Chaviva's husband can't return to the US for months

[treemom]

I have also never seen anyone turned away at High Holy Days. In fact during the time when my mother went back to my father and our Jewish community was horrified (they did not think highly of a woman who would go back to a man who had done what he had) they knew how tight money was for my grandparents having two mouths to feed and farming in a heavy immigrant community that was mostly Catholic and Eastern Orthdox so the Jewish community was small and ignored differences that have been a big deal here...(sorry I have digressed I think my pain pills have kicked in) anyhow for years the tickets were given to us for free. Has it happened? I am sure, but I am familiar with it. And as FS points our our religion does not allow us to collect money during our services as a Christian church would.

I have admitted because if my feral childhood and my not very English speaking grandparents of the Sephardic tradition I am not well versed in many things most Jews, even ones who have distanced themselves like I have, are versed in, but I have never seen the tickets be a problem. And in my experience the community that the Jewish people foster often benefits the non Jews. Both in Memphis where I live now which has a vibrant Jewish community and resources that are used by all kinds and the area my grandparents lived.

[treemom]

Catching up on others, yes you can be homeless and Jewish. I was as a child. My homelessness was due to some mental health issues which separated my parents from their Jewish community. When everything melted down quite badly I can assure you that my grandparents community was incredibly supportive.

[nelliebelle1197]

That's really not true though. There are many posters here who will lump in all Christians all the time. Thread titles often start with " Christians offended by..." Or " Christians want to ban...."and name off something being promoted by only a very small portion of Christians. Or in a thread how often do posters say " I'm so glad I don't believe in x like Christians do?" In much stronger language.

And it's not really reasonable to say it's somehow permissible to criticize only some bizarre, over the top actions of a particular crazy blogger or ultra extremist sub-group of a particular religion --- but not all right to question a more commonly accepted stance or main-stream practice of the wider religious group. How many discussions have their been where people criticize the stance of the Catholic Hierarchy on birth-control?

Of course all faith groups need to pay the bills. And they need to raise the money from within their group. But yeah--- looking at it from the outside --- it IS shocking if members of a religious group , including their leaders, are saying it's expensive to be part of a religion. It just is.

The point about " finding a non-Jew" to do something does also sound very....odd...I had assumed that a person either hired a non-Jewish babysitter, or had a friend to trade with. But otherwise...yes, that does seem very much like the non-Jewish helper is less than.

I liked 2xx1xy1jd 's post explaining how it more typically works. But I could see how that money would be a barrier for some people in some areas to even be part of their religious community -- and from my outside perspective - that's just unfathomable, to me.

I don't know if I agree that the spririt is the same. First of all, I think most people here know when a thread is "crazy Christians eat worms because Jesus" the thread will be about a whackadoodle fundie sect and not the nice social justice Episcopalians or renegade Jesuits. Also, there are simply more different types of Christians running around perverting things than just about any other type of religion- thousands upon thousands of variations and sects. There is a variety in Islam and Judaism but not the same extent. I think Christian becomes a shorthand for whatever particular weirdness is being discussed and most, but not all, posters understand that all followers of Jesus are under discussion and guilty of worm-eating. And plenty of folks have taken offense at painting all Christians with a broad brush on here.

The issues with comments stem from a few things- antisemitic trigger words/ stereotypes were used, the article was taken out of context as it was really aimed at one particular orthodox community, differences and variances weren't acknowledged, parallels between collection plates and synagogue membership were ignored, etc. - and I understand why people are annoyed. I don't think Jews get a pass on here. There area number of threads on here including a currently active one criticizing Jewish fundies. It is all a matter of offensive language and stereotyping, neither of which are okay.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I don't know if I agree that the spririt is the same. First of all, I think most people here know when a thread is "crazy Christians eat worms because Jesus" the thread will be about a whackadoodle fundie sect and not the nice social justice Episcopalians or renegade Jesuits. Also, there are simply more different types of Christians running around perverting things than just about any other type of religion- thousands upon thousands of variations and sects. There is a variety in Islam and Judaism but not the same extent. I think Christian becomes a shorthand for whatever particular weirdness is being discussed and most, but not all, posters understand that all followers of Jesus are under discussion and guilty of worm-eating. And plenty of folks have taken offense at painting all Christians with a broad brush on here.

