Speculation about Ben and Audri

[Deleted12]

They were married on September 21st, so unless they're secretly using birth control or unless she's pregnant and they're waiting to announce anything, she's got about 21 days before they're officially infertile.

Thoughts? Feelings? Speculation?

[ridethekick]

For some reason, I could have sworn she is pregnant. Whoops.

[darkplumaged]

No specific thoughts about them, but it's interesting that there seems to be a (small but possibly growing) cadre of young fundie wives who have had trouble becoming (staying?) pregnant. And here I thought only feminist libruls who subvert God !!11!!11!!!! by using eeeevil birth control struggle to conceive.

[Karsaroni]

It's interesting that a lot of the "older" fundie brides (i.e. Rebecca Loomis, the Bradrick sisters that both recently got hitched and are well into their 30's) are the ones that seem to be having the most trouble. I keep thinking of the phrase "if you don't use it, you lose it!". Makes you wonder what being celibate for 30 years or more does to your reproductive system. I know Ben & Audri are the exception to the rule (as they are young) but I'm just writing out loud.

In either regard, I for one am not anxious for an innocent baby to be born into the Botkin madness.

[demgirl]

In either regard, I for one am not anxious for an innocent baby to be born into the Botkin madness.

Basically my view.

[clarinetpower]

Quick side topic--the Bradrick that married a Cohen--is he Jewish? That's a major Jewish name. Covenant marriage?

[Koala]

Basically my view.

exactly. No news=good news.

[DebbuSue]

Here's a thought, since most of these people are unvacinated, not getting their MMR Measles, Mumps, Rubella imunizations, there could be a whole generation of sterile young men out there shooting blanks.

Male sterility is a side effect of mumps, and you know they aren't visiting infertility doctors, and will blame the wife if they don't conceive. It was one of the major causes of infertility before routine child imunizations.

[silvia]

I'm no Botkin expert or anything, but is it possible Audri and Ben might be using a non-invasive method of birth control like natural family planning so that they're still "open to life," but somewhat able to control the timing of children? I know Geoff Botkin has spoken out against the birth control pill, but I haven't seen anything on Botkin views about NFP, which some otherwise hard-core fundamentalist types have been known to use.

[fundiefan]

Basically my view.

Yup. That. Conception is unpredictable. Teens get pregnant without expecting it, people who try don't succeed. It's biological, not an act of god. It happens or it doesn't. I can imagine that for fundies it is really hard to reach your first wedding anniversary without pregnancy but I would never assume infertility because of it.

They have to do it right in the first place. The women are raised to reproduce. It is their duty and their worth and their value. That's a lot of freaking pressure. I can't imagine Ben throwing control out the window and just going with it much less his wife, or any fundie woman, physically or emotionally. Many infertile couples 'end up' pregnant after they...give up; stop stressing, worrying, thinking, planning, trying. The mind's affects on the body are real. Can you imagine the pressure of fundie women? Get pregnant or have no worth. Having sex with their husband with the dominant thought being making a baby and nothing more. Never mind enjoyment, going with the flow, acting on impulse.

I am usually pretty content though to know that a new fundie isn't on the way. I don't have pet fundies and don't look for the babies. The ones who don't have the babies are actually closer to the idea of 'favorite' for me. No new humans to be turned into robots.

[bionicmlle]

It's a by-product the ever-shallowing fundie gene pool....

[bananacat]

I'm not referring to this case specifically, but I wonder if in some fundie couples, they actually haven't managed to have sex for a long time. I know that when I was 17, it took a couple of tries with my boyfriend before we technically managed to have PIV sex, and we were both totally open to it. I imagine having a life of sex shaming and doing it in the dark would just make it that much harder. I'm sure they have all the nerves and awkwardness of teenagers on prom night, but compounded by their sheltered childhoods. I bet at least some of those fundie boys are having sex with their bride's thigh and not even realizing it, or they could have premature ejaculation or stress-related impotence.

I also know a woman who was a virgin when she got married and she was so terrified that she wanted to ease into it with her husband (which is reasonable, IMO). She wasn't exactly fundie but was sort of forced into marriage and not ready for it. She had kissed her boyfriend before marriage but not much else. For fundies who never even kiss or hold hands, I suspect that a large fraction of them don't get to full-on sex right away. It's just too fast for most people to move.

So I wouldn't be surprised if there are some fundie couples out there who don't actually have sex until well into their first year.

[skankbiscuit]

I'm not referring to this case specifically, but I wonder if in some fundie couples, they actually haven't managed to have sex for a long time. I know that when I was 17, it took a couple of tries with my boyfriend before we technically managed to have PIV sex, and we were both totally open to it. I imagine having a life of sex shaming and doing it in the dark would just make it that much harder. I'm sure they have all the nerves and awkwardness of teenagers on prom night, but compounded by their sheltered childhoods. I bet at least some of those fundie boys are having sex with their bride's thigh and not even realizing it, or they could have premature ejaculation or stress-related impotence.

I also know a woman who was a virgin when she got married and she was so terrified that she wanted to ease into it with her husband (which is reasonable, IMO). She wasn't exactly fundie but was sort of forced into marriage and not ready for it. She had kissed her boyfriend before marriage but not much else. For fundies who never even kiss or hold hands, I suspect that a large fraction of them don't get to full-on sex right away. It's just too fast for most people to move.

So I wouldn't be surprised if there are some fundie couples out there who don't actually have sex until well into their first year.

This.

[sugaree]

That's actually a terribly romantic idea. A period of real courtship for a couple who didn't get to actually court, and by court, I mean, flirt and play and have fun and work your way up to hours-long make-out sessions. I mean, the poor Botkins and their brides. Spending all that pre-marriage time earnestly discussing theology and taking notes.

