Help your joy-another baby beating business

[CelticGoddess]

Those hot-glue sticks, I'd bet. Thicker than a pencil, and I bet the longer ones flex enough to be nasty.

I had a co-worker who used glue sticks on her kids. She told me it was because they didn't leave marks, but caused pain. She disgusted me at times

[SoybeanQueen]

A baby who won't reach and explore must be a terribly sad sight. Can't imagine being proud of hitting my baby until he or she stopped being curious. :(

[BlackSheep]

What Would Jesus Do?

NOT THIS.

[salex]

I have three shelves of antique china including my great aunt's pink and gold baby cup from the 1890s and a two dishes given to me from the family of my grandma's best friend which date to the 1830s. I also have a shelf of Tiffany crystal that is all sentimental bridesmaids gifts and such and yet another of rare family photos, including a baby photo of my beloved grandpa from 1903. Guess what? All these are in reach of my kids, now 4 and 7. Guess what else? My kids don't touch them because I told them a few times the shelves are off limits and mean a lot to mommy.

That is the other thing-- why do they assume they only way to discipline all kids is to start beating them early and often? I wonder if these "submissive" wives are just really angry and since they have access to kids who have no recourse, they let their aggression out.

Whoever said it, I heard the "no marks" explanation as well.

This blogger talks about how his minister

went so far as to suggest that we NOT take our children to any doctor that would inspect their backsides for marks, because then the doctor might be obligated to report suspected abuse.

He went on to say he could recommend a Dr. who “understood†Biblical discipline and was always careful to never inspect children’s backsides for bruising.

christianagnostic.wordpress.com/tag/glue-stick/

[polecat]

That is the other thing-- why do they assume they only way to discipline all kids is to start beating them early and often? I wonder if these "submissive" wives are just really angry and since they have access to kids who have no recourse, they let their aggression out.

Whoever said it, I heard the "no marks" explanation as well.

This blogger talks about how his minister

christianagnostic.wordpress.com/tag/glue-stick/

Apart from all the WTFery of this, I don't recall my kids' ped ever checking their butts for bruises or for that matter checking their butts at all once they were out of diapers. I'd have to wonder if the doctor in question already suspected abuse.

[polecat]

I have three shelves of antique china including my great aunt's pink and gold baby cup from the 1890s and a two dishes given to me from the family of my grandma's best friend which date to the 1830s. I also have a shelf of Tiffany crystal that is all sentimental bridesmaids gifts and such and yet another of rare family photos, including a baby photo of my beloved grandpa from 1903. Guess what? All these are in reach of my kids, now 4 and 7. Guess what else? My kids don't touch them because I told them a few times the shelves are off limits and mean a lot to mommy.

I never really went to great lengths to childproof my house. I was very clear with my kids that some things were dangerous and that some things were simply off-limits. I didn't hit them, but I was really active in redirecting them until they were old enough to understand.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Apparently her husband was IBLP and he cheated on her and left her in 2001.

freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=129&t=19049

and other FJ links:

google.com/search?q=lori+voeller+site:www.freejinger.org&sa=X&ei=00CsVIDmIM2togS-woLQBg&ved=0CEYQrQIoAjAI&biw=1093&bih=514

The detailed description of how to beat babies is chilling.

I remember my babies at 6 mos. It was an awesome age, usually the peak of baby cuteness. We spent our time TRYING to engage the baby, get the baby to reach for things, and encouraging the baby to roll over, crawl, etc. It's simply not possible for a baby that young to be capable of doing anything "bad". Hitting a child that young with a 1/4 inch dowel, 5 or 6 times? Unbelievable.

My middle child was the one who tended to climb everything, got into everything, bumped her head constantly and generally needed to be watched closely. Yes, it took some work - but it was also a sign that she had a very active mind. Once she outgrew the clumsy toddler stage - because all normal kids outgrow this naturally - we realized that she was basically like a mature, intelligent adult stuck in the body of a little kid. The same spirit that made her resist going to sleep early and want to explore everything also led to her being an unusually mature, responsible, and brilliant kid.