The issues with comments stem from a few things- antisemitic trigger words/ stereotypes were used, the article was taken out of context as it was really aimed at one particular orthodox community, differences and variances weren't acknowledged, parallels between collection plates and synagogue membership were ignored, etc. - and I understand why people are annoyed. I don't think Jews get a pass on here. There area number of threads on here including a currently active one criticizing Jewish fundies. It is all a matter of offensive language and stereotyping, neither of which are okay.

Yes.

I really don't think anyone was trying to be deliberately hateful or offensive. However, there's a REALLY nasty history of accusations against Jews involving money, leading to all sorts of persecution. Some posters may not have been aware of this, but it's a huge trigger.

It's also easy for some people to read something online that sounds really weird to them, and fill in the blanks based on their own POV and experiences if they aren't familiar with the subject. When I saw the whole bit about souls and hell, I assumed that was happening. That's much more of a Christian concept, since Judaism doesn't teach that all non-Jews go to hell or that you need to be a synagogue member to avoid hell (and actually doesn't really focus on hell that much at all).

Since there's lots of misinformation out there, though, I'm happy to clarify things and provide more information where I can.

[Mama Mia]

I can see your point nelliebellie. But I can see D. Gayle's too. I do think the language used was inflammatory and fed into negative stereotypes and made some strange assumptions .to be fair though she is often just as inflammatory when talking about any other religion :) ------but I think some of the points were applicable to a wider question than just that specific bloggers problems with that specific community.

I think the idea that you are expected to pay thousands of dollars a year to be a member of a religious group is something people might find genuinely surprising/ disturbing/ snark-worthy. . And truthfully, to me, the attitude that " well it's not like people are trying to recruit converts -- so if they really want to join they should realize it's expensive" is more than a little elitist.

I understand not every place is that expensive, and that there are ways family's in need can get help, but from the outside it does seem like an awful lot to expect regular households to come up with in order to practice their religion.

I think it should be okay to discuss things we find troubling / concerning/ surprising / awful/ wonderful / curious /about ANY religion -- whether it's one we personally participate in or not.

[SunnyAndrsn]

I'm no fan of Mormon financials either, but based on my experience I doubt they would require any money from a person in her situation, they might even pay her power bill, and the casserole brigade would be there in force. Where's the casserole brigade??? Isn't that the whole point of belonging to a group like this?

She has to buy special food, special clothes, live in some special neighborhood, send her kid to some special daycare. All the things she was complaining about three years ago, and yet she chose to do them anyway. And now she's complaining about paying her bills. Maybe the commenters were right, and you shouldn't do this if you can't afford it. I don't understand the point of making a conscious choice as a grown adult (breaking immigration policies, choosing a religion with expansive rules) and then complaining about that choice's known consequences.

The LDS ward would ONLY step up to help pay her bills if her tithe was current. This happened to by neighbor, and it was the beginning of the end for her with the LDS church. Her whole life she was taught that the church would help her when she needed it, but when she was struggling financially, couldn't pay her bills or her tithe, the LDS church told her that they couldn't help since she was behind in her tithing. This was within the past 5 years.

Casserole brigade was nowhere to be found for her either. In fact, she also lost her temple recommend and most of the church members ignored her. She felt very alone and abandoned.

[DarkAnts]

What do the Ultra Orthodox Jews do if they need a medication that is not kosher? I know there are times when it is considered ok, but would they be ok with it?

[treemom]

I think it is acceptable to find the tickets distasteful. I don't, but I do understand why some would, especially when they don't understand some of the reasons. I think it is fine to criticize Judaism. Although I identify as Jewish in a way, there are things that have led me to distance myself from the practice and belief. Because of very personal reasons, that I have hinted to (and to be honest if you really want to know PM me but I just don't want to share so publicly) my cultural ties in childhood were weak which means I am neither as knowledgeable of the faith and culture as most Jews and have a more difficult time feeling like I can represent any sort of Jewish belief except in some cases. So I don't have an issue with criticism of Jewish faith or practices. however, it's important to note that many of the words and phrases that have been used on this thread are problematic because they have been used historically to discriminate and worse against Jews.

I have problems with beliefs and even some cultural practices of Judaism, and I don't think it should be immune from criticism, but do think it should be handled more sensitively. Hell I feel nervous even writing this because I have heard it suggested in the past that Jews just can't get past things in the very recent past. But the truth is, some of the words were used as justification for the things that have been done. But the truth is, in most of the countries we post from Christianity is the dominant religion and Jews haven't been afforded much protection until the last couple of generations. It's ok for many of us to feel a bit sensitive.

