“Certificate Of Purity”

[AmazonGrace]

Apart from the whole misogynistic shtick with the daddy controlling female sexuality until she can be handed off to  a husband, this bothers me because making a huge deal of it on instagram and media smacks of holier-than-thou. Didn't Jesus say that you shouldn't brag about your good deeds? And even if you're a virgin, you might have had lustful thoughts or committed some other sin and he thought it was just as bad as having the actual sex so why would you be so proud?  

So if you're a virgin on your wedding day, great, you, your husband and God will know without a certificate and no one else needs to know or care.  Daddy only needs a certificate of purity if he sold her off as a virgin and needs proof in case the hubby is disappointed and comes wanting his money back.

 

 

[Crocoduck]

This is just disgusting.  How long before the fundies stop letting their daughters exercise or ride bikes and horses because it might damage their precious hymen?  Just one more way to control their daughters.  It's sick.

My fresh off the boat Sicilian great grandmother did exactly that. Her daughters were not allowed to ride bicycles, climb trees or play soccer or sandlot baseball because she feared for their hymens. Of course, she was also illiterate.

[salex]

One article on this said her older sister did the same thing at her wedding a couple of years 2.  Both sisters and their brother had signed purity pledges but the brother had premarital sex.  Dad said he loved them all either way.  (And boys will be boys? )

[AmazonGrace]

One article on this said her older sister did the same thing at her wedding a couple of years 2.  Both sisters and their brother had signed purity pledges but the brother had premarital sex.  Dad said he loved them all either way.  (And boys will be boys? )

Boys will be boys, and privacy, that's something you can't eat, isn't it?

If at any point one of my relatives goes public in the world wide web with details of my sex life or lack thereof, that is going to be a former relative.

[FundieFarmer]

This is just disgusting.  How long before the fundies stop letting their daughters exercise or ride bikes and horses because it might damage their precious hymen?  Just one more way to control their daughters.  It's sick.

I would say it's probably happening somewhere, we just don't happen to know it yet.  I mean, in middle and high school some of my TOTALLY NON-FUNDIE friends were under the impression (probably because of their mothers) that because tampons could interfere with your hymen they could make you un-virginal and were really confused when I was like "what if the entire concept of 'virginity' is just a bunch of misogynistic malarky in the first place?"  

My mother adhered to that charming idea.

It was about as terrible as it seems. I was the only girl I knew using pads and not tampons. 

[HereticHick]

 

I'm not sure about physical exams, but a very few states require blood tests (for STIs and/or genetic disorders) before the marriage license is issued. According to this website http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/chart-state-marriage-license-blood-29019.html DC and Mississippi require both people to be tested while Montana tests women and New York tests Hispanics and African-Americans (for sickle cell). It used to be almost all states required it but most have repealed the laws-  CA stopped in 1994.

That NOLO chart of marriage blood tests is outdated.  DC repealed its syphilis blood test in 2008:  ""Pursuant to the Marriage Amendment Act of 2008, DC Law 17-222, effective September 11, 2008, a blood test is no longer a requirement obtain a marriage license in the District of Columbia."  [The blood test was a public health measure, by the way, not a purity thing! But it became ridiculous over time that they were testing for only syphilis and not AIDS or other things]

I was married in DC before 2008 and remember the blood test fondly-- the blood lab people said it was their favorite test and gave me a flower!  Husband to be and I got goofy certificates that said, "to the best of DC's knowledge", we didn't have syphilis! Alas, we had to turn them at the courthouse in exchange for the marriage certificate--or we would have framed them, just for the LOLs!

 

[Rajah061014]

God, this just makes me sick. It's just freaking ridiculous. This whole obsession with purity in the Christian churches is part of what drove me away from the religion. And I was raised in a rather fundie-light church. Thank goodness I avoided the brainwashing and got out.

 

[Buzzard]

The whole "its one thing to make a promise, its another to prove it" is so many levels of shocking bullshit its out of control.  Unless they have a different bible that I have, its pretty clear that Jesus kinda said:

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

 

Matthew 6:5

She doesnt need to make a public proclamation that she lived her faith/promise.  In fact, doing this DEFEATS living her faith.  The promise is between you, god, and your husband.  It does not involve daddy or 250 other people who are sipping champagne.  

[nausicaa]

This is just disgusting.  How long before the fundies stop letting their daughters exercise or ride bikes and horses because it might damage their precious hymen?  Just one more way to control their daughters.  It's sick.

My fresh off the boat Sicilian great grandmother did exactly that. Her daughters were not allowed to ride bicycles, climb trees or play soccer or sandlot baseball because she feared for their hymens. Of course, she was also illiterate.

I have heard of very religious parents doing this with their daughters as well (no pogo sticks, EVER). I mean, they have a point. When I was six I was straddling the ladder part of some monkey bars when both feet slipped out at the same time. Boom--skank for life.

But on a serious note, I've heard that the hymen is not some one and done barrier as we tend to think of it, but rather a membrane that can tighten and expand at different times in one's life. At least that's what I heard on a YouTube video...

