Fundie family?

[Cartmann99]

58 minutes ago, halcionne said:

I don't know for certain, but I suspect that "inactive" is where members get categorized if they don't log in for a long time (like six months or so), to save bandwidth or something along those lines. But I'm not an IT person and really have no idea what I'm talking about.

Normally, this is the case. Unfortunately, after the latest FJ software update, some issues were discovered and brought to the attention of the FJ tech team. I know of one member who is definitely active, but found herself switched to inactive after the update.

If you are having an issue or just don't understand how any of the new features work, I encourage you to visit the tech support section of FJ. They will try to help you and won't make you feel stupid if computers are not your area of expertise. 

[Anonymousguest]

I really really really disagree with the rad post. Makes me feel a bit ill to think of parents reading that book. Most  people I know with RAD kids have a hard enough time loving their kids and ignoring the hostility and not talking it personally.  To have it validated that the kid is indeed manipulative,  controlling,  deceitful,  etc could be really damaging for some families. Fortunately most of the families I know have their kids in counseling and are aware that is essentially  brain damage. 

 

I thought it was interesting that they got married by a judge before their actual wedding because they were"moral" and being tempted.  Somehow being married in the eyes of the law made sex legitimate and ok? 

Also,  is interesting they would join ati, as Gothard and ATI are very anti adoption. I have known people to be rejected for having adopted kids. There is additional paperwork and a lengthy review process by the board. Maybe they are getting more desperate lately? 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Hi @5kids6months, I am an educator,  I work with drug addicts and see every day the consequences of bad parenting of abused children.  Not all drug addicts were abused as children,  but the vast majority did. And those who weren't physically abused were psychologically and emotionally stunted in their growth by emotional abuse by manipulative, unreliable or too rigid and detached parents, parents who never listened to them, rejected their children as wrong and manipulative and so on. I cringed reading the post about RAD, please take that book and burn it in the stove, it's  the best use you can put it to. Then stop judging your children and start to listen and try to understand.  They suffered so much abuse it's not likely they will forget it even after many years experiencing stable unconditional love. Also if you want to teach them unconditional love you have to shower them with it, without conditions, without even Bible's conditions. Others pointed out that too many details on your children's life and sensitive data are on the web. It doesn't matter if you put them on a little blog for your acquaintances when everyone can read them and potentially use them to damage or exploit your children, please consider removing or better privacy settings. 

[blessalessi]

After reading this post again, it strikes me that this couple has a longstanding tendency to make quick, impulsive decisions, and deal with the consequences later.  I worry for the children's future, if they can't get a handle on their own behaviour.

Shannon was 16 when they first started a one-on-one relationship and impulsivity is common in teenagers.  But Brian...? I wonder if the reason for his previous difficulty in finding a mate is that he was still very very immature as a person in his mid-late 20s, roaming around between ChikFila restaurants in different states,  and this was possibly obvious to all but Shannon.

http://5kids6months.blogspot.co.uk/p/brian-and-shannon.html

Quote

Brian and I met while working at Chick-fil-A. Brian started working at Chick-fil-A when he was 15 years old and over the next 10 years had worked at over 5 Chick-fil-As in FL, GA, NC, and TN. When I was 14 years old I was hired at the Chick-fil-A he was managing.

A couple days before my 17th birthday, in May 2004, Brian came to visit an old co-worker's graduation party.

...

We exchanged phone numbers and AIM accounts and began to keep in contact daily. We would each come up with 3 questions a day to ask the other and quickly became best friends....He confided in me about his struggle in always being a girl's best friend but rarely the boyfriend. We were tired of dating.

We knew everything there was to know about each other, the good and the flawed and began to come to the realization that we could get over this crazy 11 year age gap ...Friendship, quickly, turned into marriage and we were engaged in August 2004, yep only 3 months after we begun our relationship as friends. After 4 months of a long distance relationship I moved away from home and in with my fiance.

At the time we were both very moral and as temptations rose we felt it would be better if we sealed the deal, on October 18th, 2004 we ran off to the courthouse and were married. We continued planning and saving up money for our wedding ceremony as planned and it was held March 9th, 2005, 2 months before I turned 18. 

