New DHS Probe

[justoneoftwo]

IMO the jury is still out to the legitimacy of the 11 year old playing outside for 90 minutes story. When I saw it I did a search (and then again today when I saw your post) all the articles are almost identical. None of the websites are legitimate news sites. No local news agency picked up the story (cbs, nbc, abc, or fox). Makes me think it is made up story.

Thank you for the information, what about the one in Maryland where the kid walked home from school, is that one questioned?

[CBinMI]

Long time homeschooler here. I have been involved in homeschool communities in two different counties for 19 years. I have seen amazing successes and utter failures. I do not believe it is unrealistic to say it is 50/50.

For our family, we are christian but did not choose to homeschool for religious reasons. Our local school district was suffering greatly and not a good place for children who excel which is what led us to our decision homeschool. For us, it has been a success but only because of the full time work and a large amount of money. It can be done right but it is a huge commitment. I have seen over the years people thinking it would be easier but in reality it is very difficult.

Our oldest finished a business program at 19 and bought her own home with no co-signer at 21. Child number two became an RN at 19 and is enjoying life as a young person with a great career. Next one will be done with a trade program at 18 and have a great career.

This past fall my part time college schedule became full time and I knew I could not do homeschooling justice for two years so I put my children in a charter school overseen by a college. It is an great school rated 37 out of 600 charter schools.

My 8th grader tested at 11 and 12th grade in all subjects. He won the presidential academic excellence award. My 3rd grader tested at 5th grade and won an award for his grades.

Not to be a braggart but just to let those who received a less than adequate education know there are many great experiences. You know the saying, "There's two sides to every pancake." :-)

[Rachel333]

I didn't have a bad homeschool experience, and I never said I did. I want to be very clear that I am not anti-homeschooling! I switched from homeschooling to public school (which I did like much better) in high school and I graduated as valedictorian and got a great scholarship to college. While I was homeschooled I consistently tested in the 99th percentile on all the standardized tests I took. Also, (unlike most homeschooled kids) both my parents had at least Masters degrees in education. I do have mixed feelings about my experience (as do most homeschooled kids I've talked to), but I feel like I did get a good education.

My reasons for concern are not because of my own experience but because of the many cases I've seen where kids did not get a good education. What I'd like to see is for homeschooling parents to just have to show that they are educating their kids, that's all.

I was homeschooled in a state where we had to take standardized tests every few years, but nothing really happened if you didn't do well on them or even if you didn't take them at all. (The Duggars did take them, by the way; I always took my tests in the same room as John-David, Jana, and Jill.) Now I live in a state where homeschooling parents have to create a portfolio and have someone look it over once a year. I think that's a pretty good way to do it, and my mom has found it has been good as she's homeschooling my younger siblings because it helps keep them all on track. I don't think that's too much government "interference," and it's a lot better than states like Oklahoma where there is no oversight at all. In those states you can say you're homeschooling your children and easily get away with doing absolutely nothing with them.

This isn't about the government listening to everything you say and saying that if you do nothing wrong you shouldn't worry, this is just saying that kids deserve someone checking in once in a while to see that they actually are being educated.

[Handmaiden of Dog]

Yes, totally (thank you, Jill). There sure are successes and failures in both camps. But as you say, maybe my child is just academically inclined and would do well in ANY school. But she didn't attend ANY school. She was homeschooled, and it was successful, in spite of your views on homeschooling. By your token, maybe homeschoolers who feel academically failed by their homeschool experiences would have failed regardless of the type of schooling as well. And also by your token, we can't possibly conclude that successful students in public education are the result of excellent teachers. See, so very subjective.

Why so defensive, btw? Really,what do you care if someone doesn't look at my lesson plan? (How do you know they haven't?

How do you know my students haven't taken a test now and then? Stop assuming.)

