TLC Documentary on Sexual Abuse

[Ilovebrownies]

These people just continue to show us what idiots they are. Michele supervising Jessa and Jill, stating how it happens in soooo many families (ummm, not that many!), not even giving their story and they are just there to "learn" as if they were learning about Down Syndrome or some other "important topic". It is disgusting.

Thank you Buzzard for taking yet another hit for us. I don't know how you do it!

[Jana814]

I saw the special last night. Agree w/ what people r saying about both TLC & Michelle.

[blessalessi]

... forgiving their abuser. I never understand the use of that word. I understand working to get past one's own rage and pain, and not letting that person still rule one's emotions. But I never understand using the word "forgive" for that process.

Thank you x eleventy for putting into words so clearly a concept that I have also struggled with, for as long as I have been away from Church.

I also struggle with the common exhortation to "let it go". I can understand why an individual may find it healthy to move towards a place where a noxious event/person no longer consumes their thoughts. But "let it go"? Fuck no! (Unless you want to do that). Channel that experience into changing the world, if you want to, and don't learn any bastard guilt you into "letting go" until and unless that is what you decide is best for your own personal sake.

[Librul]

When you get on Erin's web site, there is a lot of self promoting and PR for her books, speaking tours, awards, social media. She went through horrific abuse and she is definitely making a living off of the aftermath. The fact that she cannot listen to any mildly dissenting viewpoint is a red flag for me. It doesn't mean I don' support what she is doing, but she certainly connects with the Duggars on a self-promotion level.

[VTSleeper]

I find Michelle's comment that it "happens in so many families" as somewhat odd.

Isn't the whole attitude of the Duggars that they are better than "so many families"? If so, why did she just try to imply that the Duggars are just like everyone else.

She seems to have admitted that the crazy stuff they do to protect against male lust and desire is not just crazy - it's also entirely ineffective.

[Idolatry]

Just curious...did it bother you that an eleven year old was on this program, talking about her abuse? I found that pretty exploitative. She could not consent, and clearly she does not have the emotional maturity that an adult talking about their childhood abuse would. I was outraged that a child was put in the spotlight here, forced to relive their trauma. It's very unfair. Children should be playing and having fun. And honestly, it takes time to heal from abuse. You don't do that if you're performing for the adults in your life.

TLC has a whole show on a 14 year old's gender transition, so I'd say this is in line with tlc's demanding broadcast standards.

[Rescinded and Mended]

I missed the show, but I get the impression that the only reason Michelle horned in on any of this was to ensure that Jessa and Jill stayed on script and didn't suggest any of their own revisions about what happened with Josh. Michelle not only enabled Josh's behavior, she was an accountabili-buddy to her own daughters in the interest of protecting him further.

Disgusting. TLC should have asked for only Jessa and Jill. I'm not saying that they would have changed their story, but things might have been at least a little bit different during taping without Baby Voice breathing down their necks.

Thanks for the recap, Buzzard.

[VTSleeper]

I missed the show, but I get the impression that the only reason Michelle horned in on any of this was to ensure that Jessa and Jill stayed on script and didn't suggest any of their own revisions about what happened with Josh. Michelle not only enabled Josh's behavior, she was an accountabili-buddy to her own daughters in the interest of protecting him further.

If People magazine is to be believed, Jim Bob has made it very clear that he and Michelle are to be the center of attention when it comes to television - even to the extent that he forbade his daughters from having an independent television show. I see Michelle's presence as an effort to carry out Jim Bob's edict when it comes to who gets the spotlight.

[VelociRapture]

I didn't watch. I'm assuming it was a giant clusterfuck based off these comments and Buzzard's recap though.

A few things I want to comment on from the other posts made here:

1. In Erin's defense, I don't believe she knew the Duggars before she spoke with the 9 younger kids a few years ago - if I remember right, she literally met them the same night and agreed to give the younger kids a private talk at the TTH. So I honestly don't think she would have known about their swimwear restrictions at the time. If she had, she may have changed the way she spoke about that specific topic in order not to confuse the kids.

2. For everyone asking how Buzzard gets through these recaps - I'm assuming copious amounts of booze is involved. :lol:

3. Pretty sure Buzzard may also be on her last few brain cells after watching this. I propose she takes a good long break from TLC and the Up Network so she can heal.

4. I'm not surprised by how poorly done this appears to have been. Extremely disappointed, but not surprised. TLC has no business attempting to put together a PSA on this subject. It would have been far better if they had partnered with another network or show (like Dateline) to produce this - they could have done two shows; one regarding sexual abuse in general that featured the survivors from this special and the second focused specifically on the Duggars' situation.

