Duggars By the Dozen - General Discussion - Part Eleventy

[PennySycamore]

I wouldn't consider the Duggars conscientious objectors because they don't believe in military service. CO status is usually reserved for pacifists or those of who object to a particular war. COs are people like David Dellinger, Carl Wilson of the Beach Boys, humorist Dave Barry, poet Robert Lowell, and actors Richard Dreyfuss, Fritz Weaver, and Lew Ayres. The Duggars don't serve in the military because they might have to follow orders given by a woman. They don't have much to worry about since we don't have an active draft in the US.

As far as the death penalty goes, those who object to the death penalty (as I do) are considered not "death qualified". We'll be excused from any jury where the death penalty might be a consideration.

[grandmadugger]

Seriously, that killed me.

Then I got to thinking that, in all likelihood, none of the Duggar kids would receive a gift like that from Michelle or JB. That makes me sad.

Someone was cutting onions last night when I watched it. You are right though none of the Duggars will get a gift like that. If it was going to happen JB would have given it to Josh.

[formergothardite]

There is always a formula to get out of Jury duty just by the questions the attorneys ask. I have been called to Jury Duty and have been exempted because attorneys don't generally select another degreed law professional to serve as I can certainly bias the jury. Oh and by the way keep on D??ming the higher above and he will get you back. Peace out.

This only works if she believes in your version of God, which I am pretty sure she doesn't. It is like me saying "Keep slapping those old people and The Flying Spaghetti Monster will reach down with his noodle arms and slap you." You aren't going to be scared because you don't believe. So I don't get why people threaten others with a god they don't believe in, it doesn't work at all.

[Lucy H]

I'm Church of Christ (minus the crazy-and the no sex no drinking no dancing stuff) and we have a member who is in the military. We've always been taught that serving is a good thing. Were you part of the one cuppers/no sunday school movement? I'm just curious because I've never heard that before.

I don't mean to give information to people who are members of these faiths but here is a clarification for those who aren't.

There are two churches with similar names, the United Church of Christ and the Chirch of Christ.

The UCC is liberal and does not endorse military service.

The Chirch of Christ is conservative and does encores military service,

[formergothardite]

They would be welcomed by loved ones and hear the beautiful music played and be given the review of their lives. Then after a certain amount of time, their souls will be regenerated back onto a planet (maybe even Earth again) to learn the next lesson. This is what waits for us all, had my paradigm shift on this topic some time ago.

A life review like in a Chick Tract? I hated the idea of that.

I have the opposite belief system. I believe this is it and you don't get another chance to learn more lessons. So do the best with what you have now instead of thinking that you have another chance to be a better person. The Duggars have been given a lot but don't seem to be learning much but IME that is pretty common among the crowd who believes Jesus is heading back any moment and they have an eternity to live after this life. Not all, of course, but that belief system can cause people to spend so much time focusing on what is to come after death that they forget to focus on what is happening in life.

[halcionne]

This only works if she believes in your version of God, which I am pretty sure she doesn't. It is like me saying "Keep slapping those old people and The Flying Spaghetti Monster will reach down with his noodle arms and slap you." You aren't going to be scared because you don't believe. So I don't get why people threaten others with a god they don't believe in, it doesn't work at all.

Thanks for that visual, I needed a chuckle. :fsm:

[grandmadugger]

I think the Duggars will be in for a shock. I'm not sure if they'll make it. I'm not convinced that outside JB, Michelle, Josh, Anna, Ben, and Derick that any of the others have an actual personal relationship with Jesus, the way they believe you get into heaven. Honestly I'm being generous with Josh and Anna.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Im not really sure what I believe about the afterlife.

