Is 11 abortions too many for one guy?

[artdecades]

I don't understand pro-choice individuals who place some arbitrary restriction on how many abortions are acceptable. If abortion is acceptable, why does it matter if a person has 1, 10, or 100. I don't believe a fetus is a life, so it is no different than any other elective procedures. Yes there are medical risks involved, but that is the choice of the individual receiving the abortion.

That said, I do understand the worry with regards to STIs. Many people do not show symptoms and he could be spreading disease which then becomes a public health risk.

[jerkit]

I don't understand pro-choice individuals who place some arbitrary restriction on how many abortions are acceptable. If abortion is acceptable, why does it matter if a person has 1, 10, or 100. I don't believe a fetus is a life, so it is no different than any other elective procedures. Yes there are medical risks involved, but that is the choice of the individual receiving the abortion.

That said, I do understand the worry with regards to STIs. Many people do not show symptoms and he could be spreading disease which then becomes a public health risk.

For me, it’s not about the number of abortions, it’s about the obvious disregard for preventing pregnancy in the first place. Why would he continue to subject women to an unnecessary medical procedure when he could prevent it by using contraceptives?

[Firiel]

I do think that having indiscriminate unprotected sex is irresponsible, sure, for men and women. It's downright stupid and risky, mostly due to the risk of STI's. I'm not really buying this story, though. And I'm not judging on the amount of abortions because like it or not, some people, however small the numbers, do use them as birth control. I'm happy the option is available for everyone, irresponsible or not. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

Okay, that makes sense now. I'm pretty sure we're saying a similar thing, just emphasizing different aspects of it. :)

[Firiel]

For me, it’s not about the number of abortions, it’s about the obvious disregard for preventing pregnancy in the first place. Why would he continue to subject women to an unnecessary medical procedure when he could prevent it by using contraceptives?

QFT. Abortion is typically more expensive and more invasive than birth control. I think it's an irresponsible and not a great health decision to use abortion as a form of birth control just like I think plenty of other things are irresponsible and not great health decisions. That doesn't mean I'm going to outlaw it, but I sure will snark on it.

[ViolaSebastian]

Well that's good, but you did present it as an option. Like Eponine, I'm baffled as to how anyone could possibly see a cup as a means to prevent pregnancy. I don't even know how you could comfortably have sex with one inserted. Plus, the little inserts that come with cups clearly state they are not BC.

Unfortunately, I've seen (mostly teenagers) use a number of things that are just NOT to be used as birth control as an attempt at birth control. Plastic baggies and plastic wrap comes to mind first.

[polecat]

This may be an unpopular opinion but unless this asswipe is raping these women, they're just as responsible as he is for the unwanted pregnancies. Unless the women were using birth control and it failed every single time (which seems to be a statistical impossibility), not only were they okay with their partner not using a condom they were also okay with not using protection themselves*.

Well, since the OP was talking about the man who was chatting about his 11 abortions, I think most of us focused only on him. I didn't see anywhere where anyone said the women were any more or less responsible.

As someone who came of age when AIDS could KILL you (and let's be honest: It still can in spite of all the medical advances), I never made a move without a condom during my single days. I'm both horrified and amazed that so many people are playing fast and loose with their fertility, with their health, with their lives.

[Idolatry]

Abortions come and go but herpes is forever.

[sparkles]

Well, since the OP was talking about the man who was chatting about his 11 abortions, I think most of us focused only on him. I didn't see anywhere where anyone said the women were any more or less responsible.

As someone who came of age when AIDS could KILL you (and let's be honest: It still can in spite of all the medical advances), I never made a move without a condom during my single days. I'm both horrified and amazed that so many people are playing fast and loose with their fertility, with their health, with their lives.

I posted in response to the bolded. The end of my post, which you didn't quote, says that one way to change his behavior would be to refuse to have sex with him unless he used a condom. If that happened, he'd either get better acquainted with his hand or he'd agree to use protection. That was the focus of my response.

I will say, however, that a lot of the language I see, not only here but other places as well, seems to absolve the woman of responsibility. Too much "HE got/made her pregnant." "HE could have used contraception," and so on. No HE didn't do any of this his own. He had an apparently willing partner each time. I'm not in any way, shape or form defending him and I think that the apparent pride he takes the 11 abortions he was a party to is disgusting but I still can't condemn him for his irresponsibility without condemning his equally irresponsible partner, both of whom risk not only an unwanted pregnancy but their lives as well.

My daughter, who's 24, was raised with the firm belief that she should never rely on chance or the other party when it came to having sex, meaning protecting against conception AND STDs. She's been on BC since her late teens and, good little AIDS peer educator that she is, she also insists that her partner uses a condom as well, otherwise they ain't gettin' any. Any man that wouldn't respect that request obviously wouldn't respect her either.

[Firiel]

I posted in response to the bolded. The end of my post, which you didn't quote, says that one way to change his behavior would be to refuse to have sex with him unless he used a condom. If that happened, he'd either get better acquainted with his hand or he'd agree to use protection. That was the focus of my response.

