John Shrader: Lyin' King - Part 7

[clearingthingsup]

Lurker here.... Been lurking on FJ for awhile now but this is my first ever post! I just have to say how utterly amazing and fantastically funny (also simultaneously depressing) it is how accurate y'all portray John even though you're practically strangers. Having met and associated with the man you guys are on point. Can not believe it took me so long to see his narcissistic behavior. Honestly just felt it was a personality conflict for the longest time. But y'all are on point to a T. 

EA: Also apparently this is not my first ever post. My record says 4. lolz

[Drtwinkstutu]

1 hour ago, Gimme a Free RV said:

Yea, I fear he understandeth this not, for he yet refuseth to be of a kindred mind with the brethren and "sistren" of the land where he dwelleth.

Classic

[Season of life...]

@Gimme a Free RV said: "I also hope John's "seed" production comes to a grinding halt".

I agree; I hope the only "seed" John is dispensing in the foreseeable future is of the ranch flavored sunflower variety.

Actually, I doubt he shares any largesse from home, especially the sunflower seeds, though God knows if anyone deserves a 'push present', it's Esther.

C'mon John, toss her a bag!

[MayMay1123]

43 minutes ago, clearingthingsup said:

 Having met and associated with the man you guys are on point. Can not believe it took me so long to see his narcissistic behavior. Honestly just felt it was a personality conflict for the longest time. But y'all are on point to a T. 

 

you know you *have* to tell us the rest of that story...please!

[clearingthingsup]

3 minutes ago, MayMay1123 said:

you know you *have* to tell us the rest of that story...please!

Ha! Where would I even start?? Let's just say we weren't best friends even during the times I tried to get along with the jerk for nicety's sake. 

[slickcat79]

I'm probably overthinking this, but here goes.

Wiki identifies the language of the Tonga people in Africa as Chitonga*. Based on a small Chitonga dictionary that I found, the words for truth are ciini or bwiini. I did find a few references to the word Kasimpe in some Tonga bibles, but based on context clues the word seems to mean "behold"  It would very much surprise me if Shrader had accurately translated anything, even if he were using the words in his child's reward's name.

*They specifically say the Tonga people in Zimbabwe, so it's possible the Zambian communities are different.

[clearingthingsup]

10 minutes ago, clearingthingsup said:

Ha! Where would I even start?? Let's just say we weren't best friends even during the times I tried to get along with the jerk for nicety's sake. 

You all are spot on about his personality. In real life (not just his online persona) he is selfish, arrogant, prideful, boastful, uses others, lies when it suits his purpose, twists stories to make himself sound better, overlooks his wife and children except in cases where others can see and it makes him look better, manipulative, downright rude, thinks he's the only person capable of accurately interpreting scripture, the first person to tell you you're wrong and he disagrees with you, often lazy, makes mountains out of molehills, grandiose, over-spiritualizes everything, a bully, a name caller, easily angered, narcissistic, full of himself... Need I go on? All this and he is a master manipulator at making people genuinely like him in person. I am literally amazed and ashamed when I realize how long he led myself and so many others on. Part of this is due to the fact that when he realizes he's genuinely hurt or angered you to the point of getting himself in trouble, he is quick to come make a fake public apology to you (tears and all) to make himself appear more righteous and kind (though that's the furthest from the truth). He tricked me for a long time. I am deceived no more! 

[hollyandivy]

poor baby, for into that family! I wish him most of luck! And I sure hope, Esther is alright! And I hope even more she NEVER gets pregnant again!

[formergothardite]

6 minutes ago, clearingthingsup said:

You all are spot on about his personality. In real life (not just his online persona) he is selfish, arrogant, prideful, boastful, uses others, lies when it suits his purpose, twists stories to make himself sound better, overlooks his wife and children except in cases where others can see and it makes him look better, manipulative, downright rude, thinks he's the only person capable of accurately interpreting scripture, the first person to tell you you're wrong and he disagrees with you, often lazy, makes mountains out of molehills, grandiose, over-spiritualizes everything, a bully, a name caller, easily angered, narcissistic, full of himself... Need I go on? All this and he is a master manipulator at making people genuinely like him in person. I am literally amazed and ashamed when I realize how long he led myself and so many others on. Part of this is due to the fact that when he realizes he's genuinely hurt or angered you to the point of getting himself in trouble, he is quick to come make a fake public apology to you (tears and all) to make himself appear more righteous and kind (though that's the furthest from the truth). He tricked me for a long time. I am deceived no more! 

Do you happen to know if anyone questions the plane? I'm just amazed that he could get something that expensive, lose it and then nobody notice except us! 

 

[clearingthingsup]

5 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Do you happen to know if anyone questions the plane? I'm just amazed that he could get something that expensive, lose it and then nobody notice except us! 

