Josh Duggar, Admitted Child Molester - Part 8

[Darwinesque]

I think we're missing chunks of information here so we aren't looking at a complete picture.

The letter/memo in the book story is weird. The story about the woman who contacted Oprah - but not the authorities or apparently even TLC is weird.

But the strangest thing for me is Jim Bob going to the state trooper who really, really enjoyed kiddie porn (56 years in prison!) for the "scared straight" lecture. Were he and Jim Bob such good friends that Jim Bob trusted him not to contact the local authorities? As mandatory reporters go, I would imagine cops are at the top of the list. Jim Bob apparently did not want this actually investigated, or he'd have made a report with the local cops, not a state trooper pal. What did he know about this guy? How could he have been so sure the guy wouldn't turn Josh in?

So many odd things about this whole story.

I completely agree. Every time I read anything to do with Jim bob and the Policeman, I think "what are the odds?". It's all so seedy and seems calculated rather than coincidental. Shame on them both, and Michelle, and the Church. Complete failure on behalf of those poor victims.

[GunnBroker]

I'm still trying to figure out how you manage to write a letter/take notes regarding the molestation of 5 young girls by a 14-year old (4 of whom were his sisters) and then just...leave it randomly in a book and forget about it. You'd think that would be something important that you'd keep track of, unless this is so common that it's just a regular occurrence for these folks. How bizarre.

And, imagine being the person who borrowed the book and opening it up and finding that letter inside. There's a WTF moment for ya.

I dunno. It's entirely possible someone was pouring out their head to paper, not sure what to do, someone else walks in so they slip it in the book on thier lap so as not to get caught or feel the need to explain and then... Over time and/or circumstance, forgot all about it.

I've certainly found notes, poems, miscellaneous nothings in books or pockets before and didn't think a thing of it.

*shrug*

Definitely "WTF moment" for the finder.

[1st wiccan fundie]

David waller maybe saying nothing as Joshies job is now vacant! :shifty-kitty:

Pure speculation of course :D

Ha! Great point!!! Plus they both admit to having a highly competitive relationship with each other. Totally could be something along these lines, to this.

On a side note - I could always tell that deep down they don't really like each other. Now I wonder why;maybe it's not just a- not clicking with a person situation?

[YoshiCat]

I dunno. It's entirely possible someone was pouring out their head to paper, not sure what to do, someone else walks in so they slip it in the book on thier lap so as not to get caught or feel the need to explain and then... Over time and/or circumstance, forgot all about it.

I've certainly found notes, poems, miscellaneous nothings in books or pockets before and didn't think a thing of it.

*shrug*

Definitely "WTF moment" for the finder.

That's what I keep thinking. Who writes a letter about sexual molestation of someone they know and then forgets about it? This isn't just some random shopping list or friendly letter. It would be something the writer would keep track of.

Who would write a letter with at least some details of the molestation?

One of the Duggar victims could have written it and deliberately put it in a book that she knew was about to leave the house.

The fifth victim could have written it. Maybe someone walked in whole she was writing it and she hastily stuck it in the book to hide it and then couldn't get back to it. We don't know if the fifth victim knew that there were other victims of if she thought she was the only one. Maybe she wrote it to one of the Duggar victims, intending to tell her to get the letter from the book later.

A family friend? I can see someone who intended to report it wanting to write everything down while it was still fresh in their mind. But wouldn't that person still report it even after losing track of the letter?

Would you write a letter with that information in it while you were in someone else's home? And if you did, would you really stash it in a book and forget about it? Even if it was a "letter to God"/Journaling exercise that you weren't planning to show to anyone?

It just seems to me that anyone who wrote down something like that wouldn't lose track of it. It seems to me that it was written and deliberately placed in a book that the person knew would be leaving the house. Maybe it was someone who would never have the privacy to make a reporting call without being overhead. Maybe it was someone who didn't know you can report anonymously or worried that others would find out their identity.

I just can't imagine amy one writing about something line that and then forgetting about it.

[skulduggery]

When this story first broke, I felt bad for Josh because he was a minor when this happened and it seemed likely that he had acted out because of trauma he may have experienced himself.