I will say, however, that a lot of the language I see, not only here but other places as well, seems to absolve the woman of responsibility. Too much "HE got/made her pregnant." "HE could have used contraception," and so on. No HE didn't do any of this his own. He had an apparently willing partner each time. I'm not in any way, shape or form defending him and I think that the apparent pride he takes the 11 abortions he was a party to is disgusting but I still can't condemn him for his irresponsibility without condemning his equally irresponsible partner, both of whom risk not only an unwanted pregnancy but their lives as well.

My daughter, who's 24, was raised with the firm belief that she should never rely on chance or the other party when it came to having sex, meaning protecting against conception AND STDs. She's been on BC since her late teens and, good little AIDS peer educator that she is, she also insists that her partner uses a condom as well, otherwise they ain't gettin' any. Any man that wouldn't respect that request obviously wouldn't respect her either.

I do think that one distinction that can be made is that he didn't learn the contraception lesson after abortion #10. I suspect that his partners only had 1 or 2 abortions each before they learned the contraception lesson themselves.

[polecat]

I posted in response to the bolded. The end of my post, which you didn't quote, says that one way to change his behavior would be to refuse to have sex with him unless he used a condom. If that happened, he'd either get better acquainted with his hand or he'd agree to use protection. That was the focus of my response.

I will say, however, that a lot of the language I see, not only here but other places as well, seems to absolve the woman of responsibility. Too much "HE got/made her pregnant." "HE could have used contraception," and so on. No HE didn't do any of this his own. He had an apparently willing partner each time. I'm not in any way, shape or form defending him and I think that the apparent pride he takes the 11 abortions he was a party to is disgusting but I still can't condemn him for his irresponsibility without condemning his equally irresponsible partner, both of whom risk not only an unwanted pregnancy but their lives as well.

My daughter, who's 24, was raised with the firm belief that she should never rely on chance or the other party when it came to having sex, meaning protecting against conception AND STDs. She's been on BC since her late teens and, good little AIDS peer educator that she is, she also insists that her partner uses a condom as well, otherwise they ain't gettin' any. Any man that wouldn't respect that request obviously wouldn't respect her either.

I missed in the OP where you were responding only to that. My apologies for misunderstanding. (I also only quoted that one part to simplify what exactly I was responding to.)

And absolutely on the last paragraph (and double absolutely to the last sentence). I find the numbers of people who choose (emphasis on CHOOSE) to have sex without any protection at all to be utterly mind-boggling.

[ILoveJellybeans]

That isn't something to be proud of. I think he needs a lesson in safe sex before he makes a 12th or passes on worse things than an unplanned pregnancy.

[Toothfairy]

But babyyyyy, it doesn't feel as good. C'mon you trust me right? It's fineeeee. I promise it's ok, I'll totally pull out....

Or if you love me you will let me feel all of you inside me :roll:

Are some people missing common sense

[Toothfairy]

Obviously this guy wants attention and thinks it's cool because it isn't his body. He isn't go through an abortion or carrying a child. Funny we tell kids not to do this type of thing, but adults are doing this

[Toothfairy]

I don't understand pro-choice individuals who place some arbitrary restriction on how many abortions are acceptable. If abortion is acceptable, why does it matter if a person has 1, 10, or 100. I don't believe a fetus is a life, so it is no different than any other elective procedures. Yes there are medical risks involved, but that is the choice of the individual receiving the abortion.

That said, I do understand the worry with regards to STIs. Many people do not show symptoms and he could be spreading disease which then becomes a public health risk.

I don't care if people have 1 or 100 abortions, however women should know that have too many abortions it can cause problems later in life. Abortion shouldn't be used as birth control when there are other kinds of birth control available

[mostlylurk]

I wonder if this guy is confusing Plan B and abortion. So maybe there were 11 instances where the condom broke or slipped off, or he thought he was going to pull out and didn't, etc.

[Firiel]

I wonder if this guy is confusing Plan B and abortion. So maybe there were 11 instances where the condom broke or slipped off, or he thought he was going to pull out and didn't, etc.

I sure hope so!

[BrownieMomma]

Perhaps he was confusing the two but I rather think not considering the original premise was sterilizing those who had more than X number of abortions.

I've no idea how realistic it is for him to find that many partners who are unaware of his prior history. I don't know how long he's been sexually active but if he is mid-20's it realistically could be ten years or more.

The more I think about it, the more I think he is a yucky guy. Yep I'm passing judgment on his 11 abortions.

[DGayle]

I'll lay money on the bet he is one of those who doesn't like the "feel" of condoms. Contraception is women's work.

Yep. So offer him a free snip.

[lilith]

I don't care if people have 1 or 100 abortions, however women should know that have too many abortions it can cause problems later in life. Abortion shouldn't be used as birth control when there are other kinds of birth control available

What problems, exactly, do first trimester abortions provided by a qualified practitioner cause in later life?

