Fundie family?

[chaotic life]

That book is really not better than Nancy Thomas except it makes you feel obligated to follow the same adversarial viewpoint as BIBLICAL. I don't know if it still is but that book was highly promoted by Timberdoodle at one point.

I read it, I saw it impacting how I saw my kids, I burned it and detoxed from it.

[halcionne]

This family has been discussed a bit on FJ. I watched one of their vids and read a couple of posts. I came away with the distinct sensation that I was watching a family fall into the IBLP cult in real time. I won't look at the blog again. 

http://www.freejinger.org/topic/23552-proof-the-duggars-spank-with-a-rod/?page=3#comment-958687

[Toothfairy]

4 minutes ago, halcionne said:

This family has been discussed a bit on FJ. I watched one of their vids and read a couple of posts. I came away with the distinct sensation that I was watching a family fall into the IBLP cult in real time. I won't look at the blog again. 

http://www.freejinger.org/topic/23552-proof-the-duggars-spank-with-a-rod/?page=3#comment-958687

Yikes. They're slowly turning fundie

16 hours ago, chaotic life said:

They appear to have good hearts and started out on the right track. But as often happens, the more you sip the kool aid, the more punitive and negative you'll grow. They formally joined ATI this year. Their style of parenting will change the longer they stay in ATI, which dictates much about your personal lives in order to maintain your membership status.

Omg. This is sad. These poor kids

[violynn]

I read through the 5kids6months blog a while ago, and I just got more sad and angry the further into fundie-ism they sank.  I stopped reading before the last 'Newer Post' entries, so I don't know how deep down the rabbit hole they eventually went, but just reading her story of finding Gothardism and beginning to adopt the rules made me sick.  It was akin to watching a train you know is going to jump the tracks and crash and being unable to stop it.

 

Now, reading Heresyintheheartland, Jeri's blog, was a fresh drink of cool water relief.  It is always so awe-inspiring to me to see how people begin to find their way out of oppressive cults.  Jeri's blog has already sent me ordering 3 new books, and I'm only half-way through the blog.

Shannon-train wreck     ...   Jeri, watching someone claw her way OUT of the rabbit hole into the world.  

[Toothfairy]

15 hours ago, dianapavelovna said:

I like a lot of what Shannon writes - the post about taking her daughter to her birth mom's wedding, the post where she describes how she handled food hoarding. I think I might really like her if she weren't a fundie. But I have trouble getting past the fact that they got married when she was 17 & he was 28 after first meeting when she was 14 and he was her boss.

Also, super eyeroll at this post: http://5kids6months.blogspot.com/2013/10/what-does-bible-say-about-reactive.html

protip: the Bible does not say SHIT about "RAD" (or RAD).

This stupid woman.  Please anyone with a RAD child seek professional help. Not the bible. It's not the kids fault he has RAD. 

[December]

24 minutes ago, Walking Cat Bed said:

Yep. I noticed right off that she looks VERY young. I re-read the "how we met" story three times to make sure I was reading it right; I wanted so badly to believe that he was 25 and she was 17 when they met, not 14. That's creepy. An eleven-year age difference when the younger person is still a teenager is very, very creepy.

Yeah, it's definitely weird. I'm mid-20s now. Thinking back to who I found attractive in my mid-teens, and why I liked them, makes me realize how much my tastes in personality, physical appearance, etc. have changed in ~10 years. I can understand how couples that get together in their teens can change and grow together, but not this kind of disparity in ages and life stages. 

Hopefully they can turn around from the ATI stuff before their kids suffer too much. It sounds like they had good intentions adopting the kids, but the kids deserve both loving parents and adequate help for any conditions they may have.

[Toothfairy]

Does anyone know how this will affect the adoptions? I mean gothard hates adoption.  And she can't get pregnant on her own. Gothard hates infertile women.  I already see she's using her adopted kids for the prolife movement. Making them change their name. Wear skirts. Collar shirts. Homeschools. This is sad.

15 hours ago, December said:

It sounds like they have a lot of good intentions adopting these children. But there's some things that definitely strike me as "off," as others have already said. The very detailed backgrounds on the children and their adoption circumstances seem unnecessary and invasive for a public blog.

The name changes really confuse me. Maybe someone who is an adoptee or has adopted can shed some light on this question, but is it normal/advisable for parents to change an older adopted child's name? I get changing a baby's name, because they're not old enough to really have formed an identity around it. But most of these children were a few years old when they adopted them. 

It has to be done with caution.  That's their identity and all they have left after losing everything.  Name changes is a big topic in the adoption community.  Especially for older kids. If you're going to change their name, they should have input.  If the child doesn't want their name changed then the adoptive family should respect that. 

[Catey]

My parents changed my name at 3

 

I was Elizabeth and was changed to Catherine. I still will turn my head if I am in public and someone yells out Liz.

The funny thing is that they changed my name to further distance me from my past. they should have asked me 1st I would have been happy to tell them that my Bio Mum's name was Catherine, as was my sisters. Trust me pretty awkward these days to introduce myself Catherine and my sister Catherine....

[Toothfairy]

Yep they went to big sandy for the ati conference. http://5kids6months.blogspot.com/2014/04/fun-and-fellowship-in-big-sandy-texas.html?m=1

[imokit]

Interesting how in her gushing ATI post she takes pains to distance herself from Gothard, by saying its a ministry they like, but its just like any other homeschooling conference.

[alexandracabot]

She just posted on Facebook about considering head covering. So definitely going deeper. 

[JillyO]

I think the family looks really off because she looks so darn young. Seriously, I kept looking for a picture of the mom on the blog until I finally realized that the girl who looks about 15 is actually the mom. I'm not being snarky, I honest to God think she looks about 15 or 16. I guess she's around 26 in reality, which would make her husband 37. He is pretty much the exact opposite; he looks at least mid 40s. So yeah, basically, I'm seeing man in his fourties, a teenager and a bunch of kids. I can't get over it.

Off to actually read some of the blog posts.

ETA: I just showed Mr. O a picture of Shannon and asked her how old he thought she was. He guessed 15.

[FundieFarmer]

I'm seeing the same thing, @JillyO. It's not to be snarky at all. It just messes with my perception of the situation.

[imokit]

I'm with those who think that as a couple they look 

Old man with teenage girl - I know she's mid 20s, but that's what it looks like,

and going with the ati crowd as an infertile couple with adopted kids who are ethnically diverse - its going to be very hard socially (lots of the judgey - look at them with no blessings from god, going on behind closed doors)

[5 Kids 6 Months]

Hello, I'm Shannon from 5 kids 6 months. I would love to ease any of your minds. Please ask me anything! So our blog was never planned to get "big" it was just a little page for our family and church to get an easy update on how quickly life had changed for us. The first year and a half after the kids came was SO HARD I couldn't start a blog even though people kept saying, "oh Shannon, you need to write about that." I told God until I saw and felt some hope I wouldn't write and if I did it would be for one purpose to glorify Him. Well, here we are and way to many people like to actually read my ramblings. The blog, although primarily written by me, is our family blog. The kids are always saying, "mom post this, post that." 

Okay now to two main comments that keep getting brought up. The age gap is weird, I know, but I am posting on it now on our FB page to address that. Also, the name change thing gets brought up a lot on here and on our page. Our kids chose there new names and are super proud of them. If anyone ever compliments their names they instantly light up and tell them the meaning. Our kids came from hard (and I mean HARD places). Being called their name in a certain tone could trigger traumatic memories. We gave the kids a huge baby name book and months of thought and prayer went into those names. They picked up to 3 names and as a family we chose what suited each of them best. Then we left their previous names as middle names giving them the option to be called their previous name until they were ready to transition. All of our kids transitioned super quick, some before they were adopted. It was me that kept calling them their old name and them saying, "moooooommmmmmmmm, I am such and such now!" They owned the names before I did. As for Britt our special girl since she cannot come to that decision to choose a new name we chose hers yet she will go by Brittney for as long as it takes for her to request to be called her new name, which may be never and that is okay. I need to post about that decision, it is one that confuses people.  I am a real, down-to-earth lady, a little too sarcastic yet I do really want to honor God and love people that God puts in my path! 

Oh, well I just noticed that under my name it reads: "You're All Going to Hell" 

Yep, I did not put that. That is cute Admin....

[samurai_sarah]

3 hours ago, 5 Kids 6 Months said:

(snip)

Oh, well I just noticed that under my name it reads: "You're All Going to Hell" 

Yep, I did not put that. That is cute Admin....

All new members get that title.

[onlyme]

On 12/8/2015 at 5:23 PM, chaotic life said:

They appear to have good hearts and started out on the right track. But as often happens, the more you sip the kool aid, the more punitive and negative you'll grow. They formally joined ATI this year. Their style of parenting will change the longer they stay in ATI, which dictates much about your personal lives in order to maintain your membership status.

This. So sad, but it changes people. Watch and see in a few years. 

[sawasdee]

I have been fascinated reading your blog - I think that you are probably an amazing Mom! Your kids are beautiful,and seem to enjoy life. You have, without doubt, rescued some children from a terrible life. I have appreciated your understanding of such problems as food hoarding, and the insecurity it springs from. In terms of adoptive families whose blogs I follow, you are undoubtedly one of the stars!

I think that one of the things that has concerned some posters here is the rigidity of ATI, and that you are subscribing more and more to that system of teaching. Not only to those observing, but also to many here who grew up with in an ATI background , it is an environment that is limiting rather than challenging children to achieve all of which they are capable. Girls, particularly, are not encouraged to excel intellectually, but rather to become submissive helpmeets. They seem also to be taught that they are temptation incarnate, and any failing by a male is, at root, the fault of a defrauding female. This also seems to disempower males, implying that they have no control over their own actions. I, and many others here, do not find either of these a healthy way to raise children to an educated, independent adulthood.

If I have misunderstood the teachings of ATI, please forgive me, and I would appreciate  an explanation of where I have got it wrong.

[onlyme]

5 kids... I am a mom on the other side of a lot of these teachings. I never joined ATI, (didn't have the money, wanted to for a while.)  but I did follow Quiverfull, Vision Forum, and a lot of these kinds of teachings. I have 10 kids and I have been homeschooling for over 20 years. These things RUINED my marriage. The legalism of these groups have totally turned my kids off from any kinds of church involvement. My daughters have anxiety attacks because of all the shaming they received over their clothes and any kind of interaction they had with boys-completely innocent interaction. My oldest didn't kiss until she was engaged (at 22), yet she constantly felt shamed. I deeply regret bringing these kinds of teachings into my home. 

I am not anti large family or homeschooling. But I would STRONGLY encourage you as an older woman who has been there, done that, stay away from ATI, the strong patriarchal groups, etc. They promise you so much but they take their dues, demand your obedience and time and give so little in return. Also, read blogs like "Darcy's Heart Stirrings" for viewpoints from kids that were raised ATI and have a lot to say about the nonsense they endured. I am not trying to criticize you at all, I understand the allure-the happy families, (in the photo shoots) the promise of a peaceful home on days when things seem beyond chaotic. But it isn't all it seems. 

ETA: I also know the temptation of "Well, that's the way they were but we will be different." But these things have a way of creeping into the mind. You don't know how it will change you-the tiredness and self condemnation because you can't live up to all the standard, the rigidity that becomes part of your mindset, the way the voices of the community get louder and louder and anything on the outside that can hold you in balance get quieter and quieter. Please! Run! Run away fast! 

[blessalessi]

Have the children each been individually diagnosed with RAD by a trained child psychiatrist?

The behaviours you describe don't seem so much to suggest RAD to me.  It is a very rare diagnosis.  Your emotional struggles unfortunately suggest that you were maybe simply utterly overwhelmed by taking on so many very needy children in a short time.  

Here you seem to claim that you didn't choose your struggles with your children.  Sadly, in choosing to adopt so many children so quickly, without the faintest clue what you were getting into, I'm afraid to say I think the outcome was very likely a consequence of your extremely poor decision-making, rather than any psychiatric disorder on the part of the children.

Quote

I chose willingly to become a foster parent, even jumped at the chance like an overzealous servant. I chose to have my home checked constantly by the state, to become a counselor and a help to the bio parents and to become a mom to hurting kids. But I didn’t choose the hurt that would be inflicted on me in the process. I didn’t choose the endless lies, the overwhelming theft or the cunning manipulation. I didn’t choose to have to have the sex talk with a 4 year old or to have to train a child to give affection appropriately. I didn’t choose the many police calls about vandalism, suicide threats and run aways. I didn’t choose the tremendous loss of friends, baby-sitters or family support. I didn’t choose the incessant chatter, the head-spinning questions or the rough language. I didn’t choose the verbal abuse, screaming and hitting yet the fake charm turned on around strangers. I didn’t choose the smell of urine everywhere, the daily hidden soiled underwear, or the mysterious poop smears. I didn’t choose the depression, anxiety, intense stress, guilt or anger...

You recommend Tripps' Shepherding a Child's Heart to your readers.

Do you hit your children?

[formergothardite]

5 hours ago, 5 Kids 6 Months said:

Hello, I'm Shannon from 5 kids 6 months. I would love to ease any of your minds. Please ask me anything! So our blog was never planned to get "big" it was just a little page for our family and church to get an easy update on how quickly life had changed for us. The first year and a half after the kids came was SO HARD I couldn't start a blog even though people kept saying, "oh Shannon, you need to write about that." I told God until I saw and felt some hope I wouldn't write and if I did it would be for one purpose to glorify Him. Well, here we are and way to many people like to actually read my ramblings. The blog, although primarily written by me, is our family blog. The kids are always saying, "mom post this, post that." 

Okay now to two main comments that keep getting brought up. The age gap is weird, I know, but I am posting on it now on our FB page to address that. Also, the name change thing gets brought up a lot on here and on our page. Our kids chose there new names and are super proud of them. If anyone ever compliments their names they instantly light up and tell them the meaning. Our kids came from hard (and I mean HARD places). Being called their name in a certain tone could trigger traumatic memories. We gave the kids a huge baby name book and months of thought and prayer went into those names. They picked up to 3 names and as a family we chose what suited each of them best. Then we left their previous names as middle names giving them the option to be called their previous name until they were ready to transition. All of our kids transitioned super quick, some before they were adopted. It was me that kept calling them their old name and them saying, "moooooommmmmmmmm, I am such and such now!" They owned the names before I did. As for Britt our special girl since she cannot come to that decision to choose a new name we chose hers yet she will go by Brittney for as long as it takes for her to request to be called her new name, which may be never and that is okay. I need to post about that decision, it is one that confuses people.  I am a real, down-to-earth lady, a little too sarcastic yet I do really want to honor God and love people that God puts in my path! 

Oh, well I just noticed that under my name it reads: "You're All Going to Hell" 

Yep, I did not put that. That is cute Admin....

I have one bit of advice for you, run away from ATI. Run fast. It is a cult that will destroy your life and the lives of your children. Don't listen to the Duggars, don't listen to the Bates, and for sure don't listen to anything that pervert Bill Gothard wrote. Realize that ATI preys on people like you, people who want to do what is best for their children. It gives you the answers, but they don't tell you the high cost of following the teachings of ATI. So run and don't look back. Realize that it is all a lie and all the teachings were written by a man who spent decades exploiting teens to built his empire and grooming young teen girls to be his "companions". 

Also, don't blanket train and avoid Michael Pearl and Ezzo. 

 

[Eternalbluepearl]

1 hour ago, onlyme said:

5 kids... I am a mom on the other side of a lot of these teachings. I never joined ATI, (didn't have the money, wanted to for a while.)  but I did follow Quiverfull, Vision Forum, and a lot of these kinds of teachings. I have 10 kids and I have been homeschooling for over 20 years. These things RUINED my marriage. The legalism of these groups have totally turned my kids off from any kinds of church involvement. My daughters have anxiety attacks because of all the shaming they received over their clothes and any kind of interaction they had with boys-completely innocent interaction. My oldest didn't kiss until she was engaged (at 22), yet she constantly felt shamed. I deeply regret bringing these kinds of teachings into my home. 

I am not anti large family or homeschooling. But I would STRONGLY encourage you as an older woman who has been there, done that, stay away from ATI, the strong patriarchal groups, etc. They promise you so much but they take their dues, demand your obedience and time and give so little in return. Also, read blogs like "Darcy's Heart Stirrings" for viewpoints from kids that were raised ATI and have a lot to say about the nonsense they endured. I am not trying to criticize you at all, I understand the allure-the happy families, (in the photo shoots) the promise of a peaceful home on days when things seem beyond chaotic. But it isn't all it seems. 

ETA: I also know the temptation of "Well, that's the way they were but we will be different." But these things have a way of creeping into the mind. You don't know how it will change you-the tiredness and self condemnation because you can't live up to all the standard, the rigidity that becomes part of your mindset, the way the voices of the community get louder and louder and anything on the outside that can hold you in balance get quieter and quieter. Please! Run! Run away fast! 

Thank you for sharing this. Very interesting. Thank you for getting your kids out. 

[Toothfairy]

Please don't join ati. You seem like a good family. Not many folks will take on special needs kids.  But ati ruins lives.  Run away. Quickly. Your kids don't need more trauma.  Yes it looks promising but it's not. Stay away from anything ati related.  Just look at recovering grace or stories here from the damage ati has done.

 

Your blog has too much personal information about your kids. As far as the name changes,  it still a bit unclear to me. Did the kids really want a name change? Or did  you talk them into it, gave them a baby book, and force the name change on them? 

[notfundy]

I hope you come back to this thread, @5 Kids 6 Months since there is much good advice here.  It's great that you came here (onto this thread) to offer to answer questions.    I've read your blog a bit and you certainly have an interesting story, and I agree with others who posted here that groups like ATI can be very, very damaging to children, families and especially women and girls.  

Question for anyone (from FJ) who might know - what does it mean to be "inactive"?? as a member; I imagine it means more than just being offline.   I went to 5 kids 6 months' profile to ensure I was spelling her screen name correctly, and that's what it says under her name - that, and she hasn't been back online for nine hours or so.

 

[halcionne]

40 minutes ago, notfundy said:

I hope you come back to this thread, @5 Kids 6 Months since there is much good advice here.  It's great that you came here (onto this thread) to offer to answer questions.    I've read your blog a bit and you certainly have an interesting story, and I agree with others who posted here that groups like ATI can be very, very damaging to children, families and especially women and girls.  

Question for anyone (from FJ) who might know - what does it mean to be "inactive"?? as a member; I imagine it means more than just being offline.   I went to 5 kids 6 months' profile to ensure I was spelling her screen name correctly, and that's what it says under her name - that, and she hasn't been back online for nine hours or so.

 

I don't know for certain, but I suspect that "inactive" is where members get categorized if they don't log in for a long time (like six months or so), to save bandwidth or something along those lines. But I'm not an IT person and really have no idea what I'm talking about.