When Josh apologized, I wanted to believe he did something one time that was profoundly stupid and harmful; and that he had truly made an effort to make restitution to whoever he had hurt. Then I found out it wasn't one time, it was at least five times with five different victims which is less like opportunity and more like predatory behavior. Then I found out he was director of the Family Research Council and he tried to lobby against the rights of LGBTQA. He made an incest joke on the show. He sued DHS - for what and why, we'll never know. His apology appeared to revolve around himself and salvaging his own image. The In Touch Weekly analysis was pretty spot on, IMO. There was no indication from any statement of the Duggars that he sought help as an adult, which would be the right and responsible thing to do.

He may not have had a choice as a minor, but he had a choice as an adult. He's been signing contracts with TLC for how many years now? Remember if they are paying him that is legally his money and he had the resources to seek therapy. If he had, I'm sure he would have added that to his official statement. These folks aren't stupid when it comes to PR. That's pretty much their entire skill-set to make money.

I'm an optimist, I want to believe that everyone can be helped, but I also need a reason to believe that they are truly motivated to become better people. When all things add up, I don't see Josh as one of them (or his parents); and after his political shenanigans I can no longer in good conscience feel sorry for him.

Many people who do things wrong are truly remorseful and seek help, but not positions of power. The Duggars and the media tried to give me a turd and tell me it's chocolate. They even tried to tell me that prayer can solve everything, but I know from experience that it can't. Sometimes, it even makes things worse. That's part of the reason I don't believe anything for the sake of believing in it. Give me a reason to or don't bother trying to convince me in the first place.

Anyway, that's where I stand on Josh.

[Snarkle Motion]

In regard to the cop friend JB first reported to - is it possible he picked him because he knew of his past? I think I read in one article that he had been arrested or disciplined for child pornography and was only sent to prison after his second offense? Would that have been public? Would it have been possible that the police officer had confessed his sins in a church setting? Perhaps JB thought Josh was struggling with similar issues and this was why he chose him? Just a thought.

[SassyPants]

When this story first broke, I felt bad for Josh because he was a minor when this happened and it seemed likely that he had acted out because of trauma he may have experienced himself.

When Josh apologized, I wanted to believe he did something one time that was profoundly stupid and harmful; and that he had truly made an effort to make restitution to whoever he had hurt. Then I found out it wasn't one time, it was at least five times with five different victims which is less like opportunity and more like predatory behavior. Then I found out he was director of the Family Research Council and he tried to lobby against the rights of LGBTQA. He made an incest joke on the show. He sued DHS - for what and why, we'll never know. His apology appeared to revolve around himself and salvaging his own image. The In Touch Weekly analysis was pretty spot on, IMO. There was no indication from any statement of the Duggars that he sought help as an adult, which would be the right and responsible thing to do.

He may not have had a choice as a minor, but he had a choice as an adult. He's been signing contracts with TLC for how many years now? Remember if they are paying him that is legally his money and he had the resources to seek therapy. If he had, I'm sure he would have added that to his official statement. These folks aren't stupid when it comes to PR. That's pretty much their entire skill-set to make money.

I'm an optimist, I want to believe that everyone can be helped, but I also need a reason to believe that they are truly motivated to become better people. When all things add up, I don't see Josh as one of them (or his parents); and after his political shenanigans I can no longer in good conscience feel sorry for him.

Many people who do things wrong are truly remorseful and seek help, but not positions of power. The Duggars and the media tried to give me a turd and tell me it's chocolate. They even tried to tell me that prayer can solve everything, but I know from experience that it can't. Sometimes, it even makes things worse. That's part of the reason I don't believe anything for the sake of believing in it. Give me a reason to or don't bother trying to convince me in the first place.

Anyway, that's where I stand on Josh.

IMO, in Josh's mind, Josh is still that 12 yo boy who is beholden to his daddy. Josh seeking help may have gotten out and affected daddy's cash cow, 19 kids and counting. I think the reason Josh might think this way is because JB still exerts pressure.

I think JB controls and shames all his kids. By bringing up long past incidents, he even shames Michelle.

[Hera]

In regard to the cop friend JB first reported to - is it possible he picked him because he knew of his past? I think I read in one article that he had been arrested or disciplined for child pornography and was only sent to prison after his second offense? Would that have been public? Would it have been possible that the police officer had confessed his sins in a church setting? Perhaps JB thought Josh was struggling with similar issues and this was why he chose him? Just a thought.

I can see this and I agree that it's quite the coincidence that the very cop that JB brought Josh to was one who also "struggled" with "temptations." (Gag!)