[Palimpsest]

What problems, exactly, do first trimester abortions provided by a qualified practitioner cause in later life?

I'm not the person you asked, and I think the literature at the moment suggests none -- after a single surgical abortion. There is a whole lot of pro- life misinformation out there, of course. This article debunks most of it. http://www.glowm.com/section_view/headi ... n/item/440

However, I think the OP was referring to multiple abortions. IIRC, there is a seemingly reputable Scandinavian (possibly Finnish) study that suggests there is an increased risk of long-term health effects (one being breast cancer), secondary infertility, and complicated pregnancies after multiple surgical abortions. Multiple being defined as 3 or more abortions. As the first article I linked points out, it is really hard to prove causation and/or that these issues wouldn't also exist with spontaneous miscarriages. There are probably a lot more studies out there too, but sorting the objective wheat from the pro-life chaff is really difficult for lay people like me.

[Firiel]

I'm not the person you asked, and I think the literature at the moment suggests none -- after a single surgical abortion. There is a whole lot of pro- life misinformation out there, of course. This article debunks most of it. http://www.glowm.com/section_view/headi ... n/item/440

However, I think the OP was referring to multiple abortions. IIRC, there is a seemingly reputable Scandinavian (possibly Finnish) study that suggests there is an increased risk of long-term health effects (one being breast cancer), secondary infertility, and complicated pregnancies after multiple surgical abortions. Multiple being defined as 3 or more abortions. As the first article I linked points out, it is really hard to prove causation and/or that these issues wouldn't also exist with spontaneous miscarriages. There are probably a lot more studies out there too, but sorting the objective wheat from the pro-life chaff is really difficult for lay people like me.

And there is also the fact that an abortion, as a medical procedure, carries inherent risks for complications. Of course, the risk of an early abortion causing issues is less than the risk of carrying a child to term and delivering. But it's still more than not getting pregnant in the first place. More abortions would mean more chances for complications.

I also think that any discussion of side effects/consequences needs to be considered in light of this fact: For the man in question, there are no medical side effects whatsoever, being that he has never been pregnant nor had an abortion. He is wearing the (obtrusive at best and scary/painful at worst) experiences of others as a political badge for himself. Therefore, he earns my Appropriation Asshat award of the day.

[DGayle]

I do think that having indiscriminate unprotected sex is irresponsible, sure, for men and women. It's downright stupid and risky, mostly due to the risk of STI's. I'm not really buying this story, though. And I'm not judging on the amount of abortions because like it or not, some people, however small the numbers, do use them as birth control. I'm happy the option is available for everyone, irresponsible or not. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

It's irresponsible. It sounds like his idea of birth control is find women to go bareback, and hope that they'll pay to get an abortion. What's he doing on his end to prevent these unwanted pregnancies? Nothing. This doesn't mean the women aren't also being irresponsible (I wouldn't buy the claim that these are all BC-failures), but he's definitely not being responsible here.

Women who frequently use surgical procedures as birth control are one thing. They're taking the risk. This guy is banking on someone else taking the risk so he can skip the rubber.

[DGayle]

I don't understand pro-choice individuals who place some arbitrary restriction on how many abortions are acceptable. If abortion is acceptable, why does it matter if a person has 1, 10, or 100. I don't believe a fetus is a life, so it is no different than any other elective procedures. Yes there are medical risks involved, but that is the choice of the individual receiving the abortion.

That said, I do understand the worry with regards to STIs. Many people do not show symptoms and he could be spreading disease which then becomes a public health risk.

I don't think it's an arbitrary number. What it is is this guy's plan is to have the bareback sex he wants, and stick someone else with the risks that come with abortions, and he's nonchalant about it. It's not like he's the one having to go have an abortion done. Other people are paying the price. He gets the condomless sex, and someone else has to clean up the mess. He's not taking responsibility on his end to help prevent his partners from being in a position of having to go have an abortion. His attitude is problematic.

[DGayle]

Perhaps he was confusing the two but I rather think not considering the original premise was sterilizing those who had more than X number of abortions.

I've no idea how realistic it is for him to find that many partners who are unaware of his prior history. I don't know how long he's been sexually active but if he is mid-20's it realistically could be ten years or more.

The more I think about it, the more I think he is a yucky guy. Yep I'm passing judgment on his 11 abortions.

I agree. Having the freedom to do something doesn't mean someone is free from being judged by others for what someone chooses to do with the freedom.

I do think it's extremely selfish of him to repeatedly get into a position of other people having to pay money and take medical risks while he gets to walk off into the sunset. If he cared at all about his partners, he'd give a damn about how they'll be the ones having to go to a clinic and go through discomfort and maybe pain, and he'd try to lessen the chance. He's the sort of guy who, if a woman decides to keep the baby, would probably bail, since what happens after he's gotten off is someone else's job to deal with.

[Coco]

I find this fascinating. How in the world would anyone think a menstrual cup would provide effective birth control? The suction seal of the cup definitely does NOT continue to work once you start having sex with it in.

ouch.

kids need sex ed and free condoms.