Shraders in Zambia - Welcome to Poisonwood, Stephen- Part 3

[Coco]

Amen to all the posts about printer/copier service problems. And they're sensitive to dust, right? At least, mine is. It's just a cheap one but still has its bad days. And it's got marker-type color cartridges -- if it's not shut down properly they dry out. I can't imagine trying to use it on an iffy power grid. That Shrader one is like a computer. It's going to conk out in a month, no doubt. :lol: I feel so bad for Esther. What a mess.

eta do they have a generator? because jeez that seems like more of a priority with small children to care for. :roll:

[scc12]

About the free food: I always, bring my college students treats on the days that I give tests and quizzes and I straight-up tell them that it's so they won't hate me for testing them. :D

I imagine it helps with their concentration,too.I've never had an instructor do that.you're such a nice person :)

[scc12]

What I don't get, with both him and the Rodriquezes, is WHY the need for a huge, bulky, unweidly, expensive, space sucking printer??? Why don't they just hook up a normal printer to their laptop? Some of them, for about $100 -200 will do a large number of copies quickly, plus scan, etc.

That would seem to make so much more sense! I could see if they were in a spot where they had permanent roots and lots of space and spare money, that maybe investing in a printer might, maybe, be a good idea....but that is not the situation either of them is in. Just WHY?

Yes,fundies just have money to burn,don't they? That's why I would never help fund this monstrous adventure.It's so ill done and 6K + could have been used so much more wisely for other things.

[freealljs]

Sorry, a bit late on the Shrader shindig, but why didn't they just buy a printer in Zambia? They have internet for John to post and send emails for more money, so the country isn't living in the dark ages, so why in the world would he not even consider that he could buy a printer in Zambia? Or better yet, why not hire local printing office to do the work?

A question: does anyone know how long this family plan on being in Zambia? Because most visitors can only stay a maximum of 90 days at a time.

Final question: Why don't they just send their kids to a school there or hire a tutor (again, hiring locals and giving them money instead of useless paper tracts), to give the mother a break? With most of the $6k, he could hire a tutor or put those kids in really good schools, and still have enough for printing.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

Sorry, a bit late on the Shrader shindig, but why didn't they just buy a printer in Zambia? They have internet for John to post and send emails for more money, so the country isn't living in the dark ages, so why in the world would he not even consider that he could buy a printer in Zambia? Or better yet, why not hire local printing office to do the work?

A question: does anyone know how long this family plan on being in Zambia? Because most visitors can only stay a maximum of 90 days at a time.

Final question: Why don't they just send their kids to a school there or hire a tutor (again, hiring locals and giving them money instead of useless paper tracts), to give the mother a break? With most of the $6k, he could hire a tutor or put those kids in really good schools, and still have enough for printing.

1. His picture of Zambia was "Out of Africa."

2. He cannot send his kids to school in Zambia for the same reasons he cannot send them to school in the USA.

3. He does not seem to even have been aware that a visa was needed.

[slickcat79]

Sorry, a bit late on the Shrader shindig, but why didn't they just buy a printer in Zambia? They have internet for John to post and send emails for more money, so the country isn't living in the dark ages, so why in the world would he not even consider that he could buy a printer in Zambia? Or better yet, why not hire local printing office to do the work?

A question: does anyone know how long this family plan on being in Zambia? Because most visitors can only stay a maximum of 90 days at a time.

Final question: Why don't they just send their kids to a school there or hire a tutor (again, hiring locals and giving them money instead of useless paper tracts), to give the mother a break? With most of the $6k, he could hire a tutor or put those kids in really good schools, and still have enough for printing.

His usual response to why they don't just buy things in Zambia is that the cost is way too high. He has definitely said that the cost of hiring a shop to do copies is very high, but I don't think he's considered the maintenance costs of having his own machine.

John has a work visa. I think it has to be renewed annually, but he should be able to stay indefinitely. He's been amazingly lucky with his documents so far...or as he would say, God is looking out for him.

As far as John is concerned, homeschooling is the only acceptable option for his kids. The quality of their education doesn't actually matter, but isolating them from worldly influences is the highest priority.

[Palimpsest]

1. His picture of Zambia was "Out of Africa."

2. He cannot send his kids to school in Zambia for the same reasons he cannot send them to school in the USA.

3. He does not seem to even have been aware that a visa was needed.

What IreallyamHopewell said, but he does now have a visa. They say that they will be in Zambia indefinitely. Or until the donations run out.

On their original TeamZambia site Rea and Shrader had an, um, ambitious approach to their dream Mission. John was going to print tracts and courageously fly them to remote areas where no white man had gone before. David was going to take over a radio station and run it. They were both going to convert and train nationals.

Whatever did happen to David Rea? Is he posting on John's FB at all?

[Miggy]

It's the most interesting thing about John - his whole idea of Africa is at least 200, maybe more, years out if date. Going into the depths of Africa where no white man has ever been? Sorry John, too late. (There are isolate tribes in the Amazon still but their government has rules to protect them from people like you.)

MrMiggy's fundy relatives were missionaries in Africa for a long time. They would only home school here but actually sent their kids to school in Africa. An all black school in apartheid South Africa, of course.

