Erika Shupe *grim rictus* Large Families on Purpose Part 3

[Granwych]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2015 at 10:07 AM, princessmahina said:

Well, it's pretty much impossible to have a creative, imaginative spark in you if you're a fundie- particularly if you're second generation. Since none of them can think of anything particularly poignant, they just write the same old garbage over and over again, pretending it's something new. Sometimes I really feel for those fundie women- they write a lot about "crying out to God" at all hours of the day and night. Their misery is palpable through my computer screen, no matter how many joyful moments they write about.

How it is that these benighted femmes can't figure out that God's got earplugs in gets me.

12 hours ago, lawlifelgbt said:

I have to wonder what she did to break the "difficult" kids. If they're now the perfect little mini-Erika's she wants...something bad must have happened to make that change. Because we all know Erika doesn't subscribe to gentle parenting.

I sincerely doubt that Erika will admit that any one of her unfortunate offspring remains difficult.  Those poor, poor children.

[IrishCarrie]

I reckon she's figured out that semi-starved kids have less energy and therefore don't give her hell quite as often. Naturally she dresses it up as healthy eating and fostering self control, but the reality is that a hungry kid will do just about anything for that jelly bean.

[apandaaries]

3 minutes ago, IrishCarrie said:

I reckon she's figured out that semi-starved kids have less energy and therefore don't give her hell quite as often. Naturally she dresses it up as healthy eating and fostering self control, but the reality is that a hungry kid will do just about anything for that jelly bean.

She really does seem to be starving them into submission.  

[princessmahina]

I would be willing to bet that some of Erika's children are like her- stubborn and with a desire for control (although I think everyone would desire the amount of control that comes with picking your own flavor of jelly bean). I like to think Erika gets a taste of her own treatment from those kids sometimes. 

[Hisey]

43 minutes ago, IrishCarrie said:

I reckon she's figured out that semi-starved kids have less energy and therefore don't give her hell quite as often. Naturally she dresses it up as healthy eating and fostering self control, but the reality is that a hungry kid will do just about anything for that jelly bean.

Yes. This sums up my thoughts on Erika's parenting philosophy. Most six-year olds will do just about anything for candy. But a hungry six-year old, whose had salad for lunch every day, and green smoothies for breakfast, would be twice as eager to obey if he is promised a jelly bean.

I really don't think it's teaching them healthy eating by feeding them boring salads as a main staple, and then rewarding them with the worst kind of junk food. Where is the balance, the moderation, the reasonably sized portions of tasty but healthy food? I'll bet those kids leave home and never eat a salad again. 

I think there is a lot of sneaking in Erika's home. That's the reason there are all these locks, baby gates, safes, fences. But there are nine of them and only one of her. Does she lock up the jellybeans when she and Bob go out on date night? Does she count them ahead of time? Does Karen take them out and dish them out to the kids? I'll bet that extra Costco-size bag of jellybeans gets "lost" pretty frequently ("Karen, I saw it on the shelf just before Bob and I left for the Olive Garden. And did you eat your protein bar for dinner?")

[princessmahina]

They used to have a babysitter come over and watch the kids. I think if I was that babysitter, I'd bring food with me for them. Or order a pizza. It doesn't seem right that they get such a meager dinner after a light lunch and a light breakfast. They're growing kids- I wonder if she's ever figured out how many calories, etc. the kids are getting in a day, and if she found those amounts acceptable. 

[mango_fandango]

56 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

They used to have a babysitter come over and watch the kids. I think if I was that babysitter, I'd bring food with me for them. Or order a pizza. It doesn't seem right that they get such a meager dinner after a light lunch and a light breakfast. They're growing kids- I wonder if she's ever figured out how many calories, etc. the kids are getting in a day, and if she found those amounts acceptable. 

What I find ridiculous is that Erika says these snack dinners are a "treat". They actually seem to get decent dinners most of the time. What the fuck is so "treat"-like about a protein bar and popcorn?? To me a treat would be a giant Domino's pizza (not just a couple of slices either) with sides etc, or some other kind of takeaway. A few years ago she posted a New Year album; one of the photos was of their dinner: popcorn and raw veg. I swear. THAT was dinner?? On such a special occasion too? Good grief!!

[princessmahina]

56 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

What I find ridiculous is that Erika says these snack dinners are a "treat". They actually seem to get decent dinners most of the time. What the fuck is so "treat"-like about a protein bar and popcorn?? To me a treat would be a giant Domino's pizza (not just a couple of slices either) with sides etc, or some other kind of takeaway. A few years ago she posted a New Year album; one of the photos was of their dinner: popcorn and raw veg. I swear. THAT was dinner?? On such a special occasion too? Good grief!!

