Shraders in Zambia - Welcome to Poisonwood, Stephen- Part 3

[formergothardite]

There seems to be rules about not identifying those that post here under secret code names, why is it ok to go after shraders, or duggars, or whoever else by name while never revealing who you are??

Because the Duggars and Shraders make their information public, while the rest of us don't. I have no idea who you really are and if I did I would not be allowed to publically post your name because you have not made it public.

It does not reflect well on John that he wants to control who his friends talk to. I'm curious, did you ever bring up the car seat and fan issue with him or him snapping pictures while speeding down the highway in bad weather? I'm wondering how he would react when confronted with putting his children's lives in danger so he could get a good picture for FB. It is easy to say children are a blessing, it is harder to treat them that way. John says it, but his actions don't. You claim his kids are well taken care of, but when was the last time they had a dentist appointment? Had their vision checked? The last time they went to the doctor for a well check up(especially the small ones)? Are they getting a good enough education that any of them(including the girls) who want to go to college can? When you can honestly answer these questions and show that John is providing his children with proper medical care and a good education then I will start to think he isn't a bad father. But even if he is doing all this, he is still an idiot for going to Zambia with no skills to try and convert Christians to being Christians.

It was a used car and he tells you when you buy it "if you breaks in half on the way home, you own two halves".

You have just made the Duggars look like shittier people than I thought they were. :pink-shock:

[shraderfriend]

Just a couple things. It was not that "the Duggars were nice", it was that they tried to take care of the problems. The mold was from the house sitting for a few months in the damp climate. It was not a big deal. I have had plenty of landlords that would have said to suck it up and deal with it. The Grandma Duggar did not do that.

As for, "It was a used car and he tells you when you buy it "if you breaks in half on the way home, you own two halves". That is an old joke that car dealerships use. He did it and we did it when I worked at a Kia Dealership for a short time a while back. I only said that to show that I was buying an older used car and they are typically "As is". Josh had the issues fixed, again many other car dealers would not do the same.

And as for John, I think he was well within his rights to tell me how he felt. I chose to disengage in the conversation.

I have a facebook account although I rarely use it. Would that make me public if you happened across it? Johns does not seem to be any more public than most missionaries. It seems that they only reason you latched on to him was because he married a Keller and you linked him to Duggars which he doesnt even know other than meeting Josh one time I think. I had not idea that Esther was related to Anna until i read it here several months ago. It is not like he is advertising it to the public so that he can go to Africa on famous coat tails. Most of the info you all have, had to be dug up. It may not have been deep digging, but it was not just because he was telling the world that he has a connection to famous people. If his wife was not related to Anna and Anna was not married to a Duggar, you would not care about John or his family in Africa even if all of the other circumstances were the same. I feel you have made him a public figure. I do not know John very close, but knew of him through others from our time in Oregon. When I went to look him up to see how deputation was going several months ago this site was the top on that came up, not his.

[treemom]

So for attempting in the weakest way possible to follow the law we should applaud them?

[anjulibai]

So what is going on with the plane?

[formergothardite]

So you purposely lied to make the Duggars look bad when you first came here just to get a reaction and then took months to come back and clear up that you lied? Or was it not a lie and they really were as bad as you originally made them seem?

Actually, we discuss all sorts of lazy missionaries who are not related to the Duggars. We are currently discussing a missionary who has crammed his kids in an RV to go on deputation. These people actually make John look slightly better because at least John didn't put his babies in a literal cage like this family. And John's children don't look like they are on the brink of starvation.

No, it would still be against the rules to out your real name if I discovered your FB page because you have not made the connection public.

So did you talk to John about how he put his children and other drivers in danger so he could snap pictures to place on FB? It is very telling which questions you avoid.

[Miggy]

John travelled around asking people who were strangers to pay for his mission to Zambia. He kept his Facebook public. I call that living in the public eye.

If I were to go to Africa, I would go under the banner of the UN, UNICEF or Medicins San Frontiers. I would not publish my life for strangers to earn my trip.