So, you believe in imposing on the right of a parent to direct the education of his/her child. I have to wonder what other rights do you believe in imposing on. I mean, when the Duggars are judged for failing at the education of their children, but yet you can't accept that others are succeeding either, that just sounds....intolerant. And to be clear, I didn't "completely disregard" someone's experience. (but yeah, that would be a tad hypocritical of you to accuse me of that, when you presumed to suggest my child's home education experience might not be authentically successful, but perhaps only coincidental. Yeah, definitely hypocritical of you.)

As for anecdotal evidence, is that what really you want? :think: Doubt it,but you'd have to live in a cave to not be aware of the shortcomings with public education. In the meantime, I'll continue to exercise my right to direct the education of my children as I see fit, and while others might not have had a decent home education, I'm confident my children are receiving one and the proof is in their academic and social ability.

The government and society as a whole has an interest in how you raise your children. You have to use seatbelts when transporting your child in a car. You cannot give them alcohol. You cannot allow them to stay home alone without supervision under a certain age (this may vary from state to state.) There are all sorts of regulations and rules in place to protect the child. Why? Because society recognizes that children are independent citizens whose interests should be looked after regardless of what their parents want. Furthermore in the education of children we, as a society, prefer that our citizens be as educated as possible so that they can contribute to society in a meaningful way and not be a burden. I personally would prefer that all citizens be able to read, for example, because an informed citizen can make better choices when it comes to voting and consuming.

Your children are not your personal possession; they are human beings in their own rights.

[Palimpsest]

What HandmaidenofDog said.

I'll just add that education is a Human Right.

[justoneoftwo]

The government and society as a whole has an interest in how you raise your children. You have to use seatbelts when transporting your child in a car. You cannot give them alcohol. You cannot allow them to stay home alone without supervision under a certain age (this may vary from state to state.) There are all sorts of regulations and rules in place to protect the child. Why? Because society recognizes that children are independent citizens whose interests should be looked after regardless of what their parents want. Furthermore in the education of children we, as a society, prefer that our citizens be as educated as possible so that they can contribute to society in a meaningful way and not be a burden. I personally would prefer that all citizens be able to read, for example, because an informed citizen can make better choices when it comes to voting and consuming.

Your children are not your personal possession; they are human beings in their own rights.

Of course they are human beings with their own rights, but generally there is a bit of a balancing question for young children. Similarly, parents are assumed to have rights about how to raise their children. Do parents have the right to make them go to church? Most would say yes, but children have a right of freedom of religion. The state has an interest in having children educated in a particular way, yes, but parents have an interest and a right to raise their children their own way. The entire discussion is really about how these interests should be balanced, and its a difficult one, as it always is when two or more individual's rights interact, and when there is a state interest which may be counter to both of those rights.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

Yes, totally (thank you, Jill). There sure are successes and failures in both camps. But as you say, maybe my child is just academically inclined and would do well in ANY school. But she didn't attend ANY school. She was homeschooled, and it was successful, in spite of your views on homeschooling. By your token, maybe homeschoolers who feel academically failed by their homeschool experiences would have failed regardless of the type of schooling as well. And also by your token, we can't possibly conclude that successful students in public education are the result of excellent teachers. See, so very subjective.

Why so defensive, btw? Really,what do you care if someone doesn't look at my lesson plan? (How do you know they haven't?

How do you know my students haven't taken a test now and then? Stop assuming.)

So, you believe in imposing on the right of a parent to direct the education of his/her child. I have to wonder what other rights do you believe in imposing on. I mean, when the Duggars are judged for failing at the education of their children, but yet you can't accept that others are succeeding either, that just sounds....intolerant. And to be clear, I didn't "completely disregard" someone's experience. (but yeah, that would be a tad hypocritical of you to accuse me of that, when you presumed to suggest my child's home education experience might not be authentically successful, but perhaps only coincidental. Yeah, definitely hypocritical of you.)