I think that if there is a Heaven, then most people will get there unless they do something really terrible. I don't even think having bigoted beliefs should send you to Hell, unless you are outright being violent to people who are different...I think for Michelle and Jimbob, it depends what went on behind the scenes when the cameras aren't on. If they were fans of the Pearls or were abusing their kids in some way, then they should go to Hell. Personally I think they already are at least emotionally and spiritually abusing the kids, without a doubt. I don't really think they do enough good things to deserve it, but I don't know what I would consider being bad enough to go to Hell.

The kids? It entirely depends on what they learn before they die. I don't think it would be right to send someone to Hell for things they did because they didn't know better, so I think if any of them died now, they would be considered innocent, as theyre all pretty fresh out from under their parents thumb. But if they lived long enough to repeat the cycle and be horribly abusive to their own kids, and never repent for that and realise what theyre doing is wrong, then no, they wont get to Heaven.

[calimojo]

Yay Ravelry! Don't worry Sassypants, if you are a fiber enthusiast of any level, Rav is a good resource.

Wow, I just discovered Ravelry after watching youtube video and teaching myself to crochet. I am having such fun. I am about 1/2 done on a huge afghan project for my daughter, and then will start one for my son.

Ok, just so I don't get accused of going off topic, all my recent crocheting has kept me off of FJ, but also I was wondering, why is it we don't ever really see the Duggar women, doing things like sewing, ( yes, I know we saw Jana sew), or quilting, or knitting/crocheting? I would think, in their culture, that these kinds of homey crafts would be required.

The same with gardening, canning, freezing, etc. All of these traditional home activities seem like something that stay at home women, living simply and frugally would be required to learn.

It seems that all the Duggars do, is breed.

If I were a true believer of this lifestyle, I would vote the duggars off the island because they are poor examples. They run a sloppy house, don't grow their own food, don't do handicrafts, they dress relatively modernly, the wear a ton of makeup, they are terrible examples of homeschooling, The Boys seem lazy and un-motivated, We never really see them practicing their instruments anymore, etc.

Outside of the courtship rules, which I suspect are more for the cameras than anything else, I don't really know why this family would be admired by their cohorts in the cult.

[Nic]

Wow, I just discovered Ravelry after watching youtube video and teaching myself to crochet. I am having such fun. I am about 1/2 done on a huge afghan project for my daughter, and then will start one for my son.

Ok, just so I don't get accused of going off topic, all my recent crocheting has kept me off of FJ, but also I was wondering, why is it we don't ever really see the Duggar women, doing things like sewing, ( yes, I know we saw Jana sew), or quilting, or knitting/crocheting? I would think, in their culture, that these kinds of homey crafts would be required.

The same with gardening, canning, freezing, etc. All of these traditional home activities seem like something that stay at home women, living simply and frugally would be required to learn.

It seems that all the Duggars do, is breed.

If I were a true believer of this lifestyle, I would vote the duggars off the island because they are poor examples. They run a sloppy house, don't grow their own food, don't do handicrafts, they dress relatively modernly, the wear a ton of makeup, they are terrible examples of homeschooling, The Boys seem lazy and un-motivated, We never really see them practicing their instruments anymore, etc.

Outside of the courtship rules, which I suspect are more for the cameras than anything else, I don't really know why this family would be admired by their cohorts in the cult.

First yay!

As for the Duggars. Occasionally you will see one of the girls with knitting. I'm thinking I've seen Joy and maybe Jill? There lack of knitting/crocheting being seen I think bc it's not great TV. Then you think they also have all their chores, music, Bible, and raising siblings.

But no except the homemade detergent, they don't do the other stuff. However, I don't think they preach going back to simple times-- they preach frugality and Jesus above all & maybe they crunched the numbers and tatertot casserole is cheapest quickest route to get them back to fellowshipping.

Musical instruments is something they can do as a family and traipse them out to perform like seals.