Brian and I have grown closer with every obstacle we have overcome together! In 2007 after years of getting into debt (we bought 2 new cars, a house, and had credit cards and other loans) we were in over our heads and close to drowning. We thankfully found Dave Ramsey's teachings and after a couple years of Brian working over-time, me working 2-3 jobs at a time and selling TONS of stuff we were able to pay off over $50,000 in debt and the only debt we had left was our mortgage. 

In a hotel room, on one of our vacations Brian saw a special on TV about Kirk Cameron and began to do research on this man who up and left all the glory of Hollywood for God. That research led him to Way of the Master where he was convicted of his own sin against a holy and just God. In October 2008 Brian surrendered his life to Jesus Christ. Now, I thought I was a good person, I was very moral. I didn't like this God that called me a sinner. I challenged Brian's new faith, I refused to go to church or watch his silly sermons online. It was the biggest struggle our marriage has endured. Brian was changed, though he was always kind to me, this new Brian didn't allow me to push his buttons, he loved me through my fighting. I wanted that overwhelming peace and constant joy that began to flow out of my husband. In January 2009, God called me and like my husband I surrendered all and followed Jesus. 

God instantly called Brian to evangelism. Brian would tell everyone he came in contact with about Jesus, he even went to the Ambassador's Alliance Academy in CA to train as an open-air preacher.

Throughout 2009 God began to put on my heart and later Brian's His call to care for the orphans. Now, I truly thought I wouldn't ever have children, well, maybe 2, MAX, when I was older, I was only 22 years old, I had time. God made it clear to us His will in December 2009 when we visited a local children's home which housed several children without parents in foster care. Although hidden away in a "home" instead of an "orphanage" it didn't make their plight any different. They were in need of parents. 

In January 2010 we stopped planning our future and gave our family planning forever to God, we stopped any form of contraceptive for good. That same month, we also signed up with our local agency to attend the MAPP class, which is the first requirement of any foster or adoptive parents. The next available MAPP class wasn't until September 2010, nine agonizing months away. That is when we entered the waiting game, aka "adoption pregnancy", and I don't wait well, but while waiting I learned I can PAINT (click here for my page of artwork on FB), who knew!?! 

We prayed for God to open whatever door He willed, whether through natural birth or foster care. Through some grief and no pregnancy we continued forward with our calling, filled out miles of paperwork, jumped through a dozen hoops and became licensed as foster parents on June 3rd, 2011. Our family grew quickly from June to December 2011, as we didn't just welcome 2 foster children into our home, as planned, but 5!

Now let me tell you the reality of our lives. Yes, we knew foster care was God's plan for us, yes, we were willing to follow that path, but, no, we did NOT know how difficult and challenging it would be. We are human and realized through this journey how weak and frail we were. I cried in secret for weeks after our first arrival of 3 children. I met with our pastor's wife. I begged close friends to not let me send them away no matter how hard it got or how tempted I was. It wasn't the children per se, just the overwhelming life change, and the constant, ongoing needs to be met as a new parent. In the same month I quit my full-time job, started a new part-time job, and traded in my first, beloved, car for a minivan. As the children's case progressed and changed behavior problems began to arise. In that first year I was yelled at, lied to, stolen from, called names, and hit. We had the police out to our house to bring back runaways and talk to thieves on several occasions. I was called to the school Principal's office to pick up a child and was at the doctor's office with a sick infant at least once a week. Parenting proved to be difficult, draining, and even tempting to quit at times. 

The greatest part? It taught me to rely heavily on God's strength and pray without ceasing. My faith has tremendously increased through that year of storms. I begged God to give me a love like Jesus, to truly love and sacrifice myself for these children despite their behavior. God proved to be faithful time and time again, He strengthened me and healed my hurting children!

Now, Brian and I are the happy parents of 5 beautiful children! We are no longer parenting hurting children, but healing children. We are just normal parents with the normal challenges of parenting. 

We love God, we love each other, and we LOVE our family!

Shannon, you are an adult now, and you have experienced significant struggles as a consequence of the rash choices you and Brian have made over the years.

You have acknowledged yourself that your initial severe distress as a mother came about becauuse of the rapid change in lifestyle. Please take care of yourself and take some time if you can to reflect on the rapid change in each of these little ones' lives as they were sent to you, through no choice of their own.