But if this is the case, then I just have to wonder what the hell is wrong with these people for not thinking child sexual abuse is a big deal? Even in their "apologies," it's clear that the JB, Michelle and Josh don't understand that most of the world is horrified and disgusted by this. It's not a dumb youthful mistake that you can just "sorry, my bad" your way out of. Josh preyed upon his younger sisters for at least year and his parents knew about it. Frankly, I have to wonder if the 5th victim had not been a non-family member, anything would have ever been done about it. And while I absolutely hope that the Duggar girls made their peace with this years ago, my heart breaks for them as little girls trying to make sure they always knew where Josh was and being terrified of being alone with him and knowing that their parents weren't going to help them out, either. A year. They knew it was going on for a year. I can't get past that, either.

[YoshiCat]

fakejoshduggar.wordpress.com/2015/05/28/a-closer-look-at-the-timeline-of-events/

According to this, Gothard acquired a building in Little Rock in 2000 that he began refurbishing for use as the Little Rock Training Centre, for ' "court-referred youth offenders in the organization's Bible-based rehabilitation program" '. Add to that that Michelle said they sent him to do construction with someone they knew in Little Rock, and it seems likely their acquaintance was Gothard and the construction was refurbishing this building.

There's this, quoting from an In Touch story:

"Police referred the matter to the Families in Need of Services agency, which has jurisdiction over minors. The Department of Human Services (DHS) was then brought into the case, In Touch has learned. Nine months after those agencies entered the Duggar molestation case, Josh Duggar sued the Arkansas Department of Human Services. A trial was held on August 6, 2007.

The results of the investigation into the Duggars and Josh’s trial are sealed. But a source familiar with the Duggar investigation told In Touch it was likely that Josh “appealed the DHS decision or finding from their investigation.†The source notes that DHS had the authority to apply “restrictions or stipulations about him being at home with the victims."

So could this suit also be the Duggars appealing a requirement for Josh to receive secular counseling and substitute the Gothard version instead? Would the courts have allowed that?

In the police report, it states that Jim Bob didn't send Josh to a real rehab place because he didn't want him exposed to other offenders and "other things" that they didn't agree with. I translated this as "no way would Jim Bob let Josh interact freely and unmonitored with people outside of the cult."

Do any of our social workers have an opinion on this?

[skulduggery]

IMO, in Josh's mind, Josh is still that 12 yo boy who is beholden to his daddy. Josh seeking help may have gotten out and affected daddy's cash cow, 19 kids and counting. I think the reason Josh might think this way is because JB still exerts pressure.

I think JB controls and shames all his kids. By bringing up long past incidents, he even shames Michelle.

That's certainly a possibility. IMO If someone feels truly powerless, they wouldn't feel emboldened to tell someone else how to live their own life, though. He was executive director of FRC and lobbied against the rights of others. I'm no psyche major, but that doesn't give me the impression that he's a wilting flower in the shadow of his father. It tells me that he's still seeking out power over other people and he'd rather have that than therapy. Plus in his belief structure, grown men with families of their own are their own authority unto themselves, their wives, and their children. Aside from the sky god, he is his own patriarch.

[violynn]

Grandpa Ruark is an interesting thought....however, JB in the police report said it was a "family friend"....

I no longer believe I can believe a datgum thing coming out of JB's mouth. Maybe it was true about the "family" part and he didn't want to admit family had been the catalyst for finally busting this secret wide open.

Side note OT: would someone PLEASE explain how I can use the smileys? I've looked ALL over the forums and can't find instructions. Thank you!

[skulduggery]

Side note OT: would someone PLEASE explain how I can use the smileys? I've looked ALL over the forums and can't find instructions. Thank you!

You just click on them, and the code pops up like this:

:dance:

[YoshiCat]

In regard to the cop friend JB first reported to - is it possible he picked him because he knew of his past? I think I read in one article that he had been arrested or disciplined for child pornography and was only sent to prison after his second offense? Would that have been public? Would it have been possible that the police officer had confessed his sins in a church setting? Perhaps JB thought Josh was struggling with similar issues and this was why he chose him? Just a thought.

I think Jim Bob had to know that this cop wouldn't report Josh, even though he's a managed reporter. Maybe it was because JB knew about the cop's past and would understand not wanting a report.

But I can definitely see Jim Bob and the cop agreeing it didn't need to be reported because God was handling it and he's a much higher authority. Jim Bob would definitely have God tell him that the authorities didn't need to be involved because he would fix Josh.

