Jessa, Ben & Spurgeon - Those Smug Seewalds Part 2

[VelociRapture]

9 hours ago, Full enough quiver said:

I also envy people with a strong career drive. I've never had that. To me, working outside the home is the most stressful thing I can possibly think of. That being said, I'm not lazy. I cook, clean, and do laundry, and I homeschool. I do yard work and take care of our animals. I know it sounds cheesy, but I get fulfillment from serving my family. I will have to figure out the career thing eventually, though, and it is a huge source of stress.

I get embarrassed to admit it, but I'm the same way. I hated my job because I wasn't making a positive impact on anyone - I just sat around entering data into a computer system all day. The office politics was exhausting and I got paid next to nothing. It taught me to work with others better - but it wasn't worth the effort or drive.

I'm home now and we just got a puppy - taking care of the home and our family gives me so much more fulfillment and happiness than working ever did. I love making dinner for my husband - he's a great eater and always appreciated what I make him. I always love talking to people who enjoy working outside the home though - it gives great perspective into other points of view and it's always nice to see people excited about what they do.

[Mercer]

10 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

So...not working outside the home means someone expects others to take care of them?! Riiight. I'm quite capable of taking care of myself, thanks.

Being a stay-at-home mom or dad (or a homemaker without children) doesn't mean that, no. Household responsibilities can be divided all sorts of ways, and not every household member has to be earning an outside income to be an important contributor. 

In the particular situation that is the subject of this thread, though, it does mean that because neither parent is employed earning an income, nor were they before their child was born, nor do they show any serious interest in supporting their own family in the future. So... yes, by definition they are as a family unit expecting to be cared for by others. I don't think the point should be generalized beyond the Duggars, however.

[Chickenbutt]

I was a very career driven person and had a job I loved. I cared for people, made a difference in their lives, used my brain, and was well respected. I did it for 20+ years, then decided to retire. I worried about what I would do, who would I be? My identity had always been tied up in my work, my husbands work, and my kids lives. (We live in a small town and MrChickenbutt's career made him very visible) I had never not-worked in my entire adult life. After the first months of getting back into the swing of night time sleeping and having the whole day to do whatever I wanted, I found that I was not the type of person to sit around and watch TV all day. So I started looking around and thinking. I found things to satisfy that drive in me to help others, yet I can do it on my own time. Long story short, career driven didn't end for me after retirement, it just changed direction into plain ole driven.

[ClaraOswin]

6 hours ago, nastyhobbitses said:

I don't quite know how to put this, but this whole mindset of not having a very strong career drive is just so foreign to me. I understand that everyone has different life experiences and perspectives, of course, but it was drilled into me from childhood that I had to have a good job and a career that would earn me money and prestige. Both of my parents were lawyers (my dad is general counsel of a firm and my mom was a law librarian/lawyer until my sister was born), and I think my mom really missed her law career, which she gave up to be a SAHM. When I told my mom at age 6 that I wanted to be a princess, she told me that I needed to aim higher because princesses don't actually have any political power or a real job (debatable now that I follow all the stuff Crown Princess Victoria of Sweden does). Everything I've done in life has been with the end goal of launching a career. Sometimes I think about having a family, and I do have hobbies and interests, but I've been trained to be a workaholic. I think even if I never had to work another day in my life, I'd still get a job, or travel the world and work freelance type things/itinerant jobs. I can't imagine not working or studying.

The above is what is foreign to me...haha. My parents definitely encouraged us to do well in school and go to college (I did both.) They didn't do much in the way of pointing me towards any time of career or anything though. And as much as I love my parents, I don't think they instilled a great work ethic for me. (Obviously a lot of that falls on me as well.) We never had to do chores or anything really when we were older. Didn't have to get a job in high school. So my first job wasn't until college. The only job I ever sort of liked was working at a daycare in the summer time. I wouldn't say it was fulfilling or anything since I was basically a glorified babysitter. But it was fun.

From when I was little, I always wanted to be a mom. I'd be perfectly happy to never work again if I could. But financially I don't think that will be possible.

My parents basically just want us to be happy doing whatever we choose to do in life.

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

I find this debate very interesting. 

I think that, as someone pointed out earlier, there is a difference between the Duggars/Seewalds/Dillards/etc not valuing education and not valuing having jobs/careers, versus someone who, after having made the appropriate calculations, determines that it makes sense (financially, personally, etc.) for their family to have a stay-at-home spouse, or two part-time working spouses, or two full-time working spouses. 