You describe yourself as the organizer, Brian as the laid-back one.   You were still practically a child when you made your financial mistakes early in marriage, but Brian was a grown man. Maybe you should think hard before letting Brian lead your family into any more quick life-changing directions, and allow your family to live a quiet life, out of the spotlight for a change.  

Accept practical help, but think hard about the doctrine that is being shared with you by Ted Tripp and all.  Use your analytical brain and question everything. You are clearly a survivor, but I suspect that it doesn't help much that Brian sometimes acts like the sixth child in the family, rather than the adult father of five.

[WhiteRun]

There are many ways to honor god and put him first in your life however ATI is not the place. 
To Train Up A Child is often used as source material for raising children however it's nothing but abusive garbage that uses tactics such as beating children with plumbing line and large tree branches for no reason. 
IBLP is currently under investigation for years of sexual abuse against children that was covered up. In all these cases of abuse the young women were told it was their fault. 
I admire you for adopting children into a loving family unit. But ATI is an abusive cult where control over women and children is their tactics. You and your family don't deserve that. 

[DaisyD]

Well, she posted to fb that our big problem with her is the age gap. She clearly doesn't care/hear what we're actually saying.  Oh well. 

 

I tried reading her blog, but there was waaaaay too much "His glory" stuff on there for me. After Kim's blog, my eyes are liable to get stuck mid roll at this point.

 

I think she's like the Sparkling One in the way she throws herself into an identity. If she's only been Christian for 6 years, she's fallen into the deep end really quickly. Since Brian decided evangelism was the way to go as soon as he "got saved" (I've always hated that term), it seems they're both that way. Go all in or don't go at all.

 

I think ATI changed their policy on adoption some time ago. Various Duggars have been talking about adopting for a few years now.

[formergothardite]

I suspect that it is way easier to talk about the issue of the large age gap than to address the tough issues that involve things like ATI. I will be surprised if she comes back here to address the many, many, MANY problems with ATI and why they decided to get involved with an organization that has such a nasty history. 

[onlyme]

Yep, rather than listen to what people are actually saying, pull out the persecution complex because anyone who sees trouble with what you're doing must be a hater. *sigh* I really wish I could shake sense in these young women, but I know I wouldn't have listened either.  Well, we tried. 

[DaffyDill]

Wow, that's really disappointing.  I thought she was better than that. Her post here wasn't the usual "You are all just big meanies!" stuff we've seen before.

Oh Shannon, really? Just the age thing? You know that's not true, and God frowns upon those who lie...

[Coy Koi]

She is being so disingenuous. The age thing is an INDICATION that there are likely to be things wrong, it is not the THING that is wrong. If I knew people who got together at their ages but everything seemed fine otherwise (highly unlikely, but not IMPOSSIBLE, I believe), I'd think it was weird but not necessarily all that bad. If I knew someone who aligned themselves with such a poisonous organization, that would be horrible no matter what other background factors were or were not involved. It's more correlation than causation. They got involved with ATI because they're the types of people who do a lot of questionable, ill-considered things.

Also, while they renamed all of their kids (they do continue to call one of them by her original name, despite changing it legally for no reason, so I give them +.5 points for that), after reading some, I realized with horror that they had renamed Samuel even though he had ALREADY been renamed by the original family that adopted him. So this poor kid has had four names in his short lifetime, three of which he knew as his name (they said he was abandoned at a few months old, and that the Chinese orphanage had called him one name, so I assume he'd had a different name before that). Then his first U.S. adoptive family changed his name, then Shannon and her husband did again.

The bullshit they all spout about how it was the kid's choice makes me want to stab someone. You're talking about a little kid who obviously has SEVERE abandonment issues that most of us should thank our lucky stars we can't even begin to fathom. This kid is thrown into yet another completely unfamiliar situation and expected to adapt to it, while also doing the hard work of just learning and growing up that every kid does. Why would you even MENTION changing his name as a possibility, even if he could theoretically decline? Do you not think he realizes that it's being mentioned because his latest in a parade of caretakers have SOME preference on the issue? His agreeing to it means nothing. He's not in a meaningful position to refuse.