Also I don't see Michelle as this homey kind of person so why would she encourage her kids too. I didn't get into those kinds of things until I was an adult. I learned to crochet bc frankly my mom figure out that G'ma only had so many afghans left in her, but if I learned...reminds me GMa Duggae knits or crochets. (You start spotting hat everywhere now. Enjoy)

[Honeysuckle]

Wow, I just discovered Ravelry after watching youtube video and teaching myself to crochet. I am having such fun. I am about 1/2 done on a huge afghan project for my daughter, and then will start one for my son.

Ok, just so I don't get accused of going off topic, all my recent crocheting has kept me off of FJ, but also I was wondering, why is it we don't ever really see the Duggar women, doing things like sewing, ( yes, I know we saw Jana sew), or quilting, or knitting/crocheting? I would think, in their culture, that these kinds of homey crafts would be required.

The same with gardening, canning, freezing, etc. All of these traditional home activities seem like something that stay at home women, living simply and frugally would be required to learn.

It seems that all the Duggars do, is breed.

If I were a true believer of this lifestyle, I would vote the duggars off the island because they are poor examples. They run a sloppy house, don't grow their own food, don't do handicrafts, they dress relatively modernly, the wear a ton of makeup, they are terrible examples of homeschooling, The Boys seem lazy and un-motivated, We never really see them practicing their instruments anymore, etc.

Outside of the courtship rules, which I suspect are more for the cameras than anything else, I don't really know why this family would be admired by their cohorts in the cult.

I tried to trim the quote tree here, hopefully I didn't mistakenly attribute this to the wrong person. Anyway, a few months back I was watching some old episodes that took place around the time of Joy's (thirteenth?) birthday. Josh and Anna were shown giving her a bag/purse and she said she thought it would be useful for carrying her knitting stuff. It caught my attention because it's one of the few references to knitting I've heard on the show. I don't know if she still does any knitting, but at least at one time, she did.

There was another episode where Amy and Anna tried to learn to crochet baby booties but they failed, even with Grandma Duggar's help. And Anna was shown sewing in a recent episode while holding her children on her lap and whispering to them to not put their fingers near the needle. Of all of them, I think Anna might be the most inclined to do craft projects, but that may be just because the producers have her do them with her children's help on the show from time to time.

I could picture them doing an episode with sewing or quilting if they wanted to make a baby quilt for one of the new babies, but I don't think it's something the Duggars do often.

[grandmadugger]

First yay!

As for the Duggars. Occasionally you will see one of the girls with knitting. I'm thinking I've seen Joy and maybe Jill? There lack of knitting/crocheting being seen I think bc it's not great TV. Then you think they also have all their chores, music, Bible, and raising siblings.

But no except the homemade detergent, they don't do the other stuff. However, I don't think they preach going back to simple times-- they preach frugality and Jesus above all & maybe they crunched the numbers and tatertot casserole is cheapest quickest route to get them back to fellowshipping.

Musical instruments is something they can do as a family and traipse them out to perform like seals.

Also I don't see Michelle as this homey kind of person so why would she encourage her kids too. I didn't get into those kinds of things until I was an adult. I learned to crochet bc frankly my mom figure out that G'ma only had so many afghans left in her, but if I learned...reminds me GMa Duggae knits or crochets. (You start spotting hat everywhere now. Enjoy)

Welcome to the world of knitting/crochet!

As far as not seeing them really sew, knit, or crochet I can see where it doesn't fall inline with frugal living. Fabric is expensive. The average Queen size quilt can cost a few hundred in fabric. Clothing at Goodwill is much, much cheaper than making your own. Hell, even clothes at Target, Walmart, and Kohls is cheaper than making it. Knitting and crochet is much cheaper but a scarf can still run 20. It is boring to watch though.

As far as the cooking and gardening that part boggles my mind.

[SassyPants]

And the absence of cloth diaper-

All those diapers and waste.

[ClaraOswin]

There was an old episode where Anna and Amy wanted to knit booties for Josie but didn't know how to do it. It was a really stupid episode.

