involved....  Think  of Grandma Mary being all sweet yet we know she calls many of the shots behind the scenes.  

She hasn't tweeted anything about it since my last check of her Twitter account.

38 minutes ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I recall Cathy saying that Derick asked her to give his contact info to JB when he went to Nepal to save people. I never got extreme fundy vibes from her, but who knows. Derick seemed more normal when we first met him, but then he WAS in Nepal saving people who are Hindu, for the most part, and also some Buddhists I think. I think that is what he was doing. 

You know... Before reading your post right now? I've never once given any thought at all to what Derick was doing over in Nepal... I don't even know if I had any idea what he was doing.

19 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Derrick is the product of an upbringing by Cathy.

Is it possible the apple fell very far from the tree and he became the way he is in spite of her rather than because of her? Sure. Is it likely? I don't know. To me it seems probable that Cathy had at least some influence on the adult Derrick became and the values he holds; most parents do.

I feel like it would be a strange double standard to hold the Duggars responsible for how their kids turned out but give Cathy a complete pass. All their kids ended up in basically the same boat, so I don't think it makes sense to single one parent out as a completely innocent party and blame the others.

Complete speculation here, but could Cathy have sought a more deeper religious experience after her first husband died, which drove her to find some fundies? Though it wouldn't explain the stepfather who, for all intents and purposes, seems to dislike the entire circus that is his stepson's in-laws.

[twinmama]

20 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I agree that Jill is stepping way out of bounds if she's doing this without permission, but Cathy really might want to find her birthmother, and there's nothing wrong with that. Using her famous daughter-in-law could be helpful too.

Especially before Roe v. Wade there were a lot of women who really wanted to raise their children but were pressured into adoption. It's an interesting, sad era of American history. There's a book about it that I've been meaning to read for a long time. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/116477.The_Girls_Who_Went_Away

Did anyone else see the story a few months ago of a woman who found her birthmother at the age of 82? Her mother was 96. It was a really sweet story, though sad that they had to wait that long to meet when both mother and daughter were looking for each other. http://www.startribune.com/woman-82-tracks-down-and-meets-96-year-old-birth-mother/367798241/

The Girls Who Went Away is a fantastic read! I read it months ago after reading someone's recommendation here. It is so sad and frightening, but gives really good insight into why what Jill did, if it was without Cathy's explicit request for publicity, is a terrible idea. Even with Cathy's request it is not a good idea. Wait until you find the birth parent and then get their permission as it is 50% their story to tell or keep to themselves.

[Buzzard]

52 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

Complete speculation here, but could Cathy have sought a more deeper religious experience after her first husband died, which drove her to find some fundies? Though it wouldn't explain the stepfather who, for all intents and purposes, seems to dislike the entire circus that is his stepson's in-laws.

I never fully understood how Derick encountered Boob, setting this whole thing in motion.  He was in school, and then saving souls in Nepal.  How did they cross paths with the Duggars?

Is there a Gothard hospital ministry we're not aware of?

[SassyPants]

There is a huge difference between being mainstream religious and being a zealot or a cult member. 

Has there ever been any evidence presented that the Dillards are/were fundamentalists?

IIRC, Dericks's parents were married for 10 years before he was born.

They have 2 kids.

The kids (and the parents) are educated.

Cathy worked along the way.

The boys were involved in mainstream activities like scouting.

 

When did Derick turn? Was his father's death the catalyst?

[BlessedMajorNeglect]

1 hour ago, Buzzard said:

I never fully understood how Derick encountered Boob, setting this whole thing in motion.  He was in school, and then saving souls in Nepal.  How did they cross paths with the Duggars?

Is there a Gothard hospital ministry we're not aware of?

I thought Derick made fundie friends in college, and it was through one of those friends who knew the Duggars that Derick and Boob were set up to be prayer buddies? I know Boob considers the TV show to be a form of ministry so maybe there was something related to ministry support at one of the churches they attend?

[Buzzard]

It was never really hashed out.  If he has Duggar level friends they've been awfully quiet.

 

[Kira]

I thought Cathy and Michelle met while serving on the board of some organization? I also remember Derick saying he noticed Jill when he sang Christmas carols at the Duggars house. 

 

eta: I could be wrong about the board. Was that someone else?

Here's is a discussion about how Jill and Derick met: 

I never beieve fuindie courtship stories. They all say the same thing: They didn't noticed each other, they've never had a conversation before courting, etc. 