And I had a few Christian friends (not fundies) in high school whose parents wouldn't let them use tampons. I've also found in Muslim countries that tampons are really difficult to find. I don't know if this is because of hymen breaking fears or some other cultural reason. 

[AngelGirl8811]

This is just disgusting.  How long before the fundies stop letting their daughters exercise or ride bikes and horses because it might damage their precious hymen?  Just one more way to control their daughters.  It's sick.

My fresh off the boat Sicilian great grandmother did exactly that. Her daughters were not allowed to ride bicycles, climb trees or play soccer or sandlot baseball because she feared for their hymens. Of course, she was also illiterate.

 

I have heard of very religious parents doing this with their daughters as well (no pogo sticks, EVER). I mean, they have a point. When I was six I was straddling the ladder part of some monkey bars when both feet slipped out at the same time. Boom--skank for life.

But on a serious note, I've heard that the hymen is not some one and done barrier as we tend to think of it, but rather a membrane that can tighten and expand at different times in one's life. At least that's what I heard on a YouTube video...

And I had a few Christian friends (not fundies) in high school whose parents wouldn't let them use tampons. I've also found in Muslim countries that tampons are really difficult to find. I don't know if this is because of hymen breaking fears or some other cultural reason. 

I can't imagine my parents limiting my activities because they were afraid that I would break my hymen. I mean...that would have gotten rid of a lot of wrestling with older cousins times. 

[FundiesInParis]

I remember not being able to use tampons until I went to college because I would "lose my virginity to it". And my parents were run of the mill Methodists, not even really fundie-lite. 

[EmmieJ]

And if the doctor found out her hymen wasn't intact (for whatever reason), what to do then?

This is really sick.

My guess is that a small fee could be paid to ensure that the doctor finds her hymen is intact.

[nausicaa]

This is just disgusting.  How long before the fundies stop letting their daughters exercise or ride bikes and horses because it might damage their precious hymen?  Just one more way to control their daughters.  It's sick.

My fresh off the boat Sicilian great grandmother did exactly that. Her daughters were not allowed to ride bicycles, climb trees or play soccer or sandlot baseball because she feared for their hymens. Of course, she was also illiterate.

 

I have heard of very religious parents doing this with their daughters as well (no pogo sticks, EVER). I mean, they have a point. When I was six I was straddling the ladder part of some monkey bars when both feet slipped out at the same time. Boom--skank for life.

But on a serious note, I've heard that the hymen is not some one and done barrier as we tend to think of it, but rather a membrane that can tighten and expand at different times in one's life. At least that's what I heard on a YouTube video...

And I had a few Christian friends (not fundies) in high school whose parents wouldn't let them use tampons. I've also found in Muslim countries that tampons are really difficult to find. I don't know if this is because of hymen breaking fears or some other cultural reason. 

I can't imagine my parents limiting my activities because they were afraid that I would break my hymen. I mean...that would have gotten rid of a lot of wrestling with older cousins times. 

I know. For all the shit Catholics get about their weirdness (and trust me, they got some weird), my Irish-Catholic, Republican parents never worried about my hymen during sports, or told me to feel bad about being excited about my birthday, or made me wear a skirt while cleaning gutters. FFS, I even trick or treated and went public school! 

[GodsKnickers]

The creep factor on this is off the charts. And, if this presentation was incorporated into the ceremony or reception, where I was a guest? There'd have been a lot of 'z' snapping and 'oh hayuuuuuuuulllll no, ain't nobody got time for this shit' as I fled the building.

[imokit]

The whole thing is rather sad.

Her body her choice, if she chose to abstain and tell her dad about it, fine, that's her business.  But she didn't have the opportunities to accidentally break her hymen while playing and running about is sad.

I would also like to point out how silly this certificate is.   There is a huge industry for hymenoplasty (surgically fixing hymens)

http://theconversation.com/reliving-virginity-sexual-double-standards-and-hymenoplasty-15307

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1822297,00.html

 

Its mainly Muslim women at the moment, but I wouldn't be surprised if it spreads (or has spread to fundies of all faiths).

 

The one thing we know is that certificate means nothing, had she not been able to get one - it could have been from sports, being born without one, life breaking it.  With one, we still don't know she's a virgin, she may have had surgery, the doctor may have signed the paper without examining her because she asked for a meaningless certificate.

[Imrlgoddess]

The whole "its one thing to make a promise, its another to prove it" is so many levels of shocking bullshit its out of control.  Unless they have a different bible that I have, its pretty clear that Jesus kinda said:

And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

 

Matthew 6:5

She doesnt need to make a public proclamation that she lived her faith/promise.  In fact, doing this DEFEATS living her faith.  The promise is between you, god, and your husband.  It does not involve daddy or 250 other people who are sipping champagne.  

This, this, thissity this this!     

90% of the reason (both times) I did not get married in a huge crowd or in a church. 

[Becket70]

Doesn't this harken back to the Middle Ages when Kings would make alliances by marrying off their daughters?  A physical exam, in front of a whole bunch of people, was required to assure the woman was a virgin. Kind of icky to know something like this is still going on.

[Black Aliss]

Doesn't this harken back to the Middle Ages when Kings would make alliances by marrying off their daughters?  A physical exam, in front of a whole bunch of people, was required to assure the woman was a virgin. Kind of icky to know something like this is still going on.

Funny you should mention that. My first thought when I read about this was the folk song Arbutus.

"But I swore you were a maiden fair, and my Chiefs did all agree!
I command you now, take off your gown that I may examine thee."

"Oh, Father dear, don't shame me so; I would rather you see me dead
Before I'd let your noble lords search for my maidenhead."

"Take off, take off your very brown gown and stand upon the stone,
For if you be a maiden or none, the truth it must be known."

So she's taken off her very brown gown, and she's let the gown fall free
But before its hem could touch the ground, she's turned into a tree

And her lover's turned to the gentle breeze; through her branches he does play
And she has shed her soft brown bark 'till this very day.

And my first thought when I read this quote in the NBC article

"It's one thing to give your word. It's another to give proof," 

that the way I was raised it was enough to give your word. I guess we just weren't fundie enough, although we were more than fundie enough for me.

[December]

I remember not being able to use tampons until I went to college because I would "lose my virginity to it". And my parents were run of the mill Methodists, not even really fundie-lite. 

I didn't realize the whole ban on tampons or other activities was a thing until I was in college. My roommate's mom had told her tampons would make her lose her virginity, so she was afraid to buy them even though she really needed a better solution than pads. I was stunned -- my parents didn't let me use tampons at first, but it was because they were worried I wouldn't be careful and would get TSS. So I ended up taking my friend to the drugstore, helping her decide which tampons to buy, and explaining how to use them. 

Can I ask if people who were taught this learned it from just parents, church, school, or a combination? I had comprehensive sex ed, so we learned about tampon usage and safety in like middle school and specifically that it wasn't the same thing as having intercourse.

[sophie10130]

I never NEVER understood the whole "losing your virginity to a tampon" thing. To be a virgin is a social construct to mean "to never have penetrative sex." A person with a penis can be a virgin but they don't have a hymen. Therefore hymen=/=virginity. So WHY is this still happening??? 

It's so sad to me.

I hate this entire concept so much on so many levels. I could rant and rave about this for such a long time, but most things have already been said. I have, however, heard people ban tampons because the women might derive pleasure from putting it in, but obviously those people have never actually put a tampon in while on their period because it's pretty uncomfortable and totally unsexy.

Also, it's super bizarre that there are certain hardcore Catholics that don't allow tampons when part of Natural Family Planning (the only kind of birth control allowed) is inserting your fingers to feel the position of the cervix. 

[IreneIssh]

I never NEVER understood the whole "losing your virginity to a tampon" thing. To be a virgin is a social construct to mean "to never have penetrative sex." A person with a penis can be a virgin but they don't have a hymen. Therefore hymen=/=virginity. So WHY is this still happening??? 

It's so sad to me.

I hate this entire concept so much on so many levels. I could rant and rave about this for such a long time, but most things have already been said. I have, however, heard people ban tampons because the women might derive pleasure from putting it in, but obviously those people have never actually put a tampon in while on their period because it's pretty uncomfortable and totally unsexy.

Also, it's super bizarre that there are certain hardcore Catholics that don't allow tampons when part of Natural Family Planning (the only kind of birth control allowed) is inserting your fingers to feel the position of the cervix. 

Ugggh. I remember a boy in my biology class freshman year of high school asked me if girls got aroused when putting in tampons and I just laughed and laughed. It didn't even occur to me that ANYONE would think that. It's the least sexy thing I can think of. 

[browncoatslytherin]

my mum didn't initially want me to use tampons, but as i remember it, it was because she personally didn't like them for herself (and at that time she was all about pushing her preferences on me). after a while, i asked her to let me try them just to see, she let me, and i've never looked back.

i remember reading the insert before i used one and i do remember a "faq" sheet that did address concerns about virginity. i dunno if they still have that, as i haven't read the insert since then, and while i think that's a little sad, i'm glad they at least put that in there for questioning girls and women.

[JesusPony]

Well I found a local news article about the incident- http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/Embracing-Purity-Why-a-Maryland-Bride-Signed-a-Virginity-Certificate-336048261.html

 

 

"The whole goal is to make Jesus famous and debunk the myth that living for Jesus is wack and unfulfilling," said Tim Bowman, whose song "I'm Good" is near the top of the Billboard gospel charts.

...

"It's kind of taboo for women nowadays to make that pledge that they want to stay pure," he said. "It's that times 10 for guys. You deal with that whole stereotype like you're wack or you're weak."

Have to go in on the wonderful groom here. The first quote: Have people not heard of Jesus, or...? Second quote: Because it is the men who are truly suffering!

[7thchild]

Surely the people who support these purity certificates believe in being born again.

I wonder if a "Born Again Virgin Certificate" would be acceptable?  

[Dandruff]

There was a young lady named Dinah

Who couldn't play, with a vagina

They were scared that her thing

Would get broke on a swing

Because it would forever define her