I think that the Smuggars "examples" (sigh!) are not applicable to any of the posters above, luckily. What I read above are examples of people who have weighted their options and decided what is best for their families, without grifting it and endangering the psychological and physical health of their children. I cannot know for sure, but that's surely what it feels/reads like.

I come from a long line of extremely driven people, with the women, if at all possible, being even more driven than the men. My parents encouraged my brother and I to pursue our drives, but, for example, education was never an item up for discussion. We were told that college was the required minimum, graduate school the expectation. I wonder if they drilled it into us that much because they never had the opportunity (due to financial reasons - their country of origin is/was very different from the USA in that there is no such thing as student loans, very limited scholarships, etc.) to attend college, but still worked hard and, unlike their parent, would have been able to help us if we needed it. My mother used to tell us that the only way we would not pursue higher education was if we could present my parents with a detailed, well reasoned, serious plan outlining why higher education would be a waste of time for what we wanted to do in life. However, make no mistake, we were given no handouts - we were expected to pull our weight, get the grades, graduate on time/early. My brother did not work through college or grad school until his PhD, when he started teaching, but got through quickly and was awarded a tenured professor position at a university in his early 30s. I worked through undergrad, and through my first and my second master's, choosing also jobs that partially or fully paid tuition or rent (such as teaching assistant, student dorm RA, etc.) and yes, I got financial help from my parents over the years, but mostly put that help in savings that allowed me to put a nice down payment for a home later on. 

Why is this relevant? Well, being extremely risk averse, I want to have options and financial freedom as much as I can. I love my career, but, if for whatever reason (having children could be one, but not the only reason - life happens: think health issues, etc.) I decide that I want to take a break/reduce my workload/never return to my career again, I have options in place that will allow me to do that - those options include professional credentials, professional reputation, solid financials, conservative spending, and don't include Jesus and/or grifting and/or handouts/bailouts from other honest working people. 

[Chickenbutt]

I too, told my boys that college was not an option, but a requirement. My oldest came to us in his senior year and told us he didn't want to go to college. He hated high school, was lazy and had no motivation (who's child was this!?). His next option was to join the military, which he did. He is now a 33 year old single father of two little girls, employed full time and in school full time. He is getting his degree in Biology with the plan of enrolling in PA school next Spring. He just mentioned a few days ago how hard his life is and how he wishes he had done this way back when. Being the mom I am, I told him "I told you so", then applauded the better late than never attitude he has.

My second son when to college right out of high school, stayed until he had his Masters in Education and is a high school teacher. He is settled in his career, loves it and is currently planning his wedding and the building of his house.

These boys were raised in the same household, by the same two parents and are completely opposite in drive and motivation. I think personality plays a huge role in desires, educational and professional.

[Timetostoplurking]

This is such an interesting topic and...I want to add...so respectfully debated.   Thank you all!!

 

I'm a stay at home mom....I have been home with my 3 kids for 22 years.  I spend my day cooking, cleaning, shopping, taking care of all small annoying household stuff so hubs and I can have weekends for family and friends.  We have 12 acres with 60 apple trees that I take care of.   I do all household repairs and remodeling.   I have rebuilt our porch, installed hard wood floors. Remodeled bathrooms. Painted the house inside and out.  I could go on and on.  I also take care of our 20 year old severely disabled adult son.  (A full time job!)    So....yeah....I'm busy enough. I may not earn a paycheck but I have saved tons of money over the years with various projects.   I have even a started to help others with their DIY stuff for a little extra income.  I love being home and consider it the ultimate "luxury".  

 

The hardest part of being home is the comments from others.   "What do you do all day?" "What's it like being on vacation all the time?"  "I wish I could sit around all day and watch tv too!"   I just shrug it off.  I know, and my family knows, I'm valued.  I don't need to prove it to strangers.  

[albanuadh_1]

My mother always worked, out of necessity. Would have rathered  been a SAHM. The neighbours said she was lazy because she went to work. For the most part, I was a SAHM, people have told me I was lazy because I didn't work! lol

[OyToTheVey]

This discussion fascinates me. I was raised to work. My mom even back then was a doctor. My dad a businessman. I was raised where college isn't an option but a requirement. They always pushed me into careers I had no interest in like law and accounting. I regret going to college right away. It was a waste of money and time. Ended up working at a dead end job for 4 years after. I went back for my masters but don't currently work towards my career, family obligations. I honestly never had the drive to work and be a workaholic. I also never wanted to stay home and take care of a family. My one thing is wanderlust. Wanderlust is the only thing that's very strong in me. I have no desire to do anything else. I'm the type that wants to be anywhere but here. 