As for anecdotal evidence, is that what really you want? :think: Doubt it,but you'd have to live in a cave to not be aware of the shortcomings with public education. In the meantime, I'll continue to exercise my right to direct the education of my children as I see fit, and while others might not have had a decent home education, I'm confident my children are receiving one and the proof is in their academic and social ability.

Wow, you are taking this extremely personally. No one is trying to take away your rights. I am not against homeschooling, it's like you're having a conversation where you've already anticipated (incorrectly) an entire dialogue with me. Public school quality differs greatly by district, there are not unilateral problems or successes in the system. That's a whole other can of worms. But it's pretty short-sighted and selfish of you (this time I do mean you, personally) to think that there is never any need to have credentialed oversight of a homeschool program because, in your personal opinion, educational neglect is "an outlier." And the fact that you seem to think there is NOTHING you could EVER do better, in any manner, and being completely closed off to any sort of consultation of any kind is ... wow. I bet the Duggars feel the same way.

[mamallama]

One thing to remember is that many of us homeschoolers left the public education system because of issues we had with the bureaucracy or the curricula.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

"Children are not your personal possessions" - YES.

I'm really glad to read stories of homeschooling success here. It really makes me happy. You are not the problem. People like these should be able to homeschool and I 100% support them in doing so.

I am definitely not anti-homeschool, and I'm definitely not pro-public school. But I'm highly anti "unschooling" which is rather trendy in my region. And I'm VERY ANTI homeschooling where the child is denied an outside life. I was friends with a child who came from this kind of family. The crazy mother selected specific groups of people for her children to interact with, and banned them access to people whom she didn't approve of. I think that's wrong. I actually think that's abusive. Children, regardless of your efforts, will one day be adults. They will have to function on their own. Every single day they will encounter people that you as a parent may consider unsavoury. Most positions of employment require a person to interact with all sorts of people. Just freaking equip your kid to deal with this one day. Do not strip them of empathy for the general public by instilling them with a heavy sense of bias. I feel like a lot of homeschooling families completely forget that their kids will be adults one day and will need to be able to behave accordingly. I feel like a lot of parents choose homeschool because they want tight reins on their child. They want full control. They do want their children exposed to certain things or people or situations that they as parents are not involved in. And wow do I want to smack those people. Instill your child with a good sense of judgment and the ability to effectively handle bad situations or people. People also learn a lot of things through experience. Maturity is gained through experience.

So, homeschooling parents here who have prepared their kids well for life, THUMBS UP. I am so glad that your child is able to function outside of your home. I am all about homeschooled kids who go on to have successful careers. I love that. Really, awesome job.

Homeschooling parents who royally screw their kids over - YOU are the problem. I am so glad that your kid has seen every Shakespeare play and can play instruments, that's wonderful. But your kid can't figure out basic multiplication like 8x12 . <---- real life example. That kid also had locks on his bedroom door and bars on his windows and a pot to pee in at night.

The kind of people who homeschool and are clearly problematic are people like the Duggars (clearly). But there are non-religious people who are problematic too. There are many people who homeschool their children who are religious who do just fine. I support them. Public school doesn't work for everyone. It didn't work for me. I found it too easy, boring, the teachers weren't interested, and I could work through the assignments too quickly. It was painful and nauseating to sit in a room for several hours listening to people blab about things that I could figure out myself in ten minutes. And then I was expected to pay full attention and "listen". Despite scoring over 95% on everything. I understand that the listening thing was a display of disrespect, but I was 14-16 and didn't care much. I really truly believe that public schools hold a lot of smart kids back and kids that struggle slip through the cracks. I believe that homeschooling can be a wonderful solution to this problem. But I also believe that homeschooling can be highly abusive and unhealthy for a child.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

Look, guys, this is not the hill I want to die on. I am not a parent and have no vested interest, other than preventing child abuse. I have seen good homeschooling where the kids learned several languages and studied engineering in high school, I have seen negligent homeschooling where an 8 year old was functionally illiterate, learning disorders went unaddressed and friends were very tightly controlled (I mean, I have personally seen families in therapy with both positive and negative outcomes). However, I DO believe there needs to be SOME form of checking in with authorities/mandatory reporters. I will leave the specifics of that to educators. Not politicians. It would be great if they worked alongside parents to provide the best possible home schooling experience, and I think it is possible to do that. I don't have all the answers, but I would hope parents, wanting what's best for their personal child and children in general, would be voluntarily open to this.