And the victims wold be fine because they forgave Josh and that magically fixes everything for them.

[SassyPants]

That's certainly a possibility. IMO If someone feels truly powerless, they wouldn't feel emboldened to tell someone else how to live their own life, though. He was executive director of FRC and lobbied against the rights of others. I'm no psyche major, but that doesn't give me the impression that he's a wilting flower in the shadow of his father. It tells me that he's still seeking out power over other people and he'd rather have that than therapy. Plus in his belief structure, grown men with families of their own are their own authority unto themselves, their wives, and their children. Aside from the sky god, he is his own patriarch.

But see in that regard, he is merely the voice for his father's words. Now if Josh was out there spewing rhetoric, beliefs, feelings that were anti- his upbringing and his father, I could see your point.

Those words were just mirroring JBs thoughts on this topic at hand, and probably more automatic and rote than anything.

Of course everything he does is deplorable, he learned from the best of the worst.

[skulduggery]

I think Jim Bob had to know that this cop wouldn't report Josh, even though he's a managed reporter. Maybe it was because JB knew about the cop's past and would understand not wanting a report.

I'm inclined to believe this as well as them buying into the whole "higher authority" stuff (pray the molesting away).

Could Boob have sincerely *wide eyed* not know about the cop's taste for kiddie porn? Sure. But that would be the most convenient and craziest coincidences I've ever seen.

[JenniferJuniper]

In regard to the cop friend JB first reported to - is it possible he picked him because he knew of his past? I think I read in one article that he had been arrested or disciplined for child pornography and was only sent to prison after his second offense? Would that have been public? Would it have been possible that the police officer had confessed his sins in a church setting? Perhaps JB thought Josh was struggling with similar issues and this was why he chose him? Just a thought.

As I understand the time line, the trooper talked to Josh in 2003. Sometime in 2004 he retired and took a job as a court bailiff. He was not charged with possession of child porn until 2005. His long sentence came after he offended again, circa 2010.

So he had not been charged with any crime and was still a state trooper when Jim Bob - who knew him from his days as a patrolman in Fayetteville - approached him to talk to Josh.

So if Jim Bob knew about this guy's sick fetish and used it as leverage in some way to prevent him from reporting as one would certainly expect a state trooper to do, he obtained that knowledge through some other means.

Even if Jim Bob found this guy a religious kindred spirit, I do not understand why he would be so confident the cop would break the law for him.

I find this all very disturbing.

[violynn]

You just click on them, and the code pops up like this:

:dance:

Thanks, skulduggery :worship:

I'd been right clicking the little buggers and that wasn't working at all! :mrgreen:

[2manyKidzzz]

I no longer believe I can believe a datgum thing coming out of JB's mouth. Maybe it was true about the "family" part and he didn't want to admit family had been the catalyst for finally busting this secret wide open.

Side note OT: would someone PLEASE explain how I can use the smileys? I've looked ALL over the forums and can't find instructions. Thank you!

When you touch...this is on an ipad, or I guess click on a destop on the smiley, it should show up where your cursor is in the message. :D 8-)

[YoshiCat]

But see in that regard, he is merely the voice for his father's words. Now if Josh was out there spewing rhetoric, beliefs, feelings that were anti- his upbringing and his father, I could see your point.

Those words were just mirroring JBs thoughts on this topic at hand, and probably more automatic and rote than anything.

Of course everything he does is deplorable, he learned from the best of the worst.

Josh was pretty well locked in before he was allowed to leave the area. He already had children to support when he move to D.C., correct?

He had a cushy, well-paying job for which he had no qualifications other than being a Duggar. His livelihood depended on Jim Bob one way or the other; either he stuck to the script in D.C. or he's in Arkansas with a business his dad set up for him.

I wonder if he's questioning anything now. He would have been exposed to a lot more people and ideas in D.C., even with the job he had. He did everything he was supposed to do---asked forgiveness and went to Gothard camp. So everything was fixed and perfect. Now his molestation of his sisters is national news, he lost his job, he's humiliated and it's mommy and daddy who are going out to do damage control.

What happened to God taking care of them? It must have seemed like God took care of it before. They became wealthy and famous and Josh got a job being the young face of "family values." They were being rewarded for being good Christians and loving God. Until now.