[justoneoftwo]

I will say that I think college as a requirement and not an option can be problematic.  That was my husband's family's attitude, and both he and his brother failed out.  On the other hand, doing something self sufficient or college seems like a good choice to have kids make.  

[nst]

12 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

This discussion fascinates me. I was raised to work. My mom even back then was a doctor. My dad a businessman. I was raised where college isn't an option but a requirement. They always pushed me into careers I had no interest in like law and accounting. I regret going to college right away. It was a waste of money and time. Ended up working at a dead end job for 4 years after. I went back for my masters but don't currently work towards my career, family obligations. I honestly never had the drive to work and be a workaholic. I also never wanted to stay home and take care of a family. My one thing is wanderlust. Wanderlust is the only thing that's very strong in me. I have no desire to do anything else. I'm the type that wants to be anywhere but here. 

as a teenager I had a hard time in school because learning was hard for me then. So I always had to study and have tutors - there was no time for a job.  Which essentially was a bad thing for me because my first job out of school kinda screwed me up for a while 

 I really wish I had gotten a job at McDonald's as a teenager besides the tutoring I could have made it to work - but my parents never supported that idea - 

wonderlust is a good thing 

[OyToTheVey]

14 minutes ago, nst said:

as a teenager I had a hard time in school because learning was hard for me then. So I always had to study and have tutors - there was no time for a job.  Which essentially was a bad thing for me because my first job out of school kinda screwed me up for a while 

 I really wish I had gotten a job at McDonald's as a teenager besides the tutoring I could have made it to work - but my parents never supported that idea - 

wonderlust is a good thing 

I never had a job in high school either! That was a bad decision. I was too lazy for good grades too. My parents thought school was my job. I wasn't very good at it lol

[Gimme a Free RV]

3 hours ago, Timetostoplurking said:

The hardest part of being home is the comments from others.   "What do you do all day?" "What's it like being on vacation all the time?"  "I wish I could sit around all day and watch tv too!"   I just shrug it off.  I know, and my family knows, I'm valued.  I don't need to prove it to strangers.  

When I was a SAHM with my young children, it infuriated me when my now-ex would come home, look around, and ask "What have you been DOING all day?"  Some days, I just survived.  Other days, I just enjoyed my children.  (Of course, on some of those days, when I was waiting for him to come home and provide a little relief from my mommy duties, he was "working late" [sleeping with someone else's wife].)

[ClaraOswin]

53 minutes ago, justoneoftwo said:

I will say that I think college as a requirement and not an option can be problematic.  That was my husband's family's attitude, and both he and his brother failed out.  On the other hand, doing something self sufficient or college seems like a good choice to have kids make.  

I agree. My son is only 2 (and he has developmental delays) so I don't know for sure what we'll encourage him to do in the future. But I don't think I want to make college a requirement. I want him to do SOMETHING with his life though. I want him to reach his fullest potential, whatever that may be for him. I just don't like the idea of only ONE option for his future at all.

I think that's the main thing for me. I don't like the idea of no choices. Whether that's parents saying you HAVE to have a super successful career and that's that. Or parents saying you HAVE to be a stay at home mom, or whatever.

[QuiverDance]

23 minutes ago, Gimme a Free RV said:

When I was a SAHM with my young children, it infuriated me when my now-ex would come home, look around, and ask "What have you been DOING all day?"  Some days, I just survived.  Other days, I just enjoyed my children.  (Of course, on some of those days, when I was waiting for him to come home and provide a little relief from my mommy duties, he was "working late" [sleeping with someone else's wife].)

Same.  My ex was such a douche about it.  He truly expected a spotless home and a gourmet dinner every night.  

[Chickenbutt]

To expand a little......our expectations for our kids was college. They had the choice to go or not. If they chose not too then the options were few. Join the military, or move out of our house and get a job and support yourself. Were we tough? Yes. No 18 year old was going to live in our house playing video games all day and doing nothing.

Both of my boys worked in high school and my youngest got thru 6 years of college with no debt and a little help from us.

Not every child can go, or is meant to go, to college given financial/academic/educational restraints. But every child should be encouraged to reach his/her potential whether it be college/trade school/or just being the best they can be.  