Anyways, I know we're not naming names here, and I respect that, so I'm not going to speculate on which child was the subject of the call. But there is a "conspiracy" thread on GOMI where they are naming names. Mods, please remove this if it's inappropriate to post - just thought some FJers who do want to speculate might like to know where it is happening.

[Librul]

I have no idea what the homeschoolers posting on this forum use for teaching material -- whether it is Bible based or highly scientific, well designed or shoddy. I don't know how effective/ineffective you are at teaching or whether your children are academically gifted or challenged. The level of ego seems to be quite healthy, though.

What is clear, however, is that homeschooling as practiced by the Duggars and their like minded fellowshippers falls far short of any kind of quality education. The materials themselves are suspect--narrow and heavily Scripture/bad science based and they contain more questionable "Character Training" than mind training. That, coupled with the reality that the "teachers" are themselves very poorly educated, inarticulate and bored teenage sisters, makes it a monumental fail. No one will convince me that there is adequate education occurring in that house. In fact, I would suspect that in the past year, very little education has taken place.

Children who are bright, absorb information from every single source they can access, including school, parents, books, nature, labels on jars, TV, etc. Those children tend to do well no matter where they find themselves. It is the average and challenged student that suffers incredibly from the type of ATI education offered by the Duggar family. With 19 children, I suspect that not all 19 are high achieving scholars and that some are simply floundering under their system. Even a poor public school will show students there is something beyond their front stoop.

[imokit]

There's another aspect to the homeschooling oversight issue outside of education. That's abuse prevention.

First - I am not saying that people who homeschool abuse their kids. However some do. Just as some people who send their kids to school abuse their kids. Child abuse can happen regardless of education or money or politics.

The difference between an abused kid who goes to school and an abused kid who doesn't is that the school kid is surrounded by other adults. These adults will have some degree of experience in spotting and dealing with child abuse (sadly, you can't work with children without coming across it :cry: ). These kids may be spotted by their teachers or the kids themselves may form strong enough relationships with them to enable them to disclose the abuse. The kids themselves are also exposed to other kids with other family dynamics and thus more likely to have the ability to recognise that their home is not normal.

A homeschooled child depending on their family is less exposed to others who can spot the abuse or people outside the home and outside their families beliefs who they could potentially confide in.

A parent sending their kid to school, knows to try an avoid leaving visible bruises which can be noticed or beating their kid so hard they can't sit down to work. It will be noticed. Yes the weekends and holidays are still free from this restraint, but its something.

One of the issues from Homeschoolers Anonymous is that these kids have no where to turn too.

I don't know the answers to the issue, but increased oversight of homeschoolers, may be beneficial not just to education, but also in child abuse prevention.

I repeat I am not saying that homeschoolers abuse their kids, just that its easier for those who do abuse to hide it and harder for those kids to get help.

[mamallama]

I don't see it as ego I see it as a combination of passion and pride. In my case we started in Catholic school, homeschooled one daughter went back to public school and the other to Catholic then public so I have a range of schools to compare with our curriculum. My younger daughter was one who would have excelled wherever she was. My older daughter struggled and was far behind when we pulled her out. She wouldn't have made it through high school if we hadn't homeschooled. The schools she came from and went back to were excellent schools and the Child Study team agreed that homeschooling was the best they could come up with.

[lookinggoodforjesus]

There's another aspect to the homeschooling oversight issue outside of education. That's abuse prevention.

First - I am not saying that people who homeschool abuse their kids. However some do. Just as some people who send their kids to school abuse their kids. Child abuse can happen regardless of education or money or politics.