I don't get it either. As a kid, that would not have been a treat. That would have been "mom's depression is too bad for her to make dinner and there's not enough money to order a pizza." Maybe the kids are so desperate for something that isn't green that they enjoy it? Maybe they tell Erika they enjoy it so they don't get two salads in one day? Maybe they have to "enjoy" it or they get a beating? My mind boggles sometimes thinking about those poor kids.

[Eternalbluepearl]

 My heart breaks for the Shupe kids but not for their perceived lack of pizza or the fact that they are served salad as children.

[iweartanktops]

I am still catching up here, but I did just notice that the LFOP Facebook page is labeled as an "Education Website."  

[princessmahina]

46 minutes ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

 My heart breaks for the Shupe kids but not for their perceived lack of pizza or the fact that they are served salad as children.

I love salad, but I don't want to eat it every day like they have to. I wouldn't feel for them for eating it if they ate it all spring, summer, and early fall (but got soup in the winter) either. It's more that their diet is so restricted and calorically deficient and that their treats are so abysmal, especially compared with Bob and Erika's. It's about more than the salad. 

[Antimony]

4 hours ago, Hisey said:

Yes. This sums up my thoughts on Erika's parenting philosophy. Most six-year olds will do just about anything for candy. But a hungry six-year old, whose had salad for lunch every day, and green smoothies for breakfast, would be twice as eager to obey if he is promised a jelly bean.

I really don't think it's teaching them healthy eating by feeding them boring salads as a main staple, and then rewarding them with the worst kind of junk food. Where is the balance, the moderation, the reasonably sized portions of tasty but healthy food? I'll bet those kids leave home and never eat a salad again. 

I think there is a lot of sneaking in Erika's home. That's the reason there are all these locks, baby gates, safes, fences. But there are nine of them and only one of her. Does she lock up the jellybeans when she and Bob go out on date night? Does she count them ahead of time? Does Karen take them out and dish them out to the kids? I'll bet that extra Costco-size bag of jellybeans gets "lost" pretty frequently ("Karen, I saw it on the shelf just before Bob and I left for the Olive Garden. And did you eat your protein bar for dinner?")

Karen, quite literally, takes them out and shows them to the kids on the night of babysitting.

http://www.largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2015/05/incentives-rewards-for-childrens.html

"For 3 or 4-year-olds we use "visible points" because a scribble on a sheet of paper means nothing to them. A teenager gets 5 points out and puts them in a clear glass cup or mini-bowl (i.e. 5 chocolate chips, M&M's, gummy bears...you get the idea). 

At the beginning of the evening the teenager shows the younger children their cup and cheerfully explains what that is for and when she will get to eat them (which is the next morning - explanation for this to follow). "

[imokit]

23 minutes ago, Antimony said:

Karen, quite literally, takes them out and shows them to the kids on the night of babysitting.

http://www.largefamiliesonpurpose.com/2015/05/incentives-rewards-for-childrens.html

"For 3 or 4-year-olds we use "visible points" because a scribble on a sheet of paper means nothing to them. A teenager gets 5 points out and puts them in a clear glass cup or mini-bowl (i.e. 5 chocolate chips, M&M's, gummy bears...you get the idea). 

At the beginning of the evening the teenager shows the younger children their cup and cheerfully explains what that is for and when she will get to eat them (which is the next morning - explanation for this to follow). "

See if I did that, I'd be nibbling while dividing them up.  If I was doing in the way she describes, I'd have the littles with me, and we'd sneak a few (while pretending to be naughty) and they'd be reward sweets, with fun anticipatory sweets while we got the reward points ready.

I don't think there's anything wrong with my approach, sadly I don't think its done like that in the Shaupe household.

 

Has Erica said what happens when they lose points - surely it would be unsanitary to put them back in the jar?  However, if you leave a teenager responsible for getting rid of them, and the sweetie jar (and the teen's access to sweets is heavily restricted), then there's a huge incentive to find excuses to take points off, so the points can be disposed of securely in a stomach.

[Antimony]

Just now, imokit said:

See if I did that, I'd be nibbling while dividing them up.  If I was doing in the way she describes, I'd have the littles with me, and we'd sneak a few (while pretending to be naughty) and they'd be reward sweets, with fun anticipatory sweets while we got the reward points ready.

I don't think there's anything wrong with my approach, sadly I don't think its done like that in the Shaupe household.