[Coco]

(snip)

On their original TeamZambia site Rea and Shrader had an, um, ambitious approach to their dream Mission. John was going to print tracts and courageously fly them to remote areas where no white man had gone before. David was going to take over a radio station and run it. They were both going to convert and train nationals. (snip)

what the heck. It sounds like he just read the journals of Jim Elliot and a bunch of other missionary biographies, decided that was his dream, and forgot to add in 60 years of time and change. iirc there aren't a lot of modern missionary biography books for homeschoolers out there.

[scc12]

I think it was said somewhere they will be staying for 7 years.And that about equals the time the oldest will approach courting age.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I was wondering about these printers. I've never worked anywhere that had one function without regular calls to and visits from the tech gods and goddesses. Same with just about any expensive piece of equipment (the photo machines when I worked at Walgreens made me want to kill myself on a monthly basis).

At home we've learned to buy the cheapo $30 HP that Walmart sells and replace it every year or so (while hanging on to an old 3-in-1 that won't print but will scan). It acts up and it goes in the garbage. We got a nicer wireless printer/scanner for Christmas last year, and while it's still working nicely, I don't have high hopes for it being a long term possesion. I've always had a printer curse upon me and it's not worth the money and hassle to have repaired.

[Miggy]

This, exactly!

Copiers play up. Ink is expensive. It is cheaper to buy a new copier than a refill. There is a sign at work saying photocopiers have a union - if one is broken, don't bother trying the others. They will all be on strike.

Also wondering, as I have no experience in Africa, how is paper treated there. My Nepalese friends (evil Hindus, lol) tell me that books are highly valued but loose sheets of paper are used to light fires. My friends say everyone recognises the value of education, hence the value of books but tracts such as John plans to hand out, would be straight onto the fire. Government departments and private businesses there, as here, are going to a paperless office. It is much cheaper and easier to run one computer and keep everything on disk.

[slickcat79]

This, exactly!

Copiers play up. Ink is expensive. It is cheaper to buy a new copier than a refill. There is a sign at work saying photocopiers have a union - if one is broken, don't bother trying the others. They will all be on strike.

Also wondering, as I have no experience in Africa, how is paper treated there. My Nepalese friends (evil Hindus, lol) tell me that books are highly valued but loose sheets of paper are used to light fires. My friends say everyone recognises the value of education, hence the value of books but tracts such as John plans to hand out, would be straight onto the fire. Government departments and private businesses there, as here, are going to a paperless office. It is much cheaper and easier to run one computer and keep everything on disk.

That's good :lol: Our printer has a name tag that says Bob Marley...cuz it's always jammin'

[church_of_dog]

That's good :lol: Our printer has a name tag that says Bob Marley...cuz it's always jammin'

Ha! I actually made a sign like that once in my office, "Bob Marley printer" -- for the exact same reason, of course... :lol:

[Gobsmacked]

Did the Rea family go to Zambia at all? I haven't seen them mentioned. :?

[Palimpsest]

Did the Rea family go to Zambia at all? I haven't seen them mentioned. :?

The last I heard they were still grifting funding on deputation along with Cindy, the third member of Team Zambia, who had 60% of her funding the last time I looked.

My Spidey senses are tingling and I'm wondering whether John and David Rea have parted ways. David has slapped John down a couple of times and the silence from Shrader about the Rea family and Cindy now seems deafening.

[cindyluvs24]

Sorry, I read "Shrader" and I think of Hank from "Breaking Bad."

[freealljs]

Thanks everyone for answering my questions about John and his family. I feel for his kids and wife, and I hope that nothing bad happens to them. I was suggesting the tutoring as a way to provide the kids a decent education.

So, how the heck did John get a work visa? Getting a work visa overseas implies that the person will bring a skill that is beneficial to the country. What skills does John possess?

[Palimpsest]

John Shrader apparently got some sort of missionary visa in Zambia. IIRC from when I first looked it up, the small print of that means:

1. A national had to invite him and vouch for him as a missionary,

2. that his sending church had to commit to paying for all his expenses there, and

3. that he is not allowed to take paid employment in Zambia.

freealljs, you may find the archives on Shrader amusing to read. They can be found here in the Keller/Waller/Shrader section: viewforum.php?f=132

I'm certainly not saying you have to read them and not ask questions in this thread! Keep on doing that. It's more that there is a lot of good discussion and direct quotes from John there that will explain our outrage. We can't quote him directly anymore because he made his Facebook private. :(

[slickcat79]

STFU, Internetz! John posted a pic of the kids in the "truth carrier", and 4 youngest at least are in some kind of child seat. I'm not sure they're ideally sized for the children's ages, but at least he's making an effort? They also picked up a Precious African child for the ride, not sure what that's about. The boys got buzz cuts that make them look strikingly like the Anderson children.

The family took a trip to the Kafue river and watched some fishing. John was quick to correct a commenter that it was NOT really a vacation but the kids had been begging to go for 3 months. Not sure why those things are mutually exclusive.

They had 29 people in service last weekend. They also smashed a big scorpion. John seems to enjoy sharing photos/descriptions of killing animals and pests. I'm not sure if he's just sadistic, or he thinks it adds to his narrative about the dangerous wilds of Dark Africa.