The difference between an abused kid who goes to school and an abused kid who doesn't is that the school kid is surrounded by other adults. These adults will have some degree of experience in spotting and dealing with child abuse (sadly, you can't work with children without coming across it :cry: ). These kids may be spotted by their teachers or the kids themselves may form strong enough relationships with them to enable them to disclose the abuse. The kids themselves are also exposed to other kids with other family dynamics and thus more likely to have the ability to recognise that their home is not normal.

A homeschooled child depending on their family is less exposed to others who can spot the abuse or people outside the home and outside their families beliefs who they could potentially confide in.

A parent sending their kid to school, knows to try an avoid leaving visible bruises which can be noticed or beating their kid so hard they can't sit down to work. It will be noticed. Yes the weekends and holidays are still free from this restraint, but its something.

One of the issues from Homeschoolers Anonymous is that these kids have no where to turn too.

I don't know the answers to the issue, but increased oversight of homeschoolers, may be beneficial not just to education, but also in child abuse prevention.

I repeat I am not saying that homeschoolers abuse their kids, just that its easier for those who do abuse to hide it and harder for those kids to get help.

I completely agree with everything you said. I'd like to add though -

A lot of kids who are homeschooled and abused don't realize that it isn't normal. They only see families like their own. They think that abuse from their parents is a regular thing that happens to everyone. Nothing makes them think it's abnormal. Kids who go to school and see a variety of families and lifestyles will be better able to recognize if their own family situation is abusive.

I think that's a large part of Jill and Jessa's behaviour. They seem to think that abuse is normal. Aside from having so many kids and a TV show, they don't seem to acknowledge that their upbringing wasn't normal. And they definitely don't seem to understand that much of it was abusive. Which is a bigger problem in itself, because how do you tell someone that they were abused...?

[mamallama]

There's another aspect to the homeschooling oversight issue outside of education. That's abuse prevention.

First - I am not saying that people who homeschool abuse their kids. However some do. Just as some people who send their kids to school abuse their kids. Child abuse can happen regardless of education or money or politics.

The difference between an abused kid who goes to school and an abused kid who doesn't is that the school kid is surrounded by other adults. These adults will have some degree of experience in spotting and dealing with child abuse (sadly, you can't work with children without coming across it :cry: ). These kids may be spotted by their teachers or the kids themselves may form strong enough relationships with them to enable them to disclose the abuse. The kids themselves are also exposed to other kids with other family dynamics and thus more likely to have the ability to recognise that their home is not normal.

A homeschooled child depending on their family is less exposed to others who can spot the abuse or people outside the home and outside their families beliefs who they could potentially confide in.

A parent sending their kid to school, knows to try an avoid leaving visible bruises which can be noticed or beating their kid so hard they can't sit down to work. It will be noticed. Yes the weekends and holidays are still free from this restraint, but its something.

One of the issues from Homeschoolers Anonymous is that these kids have no where to turn too.

I don't know the answers to the issue, but increased oversight of homeschoolers, may be beneficial not just to education, but also in child abuse prevention.

I repeat I am not saying that homeschoolers abuse their kids, just that its easier for those who do abuse to hide it and harder for those kids to get help.

So what would be your solution to that problem. The most vulnerable, children under 5, also have no where to turn yet I don't see legislation to require parents of very young children to have oversight. I don't think it would fly for the same reasons that homeschoolers see demands for oversight for all to try to address the bad experiences of some.

Also the authorities did become aware of how the Duggars discipline, which I think is abuse, and had no problem with it since they didn't leave bruises.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

I completely agree with everything you said. I'd like to add though -

A lot of kids who are homeschooled and abused don't realize that it isn't normal. They only see families like their own. They think that abuse from their parents is a regular thing that happens to everyone. Nothing makes them think it's abnormal. Kids who go to school and see a variety of families and lifestyles will be better able to recognize if their own family situation is abusive.

I think that's a large part of Jill and Jessa's behaviour. They seem to think that abuse is normal. Aside from having so many kids and a TV show, they don't seem to acknowledge that their upbringing wasn't normal. And they definitely don't seem to understand that much of it was abusive. Which is a bigger problem in itself, because how do you tell someone that they were abused...?

Exactly!! When Jim Bob casually drops a number like "2/3rds of families have incest," he probably believes it. His children and wife CERTAINLY believe it. Jill and Jessa have NO basis of comparison.

Mama LLama, younger children generally go to wellness check-ups with doctors and such, more often than generally healthy older kids. Medical staff are mandatory reporters. In any case, why is it so terrible to make sure kids are on the radar? Just because the system isn't perfect, it doesn't mean it has no value.

You know what, don't answer that. I typed it, but I really want to get back to snarking on the Duggars instead of yet another tiresome debate on homeschool where everyone gets super defensive ....

[Palimpsest]

So what would be your solution to that problem. The most vulnerable, children under 5, also have no where to turn yet I don't see legislation to require parents of very young children to have oversight. I don't think it would fly for the same reasons that homeschoolers see demands for oversight for all to try to address the bad experiences of some.

Also the authorities did become aware of how the Duggars discipline, which I think is abuse, and had no problem with it since they didn't leave bruises.

Oh, boy. That old argument: as there is no legislated oversight of very young children then why should there be oversight of homeschooled children?

Someone else has already pointed out that young children tend to have more medical oversight.

Also, to make sure children get a decent education. Educational neglect is also a form of abuse in the US and, as I said earlier, education is a basic human right. A useful side effect would be a well check on all the children. Identifying the abuse of an older child also helps to identify and prevent abuse in younger children in the family.

As far as the Duggar methods of discipline not being considered abuse by the authorities because it didn't leave bruises? If you consider Duggar methods abusive then perhaps you would care to work with legislators to ban corporal punishment for children in your state. Unfortunately in the United States spanking your child is still quite acceptable, unless you leave bruises or wounds, break bones, or permanently maim or kill your child.

[nelliebelle1197]

I can appreciate your position as one who was previously homeschooled myself, but you can't really expect that everyone would share your personal perspective and/or validate it, and that they are therefore "ignoring" your experiences because they don't. It's YOUR view, subjective, based on your own experiences, your specific educator-parent(s), your own abilities and limitations, and naturally your opinions, too. I have opinions as well.I get it that homeschooling can be and sometimes IS handled badly. But whether you've had a good or bad homeschool experience, it doesn't change the blatently obvious facts; the vast majority of adults in this country were public school educated, and there are MANY who have graduated with seriously poor educations. Is this not a fact? It's constantly covered in the media, and in government. You seem to not be able to separate your feelings and experiences from actual facts, -the fact that most abuse DOES occur directly under the noses and eyes of public school educators, the fact that many homeschool students ARE doing very well. It isn't an either/or issue. Again, should we look at Columbine (for example's sake) and thus suspect ALL public school parents and their home environments? Should we???

Is it fair to project onto them based on what failed in that circumstance?

I'm sincerely sorry you had a bad homeschool experience, but that doesn't mean all homeschool homes should pay for your lack of education, protection, etc. Poor education results and unsafe homes are sadly part of real life, not limited to homeschool, and not statistically proven to be any more prevalent in a homeschool environment than in a non homeschool environment.

If you feel offended that so many homeschoolers "ignore" your negative comments about your homeschooling experiences, I'm sure you're aware that they are YOUR experiences. They are valid to you, yes. But the positive experiences are likewise valid to those who have had positive experiences. The two perspectives coexist, and it is not on all homeschoolers to pay for what went wrong in your home, any more than it is on public school parents to pay for what went wrong in failed public schools and in failed public school homes.