 

I think if anyone's noticed, they're not suspicious enough of him to question it further. He's really good at deleting and blocking anyone who questions him about the plane - maybe it's too embarrassing? Idk what actually happened to it (would love to though!). Rea definitely doesn't have it though. Wouldn't make any sense for him to... He doesn't have a pilots license and their transportation around Zambia isnt all that difficult apparently. They can get to the "bush" in a 2-wheel drive van fromwhat i see on facebook. That "truth carrier" of John's is way overkill. It's not like Zambia is a crocodile infested grassland with no roads. There are roads. Smh. 

[formergothardite]

So Rea for sure doesn't have it? I was hoping the plane, like the printer, would go with Team Zambia. 

Do you know what really happened between Rea and Shrader? John paints himself as the victim, which I highly doubt, and it just all makes no sense. 

[clearingthingsup]

Just now, formergothardite said:

So Rea for sure doesn't have it? I was hoping the plane, like the printer, would go with Team Zambia. 

For sure he doesn't. Friends of friends have told me verifiably that he doesn't. I believe they're part of Reas home church so I'm certain they would know. Something like that? Rea is planning to build an actual school in lusaka, the majority of his work won't be out in the bush to my understanding. 

I'm fairly certain he just got suckered into buying a junk plane that won't even fly. For $20k. Just throw that in with all the other wasted money! ;P

6 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Do you know what really happened between Rea and Shrader? John paints himself as the victim, which I highly doubt, and it just all makes no sense. 

John was the "victim" if you call emailing every single church affiliated with the missions board to (angrily and hastily) let them know of the doctrinal dispute, essentially accusing the home church of being heretical, instead of handling the matter privately as was intended by both those on the missions board and in his original home church -- is that something that victims do? He started the huge "fight" by becoming angry, unreasonable, and unwilling to peacefully discuss the issues at hand. It was purely a doctrinal dispute, but after that it became more clear to those involved that were FAR MORE issues with John besides just doctrine. His very character causes him to come into serious question. 

[clearingthingsup]

That's how I essentially heard of the whole scandal in the first place. John did himself in by creating a scene with everyone on that mailing list. 

[Palimpsest]

5 minutes ago, clearingthingsup said:

That's how I essentially heard of the whole scandal in the first place. John did himself in by creating a scene with everyone on that mailing list. 

OK, questions:

How did you meet him?  Did you ever donate to John?  Did your church donate?  Which missions board and what mailing list?  Do you also know Rea?

[formergothardite]

We have had a poster whose church supported(and was still supporting) John. It seemed like her church didn't even think to look into John. The lesson all the churches who dropped John should learn is that they need to really look into and do research on a person before tossing money at them. Don't give money to any fool who shows up with a missionary fantasy. But sadly I don't think they will learn this lesson. 

 

[clearingthingsup]

4 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

OK, questions:

How did you meet him?  Did you ever donate to John?  Did your church donate?  Which missions board and what mailing list?  Do you also know Rea?

I met him at my church while he was on deputation. I never donated to him specifically but I give to missions so in a roundabout way I guess? Our church supported their family for awhile until the whole kerfuffle and I asked my pastor why we were cutting support and he gave me a brief rundown of what had happened. He even talked with John's homechurch's pastor after John's e-mail came through to get both sides of the story. I can't remember the name of the board specifically, I think it starts with a G? I do know Rea. Our church is still supporting him after the fallout. 

2 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

We have had a poster whose church supported(and was still supporting) John. It seemed like her church didn't even think to look into John. The lesson all the churches who dropped John should learn is that they need to really look into and do research on a person before tossing money at them. Don't give money to any fool who shows up with a missionary fantasy. But sadly I don't think they will learn this lesson. 

 

I would agree with you. I think people are easily caught up in the excitement and more pertinent questions need to be asked before deciding to support these efforts. 

[formergothardite]

I was IFB back a long time ago and none of the churches I was around would even think of sending a man to the mission field with that many small children. Questioning him about the kids education/health care, how much of the money would be going to support his family instead of supporting missions work and how he was going to juggle being a missionary and caring for his children would be the first thing for both him and Rea. 

What has happened in IFB churches that people have just stopped thinking about what is in the best interest of the children? Did anyone in your church question the wisdom of supporting men who had lots of children going to the mission field? I am still stunned that people like Rea and John get sent to the mission field. 

I really hope that the baby's face isn't really as covered up as it looks. 

[clearingthingsup]

12 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

I was IFB back a long time ago and none of the churches I was around would even think of sending a man to the mission field with that many small children. Questioning him about the kids education/health care, how much of the money would be going to support his family instead of supporting missions work and how he was going to juggle being a missionary and caring for his children would be the first thing for both him and Rea. 

What has happened in IFB churches that people have just stopped thinking about what is in the best interest of the children? Did anyone in your church question the wisdom of supporting men who had lots of children going to the mission field? I am still stunned that people like Rea and John get sent to the mission field. 

I'm not entirely sure. I know anytime people brought up the number of John's kids he would condescendingly state that he was following a biblical authority in keeping his quiver full and ask them why they didn't trust God more or some other arrogant jargon. I did see that he was arrogant at the time but I just thought it was personality clash and I guess I'm too naive/forgiving. IIRC, john only (lol) had 6 when they first went on deputation, so maybe that helped? Idk. He always was emphatic that they had a schooling plan (though I never saw evidence of it personally). I know I've seen the Rea kids doing schoolwork on FB though and David and Cheri are really emphatic that education is important when I've talked with them about it. They actually requested help gathering some schooling supplies for the kids from supporting churches. Apparently notebooks, pencils etc are a bit pricey in Zambia and easier to ship over. 

 

I'd also like to add that Rea has a much more helpful approach to going to help the Zambians than John does. John was kinda like "I'm not helping the native people period they need to learn to fend for themselves" whereas Rea takes the approach that he can help them find sustainable jobs. They have plans to build a school, work with an existing deaf school in lusaka (already doing this), help the locals build ovens to make and sell their own bread for a living (there is nothing like this there currently) and even self-sustain the school by teaching the teachers and older students to raise and sell chickens. It's definitely not all about $ and fame for him. 

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

Sorta off-topic right now, but...Do John and Esther have a posted biography somewhere, like a "how we met/courtship" story that so many fundie couples have?  I'm curious how they met and what John was doing 14/15 years ago.  

[englandgirl24]

What are the full names of John's kids?

[Palimpsest]

23 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

We have had a poster whose church supported(and was still supporting) John. It seemed like her church didn't even think to look into John. The lesson all the churches who dropped John should learn is that they need to really look into and do research on a person before tossing money at them. Don't give money to any fool who shows up with a missionary fantasy. But sadly I don't think they will learn this lesson. 

 

Remind me, who was that?  I famously missed all Shraderfriend's visits, @Milly-Molly-Mandy had a good anonymous source, @klavierspieler provided valuable information but I don't think it was her (very former) church that supported him.

The shocking thing for me has always been how often IFB churches chuck money at these church planting "missionaries" with little or no research.  It is really shameful - and sad.

[clearingthingsup]

1 minute ago, Palimpsest said:

Remind me, who was that?  I famously missed all Shraderfriend's visits, @Milly-Molly-Mandy had a good anonymous source, @klavierspieler provided valuable information but I don't think it was her (very former) church that supported him.

The shocking thing for me has always been how often IFB churches chuck money at these church planting "missionaries" with little or no research.  It is really shameful - and sad.

The biggest problem is the majority of the time missionaries are so booked on deputation they don't get a lot of time to meet and get to know the church. Pastors are expected to see that 15 minute YouTube presentation and hear the missionary speak once or twice, take them out to dinner Sunday night, and have a decision by the next week. I'm not saying that's how it should be, but unfortunately this is how a lot of churches handle it. It *is* very irresponsible. I'll be the first to admit that. A couple days is not long enough to get all the info on a mission you would need, and most churches are lucky if they get one entire day. 

[Palimpsest]

6 minutes ago, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

Sorta off-topic right now, but...Do John and Esther have a posted biography somewhere, like a "how we met/courtship" story that so many fundie couples have?  I'm curious how they met and what John was doing 14/15 years ago.  

Oh boy.  I don't think they have the "when Christian Harry met Christian Sally" bio anywhere.  As to what they were doing 14 - 15 years ago ... somewhere in the Archives we have John's own version of a resume.  He posted it on Pickles and Hairspray when he lost his temper spectacularly.  We saved it for posterity and made fun of it.

 

[formergothardite]

I cannot remember the poster's username. I think they only posted once or twice. But I asked if anyone in her church had asked John about his children and she said no. I'm pretty sure she said the church was still supporting him. 

Financially, it just seems unwise to send missionaries with lots of children into the field. A good bit of the mission money is going to be spent supporting the kids, not on missions. Two or three kids I can see, but when you start with five+ kids, a good chunk of mission money is just going to go to care for this missionaries family. Shouldn't churches want as much missions money to go to  actual missions work? I don't get why that wasn't brought up with Rea and Shrader. 

[refugee]

1 hour ago, slickcat79 said:

I'm probably overthinking this, but here goes.

Wiki identifies the language of the Tonga people in Africa as Chitonga*. Based on a small Chitonga dictionary that I found, the words for truth are ciini or bwiini. I did find a few references to the word Kasimpe in some Tonga bibles, but based on context clues the word seems to mean "behold"  It would very much surprise me if Shrader had accurately translated anything, even if he were using the words in his child's reward's name.

*They specifically say the Tonga people in Zimbabwe, so it's possible the Zambian communities are different.

Is it conceivable that he asked a local what the word was for truth, and the local told him, with a straight face, a word meaning something like asshole?