[Blueruin]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

Derrick is the product of an upbringing by Cathy.

Is it possible the apple fell very far from the tree and he became the way he is in spite of her rather than because of her? Sure. Is it likely? I don't know. To me it seems probable that Cathy had at least some influence on the adult Derrick became and the values he holds; most parents do.

I feel like it would be a strange double standard to hold the Duggars responsible for how their kids turned out but give Cathy a complete pass. All their kids ended up in basically the same boat, so I don't think it makes sense to single one parent out as a completely innocent party and blame the others.

I have a cousin who has drunk deeply of the fundie Kool aide and he is the supreme black sheep of the family. His mom puts up with it because she wants to be part of her grandchildrens lives. He came about his fundie-ism because of a really bad accident (he found religion) then a fundie girl (I believe they were allowed to hug and cheek kiss prior to marriage). No one else in the family is fundamental most of the family is atheist or practices native spirituality.

I do believe it's possible Cathy is normal and Derrick was turned super fundie by association and the promise of a wife.

[lascuba]

I don't know what to think about Cathy. Plenty of people grow up in relatively normal--or at least non fundie--families and still end up heavily involved in cults, so I'm wary of pointing a finger at her because of her mess of a son. But...that boy *IS* a hot mess, which makes me think that, Cathy really isn't the great beacon of normalcy that her pants and career make us think she is. Split the difference? She's a conservative(ish) Christian who, while having no interest in living anything like the Duggar lifestyle, admires that family as ideal of Christianity. 

48 minutes ago, Blueruin said:

I have a cousin who has drunk deeply of the fundie Kool aide and he is the supreme black sheep of the family. His mom puts up with it because she wants to be part of her grandchildrens lives. He came about his fundie-ism because of a really bad accident (he found religion) then a fundie girl (I believe they were allowed to hug and cheek kiss prior to marriage). No one else in the family is fundamental most of the family is atheist or practices native spirituality.

I do believe it's possible Cathy is normal and Derrick was turned super fundie by association and the promise of a wife.

That's another possibility I've wondered about. Derrick's so stupid and in so deep that he might limit contact with Cathy if she expresses too much skepticism over his beliefs or his in-laws. 

[JillyO]

1 hour ago, lascuba said:

I don't know what to think about Cathy. Plenty of people grow up in relatively normal--or at least non fundie--families and still end up heavily involved in cults, so I'm wary of pointing a finger at her because of her mess of a son. But...that boy *IS* a hot mess, which makes me think that, Cathy really isn't the great beacon of normalcy that her pants and career make us think she is. Split the difference? She's a conservative(ish) Christian who, while having no interest in living anything like the Duggar lifestyle, admires that family as ideal of Christianity.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. I think Cathy is a very conservative Christian who shares many of the Duggars' beliefs (and has instilled those beliefs in her sons), though she obviously does not share all of their ATI/Gothard ideas. For example, I am sure she is 100% anti-choice (though probably not anti-birth control), thinks homosexuality is a choice and a sin, sex before marriage is a sin (though probably not kissing) and believes everyone who is not an evangelical Christian is doing everything wrong.

She's obviously not as coo-coo as her son, but the apple didn't exactly fall super-far from the tree there either, I don't think. I definitely have strong doubts that she is the beacon of hope in J/D/I's lives many here make her out to be, and I have had rather negative feelings about her for quite a while (though I can't really put my finger on the 'why' of it).

[KnittingOwl]

10 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

So they know Cathy's birth mother's name and year of birth. That in itself is pretty unusual, since records were usually sealed back then. Also, was that her maiden name? She could have got married and changed her name. Seems like Jill put out enough information for curiosity, but nothing substantive.

Oh, I forgot, this is a reality show. 

It's creepy how much Jill's Twitter followers have dug up about birth mother and family. It's all publicly posted on Twitter. I'd be pissed if I was a member of birth family and information on my family was posted like that!

[Bbfamteam]

14 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

LIKE a thousand times! 

 

My oldest two actually felt sorry for the neighbor boy because they only had one mother. He had a mother, and they had a mother and a birth mother apiece.

 

AFAIK, if Cathy Byrum was adopted at birth, her birth information for the birth mother was sealed. It doesn't necessarily get unsealed unless someone legally requests it. My kids all know their birth parents' names, but if push came to shove, my and Mr. Four's names are on the birth certificates.