My oldest child resisted sleeping on her own, and always wanted to be in physical contact with us. I was tired and frustrated and occasionally read up on how she needed to be "disciplined" or "trained" into being more independent, but resisted much of that advice while thinking that I was a wuss. When I finally read Dr. Sears, it basically just confirmed to me that what I was already doing wasn't crazy. This was a child who craved our love and attention. Why was that a bad thing? We stopped fighting it and embraced it. For years, she'd cuddle at bedtime, tell us all about her day, let us know if anything was bothering her, etc. Since she was so sensitive to us, a mere look of disapproval or stern "no" would make her stop and cry. She's 15 now, and like all teens, has no problem sleeping. Unlike some teens, she's also still close to us. It doesn't happen every night anymore, but she'll still cuddle up with me and she still likes to talk about what's going on in her life. She has the odd teen moment or spat with her little brother, because she's a normal teen, but she's not desperately trying to rebel or defy us. She actually likes us and cares about our views. If I had seen her looking to me as a bad thing when she was a baby, and tried to train her to ignore me and just be on her own, and showed her that I was someone to be feared, how would it have destroyed that deep bond?

[sparkles]

That is the other thing-- why do they assume they only way to discipline all kids is to start beating them early and often? I wonder if these "submissive" wives are just really angry and since they have access to kids who have no recourse, they let their aggression out.

Whoever said it, I heard the "no marks" explanation as well.

This blogger talks about how his minister

christianagnostic.wordpress.com/tag/glue-stick/

And that says to me that these child abusers know damned well that what they're doing is WRONG.

[Walking Cat Bed]

:pink-shock: I have a 1 year who didn't mess with the Christmas ornaments. A firm no (not yelling) and redirect to her toys. We lost only one ornament.

My KITTEN knows that if I point the spray bottle at her, she needs to stop what she's doing (usually trying to eat from someone's place, scratching furniture, or on top of the bookshelves that my roommate uses for seed-starting). That and a "no ma'am!" do the trick 90% of the time. VERY occasionally I have to put her in "time-out" (in my room, where she has food/litter box/toys/my bed, with the door closed) because she's just too wound up or has had a biting-and-scratching tantrum. Usually I can redirect her attention with a toy she wants.

If a KITTEN responds to consistent, mild "training", a CHILD would respond to the same kind of thing -- not beating, but redirecting. And as many snuggles as I can get out of her, which is good for bonding.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

The detailed description of how to beat babies is chilling.

I remember my babies at 6 mos. It was an awesome age, usually the peak of baby cuteness. We spent our time TRYING to engage the baby, get the baby to reach for things, and encouraging the baby to roll over, crawl, etc. It's simply not possible for a baby that young to be capable of doing anything "bad". Hitting a child that young with a 1/4 inch dowel, 5 or 6 times? Unbelievable.

My middle child was the one who tended to climb everything, got into everything, bumped her head constantly and generally needed to be watched closely. Yes, it took some work - but it was also a sign that she had a very active mind. Once she outgrew the clumsy toddler stage - because all normal kids outgrow this naturally - we realized that she was basically like a mature, intelligent adult stuck in the body of a little kid. The same spirit that made her resist going to sleep early and want to explore everything also led to her being an unusually mature, responsible, and brilliant kid.

My oldest child resisted sleeping on her own, and always wanted to be in physical contact with us. I was tired and frustrated and occasionally read up on how she needed to be "disciplined" or "trained" into being more independent, but resisted much of that advice while thinking that I was a wuss. When I finally read Dr. Sears, it basically just confirmed to me that what I was already doing wasn't crazy. This was a child who craved our love and attention. Why was that a bad thing? We stopped fighting it and embraced it. For years, she'd cuddle at bedtime, tell us all about her day, let us know if anything was bothering her, etc. Since she was so sensitive to us, a mere look of disapproval or stern "no" would make her stop and cry. She's 15 now, and like all teens, has no problem sleeping. Unlike some teens, she's also still close to us. It doesn't happen every night anymore, but she'll still cuddle up with me and she still likes to talk about what's going on in her life. She has the odd teen moment or spat with her little brother, because she's a normal teen, but she's not desperately trying to rebel or defy us. She actually likes us and cares about our views. If I had seen her looking to me as a bad thing when she was a baby, and tried to train her to ignore me and just be on her own, and showed her that I was someone to be feared, how would it have destroyed that deep bond?

