CA has mandatory vaccination/CA Bans Personal Belief Exemp

[Snarkylark]

I think some of you need to read what I wrote again. I'm AGAINST FORCED vaccines, not vaccines in general. I never said or implied that vaccines cause autism and I already stated that I and my children are vaccinated against most things. I don't think the government should be telling us that we have to take any medical procedure. Period. That's what I have issue with, and you should too because some day it might be something YOU disagree with.

[VelociRapture]

May I suggest to all other posters that we don't :feed-trolls: anymore? Seriously, if they aren't taking the time to actually read our posts then they aren't going to get our point. :lol:

[Snarkylark]

As far as the polish goes, I've been considering Jamberry.

[Snarkylark]

May I suggest to all other posters that we don't :feed-trolls: anymore? Seriously, if they aren't taking the time to actually read our posts then they aren't going to get our point. :lol:

I've read every single post. Because I have my opinion that makes me a troll? Ok then;)

As a few other posters mentioned, they share the same concerns but are afraid to speak up because of this^

[The Duggar's Mohel]

I think some of you need to read what I wrote again. I'm AGAINST FORCED vaccines, not vaccines in general. I never said or implied that vaccines cause autism and I already stated that I and my children are vaccinated against most things. I don't think the government should be telling us that we have to take any medical procedure. Period. That's what I have issue with, and you should too because some day it might be something YOU disagree with.

I appreciate what you're trying to say, but in this instance for public safety I think it's a good call.

I'd also like to point out, and please know I'm not anti American, I'm a dual citizen who happens to live outside the US and has the perspective from living in a lot of places. This sort of debate really only happens in the US. I will look for the study and post it here if I can find it, but there was a recent study done that showed deaths in the state of Texas caused by the spreading of disease through vaccinated children, out numbered the rest of the first world by quite a bit. It's interesting to think about.

[VelociRapture]

I've read every single post. Because I have my opinion that makes me a troll? Ok then;)

As a few other posters mentioned, they share the same concerns but are afraid to speak up because of this^

No. You aren't a troll for stating your opinion.

You are a troll because you dragged abortion into a discussion that had nothing to do with it. Not only that, but you've been extremely argumentative about your views concerning abortion.

Seriously, feel however you fucking want about the vaccinations and about abortion. You have every right to share your opinion. There is no need to bring up your views on abortion in this thread though, especially not in the manner you did.

As for other posters, they can feel free to share their views as well. If we don't agree that's fine - if they approach the topic the way you have then yeah, they'll probably wind up in an argument of some sort with someone. That is how it works here.

[Evangeline]

Why the HELL are there so many nurses in this country who don't understand how vaccines work? Seriously, I cannot figure this out for the life of me. It seems like, if someone's going to post some stupid bullshit about how lemons cure cancer or essential oils cure ... everything or vaccines don't actually work, there's at least a 50% chance that person is a nurse. That's a big problem.

I think there are some legitimate issues with this legislation and I won't be surprised if it ultimately doesn't hold up as constitutional. But I can't even with this "Measles outbreak = vaccines don't work" shit. Herd immunity. It's not that difficult of a concept.

[SocietyfortheLibJessa]

As a person who gave vaccines and obtained informed consent from parents, I have to say that many of the people refusing, had done no research other than relying on hearsay. I would always tell them to do some research, and then give some written information and in addition, offer websites to peruse, to balance out the Pharm controlled written info/data available. I definetly think a balanced, educated approach is better. In my perfect world, the vaccine time schedule would be increased-it's all about money though, so that's why they give some many immunizations at one time; captive audience.

But I will say, many, if not most of those who refused, were doing so more because they could (advocacy in hyperdrive) vs for any medically grounded or scientific reason.

I think the state of CA just decided that the bandwagon approach had to end.

All of this is very important.