 

Has Erica said what happens when they lose points - surely it would be unsanitary to put them back in the jar?  However, if you leave a teenager responsible for getting rid of them, and the sweetie jar (and the teen's access to sweets is heavily restricted), then there's a huge incentive to find excuses to take points off, so the points can be disposed of securely in a stomach.

The teenagers are not allowed to eat them apparently. She says such further down. 

However, Erika's crap at game theory. The teenagers (Karen and Melanie) grade each other but they can only lose points, not gain them. The situation is the most efficiently mutually beneficial if the teenagers both rate each other perfectly even if nothing went wrong. She has also effectively given Karen and Melanie currency with which to negotiate with smaller children. I don't think this system as fool-proof as she thinks.
 

Whether the kids actually take advantage of this, though, is anybody's guess.

[feministxtian]

When my kids were little (and when we had the grands with us), I used the "red, yellow, green" cards like they had in school. We'd color the calendar with the right color for each child in the evenings...for example A - color, K - color...If they had 5 days of green (Monday-Friday) then they'd get an extra fun on the weekend...select their own movie, stay up later, something like that. If they strung together 10 days of green, then there was another treat...say...McDonald's (we don't do a whole lot of fast food), with increasing prizes for more days of green.

HOWEVER - meals were not the shitty, skimpy meals that Erika fixes her kids. Breakfast - cereal, milk, OJ. Lunch - PB & J, chips, cookies, milk. Dinner - meat, starch, veggies, juice or milk. Snacks were ALWAYS available...fruit, baby carrots, yogurt, stuff like that.

I don't think the Shupe kids get enough calories in a day for growth.

 

[Jingerbread]

6 hours ago, Hisey said:

Yes. This sums up my thoughts on Erika's parenting philosophy. Most six-year olds will do just about anything for candy. But a hungry six-year old, whose had salad for lunch every day, and green smoothies for breakfast, would be twice as eager to obey if he is promised a jelly bean.

I really don't think it's teaching them healthy eating by feeding them boring salads as a main staple, and then rewarding them with the worst kind of junk food. Where is the balance, the moderation, the reasonably sized portions of tasty but healthy food? I'll bet those kids leave home and never eat a salad again. 

I think there is a lot of sneaking in Erika's home. That's the reason there are all these locks, baby gates, safes, fences. But there are nine of them and only one of her. Does she lock up the jellybeans when she and Bob go out on date night? Does she count them ahead of time? Does Karen take them out and dish them out to the kids? I'll bet that extra Costco-size bag of jellybeans gets "lost" pretty frequently ("Karen, I saw it on the shelf just before Bob and I left for the Olive Garden. And did you eat your protein bar for dinner?")

This is a good set-up for eating disorders.  Kids need access to plenty of food and to choices to help them learn to control themselves.  There's no self-control for them now when there aren't choices.  In this house, we're big on salads, smoothies, and the higher protein Power Bars, but we have other foods too, a lot of them, because buy themselves with not a lot else, that isn't a balanced diet.  I eat an entire head of lettuce with a few tomatoes and other stuff by myself, every single day, and even that much isn't enough to make get gain any extra weight.  I don't see Erika allowing the kids as much as that.  I wonder if the reason they don't look overly ill is because they aren't allowed a lot of physical activity.  Their base calorie needs must be low with all the sitting they're expected to do every day.

4 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

What I find ridiculous is that Erika says these snack dinners are a "treat". They actually seem to get decent dinners most of the time. What the fuck is so "treat"-like about a protein bar and popcorn?? To me a treat would be a giant Domino's pizza (not just a couple of slices either) with sides etc, or some other kind of takeaway. A few years ago she posted a New Year album; one of the photos was of their dinner: popcorn and raw veg. I swear. THAT was dinner?? On such a special occasion too? Good grief!!

Popcorn and raw veggie trays are set out as snacks here on special days, since we'll usually do a large, early dinner that doesn't require a full lunch, but still needs something to nosh on.  That can only be a treat if they're used to the cheap canned veggies, but it's still not enough to nourish the growing bodies of kids as a meal. Where is the fat that their brains need?

[Honeysuckle]

56 minutes ago, Jingerbread said:

That can only be a treat if they're used to the cheap canned veggies, but it's still not enough to nourish the growing bodies of kids as a meal. Where is the fat that their brains need?

If FJ has taught me anything, it's that fundies aren't particularly concerned with their children's brains.

[Hisey]

Those kids absolutely do not get enough exercise. Running around on the deck for two minutes is not exercise for a seven year old. If you read her schedules, there are weeks in the winter when those youngsters do not step outside. And we all know they are not allowed to roughhouse in the house. 

I think Erika expects those children to eat and act like middle-aged sedentary people.