[Kailash]

I'm Church of Christ (minus the crazy-and the no sex no drinking no dancing stuff) and we have a member who is in the military. We've always been taught that serving is a good thing. Were you part of the one cuppers/no sunday school movement? I'm just curious because I've never heard that before.

Yes, we were one cup communion, no instruments in church, no sunday school, women didn't speak in church etc. Women didn't cut their hair either.

eta: Women didn't wear pants/or shorts either. Deut. 22:5

[Blueruin]

There was an old episode where Anna and Amy wanted to knit booties for Josie but didn't know how to do it. It was a really stupid episode.

I may not crochet very well but that episode hurt my brain. They went way to complex for a beginner IMO.

Also a ravelry person, but I'm more of a knitter.

IIRC the horribly staged amish show had the mother that crocheted and quilted. But the fundies I've known have never knit or crocheted because they're too busy with babies and God.

[Flippp]

Someone said on another thread that it would take some scandal of epic proportions to get the show cancelled. If you were to guess what the scandal, what would it be?

I'm going to say that Jessa isn't actually pregnant and is illegally adopting a baby. Everyone finds out when the Duggars miss a monthly payment to the birth mother because Bin-boy forgot(with all of his other responsibilities he has).

[GeoBQn]

That won't do it. Their leghumpers would be ok with illegal adoption as long as a precious heathen baby gets to join a "godly Christian" family.

After all the shit they've pulled and still walked away, the only scandal that would cancel the show is if JimBob is caught in bed with a dead girl or a live boy.

[GeoBQn]

On another note, a commenter on Pickles said they were reading the instagram of Krista, someone who goes to church with the Duggars. Krista was sad that "church was ending" and she was nervous about visiting new churches. When followers asked her questions, she deleted the comments and changed her posting. Krista then posted the following response:

The lease on our building was up, and the land lord decided to pursue another business option that was more profitable. With so many families traveling during the summer, families moving, ext. it was just easier to have us attend other churches than try to find a space, organize services, ext. when so many families are traveling during the summer anyways.

[nelliebelle1197]

This only works if she believes in your version of God, which I am pretty sure she doesn't. It is like me saying "Keep slapping those old people and The Flying Spaghetti Monster will reach down with his noodle arms and slap you." You aren't going to be scared because you don't believe. So I don't get why people threaten others with a god they don't believe in, it doesn't work at all.

No, there is NOT a formula for getting out of jury duty. I know plenty of lawyers who have served. Whatever the goddamn to hell a "degreed legal professional" might be, it is not a lawyer and certainly a equal to a lawyer, so being "another degreed legal professional" does not a peer to the lawyer doing jury selection make.

Certainly, a prosecutor is going to fight to keep a federal defender off a capital case or a famous plaintiffs lawyer off a class action, but it not true lawyers don't get called. And you aren't a lawyer, so I am sure you were not called for other reasons.

THERE IS NO SET FORMULA TO KEEP AN AVERAGE HEALTHY PERSON OFF A JURY. Jury selection is particular to the facts of a case and also to the number of people actually called. Around here, you can pretty much guarantee a seat in the box if you are called to federal court because of the small pools called.

[ClaraOswin]

Have strong, biased opinions on something related to the case and you'll get dismissed pretty quickly.

Examples from one of the times I was a part of jury selection....they asked people's thoughts on chiropractors (car accident case) and people who basically said it was a fake science or whatever were dismissed pretty quickly.

Both times I was called, when people had a strong opinion on something the lawyer would ask something like "will this make it hard for you to be fair in this case?" And if people said yes, they were dismissed.

[clueliss]

two jury selections here.

Time 1 - my reading material - a book on raising Chrisitan children (do not have kids, was reco'd since I was a Sunday School Teacher) - literally the book I grabbed on the way out the door with little thought - probably didn't help. But what really did me in was having an opinion on the local lax drug laws. Case involved aggravated battery/assault, victim received immunity for his testimony and was in possession of pot in quantity to sell (also had an opinion on the immunity issue). I had a ring side seat next to the DA's, I knew my number. I was highlighted. I was also not selected. Watching Crime TV is another flag (this ADA was concerned not about CSI - but about Law & Order and True Crime shows).