The microscope of oversight hangs over public education day after day, year after year, and it clearly does not serve to prevent the shortcomings you seem to think it would serve to prevent if it hovered over home schools. You are, of course, entitled to believe that more regulation would solve the problems you experienced. Looking at the solutions and supposedprotections that often fail children in public schools, though, I'd say it's unlikely to accomplish as much as we might like to believe.

But public school is not used to educationally, emotionally and physically abuse children. Homesechooling without regulation is. Oversight and regulation is not a way of homeschoolers "pay". For someone who is asking for an open mind, yours is awfully closed on this.

[mamallama]

I suspect young children who are abused are probably not brought to the doctor. The point is that the rules you want to impose on homeschoolers would not be acceptable if they were imposed on the general public. You shouldn't be surprised that homeschooling parents who don't abuse their children and who have children who are excelling don't find them acceptable. Frankly it would make more sense to me to demand to check out kids who attend the "spare the rod spoil the child churches" but we can't single out people by religion. There are also private (and I think some public schools) that practice corporal punishment.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

I suspect young children who are abused are probably not brought to the doctor. The point is that the rules you want to impose on homeschoolers would not be acceptable if they were imposed on the general public. You shouldn't be surprised that homeschooling parents who don't abuse their children and who have children who are excelling don't find them acceptable. Frankly it would make more sense to me to demand to check out kids who attend the "spare the rod spoil the child churches" but we can't single out people by religion. There are also private (and I think some public schools) that practice corporal punishment.

Corporal punishment in schools is illegal now.

And how, exactly, would anyone know that a homeschooled child is excelling and not being abused? Should the authorities/society just take a parent's word for it? Rules are, in fact, imposed on the general public - by mandatory reporters in schools, and the medical field. A homeschooled child does not have access to those mandatory reporters (certainly in school, perhaps in the medical field), ergo they check in with someone every 6 months or so instead of for 5 days a week, 9/10 months out of the year. No one is trying to take away the right to homeschool. But what is so hard about having some form of accountability? It does the homeschooling community no favors to be secretive.

[JenniferJuniper]

Corporal punishment in schools is illegal now.

Alabama, Arizona, Arkansas, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Kansas, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, North Carolina, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Tennessee, Texas and Wyoming all still allow corporal punishment in public schools.

[nelliebelle1197]

I suspect young children who are abused are probably not brought to the doctor. The point is that the rules you want to impose on homeschoolers would not be acceptable if they were imposed on the general public. You shouldn't be surprised that homeschooling parents who don't abuse their children and who have children who are excelling don't find them acceptable. Frankly it would make more sense to me to demand to check out kids who attend the "spare the rod spoil the child churches" but we can't single out people by religion. There are also private (and I think some public schools) that practice corporal punishment.

That makes no sense. Of course the same rules apply- people are talking about oversight and accountability. When I send my son to school, we all have to follow rules- he has to do his homework, attend classes, take tests - parents can get in trouble for kids not attending school, charged with educational neglect in many areas, and kids can fail. If anything, homeschoolers who want zero accountability are the ones who are asking for special treatment.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

Hmm, I stand corrected on the corporal punishment in schools. I'm in CA and it's been abolished here since the '80's, but I should know better than to assume that every state has the same rules. In any case, the schools that allow it require parental consent, so I'd assume those are the same kids who receive spankings at home (and would therefore also receive corporal punishment as homeschoolers).

[JenniferJuniper]

Hmm, I stand corrected on the corporal punishment in schools. I'm in CA and it's been abolished here since the '80's, but I should know better than to assume that every state has the same rules. In any case, the schools that allow it require parental consent, so I'd assume those are the same kids who receive spankings at home (and would therefore also receive corporal punishment as homeschoolers).

My cousin lives in Florida and at least as of a couple of years ago, paddlings could be administered without parental consent.

[NoneandDoneinCali]

According to what I just read, parental consent is needed, so I don't know about that....

I need to stop commenting lol. I really want to get back to talking about the Duggars :lol: I feel like we've had this debate on FJ about 1,000 times, and everyone will just have to agree to disagree.