Nattie Darnell is running for office!

[DomWackTroll]

Not really, or rather not officially, as far as I know. It probably attracted a lot of Rushdooneyites but DP himself was careful to appear inclusive, IMO. I think it was one of those uneasy alliances on "some" doctrinal Patriarchal things. When the scandal broke, a Chalcedony spokesman (I'd have to look up his name) published a long rant about DP's doctrinal failings. Also Peter Kershaw TW Eston ranted against both DP and RC Sproul for not being racist enough, if you remember.

I'm not sure where Darnell gets his racism from but he is definitely running with the wrong crowd and veering in the Kinist direction. Again, IMO.

Yes, over at the Reconstructionist Theonomists FB page Darnell has several times made a big spectacle of "repudiating Kinism" and saying they wouldn't allow it to be taught there, but they know damn well that at least a few kinists are still posting there. They just don't allow them to say, "I'm a kinist." But you click through to their pages and blogs and, oh, what do we have here? Phrases such as "yoking like with like" and whining about how they shouldn't have to feel ashamed of their "heritage."

[Palimpsest]

Yes, over at the Reconstructionist Theonomists FB page Darnell has several times made a big spectacle of "repudiating Kinism" and saying they wouldn't allow it to be taught there, but they know damn well that at least a few kinists are still posting there. They just don't allow them to say, "I'm a kinist." But you click through to their pages and blogs and, oh, what do we have here? Phrases such as "yoking like with like" and whining about how they shouldn't have to feel ashamed of their "heritage."

Yes. I haven't had the time or intestinal fortitude to read at that cesspit recently but the last time I looked Kinist "tells" were all over the place. Darnell knows full well that Kinists post there and lets their comments stand. Ugly stuff.

[CloakNDagger]

"Dr. Jehle in Plymouth"---would that be Nick Jehle who used to comment quite a lot on the ServenClan blog when Rebecca wrote it?

No. Dr. Paul Jehle up in Plymouth, Massachusetts. They used to do Faith and Freedom tours up there and I'm pretty sure he spoke at the Jamestown 400. I think some of the speakers were truly sucked in by the slick presentation and promise of a wider audience than they had previously had before. If you have something you'd like to share with a wider audience, it's definitely easy to see how they could be sucked into the vortex of something like Vision Forum was at the time.

[CloakNDagger]

Doug and his staff were writing and purchasing books to sell, representing the VF life and philosophy. I don't think "nobody could read it all" is much of an excuse.

Oh, I am pretty sure it's true though, to at least some extent. Also, some of the items sold were there on staff recommendations, or because of someone else affiliated. Not everything was so neat and tidy as it appeared. Actually, that was a cause of some internal struggles with the staff.

As for the Henty books being pulled, when was that? And what were the other books pulled? Were they sold at markdown, or just dumped?

They weren't sold or sold at markdown, I'm pretty sure of that.

[Palimpsest]

No. Dr. Paul Jehle up in Plymouth, Massachusetts. They used to do Faith and Freedom tours up there and I'm pretty sure he spoke at the Jamestown 400.

Good grief! The Plymouth Rock Foundation Paul Jehle was into VF and is a card-carrying extreme Fundie? He lectures quite widely. I'm glad he spoke up about at least some of the offensive racist content Doug sold.

Honestly, it's like whack-a-mole with these people. They pop up everywhere.

[CloakNDagger]

Good grief! The Plymouth Rock Foundation Paul Jehle was into VF and is a card-carrying extreme Fundie? He lectures quite widely. I'm glad he spoke up about at least some of the offensive racist content Doug sold.

Honestly, it's like whack-a-mole with these people. They pop up everywhere.

DPIAT used to brag to staff about being able to pull together diverse speakers who wouldn't usually agree with each other and get them to speak about the topics he thought they were great on. It never meant that he agreed with everything they did or said. You have to remember that this guy is first class at making you feel special and like you are the best in the world, unless you somehow end up on his bad side! I think it was quite deliberate, too. He used to tell his interns about the time he met Bill Clinton and how Clinton knew who you were and knew something about you and you felt like you had his undivided attention for the space of time he devoted to you. Doug copied that for sure.