(Again disclaimer, I am recovering from surgery and posting while impaired which means I am more ramble and probably even less understandable than normal. I own what I say, but please don't assume anyone else who has posed similar concerns will agree with anything I said. Also, due to number one I reserve the right to clarify at a later date if I feel like my impairment caused confusion. And really, I am super sorry if this makes no sense )

[nelliebelle1197]

I can see your point nelliebellie. But I can see D. Gayle's too. I do think the language used was inflammatory and fed into negative stereotypes and made some strange assumptions .to be fair though she is often just as inflammatory when talking about any other religion :) ------but I think some of the points were applicable to a wider question than just that specific bloggers problems with that specific community.

I think the idea that you are expected to pay thousands of dollars a year to be a member of a religious group is something people might find genuinely surprising/ disturbing/ snark-worthy. . And truthfully, to me, the attitude that " well it's not like people are trying to recruit converts -- so if they really want to join they should realize it's expensive" is more than a little elitist.

I understand not every place is that expensive, and that there are ways family's in need can get help, but from the outside it does seem like an awful lot to expect regular households to come up with in order to practice their religion.

I think it should be okay to discuss things we find troubling / concerning/ surprising / awful/ wonderful / curious /about ANY religion -- whether it's one we personally participate in or not.

I think the other point that makes a slight difference in how Judaism is approached is that it is a culture/ ethnic identity, not just a religion. My boss, for example, is Jewish. He does not believe in God, does not even remember a lot of the intricacies ( he has not been observant in literally 50 years) but he still considers himself Jewish. It is his culture and heritage. I have two coworkers, one a reformed convert and one an observant conservative, and they both consider him just as Jewish as they. I have not practiced Christianity in 25 years though I used to be near- fundie- but do not consider my heritage and ethnic identity to be Christian.

Jews are not off limits to snark and many sect deserve it as much as christian fundies, but there is a nuance to Judaism that just isn't there with most other religions that ties Jewish identity to ethnic identity that does warrant certain sensitivity.

[treemom]

Wow, I really danced around that didn't I? Jews being rich, Jews being money obsessed many of the things being said directly or hinted directly at were the words used to first deny us property and our businesses during WWII. And then eventually round us up and exterminate us. Yes, we get to be sensitive and yes we get to ask for more sensitivity than other faiths get. I know I am not the only one here who is a grandchild of a survivor.

Want to criticize the tickets or the way conversion works, fine. But try to, I don't know, not be so unbelievably offensive to us. Like I said, most of us are posting from countries who either didn't allow Jews to immigrate during that time, may have actually been fully complicit, or where unable to protect Their own citizens who were Jewish. We know the allies denied the extent of Auschwitz when presented with the Witold Potlecki report. We know that even after WWII many of our grandparents and or great grandparents were not able to return to their homes and even when offered immigration to the US were denied jobs, etc. And the people who did all that? Used that same damn language. So yeah, we get to say it is a problem. Because it is.

[treemom]

Sorry for the repeated post, I just realized I annoyed myself with my attempt to be so appeasing to some who insist it's ok to say these things and just like criticizing Christianity.

[Idolatry]

Wow, I really danced around that didn't I? Jews being rich, Jews being money obsessed many of the things being said directly or hinted directly at were the words used to first deny us property and our businesses during WWII. And then eventually round us up and exterminate us. Yes, we get to be sensitive and yes we get to ask for more sensitivity than other faiths get. I know I am not the only one here who is a grandchild of a survivor.

Want to criticize the tickets or the way conversion works, fine. But try to, I don't know, not be so unbelievably offensive to us. Like I said, most of us are posting from countries who either didn't allow Jews to immigrate during that time, may have actually been fully complicit, or where unable to protect Their own citizens who were Jewish. We know the allies denied the extent of Auschwitz when presented with the Witold Potlecki report. We know that even after WWII many of our grandparents and or great grandparents were not able to return to their homes and even when offered immigration to the US were denied jobs, etc. And the people who did all that? Used that same damn language. So yeah, we get to say it is a problem. Because it is.