[twinmama]

On 1/24/2016 at 8:38 PM, ExLuther said:

I am someone who feels fulfilled working, so I must ask what makes people who are the opposite feel fulfilled? I am, of course, asking respectfully. 

That's a good question! I don't really know what "fulfilled" feels like exactly, but I am very happy with my life. Taking care of my kids, playdates, and all that stuff. There are of course parts I don't like (um, potty training, that sucked), but it's just a good life. 

On 1/24/2016 at 9:32 PM, Ofglen said:

For the majority of people, it depends on the work you're doing. If I'm just selling myself to capitalism, I'm not interested in the slightest. Doing something that impacts others positively? Sign me tf up. 

If you don't feel like the work you're doing is meaningful, what's fulfilling about that? Not all work is the same, imho.

This is a good way to define the fulfilling. It works for me being with my kids everyday. I see them be caring with schoolmates, or learning something and I'm proud. I teach them a song and they know something new. They're like little blank slates that I get to watch fill up! For me, I can't think of anything I could do that is more meaningful than putting two great new people out into society.

17 hours ago, ClaraOswin said:

I am the same way. I know that when my son is older...I will have to find work. I have a college degree but I don't really care to do anything in that field. So I have no clue what I will do. I try not to think about it too much right now though.

So...not working outside the home means someone expects others to take care of them?! Riiight. I'm quite capable of taking care of myself, thanks.

This one makes me laugh, as if the only thing required to take care of someone is to make the money. My husband does make the money for our family, but that is one thing he does to support the family. I do other things. We obviously can't live without the income, but there are lots of things I do that we can't live without either! Not sure I'm expressing this the best, but not having a job doesn't mean anything other than someone else makes the money (which is what you are saying too I think Clara). 

And I'm in the same place for the future. I want to always be home when my kids are home, so when they start full day school, I would only want to work until 2pm or so. I really never want to work in an office again, but I love kids and can see teaching some kind of kid gym class or something. Who knows!

[biblelandjunkie]

since Jessa doesn't work outside the home....I wonder what she does all day... wonder what her schedule is like...does she go to the grocery store or such or does she get food from her parents storage pantry?  I am sure curling her hair and doing her makeup doesnt take all her morning....

[Shouldabeenacowboy]

1 hour ago, Chickenbutt said:

To expand a little......our expectations for our kids was college. They had the choice to go or not. If they chose not too then the options were few. Join the military, or move out of our house and get a job and support yourself. Were we tough? Yes. No 18 year old was going to live in our house playing video games all day and doing nothing.

Both of my boys worked in high school and my youngest got thru 6 years of college with no debt and a little help from us.

Not every child can go, or is meant to go, to college given financial/academic/educational restraints. But every child should be encouraged to reach his/her potential whether it be college/trade school/or just being the best they can be.  

I think you have expressed my thoughts better than I have! 

My parents expected us to pursue higher education, but, had we come to them with, say, "I think college will be a waste of our time and money, I have no interest in further studies but I want to do an apprenticeship in X/I have found a job at Y...etc" they would have been OK. Not thrilled, but OK. At least that's what they always told us. Both my brother and I were academically hungry, so not going to college was not an option we ourselves would consider.

What my parents WOULD NOT have agreed to is exactly what you stated: no college, no job, no plan for self-sufficiency, no interests. Thanks for explaining more clearly than I did what I meant!  

[MatthewDuggar]

2 hours ago, biblelandjunkie said:

since Jessa doesn't work outside the home....I wonder what she does all day... wonder what her schedule is like...does she go to the grocery store or such or does she get food from her parents storage pantry?  I am sure curling her hair and doing her makeup doesnt take all her morning....

I don't follow the Seaweeds on social media...  I wonder how it's going with baby Spurgie?  Is she breastfeeding?  Does he sleep nights?  For some reason I see them both probably being rather frazzled handling a baby by themselves

[Grace]

15 hours ago, biblelandjunkie said:

since Jessa doesn't work outside the home....I wonder what she does all day... wonder what her schedule is like...does she go to the grocery store or such or does she get food from her parents storage pantry?  I am sure curling her hair and doing her makeup doesnt take all her morning....

How old is Spurge anyway? Would she be done with maternity leave even if she was  working a normal job? I can tell you what I did when I had a new baby that age. 

I took care of my baby. I nursed around the clock. Watched a fair bit of Netflix because that much nursing means lots of sitting. I googled "is________ normal for a newborn" a lot. I napped during baby's naptime still because we were not sleeping at night much.