The second special should have been comprised of professionals that deal with sexual abuse on a daily basis - such as Law Enforcement, Lawyers, medical professionals, and Psychologists - who could have explained why this situation spiraled out of control the way it did, exactly what the parents did wrong, and discussed why the girls (Jill and Jessa specifically) reacted the way they did. The Duggars already did the Megyn Kelly interviews, so just use those clips of them and let the experts comment on it.

5. I give the survivors that participated a lot of credit. I think all of them, including Erin, agreed to participate in good faith because they believed TLC was going to produce a quality program. And while the overall program sounds pretty bad, I think those five survivors are brave for speaking up.

6. Finally, I will give a small amount of credit to TLC - not for making the program, but for not identifying Jill and Jessa as survivors of abuse during the program. They were abused by someone they loved and betrayed by the parents they trusted and that's absolutely horrible. . . but they also minimized sexual abuse in general during previous interviews. Grouping them together with the five survivors would have been a slap in the face.

[gemma]

TLC has a whole show on a 14 year old's gender transition, so I'd say this is in line with tlc's demanding broadcast standards.

I was troubled by this as well.

[quiversR4hunting]

I think the reason the Duggars were on it was because of the molestation that came out. TLC said after the FOX interview they were going to do a special. I think the Duggars were a bigger focus. And then Joshley Madison came out and TLC cut the Duggar trio down to sound bites. I think they should have cut them out completely. They did nothing for the program.

I wonder how they really acted in the seminar. I would love to hear the other participants say if they think they really got it or not. Because we all know TV likes to edit the crap out of everything. We only saw a few snippets of the duggar trio.

I can't wait for Jessa to get her fully functioning adult brain. (reasoning doesn't fully develop until mid-20s - NPR article npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708 ) I wonder if brain development is slower in these fundies than in the mainstream Christian kids or secular kids. That debate is for another day :)

[Buzzard]

When you get on Erin's web site, there is a lot of self promoting and PR for her books, speaking tours, awards, social media. She went through horrific abuse and she is definitely making a living off of the aftermath. The fact that she cannot listen to any mildly dissenting viewpoint is a red flag for me. It doesn't mean I don' support what she is doing, but she certainly connects with the Duggars on a self-promotion level.

I thought she came off as seriously full of herself. Giving your own autographed books to an 11 year old as a gift? WTF! The whole thing came off as how awesome Erin is with only a few minutes dedicated to what RAINN is and how it works. The fact that she is now silencing dissenters seriously turns me off to anything that she is in charge of. Constructive criticism from the public, especially other survivors. She is not the end-all-be-all of CSA and to ignore input is small minded. She does a GREAT disservice to the cause by making it all about her. It totally makes sense now how she is "close" with the Duggars.

The fact that she met only with the Duggars who werent abused is interesting. You would think that baby voice would want to actually harmed children to discuss the topic. Oh right, they were asleep and didnt know anything about it.

The Duggars are so disgusting. There were two other Duggar victims. To deny them the ability to "learn" is perfectly in step with their bullshit. They could have easily brought Jinger and Joy and kept them off camera, but then they may not toe the line correctly...

[lascuba]

I thought she came off as seriously full of herself. Giving your own autographed books to an 11 year old as a gift? WTF! The whole thing came off as how awesome Erin is with only a few minutes dedicated to what RAINN is and how it works. The fact that she is now silencing dissenters seriously turns me off to anything that she is in charge of. Constructive criticism from the public, especially other survivors. She is not the end-all-be-all of CSA and to ignore input is small minded. She does a GREAT disservice to the cause by making it all about her. It totally makes sense now how she is "close" with the Duggars.

The fact that she met only with the Duggars who werent abused is interesting. You would think that baby voice would want to actually harmed children to discuss the topic. Oh right, they were asleep and didnt know anything about it.

The Duggars are so disgusting. There were two other Duggar victims. To deny them the ability to "learn" is perfectly in step with their bullshit. They could have easily brought Jinger and Joy and kept them off camera, but then they may not toe the line correctly...

I have been biting my tongue since last night, but I thought something was way off with her. I've only seen her speak for a couple of minutes at a time here and there, but listening to her at length last night...she came off as someone who had something to sell, ykwim? Something about her tone, her word choices--she was like a professional inspiration speaker and since my knee jerk response to annoyance and repugnance at those types, I found her incredibly off-putting. I know she talks about CSA for a living and it's important work, but she sounds too scripted and she doesn't have the talent to follow a script and sound natural.

[Jessa's Feet]

Anyone else getting really burned out by the overuse of the term "safeguards" from the Duggars? It's almost like when they use that term they never really explain what it means, it just sounds good to them as a catch all and it sounds like they mean business. It sounds serious. When they say it and even try to rattle off anything about it, they never clearly outline what safeguards are for them.

There's got to be a better word for this other than safeguards.

[TheJewAmongUs]

Just curious...did it bother you that an eleven year old was on this program, talking about her abuse? I found that pretty exploitative. She could not consent, and clearly she does not have the emotional maturity that an adult talking about their childhood abuse would. I was outraged that a child was put in the spotlight here, forced to relive their trauma. It's very unfair. Children should be playing and having fun. And honestly, it takes time to heal from abuse. You don't do that if you're performing for the adults in your life.

No because the 11 year old clearly gives speeches about it and wants to advocate. It didn't seem like she was being forced at all. there was a scene where she was shopping with a friend while giving a voice over with no context like, "I like to shop and hang out with friends." That was the only weird part of her segment to me.

I thought she came off as seriously full of herself. Giving your own autographed books to an 11 year old as a gift? WTF! The whole thing came off as how awesome Erin is with only a few minutes dedicated to what RAINN is and how it works. The fact that she is now silencing dissenters seriously turns me off to anything that she is in charge of. Constructive criticism from the public, especially other survivors. She is not the end-all-be-all of CSA and to ignore input is small minded. She does a GREAT disservice to the cause by making it all about her. It totally makes sense now how she is "close" with the Duggars.

The fact that she met only with the Duggars who werent abused is interesting. You would think that baby voice would want to actually harmed children to discuss the topic. Oh right, they were asleep and didnt know anything about it.

On her Facebook page she gives an address to send donations directly to her for travel expenses. It's right in the middle of promoting this episode. I don't know a lot about her, but she doesn't seem all that knowledgeable about counseling victims aside from promoting her self-named law. I don't know what good it would do 10 years later to have to speak to any Duggar who was abused. They need real counseling, not more self-promoting faux crap. I'm guessing she was there to convince the parents to advocate for Erin's Law, not to give a little talk on abuse. That story is just convenient for her to promote herself and for the Duggars to look less awful now that everyone else has come out.

[sophrosyne]

Curious that there's been no mention of the TLC special on the Duggar FB page over the weekend or today.

Are they trying to minimize Comments snark (or Comments wars)? Are they 'purposing' for Jill and Jessa to each be her own brand apart from the besmirched Duggar brand?

[watchdog]

Anyone else getting really burned out by the overuse of the term "safeguards" from the Duggars? It's almost like when they use that term they never really explain what it means, it just sounds good to them as a catch all and it sounds like they mean business. It sounds serious. When they say it and even try to rattle off anything about it, they never clearly outline what safeguards are for them.

There's got to be a better word for this other than safeguards.

Imprisonment? "Safeguards" just sounds better than "locking our children in their bedrooms at night."

[K'Z'K]

For those who managed to watch this train wreck: was there any explanation within the program of why the Duggars were involved at all? Obviously they were involved because Jill and Jessa were victims and J'chelle is their monitor, but let's imagine we didn't know that. If someone happened to watch this without knowing who the Duggars are, let alone their connection to the topic, would the show have given them any clue as to why these three grinning idiots were there?

[TheJewAmongUs]

Imprisonment? "Safeguards" just sounds better than "locking our children in their bedrooms at night."

Little ones don't sit on big boys' laps. Just daddy's lap. And no dancing. Dancing makes you feel all the unrighteous feelings.

[VelociRapture]

Courtesy of Jezebel, an article discussing the flaws and good parts of the special:

jezebel.com/tlc-aired-a-sexual-assault-documentary-that-didnt-menti-1727651391

I particularly liked this portion:

. . . and while it was important to have the sisters there to learn how to stop the perpetration of molestation, it was surprising that their father as well as some of the other family members (such as the sisters’ husbands) were not present, making it almost seem like preventing abuse was a job for women and mothers as opposed to the entire family unit. Michelle Duggar’s response to the seminar, especially, felt hollow and forced as she smilingly focused on the bonding experience she and her daughters had as opposed to the fact that such abuse had been knowingly swept under the rug in her family.

B-I-N-G-Fucking-O! Thank you Jezebel for pointing this out for your readers. Unfortunately, it would have been better directed at the Duggar family, who do believe that these things are women's work as opposed to something the entire family should work on together.

The article also discussed how odd it was that the network never once uttered Josh's name during the special and the attacks on his victims never came up. My best guess is that they originally were going to feature the Duggars more, but cut most of it for some reason - either because of the cheating scandal or because of the Megyn Kelly interviews or just because the family simply was not capable of staying on TLC's script.

[nst]

For those who managed to watch this train wreck: was there any explanation within the program of why the Duggars were involved at all? Obviously they were involved because Jill and Jessa were victims and J'chelle is their monitor, but let's imagine we didn't know that. If someone happened to watch this without knowing who the Duggars are, let alone their connection to the topic, would the show have given them any clue as to why these three grinning idiots were there?

brilliant question

if you never knew the duggars from anyone else

you would think that this Michelle Duggar talks too quietly - and truly had nothing to add and her daughters think something like safeguards will protect anyone (trust me you can have all the safeguards in the world and something still can happen ) and that this Jessa Seewald is using the cray cray eyes - discussing all the children she will be having to safeguard

[Librul]

Yea, Erin giving her own autographed books to an 11 year old survivor as a gift was one of several WTF moments for me. I was fully expecting the gift to be something like an angel statue or a special charm bracelet, something sweet and meaningful. Afterall, they have been in close contact for a long time. Not three (purchase now from my website) promo items that cost her nothing in thought or money or time.

This whole broadcast made me .... dunno.

"This happens in so many families, we are completely normal. Nothing to see here", said every Duggar ever. It confirmed for me that Jill is completely ignorant and Jessa is smug and arrogant.

[martian]

From the recap Buzzard did, (many thanks, Buzzard!) it seems like the whole special was a PR whitewash attempt. The Duggar's were there to add legitimacy to TLC's combined mea-culpa and washing their hands of any responsibility for exploiting an already badly damaged family on TV.

The other sisters who Josh abused are still sidelined in part because they had not become the fan favorites of the show due to their marriages. Just one more example of how women are not valued beyond being wives and baby factories in fundy land.

I agree with other posters. TLC was testing the waters to see if there might be hope for a Duggar return to TV. Instead they just made their network look like the raging opportunists they are.

I think "the other ones" are mainly sidelined because it's so difficult to whitewash the assaults Josh committed on them, and their extreme youth at the time underlines the seriousness of Josh's problem and the inadequacy of his parents' response.

There's no way the Duggar cult leaders could have had the abused kids meet with Erin. They were already playing with fire bringing her to talk. What if one of the victims had in the moment felt compelled to disclose what happened to her? Also, I feel sure Ma and Pa Duggar would rather Jinger go on crying over being "full of sin" than to have her hear and internalize a message that it's not her fault.

[from the bible belt]

What i think is kind of funny is that TLC didn't felt the urge to promote this outside of america, it is not like the scandal about josh wasn't on the newspapers here also. Even the cheating account made it in the papers here.

Strange, we europeans have no need for education :(

[TheJewAmongUs]

For those who managed to watch this train wreck: was there any explanation within the program of why the Duggars were involved at all? Obviously they were involved because Jill and Jessa were victims and J'chelle is their monitor, but let's imagine we didn't know that. If someone happened to watch this without knowing who the Duggars are, let alone their connection to the topic, would the show have given them any clue as to why these three grinning idiots were there?

In the introduction they show a little snippet from the five people whose stories are actually featured. After Erin Merryn the narrator says, "Next, an eye opening look at child sexual abuse." Then a talking head of Jill "There are so many people that deal with this exact same thing in their own families." (She stumbles a little saying the line.) Then the narrator says we'll hear from experts and advocates with information we'll need for recognizing the signs. Talking head snippet from an expert. And then from the narrator "And learn five basic steps we can all apply right now" with a shot of Jessa sitting front row and snippet from the seminar where the lecturer says, "You're going to learn how to prevent child sexual abuse. You're going to learn how to act responsibly if it is happening." (Ooh, buuuuurn.) Then they mention the five brave survivors with a montage of them. So the intro is 3 - 3 1/2 minutes and the Jill and Jessa get no more than 20 seconds of screen time combined.

First we hear Erin and she gets about 12-13 minutes on her story. Then the kid gets about 5 minutes. There are a few little cuts to Erin in there. Third is a 59 year old man who was abused when he was 9-10 years old and we hear his story about how he didn't speak out until he was older and what he and his wife have done to help him deal with it. His story gets about 6 minutes.