[TuringMachine]

No, I completely understand that. And I'd guess that MOST people are continuing to get their vaccinations. What I'm saying is for some people perhaps there's another choice. If these diseases start popping up again they can decide to get the vaccines. You all act as if the minirity who don't get vaccines are going to cause huge outbreaks where millions die. Well, if people are vaccinated and the vaccines work then you have nothing to worry about from a handful of people that choose to forego vaccinations.

This might be one of the worst things I've heard. Diseases start popping up again because people stop vaccinating. So what your plan is cause an outbreak then get your kid vaccinated? Well that's great if you're lucky and you kid wasn't one of the ones who got the disease and that your child is able to get one.

Which brings me to the whole "what are you worried about if your kid is vaccinated" argument. Plenty of children whose parents want them to be vaccinated can't be. Some kids have diseases like cancer or sever allergies that prevent them from getting them. Some kids are too young to get them. Take pertussis (whooping cough) for example. Because of people not vaccinating it is on the rise and has caused hundreds of deaths, almost all of them were infants.

You do not have the right to choose if someone else's child gets to live or die.

[VelociRapture]

Why the HELL are there so many nurses in this country who don't understand how vaccines work? Seriously, I cannot figure this out for the life of me. It seems like, if someone's going to post some stupid bullshit about how lemons cure cancer or essential oils cure ... everything or vaccines don't actually work, there's at least a 50% chance that person is a nurse. That's a big problem.

I think there are some legitimate issues with this legislation and I won't be surprised if it ultimately doesn't hold up as constitutional. But I can't even with this "Measles outbreak = vaccines don't work" shit. Herd immunity. It's not that difficult of a concept.

See, this is a good post. Not everyone is going to agree with each other regarding whether this is constitutional or not - but you did a good job at wording it, pointed out valid issues, and didn't bring up something that is completely and totally irrelevant to the discussion (like, say, abortion). This is the type of post that helps spark real debates and conversations - not simply cause the overall thread to derail into bickering.

[Maggie Mae]

I have a question for those more knowledgeable that myself.

Who pays for vaccinations?

As I said upthread, I have no issues with legislation that requires students to be vaccinated before attending a public school. I'm wondering who pays for the required vaccine.

I have issues with forcing people to pay for things that is required. Raise taxes and have everyone get the required vaccine/insurance/car seat/crib through the state; or don't mandate that people must have it. I'm not saying that I wish car seat/insurance/crib mandates didn't exist; just that in my dream world the US would have better public health with free helmets, cribs (or baby boxes), car seats, and flotation devices for children. People would still be free to purchase nicer items if they desired, of course. Also women would get a couple of reusable menstrual cups and there would be no stigma.

[momof2treasures]

Why the HELL are there so many nurses in this country who don't understand how vaccines work? Seriously, I cannot figure this out for the life of me. It seems like, if someone's going to post some stupid bullshit about how lemons cure cancer or essential oils cure ... everything or vaccines don't actually work, there's at least a 50% chance that person is a nurse. That's a big problem.

I think there are some legitimate issues with this legislation and I won't be surprised if it ultimately doesn't hold up as constitutional. But I can't even with this "Measles outbreak = vaccines don't work" shit. Herd immunity. It's not that difficult of a concept.

Well I had to reply to this one! I am a nurse and I do know how vaccines work! Unfortunately on this board there are extremists who use their profession as a way to gain credibility. Most degreed health professionals ( I love this term btw!) that I know are for preventive health care and do understand it.

[FakePigtails]

There's a huge difference between opposing a law on principle and using bad science to justify considering it a bad law.

[Georgiana]

Georgiana, your post makes me incredibly sad.

Why? My decision was the right one for me and has allowed me to live a life that makes me incredibly happy. It allowed the man involved (who has become a very close friend) to also live a fulfilling life that makes HIM incredibly happy. It was tough situation, a tough decision, but it was the right one, and honestly everyone is happier for it. The only tough part about it was that recovery was impeded by the stigma and secrecy that society still demands.

If we're being really honest, I've come to a place where I am PROUD of the decision I made. I did something that went against all the dogma I had grown up with, the values I had been taught, something that I knew I would have to recover from in secret with limited support, something I knew would be tough for a time....but I did it anyway because I felt it was RIGHT. For me. For the man. For the fetus. You may not agree with my decision, but I am proud that I did what I felt was the right thing even when everything was stacked against me. I look at my friend living this amazing life, and sometimes I think "I contributed to that by not trapping us in a life neither of us wanted". It's a good feeling.

I'm doing things today that make me incredibly happy and fulfilled. Things I NEVER could have done with a toddler. I'm a stronger person, a kinder person, a better person for the choice I made. It's not the right choice for everyone, and some people really regret it. That's valid.

But that's not everyone. That's not me.

If my choice makes you sad, then I guess you have to be sad. If you're sorry I made the choice I made, if you're upset I don't have some sort of martyr story (although I wasn't having the easiest pregnancy physically and that did contribute), if you're mad there are women like me who would choose themselves and their happiness over a hypothetical baby, ok. But I'm not sorry at all.

I'm truly and genuinely HAPPY.

[FundieFarmer]

Regarding Maggie Mae's post...I think parents pay for it, in the appointment at the doctor. That's my understanding from my experience, at least. I do think there are some free shot clinics, and primary care appointments on my insurance are $10, everything included. Kids have to complete physicals anyway in order to be eligible for enrollment, so they'd be included in that cost.

I don't think it's unreasonable for the system that's managing itself to require some minimum requirements for participation, for an otherwise free service (after taxes). If the school wants to set physicals and vaccines as a requirement, I think that's reasonable. Public schools in my area require iPads, and if you don't have one or don't believe in iPads, you go to another school in the district where it's not a requirement or you find another option. That's nowhere near as necessary as vaccines, and still it passes. If you don't want to vaxx, you can find another option that doesn't require it.

[happy atheist]

As I posted, those aren't my words. I should have deleted the Hitler point. That was not the point I was trying to get across. It was another poster that I had copied and pasted and in my haste to post didn't remove that line. And I'm not here trolling. Lol

So are you plagiarizing, or are you copying and pasting from a "Godwinning for Trolls" form letter?

[Evangeline]

Well I had to reply to this one! I am a nurse and I do know how vaccines work! Unfortunately on this board there are extremists who use their profession as a way to gain credibility. Most degreed health professionals ( I love this term btw!) that I know are for preventive health care and do understand it.

I don't mean to imply that all, or even most, nurses are dumb. I definitely don't think that! I know many smart cookies who are in medicine. I just don't understand why I also know so many who don't understand basic science. If you don't mind me asking, what is taught in nursing school about medical research, what it takes to get treatments accepted, what distinguishes data from anecdotes, etc.?

[tapdancer493]

When I had an abortion, there was 1 person medically impacted: me. No one else got sick. No one else was hurt.

Medically speaking, I had some tissue removed from my body removed that was making me sick. Just like in my tonsillectomy.

My friend's brother died of meningitis. I have seen people twisted and permanently disabled from polio. An infant died from exposure to measles from an unvaccinated child in a waiting room in Germany. Those people didn't have a say in the choice whether to vaccinate someone else or not, but that person's choice caused irreparable harm to them.

It's like drunk driving. I have the right to get drunk because that impacts only me. My liver, my choice. However, I do NOT have the right to get drunk and then engage in behavior that endangers others.

Living "naturally", all people have all freedoms. Without society, you could just murder someone and take their stuff without consequences. Except, of course, you would have to live in fear of people doing the same to you. People agree to sacrifice some of those freedoms for the benefits and security of a society, and the society itself determines which freedoms to restrict. Not vaccinating endangers others. You do not have the right to endanger others, and society can choose to protect itself from that behavior.

If you want that freedom, you can have it. You CAN go live off the grid or form your own colony. No one is stopping you. But if you want the benefits of a society you have to play by society's rules.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[tapdancer493]

Sometimes I wish I could push people down their "slippery slope" arguments. They can check out the bottom for the rest of us :lol:

[formergothardite]

I have a question for those more knowledgeable that myself.

Who pays for vaccinations?

As I said upthread, I have no issues with legislation that requires students to be vaccinated before attending a public school. I'm wondering who pays for the required vaccine.

I have issues with forcing people to pay for things that is required. Raise taxes and have everyone get the required vaccine/insurance/car seat/crib through the state; or don't mandate that people must have it. I'm not saying that I wish car seat/insurance/crib mandates didn't exist; just that in my dream world the US would have better public health with free helmets, cribs (or baby boxes), car seats, and flotation devices for children. People would still be free to purchase nicer items if they desired, of course. Also women would get a couple of reusable menstrual cups and there would be no stigma.

Where I live if you can't afford to pay for the vaccines or you are uninsured then you can get them at the health department for free.

[Maggie Mae]

Regarding Maggie Mae's post...I think parents pay for it, in the appointment at the doctor. That's my understanding from my experience, at least. I do think there are some free shot clinics, and primary care appointments on my insurance are $10, everything included. Kids have to complete physicals anyway in order to be eligible for enrollment, so they'd be included in that cost.

I don't think it's unreasonable for the system that's managing itself to require some minimum requirements for participation, for an otherwise free service (after taxes). If the school wants to set physicals and vaccines as a requirement, I think that's reasonable. Public schools in my area require iPads, and if you don't have one or don't believe in iPads, you go to another school in the district where it's not a requirement or you find another option. That's nowhere near as necessary as vaccines, and still it passes. If you don't want to vaxx, you can find another option that doesn't require it.

I wouldn't say it's unreasonable for a school system to require minimum requirements for participation. However, I think that in the interest of public health, vaccines should be required and paid for by the state public health department. For everyone. Not just the people with income under a certain level.

The iPad thing pisses me off. If they want students to have iPads, the public school should provide the iPad. And furthermore, they shouldn't be tied to a brand like that.

[Snarkylark]

So are you plagiarizing, or are you copying and pasting from a "Godwinning for Trolls" form letter?

I stated at the beginning that they weren't my words.

[Eponine]

Why the HELL are there so many nurses in this country who don't understand how vaccines work? Seriously, I cannot figure this out for the life of me. It seems like, if someone's going to post some stupid bullshit about how lemons cure cancer or essential oils cure ... everything or vaccines don't actually work, there's at least a 50% chance that person is a nurse. That's a big problem.

I think there are some legitimate issues with this legislation and I won't be surprised if it ultimately doesn't hold up as constitutional. But I can't even with this "Measles outbreak = vaccines don't work" shit. Herd immunity. It's not that difficult of a concept.

I've been wondering this exact same thing! It seems like the concept of herd immunity should be a no-brainer for a Degreed Medical Professional. Not that it's all nurses by any means but I guess I imagine nurses should be more up on this sort of thing.

While there might be some issues with the California decision there is no way any educated person should be arguing it from a "don't worry about diseases because MOST people are vaccinated!" standpoint. That is straight up incorrect and dangerous.

Signed,

Someone who barely survived getting meningitis as a baby too young to get the vaccine

[The Duggar's Mohel]

"As I said upthread, I have no issues with legislation that requires students to be vaccinated before attending a public school. I'm wondering who pays for the required vaccine. "

Again, I love that this "who pays for it" question only exists in the USA as far as the first world goes. Public safety should be paid for by public medicine. It works pretty much everywhere, but for a portion of America it's Hitler.

The mind boggles, but i love all of you. :)

[Edhelfin]

Abortion, Godwin's Law, ad hominem arguments... words cannot express how tiring it is to hear those.

The life that the woman is not conscious enough to even realize it is being terminated.

Hundreds of walking, talking, feeling beings that may be harmed because of people who 'choose' not to vaccinate though... argh why do I have a feeling you already about know these anyway. Back to my hole.