I completely love the idea of post-wedding dating leading up to the big consummation. That's awesome.

[fundiefan]

I definitely agree even though I went off in a different direction because of my half-assed comment reading. Hell, I've been alone for three years. I imagine by the time my life and mind work themselves out enough to even consider sex again it's going to be a very drawn out process and far more emotional than physical. I can't even wrap my head around the concept of being a newlywed with more pressure and higher expectations than experience.

[fundifugee]

It's interesting that a lot of the "older" fundie brides (i.e. Rebecca Loomis, the Bradrick sisters that both recently got hitched and are well into their 30's) are the ones that seem to be having the most trouble. I keep thinking of the phrase "if you don't use it, you lose it!". Makes you wonder what being celibate for 30 years or more does to your reproductive system. I know Ben & Audri are the exception to the rule (as they are young) but I'm just writing out loud.

In either regard, I for one am not anxious for an innocent baby to be born into the Botkin madness.

Well, statistically, by the age of 30, women are shooting blanks half of the months they cycle.

Also, a luridly interesting medical story -- in med school the GYN who taught us the sexuality component of gynecology mentioned that his most unusual case was a fundy couple where the man had drunk the 'sex is evil' kool aid for so long that he couldn't do the deed. Couldn't masturbate, couldn't have sex. No biological reason found. He was not open to any serious counselling because he couldn't talk about sex and didn't want to. In the end, he was happier to have a needle poked into his balls to harvest some sperm for artificial insemination of his wife, than to actually have sex. Could have been gay, I suppose, but he would not even masturbate to produce the sperm for the artificial insemination.

[Kitchen Princess]

Here's a thought, since most of these people are unvacinated, not getting their MMR Measles, Mumps, Rubella imunizations, there could be a whole generation of sterile young men out there shooting blanks.

Male sterility is a side effect of mumps, and you know they aren't visiting infertility doctors, and will blame the wife if they don't conceive. It was one of the major causes of infertility before routine child imunizations.

I grew up before mumps vaccines and had the mumps and both of my brothers did. I doubt that is a major factor in the lack of children in these families. Just because the fundies may have been unvaxed, doesn't mean they actually got the mumps. My kid was never vaccinated for chicken pox until he was much older, and never got chicken pox.

[Visionoyahweh]

Did Geoff pray over Ben's testicles when he was an infant? Apparently, that makes all the difference.

[ridethekick]

Did Geoff pray over Ben's testicles when he was an infant? Apparently, that makes all the difference.

Idk. Anna-Sophia isn't exactly fruitful.

[Kitty]

I dunno how old Ben and Audri are, but even if they're young there could be all sorts of problems.

1. They have never had sex. I've speculated on this before, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if fundie newlyweds didn't do the deed on the wedding night.

2. Stress. It's a major turn-off, and it cannot be fun being a fundy bride, or fundy groom.

3. Audri may be having reproductive issues that do affect fertility, even in younger women. Nobody knows because they won't let her get treated.

4. They could be using NFP and not telling anyone.

5. As for older fundie brides, I recall seeing a study somewhere that said that people who don't have sex by the age of 30 have a higher risk of sexual and reproductive problems. I imagine it's basically because of being forced to be celibate for so long. Since Ben and Audri are younger, they might have drunk the 'sex is evil' kool-aid mentioned above and just can't get past that. Wouldn't surprise me if Audri couldn't, anyway.

6. They might just not know what the hell they're doing. They're fundies, after all.

[justlurking]

5. As for older fundie brides, I recall seeing a study somewhere that said that people who don't have sex by the age of 30 have a higher risk of sexual and reproductive problems. I imagine it's basically because of being forced to be celibate for so long. Since Ben and Audri are younger, they might have drunk the 'sex is evil' kool-aid mentioned above and just can't get past that. Wouldn't surprise me if Audri couldn't, anyway.

l.

I could see how someone in their 30s would have more difficulty conceiving--because we know age often afffects fertility; however I find it hard to believe that celibacy directly causes sexual and reproductive problems. Unless there were issues that the person had never taken care of (because they didn't go to a gynecologist for an annual check up) it's not like their reproductive organs start shutting down (and even if they did I think it would probably be a problem that would affect most people who had not conceived a child by 30 as opposed to those who were celibate until then).

Edited b/c I still confuse "there" "they're" and "their".

[Kitty]

I could see how someone in their 30s would have more difficulty conceiving--because we know age often afffects fertility; however I find it hard to believe that celibacy directly causes sexual and reproductive problems. Unless there were issues that the person had never taken care of (because they didn't go to a gynecologist for an annual check up) it's not like their reproductive organs start shutting down (and even if they did I think it would probably be a problem that would affect most people who had not conceived a child by 30 as opposed to those who were celibate until then).

Edited b/c I still confuse "there" "they're" and "their".

I think the sexual problems were supposed to be mostly psychological, and of course there's the possibility of physical problems never being diagnosed or treated. The study, I recall, actually said "dysfunctions" which included both psychological and physical problems.

I wouldn't be surprised if common fundie sexual dysfunctions were in fact a combination of both.

[treemom]

I grew up before mumps vaccines and had the mumps and both of my brothers did. I doubt that is a major factor in the lack of children in these families. Just because the fundies may have been unvaxed, doesn't mean they actually got the mumps. My kid was never vaccinated for chicken pox until he was much older, and never got chicken pox.

You have to get mumps as an older child in order to had sterility issues. There are also rare cases of mumps as an older child causing sterility in women. My husband's cousin had a case of this.

[Joykins]

I keep thinking about Hank Hill's "narrow urethra" for some reason here.

[Drunkenbutterfly]

the Bradrick sisters that both recently got hitched and are well into their 30's)...

Au contraire, the older one get pregnant quickly after the weeding, according to the FB page of her hubby .