Dillwalds at ALIVE

[Ofglen]

Would you wear your dress-down clothes when you're a paid speaker? Something I think the younger gen is not learning is how what you wear helps send your message or breaks it. This goes for everyday stuff, and triply for when you're doing business, and a speaking engagement is business.

I think a lot of us are trying to send the message, "Listen to what we're saying/doing, not what we look like." So imo, the Dillwalds should not be hired, but not because they don't look put together.

I'm in a performance based career that's very focused on professional appearances. Recently I had an interesting conversation with a colleague of mine about how he's interested in breaking down the barriers of professional/formal dress for performers and audience members alike (among other things that make our field inaccessible). Performers in my field get paid poorly, yet are expected to wear expensive, professional, clothing all the time, own multiple gowns/tuxes, etc. It's simply not realistic. It has become a real problem. A lot of the performers I know simply don't have the adequate attire that's currently necessary because they just can't afford it. Professional, stylish, tailored, and sharp looking attire, in any field, regardless of whether it's formal (though formal clothes obviously do cost more) take a lot of energy and money to maintain.

Obviously not all fields are as excessive as mine, and some are worse. I just kind of wanted to bring attention to the fact that it's not always unintentional when younger people dress casually to functions that one might not have a few decades ago. With many people obviously the casual dress choice may not be deliberate, and I think it's still having/going to have a good effect of making professional careers more accessible to lower classes/other people who may not always be able to dress "professionally" for whatever reason (for ex., disabled people).

I know people disagree with me a lot on FJ, but anyway, those are my :twocents-02cents:

(Note: obviously the Dillwalds have stylists, or did. Most people aren't the Dillwalds.)

As for everyday stuff, if someone has a problem with me wearing yoga pants while I buy my groceries, you might just have to get over it. I'm not gonna put on makeup to go to Trader Joes tbh. Priorities.

[Imagine20]

Shouldn't what their wearing draw attention to them on stage? Maybe still casual, but more vibrant colors, better makeup, and better hair styles. If people don't want to look at you, they sure as hell don't want to listen to you.

[formergothardite]

I really don't get what is so horrible wrong with their outfits. I went to a local community event and one of the women speaking was wearing an outfit similar to what they are wearing. Nobody seemed to think it was a big deal.

Does anyone know what they actually said? There has been so much discussion on their clothes, but very little about what they were talking about.

[Four is Enough]

I'm in a performance based career that's very focused on professional appearances. Recently I had an interesting conversation with a colleague of mine about how he's interested in breaking down the barriers of professional/formal dress for performers and audience members alike (among other things that make our field inaccessible). Performers in my field get paid poorly, yet are expected to wear expensive, professional, clothing all the time, own multiple gowns/tuxes, etc. It's simply not realistic. It has become a real problem. A lot of the performers I know simply don't have the adequate attire that's currently necessary because they just can't afford it. Professional, stylish, tailored, and sharp looking attire, in any field, regardless of whether it's formal (though formal clothes obviously do cost more) take a lot of energy and money to maintain.

Obviously not all fields are as excessive as mine, and some are worse. I just kind of wanted to bring attention to the fact that it's not always unintentional when younger people dress casually to functions that one might not have a few decades ago. With many people obviously the casual dress choice may not be deliberate, and I think it's still having/going to have a good effect of making professional careers more accessible to lower classes/other people who may not always be able to dress "professionally" for whatever reason (for ex., disabled people).

There are ways, and there are ways. I do believe it is easier for women to dress well and stylishly, even with formal wear, because of the many re-sale shops available to us. So if you are in an orchestra, (I'm guessing) a re-sale shop can save LOTS of money on those items. Cleaning and dry-cleaning are still issues, but we can all step back and do what our mothers did, without cleaning something every time we wear it. Immediately after wearing, if possible, change out of the outfit and hang it. Our mothers and grandmothers, who wore rayon and other hard to clean fabrics in the 40s, who also didn't have all the deodorants we have, wore undergarments, such as slips, and armpit pads to collect perspiration. They hung their items to air, spot cleaned them by hand, and only had them professionally cleaned occasionally. Slips, while way out of fashion, will help to collect sweat, and they are much easier to clean than the entire dress.

Another way is to stitch your professional wardrobe yourself, if possible, or to make the acquaintance of someone who sews well. Fabric sales and notion sales really stretch the budget.

However, If you ARE in an orchestra, I sympathize with you. Outdoor, especially summer concerts, must be extremely difficult. I agree that a suitable change of wardrobe could help immensely.