Now, sure, there are exceptions, like kids with truly problematic names, such as those kids who were named after Nazis. I wouldn't keep my son as "Adolf Hitler", of course, but maybe he could be called something that sounded similar, like Aidan. And I would grieve for the fact that the extreme inappropriateness of his given name required a change, which might further hurt him and his likely-fragile sense of identity (but would hurt him less than continuing to be called Adolf Hitler). I wouldn't be like, "Yay, fun, time to get out the ol' name book and rename another 8-year-old!"

[blessalessi]

It's also not just the age difference per se, but the stage of development they were at when they got together.

Brian was a grown-ass man playing "ask me 3 questions!" with a teenager.  And it seems like it was an effective way to discuss loads of things at a superficial level, without actually getting to know very much at all before moving in together at lightening speed.

I'm also concerned for the emphasis that Shannon places on the fact that Brian is not hot but it doesn't matter. I don't think that was prompted by anything said here.  She seems to be projecting her own anxieties there, perhaps.

[Iamhispurity]

To me, it´s problematic that some of the adoptive kids are to old to be her biological kids (maybe if she had been a real young teen mom). That is something the system should prevent because to me that is more like siblings. I think you are too young to parent teens, Sharon.

In Germany, the child protective services do not allow these kinds of adoptions because the adoptive parents are supposed to function as parents, not siblings.

[formergothardite]

"People are questioning our age difference" gets lots of sympathy on FB. "People, many of whom have been raised in this organization, are questioning the wisdom of joining a cult like group whose founder had to resign over abuse allegations and whose board is currently being sued for covering up abuse AND this organization has never recanted their teachings that adoption will bring sin into a home.", well that is not going to get a whole lot of FB sympathy and is going to get people asking questions. 

She just wanted persecution points. 

[blessalessi]

19 minutes ago, Iamhispurity said:

To me, it´s problematic that some of the adoptive kids are to old to be her biological kids (maybe if she had been a real young teen mom). That is something the system should prevent because to me that is more like siblings. I think you are too young to parent teens, Sharon.

In Germany, the child protective services do not allow these kinds of adoptions because the adoptive parents are supposed to function as parents, not siblings.

It is also problematic that Shannon and Brian stopped using contraception at the same time as pursuing adoption.

She has posted several times about the grief of infertility. Neither an acute stage of grief nor the possibility of pregnancy is a healthy thing going into adoption.  

But of course the family problems are all about the children's "RAD".  Nothing to do with Shannon and Brian's emotional states and maturity levels. Not at all. Nope. No.

 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

I think who compared her to the sparkling one really nailed it. We will see. 

I was a bit  when I read that it was one of the daughter's idea to go all modest wearing...I have a hard time believing it.

ETA I find the children's stories quite creepy, the first three ones refer to their adoptive parents as "Mr Brian and Mrs Shannon" and all, one especially, would talk a lot about God with their birth mother in a "preachy" way, I really find it strange. Also one actually says he enjoyed spending "quality time" with the new dad. It's a strange choice of words for a child, I question how much editing Shannon did.

[blessalessi]

The more I read, the more disturbing things I notice too, @laPapessaGiovanna. I think it is horrible to promote the idea of using adoptive children to proselytize to their first families (my interpretation of sgat is going on there).  It is horrible enough that the families had to be separated, adding the burden of "eternal separation" into the mix is beyond cruel.

 

[SpoonfulOSugar]

2 hours ago, laPapessaGiovanna said:

ETA I find the children's stories quite creepy, the first three ones refer to their adoptive parents as "Mr Brian and Mrs Shannon" and all, one especially, would talk a lot about God with their birth mother in a "preachy" way, I really find it strange.

The name thing is actually a very common approach in some regions of the US (for me, in particular, in the South, but also among some French Acadians) - I don't find it odd at all.  It's less formal than Mr. and Mrs. Last Name, but still shows a degree of respect.  I can think of one high school I worked with where the teachers/adults were routinely called Miss and Mister.  I'm more comfortable with Mr. First Name than asking a child to use Mom and Dad if they are not ready.

[blessalessi]

This is particularly repugnant from Mirabel's testimony, who was 7 when she first came to live with Brian and Shannon.

Quote

"I became very angry after I found out I wouldn't be able to go back to my birthmom. I missed her and wanted to live with her again. I kicked, screamed, ran away 3 times, said I hated my foster parents, and hit my foster mom. The police came and got me each time I ran away. All that time God was watching me. My foster mom came into my room, I sat in her lap, she told me the whole story of why I was taken away and why I could not return, she didn't hide anything from me. I remember her telling me that she didn't know why God didn't make a baby grow in her or why I had to be taken away but what she did know was God works all for good to those who love Him. We cried and hugged and over time I began to realize that this was a good home where I was fed, loved and could have fun."