My husband's grandfather was adopted and from what I understand for the majority of his life was not interested in knowing anything about his birth family. Prior to his death, my mother in law convinced him to start searching and he signed paperwork to get his records but he passed away before anything was done.  My MIL got the file and had me read through his records prior to initiating her Internet search for the birth mother.  I immediately told her that I believed it was a shady underhanded adoption, not uncommon during the early 40's, and come to find out I was correct. His birth mother never stopped searching, never married, and never had any other children.  She died shortly before he did.  Cathy had to have known at least the name, which Jill's Sasquatch husband probably passed along to her.  

We were told if he hadn't signed the records requests before he passed the information would not have been released to surviving family no matter how curious. There are plenty of websites Jill could have looked at if she was that curious instead of posting her inlaws business on Twitter for the whole world to become involved in.  With a name and DOB, if Cathy had been interested, she could have easily found her birth mother if she so desired.  I know none of the Duggars are known for critical thinking skills but the social ineptitude and lack of insight surrounding adoption infuriates me.  I pray they never adopt because Jill will obviously not see that child as theirs.....or maybe in her magical thinking she will and not realize how hypocritical she is given her blatant disregard for her mother in laws adoptive family. After all they aren't Duggars. 

[nastyhobbitses]

On 6/2/2016 at 4:30 AM, PennySycamore said:

@PecanThief, that thing about wanting to find Cathy's birth mom so that Israel will know his "real" great-grandmother bothers me, too.  My oldest daughter has one adopted daughter and will shortly have another.  (They will go to China to pick up their daughter this summer.)  These granddaughters are just as "real" to me are the granddaughters two of my other daughters gave birth to.  

ETA:  I was going to post that I read this evening the the first case of a baby with ZIka caused birth defects was born in New Jersey.

I'm also imagining how it must sting for Derick to know that his wife doesn't consider HIS grandmother his "real" grandmother just because Cathy didn't come out of her cooch. How long until Jill R and Jill D meld into one super-insensitive/socially oblivious fundie Voltron?

[HumbleJillyMuffin]

28 minutes ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I'm also imagining how it must sting for Derick to know that his wife doesn't consider HIS grandmother his "real" grandmother just because Cathy didn't come out of her cooch. How long until Jill R and Jill D meld into one super-insensitive/socially oblivious fundie Voltron?

I agree, and am infuriated by JillyMuffin's actions. Yes she is mentally stunted thanks to her upbringing in the cult, but damn. This was WAY out of boundaries, even for these idiots. And while it would be Jill Rod's wet dream to be connected to a Duggar, I don't think the world is ready yet for a Jill Rod and Jill Dill Voltron. Just like the world isn't ready for another hair and makeup tutorial from Jill Rod.  

[nastyhobbitses]

51 minutes ago, HumbleJillyMuffin said:

I agree, and am infuriated by JillyMuffin's actions. Yes she is mentally stunted thanks to her upbringing in the cult, but damn. This was WAY out of boundaries, even for these idiots. And while it would be Jill Rod's wet dream to be connected to a Duggar, I don't think the world is ready yet for a Jill Rod and Jill Dill Voltron. Just like the world isn't ready for another hair and makeup tutorial from Jill Rod.  

Exactly. I always figured Jill wasn't the quickest tractor on the farm (combination of upbringing and just not being very bright, and the two fed into each other), but I know plenty of not-very-bright people who would never dream of being this insensitive or overstepping boundaries in such a way.

[lascuba]

12 hours ago, SassyPants said:

There is a huge difference between being mainstream religious and being a zealot or a cult member. 

Has there ever been any evidence presented that the Dillards are/were fundamentalists?

IIRC, Dericks's parents were married for 10 years before he was born.

They have 2 kids.

The kids (and the parents) are educated.

Cathy worked along the way.

The boys were involved in mainstream activities like scouting.

 

When did Derick turn? Was his father's death the catalyst?

I'm not sure about that. I mean yes, lifestyles are completely different, but I do think that mainstream religions do encourage zealotry...they're the primer, as it were. They often view fundamentalism as relatively harmless and therefore don't bother analyzing them and view such analysis as anti-religious. It makes complete sense to me that someone who grew up religious but not fundamentalist would end up in a cult. The basic beliefs are already ingrained, and if the personality is right for it, boom, we end up with a Derrick.