Time 2 was a case that involved 2 minors who assaulted their mother at the urging of the father (parents divorced, ongoing custody issues). When we got to the question about do you know anyone who has been abused etc, my hand raised, I told them in general who and said it would affect my ability to be unbiased. I was thanked and let go. And it was not a lie because the father was in front of me and I kept glaring at him wanting to smack him stupid and tell him what I thought.

Not hard to get out of jury duty. They do not want jurors who do not want to seriously be there. They also do not want the gung ho who are dying to be there. And if you express an opinion/raise your hand, you'll probably get dismissed. That first time, the 12 they kept were the 12 quietest people in the gorup.

[for_the_Kitties]

On another note, a commenter on Pickles said they were reading the instagram of Krista, someone who goes to church with the Duggars. Krista was sad that "church was ending" and she was nervous about visiting new churches. When followers asked her questions, she deleted the comments and changed her posting. Krista then posted the following response:

This is interesting. My tinfoil theory: Could the Duggars have too many summer plans to keep up with their church, and are disbanding it for the summer. Only to reopen with their new ULTRA MEGA CHURCH OF DUGGAR in the fall. The disseminating to otherr area churches could be their recruitment method. Bahh who am i kidding. they are not this organized...

Or it could be they are getting too much flack for their show or a bunch of dishonest "new" church members (leghumpers) and need to weed them out?

Or are they leaving ATI altogether to join Cross Church to look more mainstream for the Teevee?

[clueliss]

If true - I see a distancing from ATI/Gothard etc because it is beginning to leak out to the mainstream and well we wouldn't want to tarnish the brand, now would we. That said, I see following the ultra conservative teachings in their private lives and a continuation of the lax homeschooling.

[EmmieJ]

Ok, just so I don't get accused of going off topic, all my recent crocheting has kept me off of FJ, but also I was wondering, why is it we don't ever really see the Duggar women, doing things like sewing, ( yes, I know we saw Jana sew), or quilting, or knitting/crocheting? I would think, in their culture, that these kinds of homey crafts would be required.

The same with gardening, canning, freezing, etc. All of these traditional home activities seem like something that stay at home women, living simply and frugally would be required to learn.

It seems that all the Duggars do, is breed.

If I were a true believer of this lifestyle, I would vote the duggars off the island because they are poor examples. They run a sloppy house, don't grow their own food, don't do handicrafts, they dress relatively modernly, the wear a ton of makeup, they are terrible examples of homeschooling, The Boys seem lazy and un-motivated, We never really see them practicing their instruments anymore, etc.

Outside of the courtship rules, which I suspect are more for the cameras than anything else, I don't really know why this family would be admired by their cohorts in the cult.

This, to the power of 10. They have a big piece of property -- why do we never see them doing any gardening? Even something fairly simple as growing fresh herbs in pots, to use in their cooking? Pick an easy plant to grow - zucchini, or tomatoes. Unless they are traveling, they should be home much of the time to care for at least a small garden.

They love pickles so much -- have they ever tried pickling their own? Seems like that would have been a good homeschool lesson.

What about having a few chickens so they could have fresh eggs? My brother did this from perhaps age 9 or so -- he wanted to earn some money, my dad loaned him start up funds to buy some chicks and feed, helped him build a small chicken coop, and away he went. Those chickens provided plenty of eggs for the family, and my brother sold the extra eggs to neighbors. If a 9 year old boy can do that, certainly some of the older Duggar kids could as well.

I just don't see any of the Duggar children as having many skills or hobbies. JD gets to be a pilot. Jinger loves to take pictures. Jill thinks she's practically a midwife (ha!). But seriously -- what the hell activities or special skills do most of those kids have?