It's a choice you make. If you go public with your life, people are going to discuss it. Some will love you. Some will hate you. Deal with it.

*I'm not suggesting that John should have gone with a major international organisation instead of as a small Christian minister. Only that by doing it this way, he has to put his life out in public. There were ways he could still have worked in the poor areas of Africa without making his life public.

[formergothardite]

I went back to read what he originally wrote about the Duggar house. He was saying that Josh and Anna lived in a house with mold and peeling paint so they were not caring for the safety of their children that much. He wrote this:

If you look on some episodes you can see where they paint is peeling in the bedrooms near the ceiling, where a lot of the mold forms.

So now he is claiming that was all a lie and the mold was only there because it sat empty for a few months. :snooty:

He wrote this about the car:

The car I bought from Josh was the same way. It broke the day I got it, fortunately he did help get it "fixed" long enough for me to trade it to another dealer.

Notice that fix is in quotes which means that Josh didn't really fix it and SF had to quickly trade it to another dealer because it was worthless. Was that a lie too? Did Josh actually fix it for real and you put it in quotes just to get a reaction? If what you originally said was all lies and exaggerations to see how we would react, then the Duggars should rightfully be upset with you for starting such rumors. I am pretty sure that I have seen what you said about the Duggars brought up on other threads as example of how the Duggars are bad business owners.

But what is really interesting to me is that John read what you posted here, told you to stop posting, but did not tell you to immediately go and fix the lies you told about his wife's family. He seems to care more about make sure you don't discuss his poor treatment of his children than he does about you lying about Esther's family.

Honestly, you have made the Duggars, John and yourself look considerable worse. "Good Christian Values" apparently means selling junk cars, renting a house filled with mold and waiting till the renters complain to fix it, exaggerating the truth on the internet to get a reaction, and, for John, caring more about what is said about himself than about his friend spreading rumors about his in-laws.

I'll keep my godless values, thank you very much.

[Curious]

Wow a new thread all for John. Today is the first time I have looked on here since signing off several months ago. John did not seem to like me wanting to "have a dialogue" with you all so I agreed to not really continue. This is his families life you are all talking about and so I understand why it is not really my place. I do have one question for you all though. There seems to be rules about not identifying those that post here under secret code names, why is it ok to go after shraders, or duggars, or whoever else by name while never revealing who you are?? That seems a bit unfair. Anyway I did want to clarify one thing I never did the last time I was on here. I just read through the zillions of pages about John on here and saw my old posts and realized I never tied up my thoughts.

Ken is that you? :wink-kitty:

[church_of_dog]

It was a used car and he tells you when you buy it "if you breaks in half on the way home, you own two halves".

Reminds me of this scene from Breaking Away, one of my favorite movies:

[bBvideo 560,340:20su9nan]

[/bBvideo]

[formergothardite]

Ken is that you? :wink-kitty:

At least Ken used his real name when signing up and then complaining about how no one uses their real name here. I rather doubt SF was named Shrader Friend at birth. :lol: I suspect it might be one of those secret code names. :shifty-kitty:

But what we have learned is that the Duggars are landlords who will rent out mold filled homes to families with small children and Josh sold crappy cars.

[Curious]

When I went to look him up to see how deputation was going several months ago this site was the top on that came up, not his.

It's hardly our fault that we (or I) spend more time on on SEO than John does. It's not our fault that people don't understand how the internet works and we do.

Frankly, I'd be embarrassed to find that out because it means I'm not doing part of my job properly. In my case, however it means I am, so yay me ;)

[church_of_dog]

I had not idea that Esther was related to Anna until i read it here several months ago.

Wait, are you saying that you know John and Esther personally, and you rented a house from the Duggars, and that you didn't know at that time than Anna and Esther are sisters? So you just thought these were two unrelated families?

:think: :think: :think:

[Curious]

At least Ken used his real name when signing up and then complaining about how no one uses their real name here. I rather doubt SF was named Shrader Friend at birth. :lol: I suspect it might be one of those secret code names. :shifty-kitty:

But what we have learned is that the Duggars are landlords who will rent out mold filled homes to families with small children and Josh sold crappy cars.

I thought about that after I posted, but I was so struck by the similarities in arguments that all I could think was that he was Ken's doppleganger.

Another thing I "love." When folks come here and think that we only talk about their friend or a tiny selection of people. They do not realize we are equal opportunity.

Shraderfriend, I suggest you take a look at this link for just a small selection of what we talk about here: viewforum.php?f=166 We just happen to have an ongoing thread about John. If you notice it says Part 3. Basically, that means he's not exciting enough to have a bunch of individual threads, we just lump all talk about him into one big thread.

Do you think they call them "super seckret code names" because it sounds more nefarious than pseudonyms or because they don't know the word pseudonym?

[formergothardite]

We aren't the only people who talk about John either. I know that there is at least one FB group that snarks on him and I wouldn't be surprised if there are other places.

I wonder what really prompted him to come and try to "fix" all the things he said about Josh and the Duggars. I have found that when people start trying to change a story that the first version of the story is usually the closest to the truth.

[Curious]

We aren't the only people who talk about John either. I know that there is at least one FB group that snarks on him and I wouldn't be surprised if there are other places.

I wonder what really prompted him to come and try to "fix" all the things he said about Josh and the Duggars. I have found that when people start trying to change a story that the first version of the story is usually the closest to the truth.

Particularly MONTHS after the fact. I'm not positive because I don't routinely memorize when people last logged in, but I'm pretty sure he hasn't logged in since August. He could have been reading without logging in, of course.

Maybe John has something big coming up and decided to send him in as a distraction?

[formergothardite]

I was wondering if a Duggar found out about what he said about them.

"Josh Duggar Sold Junk Cars" or "Former Tenant Claims Duggars Rented Out Mold Filled House" are not headlines that they need right now.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I can't make sense of "I made it sound worse to see what you all would say." In case you haven't noticed, the Duggars are not held in high esteem around here already. Not to mention, that conversation is long in the past so all SF did was bring it back into the spotlight.

Also, seriously, there are millions of forums all over the web where people post anonymously. It's not a unique concept by any means. SF, in case you haven't noticed, you are an anonymous member of FJ yourself. It will stay that way unless you decide to announce your identity.

[It'sFunToRun]

Shraderfriend, please bear no malice for the brazenness of some of the posters here. They know not what they do. :naughty:

Anyhoo, don't go! I have some questions for you: what kind of secret meetings and conventions do you fundies go to, and what goes on during them? Do they ever discuss abuse? How do you punish your children? What happens if your wife disagrees with you? Who do you think is going to hell (Jews, Catholics, etc)? What kinds of sex are you allowed to have (anal, etc)? Did you get an invitation to Jessa Duggar's wedding?

What does this smiley make you think of? :fsm: Do you know what it is?

[GeoBQn]

I'll never understand fundies whining about how we talk about them "behind fake names." The Internet has been a known thing for about 20 years. Screen names have been part of the Internet experience from the beginning. They are used on forums to talk about everything from TV to fundies to curling. There is absolutely nothing sinister behind it.

[shraderfriend]

Wait, are you saying that you know John and Esther personally, and you rented a house from the Duggars, and that you didn't know at that time than Anna and Esther are sisters? So you just thought these were two unrelated families?

:think: :think: :think:

Actually yes, It was probably back in February or so of this year that I saw this board, maybe a little later. I will clarify, I know and speak to John, but have never spoken to Esther. I only know her through what they write or on the videos. I never knew her maiden name and it never occured to me that she was sisters with Anna. When I read it online I called and asked him if they were sisters and he said yes. It was a complete surprise to me because I John is so anti ATI.

[shraderfriend]

I was wondering if a Duggar found out about what he said about them.

"Josh Duggar Sold Junk Cars" or "Former Tenant Claims Duggars Rented Out Mold Filled House" are not headlines that they need right now.

I have no idea. I have not talked to any Duggars since we left arkansas. I would hardly say that a couple spots is "mold filled". Or that "junk cars" were sold.