I was once a uniform mother for a very stubborn high school band director. This man made the students march FOUR July 4 parades (over two days) in their heavy wool/Dacron, well-fitted suits. We begged yearly for him to allow them a summer uniform. The uniforms would come back (smelling to high heaven, and still sweaty) and we'd have to spot the sweat stains off of them, and press them, and hang them back in the closet.. sometimes, they'd hang in the band room for DAYS to dry off. He said that the uniforms identified the band. We said we were tired of picking the tuba players and the drummers up off the streets when they fainted in the heat.

Long story short, (too late, I know) he finally relented and the band wears khaki shorts and a polo to march the summer parades. The uniforms are happier, the band is more enthusiastic, and the band uniform mothers are happier... It's still a "look" and it is more casual and comfortable.

[halcionne]

I really don't get what is so horrible wrong with their outfits. I went to a local community event and one of the women speaking was wearing an outfit similar to what they are wearing. Nobody seemed to think it was a big deal.

Does anyone know what they actually said? There has been so much discussion on their clothes, but very little about what they were talking about.

http://www.people.com/article/jill-dugg ... e-festival

While the sisters never directly addressed the scandal, Jill did say that one of the messages of their hit show, 19 Kids and Counting, is that their family has struggles.

"Hey we’re not a perfect family, we mess up," she told the crowd during a Q&A-style session on the festival's Beach stage. "Imagine what life is like with a family with two or three kids and multiply that about 10 times over and that's what you get."

Derick said being Pistol Pete prepared him to be a Duggar. Jessa declined to reveal the sex of her fetus and maintains that they are taking steps to adopt.

[19 cats and counting]

Boob and DQ are horribly underdressed for the occasion. Damn, even I (the forever underdressed redneck) knows how to dress for certain occasions. I've discovered that living here in the desert SW, things are a LOT more casual...a dress, no hose and sandals work for almost any occasions except for incredibly professional (executive level) or black/white tie events.

It's one thing for JB not to wear a tux. You can dress up a regular suit (at the very least white shirt and tie). But Michelle looks horrible. She could have worn Jessa's MOB dress (not Jill's please, that monstrosity needs to go to the burn pile with the lime green shirt) and it would have been fine for the occasion. It's not like she needed to go shopping.

I go to a lot of political functions (nothing black tie as I sold my old bridesmaid's dress so I would have to go shopping for that). BUt hose are out of place for most people under 40 because well they're evil and uncomfortable. At a job fair in DC last week, most of the women were wearing a dress (above the knee) and flats (no hose). IT was over 90 and humid. (I packed a cardigan just in case and it stayed in my bag the whole time).

(I'm in the northeast and the only women I know of who wear hose are required to by dress code or over 40). I don't own any and haven't worn them since my sister's wedding (2009). In the winter I wear leggings and boots.

[formergothardite]

http://www.people.com/article/jill-dugg ... e-festival

Derick said being Pistol Pete prepared him to be a Duggar. Jessa declined to reveal the sex of her fetus and maintains that they are taking steps to adopt.

So basically they are going with "Nobody is perfect" as an excuse for their parents covering up abuse? Not that I'm surprised, but if they keep doing these sorts of public talks, one of these days someone is going to call them out on it and they won't know how to answer.

[blessalessi]

I was also hoping this thread would be about what they said rather than what they wore. Will have to do some digging...

[Rachel333]

Sadly, I am getting used to seeing people in their pyjamas at the grocery store or even on a plane for that matter. But who cares if if you look like a slob when all that matters is comfort? :roll:

I... really don't care? Certain events require certain clothing, sure, but I honestly don't see what's so bad about prioritizing comfort in those situations. Especially on an airplane, which is already uncomfortable.

I have a rule for myself that I wear real pants outside the house, because otherwise I would probably just live in sweat pants, but I do not care at all what other people wear to the store.

[VelociRapture]

I was also hoping this thread would be about what they said rather than what they wore. Will have to do some digging...

Welcome to FJ - where every poster is a Doctor, Lawyer, Private Investigator, and Stylist. :lol:

[formergothardite]

There's a whole website devoted to people who show up at Walmart in pajamas (or worse) so as long as you don't make that site you're forgiven :-)

During my 20's and early 30's I used to really, really care about what strangers thought of me when I went out in public. As I have gotten older, I have stopped giving a damn. :lol:

I typically get dressed to go out(perhaps not to the standards of some posters here), but there have been two occasions where I was like "fuck it, I'm not putting on real pants to go to Walmart."

[EmmieJ]

I... really don't care? Certain events require certain clothing, sure, but I honestly don't see what's so bad about prioritizing comfort in those situations. Especially on an airplane, which is already uncomfortable.

I have a rule for myself that I wear real pants outside the house, because otherwise I would probably just live in sweat pants, but I do not care at all what other people wear to the store.

I'll take seeing a man in his pajama pants any day over a guy in bicycle shorts. I don't care how in shape a man might be, I think bicycle shorts look hideous. But that's just me and I can always avert my eyes.

I mostly don't care what other people are wearing, as long as it provides basic coverage and they don't have a strong body odor. Be clean, be neat, that's all I ask.

[Walking Cat Bed]

During my 20's and early 30's I used to really, really care about what strangers thought of me when I went out in public. As I have gotten older, I have stopped giving a damn. :lol:

I typically get dressed to go out(perhaps not to the standards of some posters here), but there have been two occasions where I was like "fuck it, I'm not putting on real pants to go to Walmart."

My main priority is adequate pockets. If it's cold and miserable, sweatpants' pockets will do -- but I typically go for jeans or shorts. Otherwise, clean and with properly restrained tetons and decent enough hair work for errands.

[Rainytown]

Boob and DQ are horribly underdressed for the occasion. Damn, even I (the forever underdressed redneck) knows how to dress for certain occasions. I've discovered that living here in the desert SW, things are a LOT more casual...a dress, no hose and sandals work for almost any occasions except for incredibly professional (executive level) or black/white tie events.

I think it's comical that Jim Boob and J-Chelle are so convinced of their own superiority in all things they don't bother to observe the social and professional niceties other people do. In other words, the dress code at that particular event must have been cocktail or evening dresses for women/suits or formalwear for men, and they believe "aw, shucks" will get them by.

We live in an area of the country that boasts some of the richest people in the world. The West Coast is notoriously casual. In other words, Bill Gates and Paul Allen (as well as innumerable upper level executives at Microsoft) kept getting kicked out of the nicer restaurants here until the word spread that they would probably show up in jeans/chinos and a button-down shirt for dinner. The rules changed. It's possible to go to almost anything here in jeans, as long as one is clean and presentable. (People show up at the symphony in jeans or business casual, for instance.) There's ONE restaurant in Seattle right now that requires men wear jackets for dinner. Obviously, things change, and formal dressing is not as critical as it once was socially. At the same time, I am amazed that two adults who star in a television show are not more interested in the impression they make when they go out in public, let alone their adult children.

Jim Boob and J-Chelle have the money to go to a personal shopper at Nordstrom or hire a stylist to put together a few outfits for the various events they are asked to attend. It's astonishing to me that they haven't done it. Do they believe their lack of polish is cute or amusing? I'm no fashion plate, but it's possible to get a little black dress, a good pair of shoes and some nice fake pearls (if Jim Boob's not springing for the real thing) for $200 or so. I'm sure it's too much to ask J-Chelle if she'd splurge on an updo or perhaps some red lipstick for a more formal event.

They've also taught their children that it's not only fine to be late, it's acceptable to dress inappropriately or sloppily for public appearances, too. Nobody's expecting haute couture. It's always nice to look neat, presentable, and like you cared enough to actually make an effort.

[PreciousPantsofDoom]

Thanks for the clarification, I'll look into it more. I haven't read it but I know I was told it was based on a routine of Eat.Play.Sleep or it may be Baby Whisperer I heard about that uses that routine, which doesn't seem harmful, it sounds benigh but who really knows until you delve deeper into the philosophy behind it. Thanks for the links. I'll read up on it.

I know the threat has moved on to other things by now, but I was just catching up and saw the stuff about The Baby Whisperer. I did read a couple of her books a looong time ago. She was a baby nurse from England and, from what I recall, her books were mostly common sense stuff about following a simple,but flexible routine (no blanket training or leaving a baby to cry it out to the point of dehydration) Her basic schedule was called EASY (Eat,Activity of some sort (which could be anything from play to bathe the baby) Sleep, You (this was she you were supposed to nap or take a shower or whatever.) I can't remember now what you were supposed to do if the baby feel asleep while feeding before you got to the activity part. Hmm. Anyway, the idea was that the baby should learn how to self soothe and go to sleep without relying on falling asleep while nursing.

I just Googled her (Tracey Hogg) and saw that she died in 2004 of Melanoma.

[halcionne]

I'm not defending her, but that purple jacket thing is Michelle's dressy outfit. She wore it to the homeschool roundtable with Huckabee and to a prolife fundraiser in Georgia. Both events were in April, iirc, and discussed here.