Great post! Unfortunately, I don't think many fundies are that interested in forming bonds like that with their children. I can't picture Jill Rodrigues having a special bond with any of her individual children. They're all the same, all expected to act the same.

On a side note, I also read Dr. Sears and even took my kids to their practice many years ago. Now my younger two sleep on their own but my 12 year old sleeps with me every night. But hey, at least she doesn't nurse anymore ;D

[Four is Enough]

I'll admit I put hot sauce on my kids' tongues for sassiness, but once the oldest said he likes it, (he still uses hot sauce as much as ketchup) I realized that didn't work. I swatted their bums with my hand, if they needed a lesson given the hard way, but NEVER with an instrument. Good Lord, those long thin glue sticks would leave a welt!

I have seen African American mothers with their children on their laps in public places. If the child persists in talking, yelling, singing, and it's time to be quiet, I've seen the moms simply touch the child's lips. Noise subsides, and no pain is involved. THIS is the kind of discipline that it takes to get a child to understand when it is appropriate to be quiet. It takes attention and discipline on the mother's end to make sure the child gets the message. Quietly, easily, consistently. I often wish I'd seen this practice when my second child was small. He WAS a talker... and I'd wind up begging him to be quiet.. until the next outburst. Smacking his mouth or giving him vinegar never crossed my radar.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Great post! Unfortunately, I don't think many fundies are that interested in forming bonds like that with their children. I can't picture Jill Rodrigues having a special bond with any of her individual children. They're all the same, all expected to act the same.

On a side note, I also read Dr. Sears and even took my kids to their practice many years ago. Now my younger two sleep on their own but my 12 year old sleeps with me every night. But hey, at least she doesn't nurse anymore ;D

I don't follow Dr. Sears dogmatically, as I've seen some do. I appreciated his different perspective and suggestions, but didn't consider it to be a list of commands. His approach was perfect for Girl 1, but the tools weren't that useful for The Boy. I do, however, believe that the PSYCHOLOGICAL concept of attachment (as opposed to mere physical attachment to a baby) is vitally important for healthy child development, and there's good data to back that up.

My goal isn't to rule by fear. It's to raise children who will be good people making smart choices on their own. I can't rule over them 24/7. I can provide guidance so that they don't go totally crazy, and gradually loosen the strings as I trust that they have enough common sense and have absorbed enough of our values. Girl 1 is about to study in another country. I'll miss her like hell and get a bit nervous in general, but I'm confident that she'll do fine.

[momof2treasures]

I think it's important to realize that , at least for me, I'm not posting this because I'm dogging on apparent that has spanked or whacked their kid on the butt. You have to read this website to really understand. This is being done to infants. Tiny babies as early as 4 months in a carefully orchestrated, systematic way. They have been hit hundreds of times by their first birthday. "Trained" not to cry , or grab things, or move of a blanket. Fearful to lift their head up at nap time or bedtime. How can this be any less any evil? These babies are in survival mode, doing what ever they have to to avoid pain instead of feeling safe and growing. All for what? What is the purpose of torturing these babies?

[Coco]

[*]

I think it's important to realize that , at least for me, I'm not posting this because I'm dogging on apparent that has spanked or whacked their kid on the butt. You have to read this website to really understand. This is being done to infants. Tiny babies as early as 4 months in a carefully orchestrated, systematic way. They have been hit hundreds of times by their first birthday. "Trained" not to cry , or grab things, or move of a blanket. Fearful to lift their head up at nap time or bedtime. How can this be any less any evil? These babies are in survival mode, doing what ever they have to to avoid pain instead of feeling safe and growing. All for what? What is the purpose of torturing these babies?

To break their spirit. Self will = sin nature in fundie eyes. So wrong, so damaging.

theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/01/childhood-guilt-adult-depression/384176/

[moodygirl86]

I'll admit I put hot sauce on my kids' tongues for sassiness, but once the oldest said he likes it, (he still uses hot sauce as much as ketchup) I realized that didn't work.

Is that you, Mum? Mine did that to me once with vinegar, but regretted it more when she realised I loved it! I still can't eat most foods without Sarsons Malt.