John shared a bit of his and Esther's courtship story. When he first heard about her "potential for courtship" he was very impressed by the fact that she considered a trip to Wendys with her dad to be a "big night out on the town"! At least he recognized that picking a girl with low expectations would make him more attractive :roll: Thanks to more "sacrificial giving", they were able to bring a hand crank ice cream maker in the container. They devised some chocolate ice cream that tastes like a Frosty to bring them back to the courting days. Ah, romance.

[PearlKrabs]

I haven't done anything? But, but ... We're fighting off SCORPIONS, people! Big ones. Big African scorpions. It's scary here in deep, dark Africa. Plea$e $end help.

I grew up in Phoenix, AZ, so scorpions don't impress me, John.

[shraderfriend]

Wow a new thread all for John. Today is the first time I have looked on here since signing off several months ago. John did not seem to like me wanting to "have a dialogue" with you all so I agreed to not really continue. This is his families life you are all talking about and so I understand why it is not really my place. I do have one question for you all though. There seems to be rules about not identifying those that post here under secret code names, why is it ok to go after shraders, or duggars, or whoever else by name while never revealing who you are?? That seems a bit unfair. Anyway I did want to clarify one thing I never did the last time I was on here. I just read through the zillions of pages about John on here and saw my old posts and realized I never tied up my thoughts.

First I need to apologize for people I commented about as it looks likes they were thrown under the bus without ever getting to my point. I mentioned the living conditions of the house I rented from the Duggars last year. The issued I mentioned were true but I did make them worse than they were as I was curious your responses. The thing I was wondering about was how some of you said the only issue you have with John was his not taking care of his family (which I think they are cared for quite well). Many of you defended Jim Bob as doing a great job providing for his family when I mentioned the house conditions. Which left me wondering if Jim Bob is doing a great job in your minds about providing and that is all you have against John, what exactly do you have against Jim Bob???? It seems that you would not have any issue with him. You all think you know people because of what you see on Tuesday nights or read on a facebook page, when you guys didn't believe Josh and Annas first house had a garage. Anyway, back to my original thoughts. Yes, there were issues with the house when we moved in, but they were not bad. A little mold that was easily cleaned (only an issue because we have mold allergies), some pealing paint, wasps which we got rid of and the garage was a scary mess but was never really to be used for a garage anyway. Oh yes, there were leaks but it only leaked once and Grandma Duggar was ready to take care of that as soon as it happened. We had a few other issues that she had someone come fix as well. They were very nice the whole time although maybe a little leary of us who came from nowhere to move to Arkansas. They did not charge us a deposit for the rental and rented it month to month as grandma duggar knew it was small and we might want a larger place when we found one. They really did go out of their way to help us get in to a rental.

I also wanted to follow up about the car I bought from Josh. It had mechanical issues before we got it home, but he did go out of his way to have it fixed over the course of several days. It was a used car and he tells you when you buy it "if you breaks in half on the way home, you own two halves". I don't think he wanted to put the money in to fix it at first but he did it and was good about it. He even gave us some furniture as he was preparing to head to DC at the time.

I think i also mentioned how Jimbob seemed to be all business or something like that. Yes he was and it was a bit funny to us how serious he seemed when we were doing the rental agreement. He seemed to have such a focus on getting that done and it was difficult to have normal conversation at the same time. One of my drawbacks is that I make friends with my customers and go from there. Which is probably one reason I have never been great at sales. My focus is on the person and not the product. Jimbob is much more successful than me on the business side so I can not fault him for seeming aloof during the process.

Anyway all that to say. In all of these threads you guys don't have any idea really who these people are you go on about. If you want to argue about your actual experiences with ATI or other group or "leader" out there, go right ahead. But why are you all projecting your fears or experiences on to these people that you do not know and aren't willing to reveal who you are that are saying it?

[happy atheist]

You rented a house from the Duggars that had mold, peeling paint, wasps, leaks, and an unusable garage. You bought a car from the Duggars that broke down on the way home. How is this story supposed to make the Duggars look good?

[themothership]

You rented a house from the Duggars that had mold, peeling paint, wasps, leaks, and an unusable garage. You bought a car from the Duggars that broke down on the way home. How is this story supposed to make the Duggars look good?

But they were nice, doesn't that make up for it?

:|

[Miggy]

Why do I snark on real people under an assumed name? Easy. People like the Duggars and Shraders are choosing to live their lives in the public eye via either traditional media, social media or both. I choose to keep my life more private. Simple. (For the record, John Shrader knows my real name as I contacted him, questioning some aspects of his ministry.)

As for the accuracy of our discussions, that is down to the individual we are discussing. John wrote about his plane and his flying lessons. He has not mentioned it since arriving in Zambia. Naturally we are suspicious. Does the plane exist? Has John been ripped off? It was his writing that triggered our discussion. If our discussion now - that the plane is junk or doesn't exist - is wrong, that is because John has not provided follow up information on his blog. I realise he has no obligation to report back to FJ but I am surprised he has not reported back in his newsletter to those churches that are funding his mission.