[It'sFunToRun]

I'll never understand fundies whining about how we talk about them "behind fake names." The Internet has been a known thing for about 20 years. Screen names have been part of the Internet experience from the beginning. They are used on forums to talk about everything from TV to fundies to curling. There is absolutely nothing sinister behind it.

When I started on FJ, I was a lot more paranoid about not giving any personal information, so I was even careful to disguise my gender and not say anything that would let on that I'm female, and then people were talking about me and referring to me as "she", and I was like "why do they think that?", then I figured out that everyone on FJ is a girl, even the people with male or neutral sounding user names. For like the first month or so, I had assumed that about half the people were male :lol:

[shraderfriend]

I went back to read what he originally wrote about the Duggar house. He was saying that Josh and Anna lived in a house with mold and peeling paint so they were not caring for the safety of their children that much. He wrote this:

So now he is claiming that was all a lie and the mold was only there because it sat empty for a few months. :snooty:

He wrote this about the car:

Notice that fix is in quotes which means that Josh didn't really fix it and SF had to quickly trade it to another dealer because it was worthless. Was that a lie too? Did Josh actually fix it for real and you put it in quotes just to get a reaction? If what you originally said was all lies and exaggerations to see how we would react, then the Duggars should rightfully be upset with you for starting such rumors. I am pretty sure that I have seen what you said about the Duggars brought up on other threads as example of how the Duggars are bad business owners.

But what is really interesting to me is that John read what you posted here, told you to stop posting, but did not tell you to immediately go and fix the lies you told about his wife's family. He seems to care more about make sure you don't discuss his poor treatment of his children than he does about you lying about Esther's family.

Honestly, you have made the Duggars, John and yourself look considerable worse. "Good Christian Values" apparently means selling junk cars, renting a house filled with mold and waiting till the renters complain to fix it, exaggerating the truth on the internet to get a reaction, and, for John, caring more about what is said about himself than about his friend spreading rumors about his in-laws.

I'll keep my godless values, thank you very much.

The problems were fixed. I traded it with an issue that I found later. I thought it had a bad wheel bearing and am not a mechanic in any sense. I traded it for another vehicle that worked well for me. Good news for the guy who got mine is that it turned out to just needs some tires.

I got the reaction I expected. You guys have no idea what you are talking about. You have your own presuppositions from your own world view and want desperately to paint all of these people into your own image to meet your prejudices. Then you can attack!

As to why I am back to clarify. I thought I did it before I left the forum. When I came back to read the other day I saw it was not there other than a small post saying they were "good people" that did not have much time. My original thought was that an administrator here had deleted the post I know I typed out, in order make me look like I was throwing them under the bus. I was going to get back on the complain about that. But it is just as likely that I just did not hit submit although I still do not doubt that it could have been FJ that removed it. I am willing to assume that I made the mistake because I have done that before. It just came down to me reading the thread and had an "oh no" feeling that I left it that way for so long.

[formergothardite]

So just to get this clear, you lied about the Duggars just to get a reaction? And John told you to stop posting here, but never told you to go clear up the lies you were spreading about his distant family? With friends like this the Duggars should not view us as the enemy.

So, where is that plane?

Did you read the Poisonwood Bible?

ETA: And the Duggars still are the sorts of people who will rent out a house with mold(did it actually have peeling paint like you claimed or is this another lie of yours) and only fix it when asked. My husband is friends with several landlords who are not Christian and if a house has mold they fix it before allowing people to move in.

[longtimelurker6]

My original thought was that an administrator here had deleted the post I know I typed out, in order make me look like I was throwing them under the bus. I was going to get back on the complain about that. But it is just as likely that I just did not hit submit although I still do not doubt that it could have been FJ that removed it. I am willing to assume that I made the mistake because I have done that before.

I don't understand. Why are you making a serious accusation of someone else deliberately doing you wrong, if you really believe it very likely that you accidentally did yourself wrong?

It doesn't seem very sensible.