You do realize we are talking about a woman from Denver who claims to have spent thousands of dollars to convert right? That's a ton of money, and even she was snarking on it after she paid it. I'm pretty sure no one in Denver is being exterminated, and she didn't even mention the tickets.

She chose one of the most expensive religions possible that requires special food, housing, daycare. We haven't even talked about the most expensive component, birth control views, which FJ criticizes in every other religion. And now she is complaining about being broke.

Please let me know what aspects of this religion I am allowed to mock without running into Godwin's Law or insulting your ancestors.

[2xx1xy1JD]

What do the Ultra Orthodox Jews do if they need a medication that is not kosher? I know there are times when it is considered ok, but would they be ok with it?

If the medication is not taken orally, or is bitter or tasteless (as most pills for adults are), it is not considered food and is therefore not a problem.

The only issue arises with good-tasting medicines, like the kind that you give to kids. Here are the common solutions:

1. Any commandment (other than murder, idolatry or adultery/incest) is suspended if there is a serious threat to life/health. For example, if your child's sore throat is definitely due to strep, we know that untreated strep can be serious and even fatal, so it's okay to give an antibiotic that has a non-kosher ingredient.

2. There are compounding pharmacies that can formulate medicines that have the active ingredient you need without possibly non-kosher non-medicinal ingredients like gelatin.

3. The medicine can be diluted, so that any prohibited substance makes up no more than 1/60th and is therefore considered to be nullified. For example, cough syrup containing glycerin can be mixed into a cup of water or juice.

4. There is generally some room for leniency if you are dealing with a child, with a sick individual, and with a prohibition that isn't a clear-cut Biblical prohibition.

[treemom]

You do realize we are talking about a woman from Denver who claims to have spent thousands of dollars to convert right? That's a ton of money, and even she was snarking on it after she paid it. I'm pretty sure no one in Denver is being exterminated, and she didn't even mention the tickets.

She chose one of the most expensive religions possible that requires special food, housing, daycare. We haven't even talked about the most expensive component, birth control views, which FJ criticizes in every other religion. And now she is complaining about being broke.

Please let me know what aspects of this religion I am allowed to mock without running into Godwin's Law or insulting your ancestors.

I wasn't talking about her at all actually. You can mock whatever you like, but I may have a problem with it, that's they way it works.m

I didn't mean to like this and I can't unlike it from tapatalk.

[2xx1xy1JD]

And this is the first time I've ever seem Judaism about really being all about money......

Sure, clergy deserve a living, but it should come from donations from congregants who can afford, not by bleeding people of money they don't have to spare or else they're going to hell.

What's important to those rabbis, converting souls, or money? If you believe not being a member means hell, then it's cruel to condemn someone to eternal fire because they don't have enough money.....

And here is where I say it: No wonder why the typical household income of the typical Jewish family is so high. You have to be rich to be Jewish, or eventually you're pushed out. That's incredibly stupid, and makes me view Judaism in the same light as Christianity. Another stupid religion with fucked-up rules that doesn't really practice what it preaches....

And that is why people think Judaism is more concerned with money. That Jewish woman just nailed it. It's the money that matters.

A membership fee? Are you fucking kidding me?!

Let me start off by saying that I heavily edited the above quote to show only the parts that I found triggering. The parts that I left out showed the context of the conversation, and yes, I do think that it's legit to question the high cost of conversion in Denver, or the cost of anything else. I've snarked here about factors that contribute to ultra-Orthodox poverty in Israel.

I'm posting this strictly to answer the question of what in particular some of us find problematic, and why. I'm not saying that any poster intended to be offensive. I am trying to educate.

There is a really nasty history associated the stereotype that Jews are all about the money, or that all Jews must be rich. Nasty as in Gestapo brutally beating people who didn't give in gold and jewels, because of course all Jews must be rich. I'm not saying that anyone here would be remotely like that. I am saying that there are legitimate reasons to fear such a stereotype being perpetuated, because it poses a very real risk of harm to real people, regardless of their personal beliefs (ie. the life of an atheist Jew can be at risk from persecution). These stereotypes caused extreme harm during the Holocaust, but they existed long before, and they haven't ceased to exist and cause harm.

[treemom]

I also don't believe any poster intended to be offensive or would support any sort of anti-semitism. Obviously others here have said what I think far better, and I appreciate that.

[saraelise]

Can I just pause to ask when antisemitism changed from being defined as racism against Semites to racism against Jewish people?