It was utterly wrong of Shannon to bring her own infertility into the discussion about Mirabel's grief and distress. And entirely inappropriate to share the gory detail of the child's early abuse in order to manipulate her current feelings.

In that moment that Mirabel was returned by the police, she needed comforting and calming, and for gentle, firm boundaries to be put in place around safety and respect for others, whilst receiving love and respect for her own little self. 

Life stories from the first family should never be used against a child in that way, to manipulate them into feeling grateful, when they actually just feel understandable anger and grief for their own loss.

Eta, I know that children do need to hear their own life stories, and tthat foster parents are human and won't get it right all the time, but the fact that this story has become a key part Mirabel's public testimony suggests that Shannon has not yet begun to reflect on her own part in the problems she experienced in that first year of parenting.

[blessalessi]

Brittney was totally objectified and put out in the press as a "grace and favor" story. I blurred the faces for a little anonymity.

Quote

Once upon a time a baby was born. A baby that had a story. A story of heartache and hurt but also a story of grace and favor.

This story begins in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit, the NICU, with all the machines, busy nurses and beeping monitors. There a baby girl, born a micro-preemie, breathed with the help of a machine, her tiny 1lb 8oz body rising and falling with every breath. The doctors stood like giants over her almost too small to see body knowing that she had 5% or less chance of survival. This baby’s bed became her home, her beeping monitors were her only source of soothing.

Five long months passed and this baby’s 17 year old mother never came once to see the precious life that she bore. No relative, no friend, no parent came by this baby’s side to encourage and stimulate her to fight for health, for love, for life. No family to hold her, touch her, hold her tiny hand or kiss her itty bitty forehead. But God had great favor and grace upon this baby and against all odds the Giver of Life caused her to survive. 

 

[FundieFarmer]

I struggle with the adoptive moms who write these long, melodramatic tales about their children's lives before New Mommy came into the picture. I was adopted in an age and society where it just wasn't talked about, and I find that much, much easier to deal with than what these kids go through, what with their lives all over social media and family websites and "prayer groups". It wasn't easy either to feel like I could never ask questions about my adoption, but that was more of an internal family issue than anything else. But still, I would take that over being constantly reminded about how my "Forever Family" had "rescued" me from my terrible life and how God had saved me for something greater and all the other baloney some of these adoptive families go on about. 

I had a friend who adopted and was that kind of mom. Among other things, it was a major reason I finally needed space from her. Her savior complex masked with an "It's all God!" attitude literally made me queasy to hear. I just hate that attitude.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

Thanks for sharing @FundieFarmer

[FundieFarmer]

Thanks, @laPapessaGiovanna.

The thing that just gets me is that we read these blogs and can fall into the trap of thinking that this stuff is just written for the sake of the readers, when in reality, some of these families speak like this to their adopted children day in and day out. I know not all do it, and I've loved finding an awesome community of great adopteds/adoptives here. But I have heard moms give similar spiels to their kids as the ones we read from 5 Kids and the Bergey Bunch, masked under the guise of redemptive love and praising the forever family. In reality, it's terribly destructive to the kids and really just serves as an ego-build for the "self-sacrificing" moms. I hate it.

[desertvixen]

Agree with @SpoonfulOSugar - Mr. Someone and Mrs. Someone is still respectful, but doesn't force kids to use a title they aren't ready for.

That's really a sore spot with me, because there were a ton of people who expected me to call my stepfather "Dad" and to change my last name to his.  (Step, not adopted, but similar idea at play)  Luckily my mom didn't force me to do either.  He's been my stepfather for 32 years, and I still refer to him by a nickname.

[nelliebelle1197]

Where do these people live anyway?

[laPapessaGiovanna]

http://5kids6months.blogspot.it/p/faq.html?m=1

http://5kids6months.blogspot.it/p/homeschool.html?m=1

I can't comment. Too much WTFery. I the other thread about them I read that they sold their home  to live...you guessed it, in a RV. I can't find info on the blog so I hope it isn't true.