[Palimpsest]

DPIAT used to brag to staff about being able to pull together diverse speakers who wouldn't usually agree with each other and get them to speak about the topics he thought they were great on. It never meant that he agreed with everything they did or said. You have to remember that this guy is first class at making you feel special and like you are the best in the world, unless you somehow end up on his bad side! I think it was quite deliberate, too. He used to tell his interns about the time he met Bill Clinton and how Clinton knew who you were and knew something about you and you felt like you had his undivided attention for the space of time he devoted to you. Doug copied that for sure.

Ah. Point taken on DP's charm. It does make me wonder though how Jehle had enough clout with Doug to remonstrate with him. And whether he lectured on the revisionist history that Doug obviously preferred or the real stuff. I don't know Jehle but I have heard him speak. I wonder what he would say if someone asked him about his affiliation with VF today.

[thoughtful]

Oh, I am pretty sure it's true though, to at least some extent. Also, some of the items sold were there on staff recommendations, or because of someone else affiliated. Not everything was so neat and tidy as it appeared. Actually, that was a cause of some internal struggles with the staff.

They weren't sold or sold at markdown, I'm pretty sure of that.

When was this? When did you speak up? Who were the others who spoke up (if you are comfortable telling us)? Do you know what Doug's reaction to the Henty books being criticized was? Did he make the decision to pull them himself?

[thoughtful]

While I was looking for VF Henty history, I happened on this blog, which has pictures of Dr. Jehle and Dougie speaking at Plymouth Rock at the Faith and Family event in 2007.

hornherald.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html

[Marian the Librarian]

As an aside, I own an 8" Tinky Winky complete with purse wearing a "the Moral Majority is Neither" button on his chest. I used to have him sitting on a shelf at work. :twisted:

:lol: :clap:

And, in a happy coincidence, here's what popped up on CNN yesterday: "Now who's the Moral Majority?"

http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/06/opinions/ ... index.html

(Not breaking the link because it's CNN.)

[CloakNDagger]

When was this? When did you speak up? Who were the others who spoke up (if you are comfortable telling us)? Do you know what Doug's reaction to the Henty books being criticized was? Did he make the decision to pull them himself?

I really can't go into details without giving my identity out. You guys have to keep in mind that I may disguise myself at times on this board just in case of mischief.

[WonderingInWA]

"Dr. Jehle in Plymouth"---would that be Nick Jehle who used to comment quite a lot on the ServenClan blog when Rebecca wrote it?

That guy was Nick Jesch and he's still in tight with the Servens. He's on FB and still spewing his opinions about everything he cares about.

[salex]

So, did he get the office he was seeking?

[Palimpsest]

So, did he get the office he was seeking?

We don't know because the election hasn't been held yet. From Darnell's official candidate page:

"The date for the vote at the 11th District Convention is April 18th at Roswell Street Baptist Church in Marietta, Georgia. Doors close at 10:00am, so if you're a delegate, be sure to arrive early!"

[MamaJunebug]

That guy was Nick Jesch and he's still in tight with the Servens. He's on FB and still spewing his opinions about everything he cares about.

Ah, thank you. My mind, it is like a steel ... sieve.

I looked him up and he's an oldie! Which made me chuckle, because I distinctly remember times when Jesch would reply to something Rebecca had written and realquickafterthat Steven Loomis would reply and one could almost sense Steven's anxiety as though he was competing with Jesch for Rebecca's attention. Heh.

[Palimpsest]

While I was looking for VF Henty history, I happened on this blog, which has pictures of Dr. Jehle and Dougie speaking at Plymouth Rock at the Faith and Family event in 2007.

hornherald.blogspot.com/2007_11_01_archive.html

Good find. I wonder whether that kid is related to Dan Horn? More about Dan here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22456

Dan Horn produced or narrated or both (I forget) an "educational" video that made me want to put my fist through the computer screen. Slaves just loved being slaves, don't you know. When "good" slaves became Christians their masters generously allowed them time off to go to church. Apparently not even converted slaves deserved to be freed though. :roll:

Paul Jehle is the pastor of this pretty-darn-Fundie church. It also has a Christian school attached: tntchurch.net/about.php

This is the Plymouth Rock Foundation: plymrock.org I ran across Jehle while doing Plymouth and Plimouth Plantation (for probably the 99th time) with visiting UK friends. He's not usually hugely revisionist on MA history and is quite accurate on the (so-called) Boston Massacre. :wink-kitty: Definitely heavy Christian overtones though.

A little digging says that "Dr." Jehle's D.Ed is from Whitehead Theological Seminary. Wikipedia tells me that Whitehead Theological Seminary is not accredited. No surprise.

[thoughtful]

I really can't go into details without giving my identity out. You guys have to keep in mind that I may disguise myself at times on this board just in case of mischief.

I do keep that in mind. But it does seem that you want "cred," for want of a better way to put it, for being against Dougie and VF, and dropping hints about things, without ever giving any information that we don't already have.

You have no responsibility to us, of course. It just gets under my skin a bit that casual readers of FJ might get the impression that you are an anti-VF rebel who bravely protested bigotry, due to a vague post of yours, when some of your other posts have shown your bigotry against gay people, and attitude about slavery and the Civil War.

You also never answered my question about when the intern program started, or who was in it. If you really think that giving us names of people involved in either the first few internship years, or the pulling of the Henty books, or when either happened, or Doug's reaction to the idea of pulling those books would "out" you, I accept it.

But, without any details, I have a hard time believing that anyone ever protested the selling of the Henty books.

[thoughtful]

Good find. I wonder whether that kid is related to Dan Horn? More about Dan here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22456

Dan Horn produced or narrated or both (I forget) an "educational" video that made me want to put my fist through the computer screen. Slaves just loved being slaves, don't you know. When "good" slaves became Christians their masters generously allowed them time off to go to church. Apparently not even converted slaves deserved to be freed though. :roll:

I remember that evil video. I forgot that that shithead's last name was Horn, though.

I wonder if they are related. The Hornherald blog's recent posts are mostly travelogues, but there was a recent post against same-sex marriage (which, in a delicious typo, the blog writer refers to as "sex marriages" -- gee, isn't that part of most marriages? :D ):

hornherald.blogspot.com/2015/02/wheres-our-roy-moore.html

[Palimpsest]

I do keep that in mind. But it does seem that you want "cred," for want of a better way to put it, for being against Dougie and VF, and dropping hints about things, without ever giving any information that we don't already have.

You have no responsibility to us, of course. It just gets under my skin a bit that casual readers of FJ might get the impression that you are an anti-VF rebel who bravely protested bigotry, due to a vague post of yours, when some of your other posts have shown your bigotry against gay people, and attitude about slavery and the Civil War.

You also never answered my question about when the intern program started, or who was in it. If you really think that giving us names of people involved in either the first few internship years, or the pulling of the Henty books, or when either happened, or Doug's reaction to the idea of pulling those books would "out" you, I accept it.

But, without any details, I have a hard time believing that anyone ever protested the selling of the Henty books.

Eh, I think CnD's caution about discussing details here that might reveal his identity is understandable. I think his reluctance to identify other people who may (or may not) have spoken out is also very understandable -- and actually praiseworthy. He would potentially be "outing" other people who may still be in the control of the cult and that would be wrong. He has proven reliable on many things and I think he has been clear on things he doesn't know. He is also not a feckless gossip. In short -- CnD is no KISA!

This is going to sound really patronizing, sorry CnD, but I think he has come a long way since he first arrived at FJ. He has been corrected fairly stringently when he's put his foot in it --and he has put his foot in it several times. He seldom makes the same mistake a second time, IIRC.

I'm fairly sure exposure to all the evil Godless feminists here has opened his eyes to a lot of things. Remember, deprogramming takes a long time and you don't go from zero to sixty overnight. We are patient with other escapees from Fundyism so I think we should be patient with CnD. Even when he is being annoyingly. :)

Now I need to hold my nose and go and research the Henty books. I'd not heard of them before this discussion. Will I need to ask for rescue ferrets?

[formergothardite]

Unless there was a hoard of people protesting Henty books people who knew that happened are probably going to be able to figure out who he is, or at least have a close idea of who he is. Same with the question about when the intern program first started. If it was some sort of secret then just saying he knows that Nattie's was not the first group of interns is going to help people figure out who he is, if it wasn't a secret and is common knowledge then saying when the intern program started won't reveal who he is at all because tons of people know it.

I think he should be cautious but it seems like he might be revealing more than he wanted to because there had to be a very limited number of people who protested the Henty books and knows when the first intern program started(if that is some sort of secret, not sure why it would be.)

[thoughtful]

Unless there was a hoard of people protesting Henty books people who knew that happened are probably going to be able to figure out who he is, or at least have a close idea of who he is.

Absolutely. He has already said he was one of the people protesting, so he volunteered information that narrowed it down more than most of my questions would have.

CnD, I have no problem with your being careful, and I will stop asking questions that might "out" you if answered. In fact, I have no interest in who you are, or in tidbits of VF information.

I only asked for more information about the Henty books because it does stick in my craw when someone who has displayed outright bigotry in one thread (granted, against gay people, not AA people):

viewtopic.php?f=164&t=20466&p=675651#p675651

viewtopic.php?f=164&t=20466&p=695586#p695586

viewtopic.php?f=164&t=20466&start=140#p695904

viewtopic.php?f=164&t=20466&start=140#p696029

and danced around the slavery question in another, starting about here:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21996&start=100#p749450

says something that makes him look like a defender of minorities in the eyes of FJers, with no way for us to know if it was true or not.

I am generally a person who believes in catching more flies with honey, and giving people who are coming out of a restricted upbringing time to grow. Maybe I was not living up to that when I reminded FJers of CnD's prejudices.

For that, I apologize, and I continue to hope that he will shake off more of his VF past, and that he is safe.

But I sure would like him to get past the "gays are icky and unBiblical" and "slavery would have ended anyway" stances. :D

[CloakNDagger]

Absolutely. He has already said he was one of the people protesting, so he volunteered information that narrowed it down more than most of my questions would have.

CnD, I have no problem with your being careful, and I will stop asking questions that might "out" you if answered. In fact, I have no interest in who you are, or in tidbits of VF information.

I only asked for more information about the Henty books because it does stick in my craw when someone who has displayed outright bigotry in one thread (granted, against gay people, not AA people):

snip

says something that makes him look like a defender of minorities in the eyes of FJers, with no way for us to know if it was true or not.

I didn't actually claim that, if you go back and read what I said.

I just know that some of us did have a hand in for instance pulling Henty and other books off the shelves that we did realize WERE racist after having read them. NO one had time to read all of the stuff there, and I doubt Doug Phillips is a Tool read Darnell's book all the way through.

My personal involvement, or lack thereof - whichever it was, wasn't the point. That wasn't intended to make me look better, but to set the record straight that there were people in VF that were sensitive to racism.

[formergothardite]

You are not dumb CnD, you knew when you wrote that that it would make it seem like you were one of the people who actually read the Henty books and protested the racism. If you weren't trying to imply that you were one of the ones who helped remove racism from VF you wouldn't have used "us" and "we".

So was the first internship a huge secret? It is just really odd that you would drop that little tidbit and then refuse to say anything else about it.

[CloakNDagger]

You are not dumb CnD, you knew when you wrote that that it would make it seem like you were one of the people who actually read the Henty books and protested the racism. If you weren't trying to imply that you were one of the ones who helped remove racism from VF you wouldn't have used "us" and "we".

So was the first internship a huge secret? It is just really odd that you would drop that little tidbit and then refuse to say anything else about it.

PM sent.

[RosyDaisy]

CnD, you might as well come clean. If I didn't know already, your last few posts gave you away. My question now is, what else do you know?