Since always. Anti-semitism was a term made up in Germany in the late 19th/early 20th century when eugenicists needed a scientifically plausible term to describe their hatred of Jews, without admitting that they just hated Jews for being Jews. The term has always been used as a more "correct" and "acceptable" form of describing hatred for Jews. It's not until more recently people have started to ascribe it to other Semitic peoples.

[treemom]

Also, I am not sure it really is a Godwin's law thing when we are actually talking about facts that are related to the Holocaust. It surely can't be Godwin's law to say Jews in the years leading up to the liquidation of Ghettos were denied the right to their own property and businesses. That is a fact. And since what we are talking about here is actually Jews it isn't like we are making an unfair comparison. Do I think anyone here is actually culpable in any way of discrimination against Jews? No. But I think it is reasonable to explain that my sensitivity to the language used is related to the fact it was used as a justification for the Holocaust.

[FaustianSlip]

Can I just pause to ask when antisemitism changed from being defined as racism against Semites to racism against Jewish people?

It never changed. The word "anti-Semitism" originates from the German antisemitisch, first used by an Austrian Jew by the name of Moritz Steinschneider, who was challenging the writings of one Ernest Renan, a Frenchman who wrote about Jews the following (which I'm sure DGayle will thoroughly enjoy):

When all nations and all ages have persecuted you, there must be some motive behind it all. The Jew, up to our own time, insinuated himself everywhere, claiming the protection of the common law; but, in reality, remaining outside the common law. He retained his own status; he wished to have the same guarantees as everyone else, and, over and above that, his own exceptions and special laws. He desired the advantages of the nations without being a nation, without helping to bear the burdens of the nations. No people has ever been able to tolerate this. The nations are military creations founded and maintained by the sword; they are the work of peasants and soldiers; towards establishing them the Jews have contributed nothing. Herein is the great fallacy inspired in Israelite pretensions. The tolerated alien can be useful to a country, but only on condition that the country does not allow itself to be invaded by him. It is not fair to claim family rights in a house which one has not built, like those birds which come and take up their quarters in a nest which does not belong to them, or like the crustaceans which steal the shell of another species.

Lovely stuff, huh? He had similarly disgusting stuff to say about other races, as well. In 1881, Wilhelm Marr first used the phrase "antisemitsmus," which directly translates to "anti-Semitism," shortly after founding the "Antisemiten-Liga," or the "League of Anti-Semites," the first German organization specifically dedicated to forcing Jews out of Germany. This came after his 1879 pamphlet titled Der Weg zum Siege des Germanenthums über das Judenthum, or The Way to Victory of Germanicism Over Judaism, in which he argued that Germans and Jews were engaged in an ages-old, racial conflict, one which the Jews were winning. He believed that a Jewish victory would result in the end of the German people, hence the Antismiten-Liga. He also helped establish the pseudo-scientific theories about the differences between the German and Jewish "races." Does any of this sound at all familiar?

In short, "anti-Semitism" has never referred to all people of Semitic origin, and has in fact always been a term specifically intended as a shorthand, more elevated way of referring to "Jew hatred." The first appearances of the English "anti-Semite" and "anti-Semitic" also occur in 1881. I'm so familiar with the word's etymology, BTW, because I've typed this out so many times in reference to the old, "Oh, well, it's impossible for [XYZ group] to be 'anti-Semitic,' anyway, because they're Semites, too, so there!" We can debate whether "anti-Semitism" continues to be the best word to use when referring specifically to a pathological hatred of Jews, but its etymology is easily researched and traces, and the entire purpose of this word's creation was to define a particular brand of bigotry directed toward Jewish people.

[Idolatry]

Also, I am not sure it really is a Godwin's law thing when we are actually talking about facts that are related to the Holocaust. It surely can't be Godwin's law to say Jews in the years leading up to the liquidation of Ghettos were denied the right to their own property and businesses. That is a fact. And since what we are talking about here is actually Jews it isn't like we are making an unfair comparison. Do I think anyone here is actually culpable in any way of discrimination against Jews? No. But I think it is reasonable to explain that my sensitivity to the language used is related to the fact it was used as a justification for the Holocaust.

Again, we are talking about modern Denver, which has no facts relevant to the Holocaust. Maybe read the thread. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong Holocaust because I have no idea how the Holocaust is like pointing out that Denver specialized schools/diets/neighborhoods are expensive.

Oppressive religions they think they can tell you what to say... If you don't want to see religion insulted, maybe FJ isn't the best place to hang out.

If you think I'm wrong and would like to actually talk about the facts at hand, that a woman in Denver picked up a very expensive hobby she likes to complain about and is now complaining about being broke because of her voluntary life choices, I would love to hear it.

[treemom]

Again, we are talking about modern Denver, which has no facts relevant to the Holocaust. Maybe read the thread. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong Holocaust because I have no idea how the Holocaust is like pointing out that Denver specialized schools/diets/neighborhoods are expensive.

Oppressive religions they think they can tell you what to say... If you don't want to see religion insulted, maybe FJ isn't the best place to hang out.

If you think I'm wrong and would like to actually talk about the facts at hand, that a woman in Denver picked up a very expensive hobby she likes to complain about and is now complaining about being broke because of her voluntary life choices, I would love to hear it.

*i* the one you are talking about is not talking about Denver. Or Chaviva. I am speaking about people in FJ who were using what I consider inflammatory language about how Jewish institutions fund themselves. I am not talking about what anyone said about Chaviva.

Insult religion all you want and I will respond when I feel like the language is inappropriate and inaccurate.

Maybe you need to read what I have said?

[Idolatry]

*i* the one you are talking about is not talking about Denver. Or Chaviva. I am speaking about people in FJ who were using what I consider inflammatory language about how Jewish institutions fund themselves. I am not talking about what anyone said about Chaviva.

Insult religion all you want and I will respond when I feel like the language is inappropriate and inaccurate.

Maybe you need to read what I have said?

You are the one who busted out the Godwin's law. I am still waiting for how my pointing out the obvious cost of these life choices is like the Holocaust. That's pretty extreme accusation to bust out without specifics. I'm still waiting for what language was inappropriate, since you view yourself as some kind of expert on what people are allowed to say.

[treemom]

I wasn't speaking to you ok? I am not sure how many times I have to say I personally was objecting to the language used in describing all Jews, not Chaviva's choices. Maybe you missed Dgayle's post?

This post highlights much of the language I objected to. viewtopic.php?t=23729#p866362

[treemom]

Also, like all of us, I get to have an opinion if I find language inappropriate or inflammatory or bigoted or whatever. I asked people not to use it and I tried to explain why it was a problem. Others like Faustin Slip and 2xx1xyjd did a much better job than I did, but I am not arguing anyone be banned or anything else. I am expressing an opinion...and that's allowed.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Again, we are talking about modern Denver, which has no facts relevant to the Holocaust. Maybe read the thread. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong Holocaust because I have no idea how the Holocaust is like pointing out that Denver specialized schools/diets/neighborhoods are expensive.

Oppressive religions they think they can tell you what to say... If you don't want to see religion insulted, maybe FJ isn't the best place to hang out.

If you think I'm wrong and would like to actually talk about the facts at hand, that a woman in Denver picked up a very expensive hobby she likes to complain about and is now complaining about being broke because of her voluntary life choices, I would love to hear it.

Did you read my post? If not, please do so because I tried to point out, very specifically, exactly what lines triggered me.

I'm not suggested that anyone intended to be offensive or hateful. I'm trying to educate and explain why these particular lines - which may have been used entirely innocently - trigger such an intense negative gut reaction.

Nobody in this thread has said that there is anything wrong with snarking on the cost of conversion in Denver, or the cost of anything else associated with Jewish observance (although I have clarified any misunderstandings or misinformation). We know it's a religion with a zillion rules, many of which we openly acknowledge lack any obvious reason.

This isn't about a religious belief being insulted. The stuff that I quoted and said was triggering wasn't about beliefs at all - it was about fueling harmful stereotypes about Jews in general, regardless of their actual beliefs. "All Jews are rich" and "Jews only care about money" are examples of harmful stereotypes. It was a harmful stereotype that caused real damage to innocent Jews prior to the Holocaust, and it is still a harmful stereotype that continues to cause actual harm. The Holocaust was simply the most extreme manifestation of anti-Jewish hatred. And yes, negative stereotypes about Jews in North America played a role in governments refusing to accept Jewish refugees, which directly led to their deaths - again, regardless of their actual religious beliefs or whether they were actually rich or poor.