Name recognition and star power from the show made the Duggars sought-after speakers in fundie circles, imo, but now that's gone and they never bothered to learn how to capitalize on it with media training or, hell, joining a toastmasters club. Bill Gothard should've developed a public speaking program at IBLP. :lol: Maybe there is one--some fundies are all about speech and debate; I guess the Duggars didn't think they need it. :roll:

[NoneandDoneinCali]

Okay, but there's a difference between wearing leisure pants and a tank top/sports bra to the grocery store (or, in my case, a bathing suit under a full-coverage cover-up with flip flops, because it's near the beach and HOT), and wearing something appropriate for a professional appearance. If you're running errands or whatever, and you're comfortable with it, you can be greasy hair don't care. If someone is paying you upwards of $5,000 to put in an appearance, or you are appearing on camera in some fashion, it is part of your JOB to look put-together. If your entire JOB is to give interviews for an hour once every two weeks as an authority on marriage, then yes, you can uncrunch your f*cking hair and tone down the teeny bopper lipgloss.

Many of us don't have the money to wear the latest professional or formal fashions, and we do the best we can with simple designs, thin cardigans, colored flats, and Target jewelry. We may buy a nice piece once a year, and take good care of it. The Dillwads and Blessas do not have this problem - they have the funds AND have had wardrobe people and stylists to help them. The thing is, they don't care. They are sheltered and accustomed to being universally beloved (by only being exposed to leghumpers) and they could give two shits what the rest of the world is doing. It goes back to modesty versus "modesty." It's another way to be on Duggar time, plus, no matter WHAT they wear, some acolyte of theirs is going to gush over it.

IMHO, the whole point of dressing a certain way professionally and for events is so that you fit in. Not conform, necessarily, but if selling a house, I don't want my appearance to be a "conversation stopper." No, the focus should be on my salesmanship and the house. If I'm at a wedding, my clothes should reflect the respect I have for the couple, as I will probably appear in their pictures. Right? Other than that, I agree. No one needs to be the fashion police at the store, or check what designer you're wearing.

[Imrlgoddess]

Thinking on the girls' wardrobe...the closet at the TTH was huge, but dividing clothing between 5-6 girls roughly the same size might have gotten hairy. They mentioned several times over the years that they shared a lot and there weren't that many pieces that belonged to one girl vs another. I wonder when Jessa and Jill packed to move out if they didn't just grab the bits that were their favorites and went with it. Jill strikes me as low maintenance so she's going to grab whatever is most comfortable and clean at the time...thus knits for a giant concert. If Mama taught them that spending money on themselves is sinful...then they won't hit the stores to dress for an occasion.

JB should have known what he and his wife needed for campaign dinners and such. Granted there are varying degrees of formal that can be followed for different events, it's a balancing act. They have to maintain that air of humility...can't be wearing wool suits and chiffon and cling to the "ministry" title.

:) :)

[DeFrauder]

I was also hoping this thread would be about what they said rather than what they wore. Will have to do some digging...

They didn't say much, apparently: What they said at Alive

[halcionne]

They didn't say much, apparently: What they said at Alive

Aw, Ben didn't get quoted here or in People. He didn't get mentioned in the paparazzi story either. Nobody cares about Ben. :wink-penguin:

[MatthewDuggar]

They didn't say much, apparently: What they said at Alive

Exactly! If they had said anything of any importance, I am sure it would have been heavily reported and we'd most certainly be discussing it! Keep digging, I doubt you'll find anything. These are people that can't seem to come up with any kind of original thought or idea. Instead you have Jill blabbing on the same BS while Bin looks down at his shoes. (he probably was wondering who was going to tie them for him)

I'm hoping this is the last the public gets of these casually dressed reality TV rejects.

[DeFrauder]

https://instagram.com/p/yiu6PCOWAO/

Found it! This is from Josh's Instagram. JBoob and DQ look so out of place in this photo, at what is obviously a black tie affair.

Oh goody! Defrauder the stylist here!

Michelle: is that jacket satin? It looks like satin or silk and if it is I am going to go with it being acceptable for the occasion especially if worn over a floor length black dress. It is irrelevant if the outfit is too old for her (it kind of is) or unflattering. She is properly dressed for this occasion. Unless that dress is a jersey knit. Then she needed a more appropriate fabric.

Jim Bob: He is not appropriately dressed. A plain black business suit is fine for the type of guy that never finds himself at black tie events, but suddenly is expected to show up at one. His shirt and tie is all wrong. He should be wearing a white tuxedo shirt and a black bow tie with his black suit. That is all he needed to be appropriately dressed for this event.

Josh: appropriately dressed in a black tuxedo, white shirt and black bowtie. The ill-fittingness is irrelevant.

Anna: What the hell? Is that a jersey knit day dress? Her dress is not appropriate for the occasion, nor does it match what her husband is wearing. It makes it look like he wont even buy her a dress or that he purposely does not want her to look pretty for the occasion. If he is wearing a tuxedo, she should be wearing a long formal dress. Something like this It would still meet modesty requirements.

Its not that difficult to follow dress code rules. In fact---they already know all about dress code rules, don't they? If they want to be taken seriously by the people that go to these types of events they need to look the part.

EDIT: Does Michelle have her sleeve rolled up? UGH. It takes NOTHING to hem those sleeves to the proper length!

[Snarkylark]

Nothing wrong with Babywise, if used correctly the way it's intended. I used it with my four, they are healthy and happy and sleep well! As with any program or routine, there's the potential for abuse or people doing it wrong. The Ezzo's stress flexibility, within reason. I would have been clueless when I had my first, had it not been for their series. I don't think it's fair to feed babies every 29 minutes, either. Then they aren't getting a full belly or adequate sleep, etc. It isn't so much about "crying it out" as it is about helping your baby learn to self soothe, a necessary tool!

[DGayle]

I think a lot of us are trying to send the message, "Listen to what we're saying/doing, not what we look like." So imo, the Dillwalds should not be hired, but not because they don't look put together.

I'm in a performance based career that's very focused on professional appearances. Recently I had an interesting conversation with a colleague of mine about how he's interested in breaking down the barriers of professional/formal dress for performers and audience members alike (among other things that make our field inaccessible). Performers in my field get paid poorly, yet are expected to wear expensive, professional, clothing all the time, own multiple gowns/tuxes, etc. It's simply not realistic. It has become a real problem. A lot of the performers I know simply don't have the adequate attire that's currently necessary because they just can't afford it. Professional, stylish, tailored, and sharp looking attire, in any field, regardless of whether it's formal (though formal clothes obviously do cost more) take a lot of energy and money to maintain.

Obviously not all fields are as excessive as mine, and some are worse. I just kind of wanted to bring attention to the fact that it's not always unintentional when younger people dress casually to functions that one might not have a few decades ago. With many people obviously the casual dress choice may not be deliberate, and I think it's still having/going to have a good effect of making professional careers more accessible to lower classes/other people who may not always be able to dress "professionally" for whatever reason (for ex., disabled people).

I know people disagree with me a lot on FJ, but anyway, those are my :twocents-02cents:

(Note: obviously the Dillwalds have stylists, or did. Most people aren't the Dillwalds.)

As for everyday stuff, if someone has a problem with me wearing yoga pants while I buy my groceries, you might just have to get over it. I'm not gonna put on makeup to go to Trader Joes tbh. Priorities.

We aren't talking about the Dillwards wearing evening gowns and tuxes, but about them dressing appropriately, which means not looking like a speaking engagement is just another of that day's errands between getting more milk and loading up on diapers.

A lot of thrift stores have slacks and nice blouses for work. I don't know of any regular jobs that require regularly wearing tuxes. It's appropriate for a lot of office jobs to require something more than cut-offs ad tank tops. That doesn't make jobs inaccessible to people. If you're going to a thrift store to shop anyway, choose slacks over jeans. At my local Goodwill, jeans cost the same as slacks, sometimes more, and blouses cost the same or less than casual tops. What would be my excuse for having nothing professional to wear to a job? My choices.

Someone high enough in most jobs to be a paid speaker should be paid enough to buy something professional to wear.

[DGayle]

I'll take seeing a man in his pajama pants any day over a guy in bicycle shorts. I don't care how in shape a man might be, I think bicycle shorts look hideous. But that's just me and I can always avert my eyes.

I mostly don't care what other people are wearing, as long as it provides basic coverage and they don't have a strong body odor. Be clean, be neat, that's all I ask.

You don't want to come here, where people in pajama pants really did usually just role out of the bed, and look like they didn't bother even to wash their faces, with oily hair. One of my friends went to the store that way with me, after an overnighter at her house. I got dressed, she didn't, and she said anyone with a problem with her BO can shove it. I'm sorry, but when you're not washed and you have the means to bathe, but just don't feel like it, keep your ass home. I'm less bothered by yoga pants (here, yoga-pants wearers are image-conscious and clean), but very bothered by the unwashed pajama pants people who go out in pajamas because they don't care to get dressed, much less bathe. Here, it's not people tossing on pajamas and going out for a last-minute run at night. It's people not bothering to clean their bodies during the day.