I did lots and lots of laundry. I cleaned up around the house when I could.

Once a week I took him out and went grocery shopping.

I'm not going to snark on a mom with a newborn not working outside her home. Jessa is making money the only way she knows how to, frankly. It's not like it would be acceptable in her world for her to have another  career.  She is earning more money than I did. Ha. But they for sure need to be thinking about ways they can support their family without being celebrities because that is not a good lifetime plan. For now, their only expenses are pretty much food, utilities and car gas and insurance (assuming they got free cars from the Duggar Fleet) It really doesn't take much to cover that. They might be able to get by for a while on doing speaking engagements and sponsored social media plus blog revenue. Hopefully they are working on Ben having a set of skills in addition to being a "pastor." Because most pastors I know have also worked a regular full or half-time job. Also because I think he'd make a terrible pastor and is way too young to be one anyway.

 

[karen77]

12 hours ago, MatthewDuggar said:

I don't follow the Seaweeds on social media...  I wonder how it's going with baby Spurgie?  Is she breastfeeding?  Does he sleep nights?  For some reason I see them both probably being rather frazzled handling a baby by themselves

Well, she is definitely posting less on Instagram, that is for sure.

[nst]

5 minutes ago, karen77 said:

Well, she is definitely posting less on Instagram, that is for sure.

because how many times she can post her not holding him 

um Never 

 

[quiverofdoubt]

1 hour ago, Grace said:

How old is Spurge anyway? Would she be done with maternity leave even if she was  working a normal job? I can tell you what I did when I had a new baby that age. 

I took care of my baby. I nursed around the clock. Watched a fair bit of Netflix because that much nursing means lots of sitting. I googled "is________ normal for a newborn" a lot. I napped during baby's naptime still because we were not sleeping at night much.

I did lots and lots of laundry. I cleaned up around the house when I could.

Once a week I took him out and went grocery shopping.

I'm not going to snark on a mom with a newborn not working outside her home. Jessa is making money the only way she knows how to, frankly. It's not like it would be acceptable in her world for her to have another  career.  She is earning more money than I did. Ha. But they for sure need to be thinking about ways they can support their family without being celebrities because that is not a good lifetime plan. For now, their only expenses are pretty much food, utilities and car gas and insurance (assuming they got free cars from the Duggar Fleet) It really doesn't take much to cover that. They might be able to get by for a while on doing speaking engagements and sponsored social media plus blog revenue. Hopefully they are working on Ben having a set of skills in addition to being a "pastor." Because most pastors I know have also worked a regular full or half-time job. Also because I think he'd make a terrible pastor and is way too young to be one anyway.

 

Thank you!

that is a rough time for moms, was for every mom i know.  I don't know why people think caring for a newborn, especially your first, is so easy that it's a cinch to also work a part or full time job on top of it.  Mom's how work outside the home have all my respect.

At that point my life sounded like yours grace- but don't forget the huge amount of diapers. and googling "what's wrong with my baby" and pacing, rocking, driving around, swinging etc a baby who just won't stop crying.  Most days i brushed my teeth, but the days and nights run into each other and you forget to take care of yourself. Not to mention attempting to get your prebaby body back, while you're always hungry from nursing a baby.

None of the duggar girls have been equipped to do anything other than be a housewife- that's all their parents expected or wanted of them. She would have to get more education and training in order to qualify for anything above absolute minimum wage. And she would have to do that against her fundie beliefs and while caring for a baby.  It's really up to bin to figure out how to support them, without Jessa's celebrity income.

[Grace]

21 minutes ago, quiverofdoubt said:

don't forget the huge amount of diapers. and googling "what's wrong with my baby" and pacing, rocking, driving around, swinging etc a baby who just won't stop crying.  Most days i brushed my teeth, but the days and nights run into each other and you forget to take care of yourself. Not to mention attempting to get your prebaby body back, while you're always hungry from nursing a baby.

 

We used cloth so I was changing mountains of diapers and then having to wash and hang them out to dry! Haha

I'm not a vain or prissy person, so it wasn't that much of a change for me to not get up and do hair and makeup but I wouldn't be surprised if Jessa wasn't curling her hair every morning. But if she does? GOOD FOR HER if that makes her feel like a normal person instead of a zombie milk machine. I still think she's probably a bitchy person that I wouldn't be friends with even if she had my type of religious and political leanings, but this is tough time for a huge % of women and I hate to hear a woman put down for a completely normal life experience.