Is 11 abortions too many for one guy?

[BrownieMomma]

A huge abortion debate popped up on FB last night, mainly it was two guys arguing for and against.

The guy arguing for is someone I know. The other guy seems to be a good friend of his. Both are mid-20's.

The other guy is hotly defending the 11 abortions he's fathered. How do you describe the father in an abortion situation? How do you state this? He's responsible for 11 abortions? He participated in 11 abortions? Neither of those is accurate.

He's not ready to be a father, he says. He likes his fun. He didn't say how many females have had these abortions. He wears these abortions like a badge of honor, no humility, no regret.

The original post was something about if you have more than X number of abortions you should be sterilized.

Geez, it does make you start to think a guy like this should be sterilized. Sheesh.

[Idolatry]

Have fun with super-gonorrhea, which will someday take the fertility of the woman you do actually want to have a child with.

Also, your friends are nasty. Unsubscribe.

[Childless]

He shouldn't be sterilized, but he should be taught how to use a condom.

[lawfulevil]

Sounds like he, and the world, is lucky all his 'friends' were pro-choice. 11 abortions beats the pants off 11 children fathered by a selfish loser.

[jerkit]

I guess I just don't understand why he's having sex without any regard to contraception.

[Arete]

He shouldn't be sterilized, but he should be taught how to use a condom.

I'll lay money on the bet he is one of those who doesn't like the "feel" of condoms. Contraception is women's work.

[polecat]

You'd think he'd have learned how to use a condom at some point during all those abortions.

[Grimalkin]

My heartburn is flaring up, reading this. Forget contraception does he not worry about diseases? And if his partners know him well enough to know about his abortions do they not worry?

I had very little, next to none, sex Ed and I was scared shitless about VD- more than pregnancy I must admit.

[Emme]

You'd think he'd have learned how to use a condom at some point during all those abortions.

But babyyyyy, it doesn't feel as good. C'mon you trust me right? It's fineeeee. I promise it's ok, I'll totally pull out....

[BrownieMomma]

I'm just flabbergasted about the whole thing. I really have no idea how to reach a guy like that to convince him to change his behavior.

[bea]

I'm going to guess he's lying. Abortions are painful and expensive. I don't care if he's Jesus Christ with a solid gold ten inch cock, 11 women are not going to go without birth control or have birth control failures with a twenty-something year old old guy.

I had a friend who really did not want kids. After one slip-up that resulted in the woman having an abortion, he had a vasectomy at 35. Like a sensible person.

[sparkles]

I'm just flabbergasted about the whole thing. I really have no idea how to reach a guy like that to convince him to change his behavior.

This may be an unpopular opinion but unless this asswipe is raping these women, they're just as responsible as he is for the unwanted pregnancies. Unless the women were using birth control and it failed every single time (which seems to be a statistical impossibility), not only were they okay with their partner not using a condom they were also okay with not using protection themselves*. There's plenty of irresponsible behavior to go around here. It's up to BOTH parties to prevent an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy, not one or the other. BOTH. So one way to get this guy to change his behavior would be if the women he wants to have sex with refused unless he used a condom. Sorry, I can't blame one party and completely absolve the other.

* If they couldn't afford BC then they still had the ability to refuse to consent to unprotected sex, which costs nothing.

[Firiel]

I'm going to guess he's lying. Abortions are painful and expensive. I don't care if he's Jesus Christ with a solid gold ten inch cock, 11 women are not going to go without birth control or have birth control failures with a twenty-something year old old guy.

I had a friend who really did not want kids. After one slip-up that resulted in the woman having an abortion, he had a vasectomy at 35. Like a sensible person.

I hope he's lying. I can't imagine someone caring so little about his sexual partners that he wears their abortions as a badge of pride for himself. Arrogant fuck.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I've never had an abortion, but when I had my IUD put it (which I imagine is someone similar in scope to a very early surgical abortion?), it wasn't just "no big deal." I mean, in one way, it was. I was in and out quickly. But I was kind of scared (with good reason, I think... though rare, there are fairly serious complications that can occur). And it was REALLY painful for me. I almost passed out afterwards (it's a tendency of mine), and they had to monitor my heart rate and blood pressure for a few minutes before they would allow me to leave. I was very glad that my boyfriend was waiting for me in the other room and very glad I wasn't going to have to go through that whole thing again.

[Firiel]

This may be an unpopular opinion but unless this asswipe is raping these women, they're just as responsible as he is for the unwanted pregnancies. Unless the women were using birth control and it failed every single time (which seems to be a statistical impossibility), not only were they okay with their partner not using a condom they were also okay with not using protection themselves*. There's plenty of irresponsible behavior to go around here. It's up to BOTH parties to prevent an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy, not one or the other. BOTH. So one way to get this guy to change his behavior would be if the women he wants to have sex with refused unless he used a condom. Sorry, I can't blame one party and completely absolve the other.

* If they couldn't afford BC then they still had the ability to refuse to consent to unprotected sex, which costs nothing.

I do agree with this. The women are at fault for not using protection as well (unless, as you said, he was coercing or raping them). But the women probably haven't had 11 abortions apiece. They probably got one and realized abortions sucked way more than condoms. I suspect we would be having a similar conversation about responsibility were we to hear about a woman who had had 5-10 abortions.