Then there are 2 - 2 1/2 minutes from experts and a clip of Teri Hatcher testifying at the UN and pics of other celebrities like Oprah, Tyler Perry and Ashley Judd. And then the Duggar segment...

Intro of the director of programs for Darkness to Light, with b roll of her speaking. You can clearly recognize Michelle's hair in the front row. They claim they filmed one of the Darkness to Light's training seminars in NY with invited guests. We hear the speaker thanking them for being there because being there is critical to help protect children. (*cough* bullshit *cough*) There is an explanation the the invited guests are survivors, parents of survivors and community members who "wanted to know more about the issue, and that was when they cut to a shot of the three Duggaresses sitting front row center and the narrator says, "...among them, Jill and Jessa Duggar, and their mother Michelle." And then Jessa's talking head where she says it shouldn't be a taboo subject. She pauses a little and says "we should be bringing awareness to child sexual abuse." That line sounded even more forced than the rest of her prepared statement.

They show a page from the seminar book, then a shot of the group thumbing through the workbook, with everyone on different pages. Jill has it open and flips a page. Michelle has it laying open on her lap and puts on her glasses. Jessa has her hand holding it slightly open, but not enough to actually read it, we see her cross her lower legs. We hear again, " "You're going to learn how to prevent child sexual abuse, You're going to learn how to recognize it and you're going to learn how to act responsibly if it is happening."

Now we hear the 5 steps that were on the page from the booklet we just saw a shot of.

Step 1: Learn the Facts (Narrator and screen text say 90% happens with someone you know. Some guy in the seminar answers a question.)

Step 2: Minimize Opportunity (This is where we see the Duggars the most. Narrator says "Participants we given tips to eliminate situations where a child is alone with an adult or older youth." (No hide and seek!!!) Everyone turns to page 15 in their workbook. We hear from two other participants. One says her nephew is sometimes alone with a babysitter and the other says don't keep a routine, call sometimes when a child is alone with an adult. Michelle's head nods. Jill shares, "I like the idea of, um, just thinking before you're in a situation, like how can I handle this, and how can I set up those boundaries ahead of time." You can see her thinking as she's trying to slowly finish what she's trying to say. More Michelle head nodding.)

Step 3: Talk About It (Talking head from someone label as an Olympic medalist, which was digitally added to a screen in the seminar. Narrator says kids who don't have the maturity or skills to talk about something uncomfortable with adults are targeted. Another seminar person gives her answer to how she would tell a child that their body is special or private. Jill nods her head.)

Step 4: Recognize The Signs (Another talking head added to the seminar screen in post. Does the child have nightmares or have their grades changed? Are they aggressive or withdrawn?)

Step 5: React Responsibly (Same guy from step 1 answers another question, we see a shot of people writing in their workbook, I think they use this same shot more than once. Then we see Michelle writing something down.)

The narrator recaps the steps. Then we see a talking head with Michelle, who learned her lines much better than Jill and Jessa. She rushes through her points where Jill paused and hesitated with Jessa being in between. "I was so glad that my girls and I were able to do this together, and that we could just be an support [sic] and encouragement to each other to be able to gain more information about this important topic..." It felt like she got cut off mid-sentence and another guy had a talking head snippet. Then Jill, "It was amazing to understand that there are so many people that deal with this exact same thing in their own family, so just bein educated is very good." And finally Jessa, "I'm expecting and soon to be a mom myself. Just things I can do to be more aware. Things I can do to set up boundaries, safeguards for my child and children hopefully in the future." (Fill that quiver, Jessa!) That's the last we see of any Duggars.

This segment is about 7 1/2 to 8 minutes, they're 36 minutes in at this point. Then we get the fourth survivor story. A 24 year old who called the RAINN hotline on her own father when she was 13. There's a recreation of some online RAINN chats inter cut with this story. This segment was also 7 1/2 - 8 minutes.

The final story is Cheryl Burke. She describes testifying in court when she was six years old. Obligatory montage with red carpet shots, talk show interview clip and dancing stills from the show. Her segment was about 6 minutes.

Now back to a teaser that Erin is pushing for legislation, followed by the narrator saying "...once the silence is broken, there is hope." And an expert saying that most fully recover mentally once there's intervention. More on Erin, she's inspired by her daughter, she reads fan letters, she testifies at hearings, goes on the news, hugs Oprah and promotes Erin's law. We get 5 1/2 minutes of this and then the last 3 minutes are about Erin surprising the 11 year old. That's the end, with one final public service announcement from Erin with info on RAINN.