[violynn]

That's certainly a possibility. IMO If someone feels truly powerless, they wouldn't feel emboldened to tell someone else how to live their own life, though. He was executive director of FRC and lobbied against the rights of others. I'm no psyche major, but that doesn't give me the impression that he's a wilting flower in the shadow of his father. It tells me that he's still seeking out power over other people and he'd rather have that than therapy. Plus in his belief structure, grown men with families of their own are their own authority unto themselves, their wives, and their children. Aside from the sky god, he is his own patriarch.

In my personal experience, feeling powerless in a number of relationships with people in authority made me emboldened in other areas with other people: ie my mother and my church shamed and humiliated me constantly yet I acted out at school and felt no fear in telling off some adult who tried to set me straight. Or bullies who are so often cowards.

Perhaps Josh felt better about himself because he attacked others for their lifestyles, choices, decisions. He'd be pleasing his parents while gaining power over people he is vilifying. Especially since Josh was working to take rights or keep rights away from others. Of course I could be wrong too. Josh is way too messed up a person for armchair analysts to do much with, maybe.

[Arete]

No, it is not a coincidence. I know some of us like to think JB is stupid, or some dumb yokel, but he is not. He is an extremely cunning, crafty man with no regard for anything other than money, power, and Michelle-in that order. Any action he took was in order to protect the viability of his political career. It was never about safeguarding or treating any of his children. Even the editing can't hide he finds most of his sons distasteful, and he has always taunted all of his kids. He knew that trooper would not report, and even worse he sent his son who was sexually acting out to be counseled by a pedophile.

Tune in to watch JB try to save his income stream this Wednesday.

[PlaidFrumper]

Random thoughts on a couple of things being discussed

the person who found the letter and their likely wtf moment...interesting that they believed everything they read. believed it enough to contact oprah using, apparently, their real name. theres more to that story

the mysterious 2007 lawsuit from josh. likely to be, as has been speculated, that this was to seal/expunge or destroy the record or to fight some sort of requirement to leave the house or register as an offender. i suspect that tlc knew, especially after the oprah incident. maybe whatever was done with that lawsuit was required by tlc to get things clear to proceed with the show?

i doubt boob knew the guy he took josh to for the stern talking to had the habit he did. i do think the guy probably read as a little sleazy, though. kind of like boob. someone he could get to do what he wanted and scare the heck out of josh but who would wink at boob and not report it. didnt his job involve some sort of oversight related to used cars? he had probably winked and overlooked things for boob before.

sorry for the lack of capitalization and apostrophes, my keyboard is on its last legs. :?

[skulduggery]

But see in that regard, he is merely the voice for his father's words. Now if Josh was out there spewing rhetoric, beliefs, feelings that were anti- his upbringing and his father, I could see your point.

Those words were just mirroring JBs thoughts on this topic at hand, and probably more automatic and rote than anything.

Of course everything he does is deplorable, he learned from the best of the worst.

Yes he is a product of his upbringing and a reflection of everything wrong with BoobChelle. However, I would need demonstrable proof that he's incapable of looking out for his own interests. If he's capable of signing contracts with TLC and holding down a job as executive director, then he is also capable of getting therapy if he really wanted it. If Josh wants something, Josh is going to get it. Just like he made a joke about incest despite his repressive fundy upbringing. I have no reason to believe he's merely running on autopilot. However, I have a lot of reason to believe he seeks out power over others to the exclusion of therapy.

[Flyinthesoup]

Concernedmom wrote her account in April 2005 so she couldn't have been talking about 2006. The "sin in the camp" must have happened during Jim Holt's Senate run in 2004.

I don't know if this helps, but this is the timeline I've worked in my head:

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=26189&p=956564#p956564

You are absolutely right, thank you for pointing that out. I should have double checked the date of posting on that one....I just assumed the same time line as the one above by, Alice. OK, so concernedmom has her facts scattered in her writing.

[SassyPants]

No, it is not a coincidence. I know some of us like to think JB is stupid, or some dumb yokel, but he is not. He is an extremely cunning, crafty man with no regard for anything other than money, power, and Michelle-in that order. Any action he took was in order to protect the viability of his political career. It was never about safeguarding or treating any of his children. Even the editing can't hide he finds most of his sons distasteful, and he has always taunted all of his kids. He knew that trooper would not report, and even worse he sent his son who was sexually acting out to be counseled by a pedophile.

Tune in to watch JB try to save his income stream this Wednesday.

Could not agree more. Wish I could like this comment 1000Xs