[Four is Enough]

No matter the number of women; this guy has a serious axe to grind. An abortion is a medical procedure and there are inherent risks involved. He could easily have insisted upon wearing a condom himself, having the woman wear a diaphragm or diva cup, or other forms of birth control that would be less invasive and risky than an abortion. If I knew his penchant for abortions, I certainly would not go near his dick. Not without a pair of gelding shears.

ETA: I completely agree that both partners are equally responsible for the birth control; I hope he wasn't saying one thing, getting them pregnant, then doing another... insisting on the abortion.

[Grimalkin]

I dont understand why he is not worried about VD.

[Green Glass]

Does he have any children? What does he think is going to happen if he gets yet another woman pregnant and she wants to keep it? I wonder if that would maybe make him use a fucking rubber.

Sadly, it probably wouldn't.

[BrownieMomma]

I hope the guy is lying and yanking the chain of the OP. No matter how immature or selfish, even if he's been sexually active for ten or more years, that's about an abortion a year. At some point you would think it would have some kind of affect on him but then again, I guess he could just be a user extraordinaire.

He genuinely seemed to have no issues with causing multiple pregnancies and quite fine with them aborting. I don't know if any children have been born but I'm guessing he would say so if they had.

It's the longest FB convo I've ever seen. 119 posts, I had to keep clicking to get them all to open.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I feel like I need a lot more information. This is just bizarre. But I don't judge women on numbers of abortions so I'm certainly not going to judge this guy with no facts to go on.

He could easily have insisted upon wearing a condom himself, having the woman wear a diaphragm or diva cup, or other forms of birth control that would be less invasive and risky than an abortion.

The Diva Cup is a mentrual cup and is absolutely NOT to be used as birth control.

[Firiel]

I feel like I need a lot more information. This is just bizarre. But I don't judge women on numbers of abortions so I'm certainly not going to judge this guy with no facts to go on.

I'll totally judge him as irresponsible, assuming he's not lying to jerk chains, in which case I'd judge him as a liar. I admit it's theoretically possible that all those pregnancies were either the result of a woman lying about being on birth control or of bizarre birth control failures, but the odds of that are astronomical. In fact, assuming ten years of sexual activity, even with "typical use" of condoms, (18 women out of 100 getting pregnant each year), we're talking Ken Alexander-esque odds that it's just a freak accidents that his super-sperm infiltrated their way through condoms (my crappy phone calculator ran out of space after nine "years" at .000002% chance).

So yeah, he's irresponsible.

[samurai_sarah]

This may be an unpopular opinion but unless this asswipe is raping these women, they're just as responsible as he is for the unwanted pregnancies. Unless the women were using birth control and it failed every single time (which seems to be a statistical impossibility), not only were they okay with their partner not using a condom they were also okay with not using protection themselves*. There's plenty of irresponsible behavior to go around here. It's up to BOTH parties to prevent an unwanted or unplanned pregnancy, not one or the other. BOTH. So one way to get this guy to change his behavior would be if the women he wants to have sex with refused unless he used a condom. Sorry, I can't blame one party and completely absolve the other.

* If they couldn't afford BC then they still had the ability to refuse to consent to unprotected sex, which costs nothing.

I agree with you, Sparkles, to an extent. Sadly, the onus for BC is on women. Women get shamed for getting the pill, carrying condoms etc. The way I see it, it isn't about one party or the other, but both parties knowing that a child might happen. Both parties should do whatever they can to protect themselves. Protection should be a shared effort.

[Four is Enough]

The Diva Cup is a mentrual cup and is absolutely NOT to be used as birth control.

I'm aware of it, but I know people who still use it for "other" reasons.

[FreeHannie!]

He sounds like an irresponsible idiot (has he ever heard of a condom?) but I don't have a 'cap' on how many abortions is 'acceptable' or anything because pro choice means pro choice.

[Eponine]

I'm aware of it, but I know people who still use it for "other" reasons.

I find this fascinating. How in the world would anyone think a menstrual cup would provide effective birth control? The suction seal of the cup definitely does NOT continue to work once you start having sex with it in.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I'll totally judge him as irresponsible, assuming he's not lying to jerk chains, in which case I'd judge him as a liar. I admit it's theoretically possible that all those pregnancies were either the result of a woman lying about being on birth control or of bizarre birth control failures, but the odds of that are astronomical. In fact, assuming ten years of sexual activity, even with "typical use" of condoms, (18 women out of 100 getting pregnant each year), we're talking Ken Alexander-esque odds that it's just a freak accidents that his super-sperm infiltrated their way through condoms (my crappy phone calculator ran out of space after nine "years" at .000002% chance).

So yeah, he's irresponsible.

I do think that having indiscriminate unprotected sex is irresponsible, sure, for men and women. It's downright stupid and risky, mostly due to the risk of STI's. I'm not really buying this story, though. And I'm not judging on the amount of abortions because like it or not, some people, however small the numbers, do use them as birth control. I'm happy the option is available for everyone, irresponsible or not. I guess that's what I'm trying to say.

I'm aware of it, but I know people who still use it for "other" reasons.

Well that's good, but you did present it as an option. Like Eponine, I'm baffled as to how anyone could possibly see a cup as a means to prevent pregnancy. I don't even know how you could comfortably have sex with one inserted. Plus, the little inserts that come with cups clearly state they are not BC.