[lawlifelgbt]

Agree about the game theory thing. If I were an older Shupe, though, I would want to take over the cooking so I could sneak-eat. And, if I wasn't too hungry to think long-term, I would be going for the money instead of the other rewards. Even a small amount of money can buy some food. Not healthy, necessarily, but food with a lot of calories. How close to town are they? Maybe one could cover for the other while they go get something, or if they are in charge of a cart at Costco, they could sneak something into the cart or slip off for a cheap hot dog.

That's kind of what I did. I lived about four blocks from a part of town as a kid that had a by-the-slice pizza place and a dollar store that sold junk food, and a bagel shop. PSA: Bagels cost only a little more than a dollar and can have up to a third of your needed calories.

[AliceInFundyland]

Bagels are one of the best things on Earth. 

[elliha]

I don't think her children are that starved really and she has said different things about snacks but among other things listed cheese and nuts as snacks which could be pretty filling snacks if a child is hungry. I do think the children get too little variation in their diet though but I don't think they are starving. 

[JillyO]

I don't think her kids are starving, but they are also not getting the nutrition they need, IMHO. They get a meager green smoothie and a roll for breakfast. Someone calculated the calories a few pages back and it was ridiculously low. Then there's salad for lunch. Mind you, I love me a nice salad, especially in the summer. But it's not exactly a filling meal for growing kids. And it would be so easy to improve. Why not add some quinoa? It's delicious, filling and extremely nutritious. Oh wait, Erika tried it once and didn't like it, so no one gets to eat it. Why not add chickpeas, black beans, kidney beans? Again, delicious, filling and nutritious. Grilled chicken breast would also be a much better choice than bacon, since bacon is really unhealthy. (Before someone tries to kill me: I know a lot of people love bacon, and please go ahead and eat it, but there's really no need to feed it to your kids every day, especially not if you want it to be a healthy meal). Her dinners are probably okay, though the "snack dinner" of popcorn and protein bars is a sad joke.

Also, these kids are by far not getting nearly enough physical activity. At least an hour of intensive physical activity is recommended for kids and teenagers. What do they get, two minutes of running on the deck on a good day? They also don't get enough sunshine and fresh air.

[elliha]

Yes, they definitely need more exercise. My child goes to daycare and they go outside every day unless it is a snow/rain storm or extremely cold, sometimes they are out twice a day and on really good days they might be outside more or less the whole day and have their lunch outside. Also, the parent who picks up the child often stays outside with her for a little while before we go indoors too. It's sad Erika's children don't get that, if I had been a SAHM I would put outdoor activities very high on the list of the day just because I can. I don't get the thing with the yard not being in good enough condition to play in half the year, if it is that bad why do they not try to do something about it when they have this many kids and all they do is to stay at home? 

[feministxtian]

My kids were outside OR doing some sort of physical activity every day. Their elementary school had recess, I believe it was 30 minutes after lunch (don't quote me, it was a LONG time ago). They were also in extracurriculars like baseball, dance, gymnastics, wrestling...and they were outside when the weather was nice. Now, in an Indiana winter when there's 18" of snow on the ground and it's colder than a polar bear's balls...well...they stayed in.

I can't see how Erika can even STAND having the kids indoors all day every day. Oh wait...she has her schedules...

And, no, I do not think those kids get enough food on a daily basis. I still remember watching my 9 year old son eat enough to put a football player to shame. But, then again, he was outside a lot, played baseball and was on the wrestling team.

[defraudingjezebel]

5 hours ago, feministxtian said:

My kids were outside OR doing some sort of physical activity every day. Their elementary school had recess, I believe it was 30 minutes after lunch (don't quote me, it was a LONG time ago). They were also in extracurriculars like baseball, dance, gymnastics, wrestling...and they were outside when the weather was nice. Now, in an Indiana winter when there's 18" of snow on the ground and it's colder than a polar bear's balls...well...they stayed in.

I can't see how Erika can even STAND having the kids indoors all day every day. Oh wait...she has her schedules...

And, no, I do not think those kids get enough food on a daily basis. I still remember watching my 9 year old son eat enough to put a football player to shame. But, then again, he was outside a lot, played baseball and was on the wrestling team.

The only reason Erika wants them indoors constantly is so she can control their every movement. She claims that her backyard is too muddy 9 months out of the year because of PNW weather. I live a mere hour south of her and although it rains often, I don't see mud everywhere. So in this case, when Erika says its muddy I think she is afraid of a small clod of dirt coming into contact with her deck. There are ways to get around tracking dirt into the house but she doesn't seem to give a shit.