I haven't got kids, but if I did I'd train them to stay far away from anyone by the name of Lori!

[Deist woman]

[*] To break their spirit. Self will = sin nature in fundie eyes. So wrong, so damaging.

theatlantic.com/health/archive/2015/01/childhood-guilt-adult-depression/384176/

I read that article this morning, and I immediately thought of the fundie methods of child rearing. Yet another piece of evidence that treating children as inherently sinful beings, and that holding up impossible standards of behavior and thought, not only make the childhood of many a hell on earth, but also extends the damage far into adult years, if not for life.

[JemimaPuddle-Duck]

This baby"training" is gross. I can say that as a fundie, with lots of fundie friends, and lots of babies everywhere.......I don't know anyone who does this. Seriously. This is not "average fundie parenting".

[2xx1xy1JD]

Here's a good review article on what attachment is, and the evidence showing its importance to later mental health outcomes:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2724160/

Basically, infants who know that they can reliably count on a parent to make them feel safe, secure and protected do much better in the long run than infants who can't.

[doggie]

we put hot sauce on the garbage can rim as our kid liked to gum it. but it was only tabasco sauce. it was the only way to stop her.

[Deist woman]

I did the occasional hand swat to the bottom when my kids were young, and now, looking back, I wish that I had not, and I would take it back if I could. From what I have learned since then, there were much better options in disciplining kids. My kids are adults now, and are amused when I speak of this regret. Their response? "Oh, you should have beat us much more! We were awful sometimes."

But the end result is, I have three fully grown, fully employeed, adult children in long term relationships (from 5 years for the youngest to 15 years for the oldest. No one on drugs, no one drinking (to excess!), never arrested (so far!). They attended school, and managed to come through the evil public school system with good grades, got scholarships, and earned degrees that they make their living from now. And, they are all at least fairly religious. I don't think we are out of the mainstream by much. Most people's kids turn out OK. What makes these people think their kids will turn out to be disasters, and be damned to eternal hell if they don't beat them, deprive them of affection, instill them with fear and self loathing, and cripple them as adults? If most people's children turn out well, without these measures, why do they believe theirs WON'T? Doesn't that seem to indicate that these parents are the abnormal ones? Is this a symptom of their own self-hate, projected onto innocent children? Please, someone who may understand this paradox, explain it to me?

[skrmom]

Wouldn't it be better to just buy a doll at Wal-Mart if someone wants a baby that is silent and does not move? A crib blanket is very small..maybe two feet by three feet...barely room for a baby to move and if the tip of the baby's toe extends off the blanket the mom is supposed to hit the baby? A baby can't speak and say Mommy dearest, I am hungry, so a baby cries, but Lori expects the baby to be silent ?

[calimojo]

It really makes me sick. And I think many of you are right when you say these submissive women are truly angry deep down and their poor children get the brunt of it.

Did I swat my kids? Yes, a very few times and I don't necessarily regret it, but I do recognize it was when I was losing control rather than a reasonable thought out response to a situation. But I can not ever imagine hitting an infant, or even a toddler. I probably swatted at a hand reaching for something dangerous once in awhile, but again, if my kids got into something they shouldn't have when they were 2 years old, I considered that more my failing than theirs. My job as parent is to supervise them and remove obvious dangers. Not to beat them into submission and repress any natural curiosity that they might have.

It is sickening to read that these parents had premeditation about how they would hit their children, even to the point of how they would hide it from authority figures.

I am really so angry about this, that I feel agitated.

[16strong]

Vinegar definitely wouldn't have worked with me, as I am more likely to eat a food that contains it. Pass the salt n' vinegar chips! :drool:

[moodygirl86]

What makes these people think their kids will turn out to be disasters, and be damned to eternal hell if they don't beat them, deprive them of affection, instill them with fear and self loathing, and cripple them as adults? If most people's children turn out well, without these measures, why do they believe theirs WON'T?

Because turning out well isn't good enough for fundies. They want their kids to be perfect, which is an impossible goal.

[Four is Enough]

Is that you, Mum? Mine did that to me once with vinegar, but regretted it more when she realised I loved it! !

Nope, but it did help me realize that all the answers weren't in books... :lol: