Adeye (No Greater Joy blog) is adopting 4 embryos

[Cheetah]

Posted this on the 'Child Collectors Extraordinaire" thread but that thread seems to be buried somewhere I can't find without searching for it.

Anyway, Adeye and her husband already have a few bio kids and a number of adopted special needs kids.. some are very special-needs... and today she blogged that they are 'adopting' 4 frozen embryos. Not that there's anything wrong with that on its own, but between the religiosity of the blog in general (gack, although that's just personal taste) plus the number of SNKs the family has already...

nogreaterjoymom.com/2014/08/here-we-are-lord-send-us.html

[Sparkle]

...and she's going into this with the knowledge that two embryos from the same group produced special needs kids.

There was so much in that post that kind of squicked me out. Although in the comments, the lady who said she had quads when she was told two of the embryos would be non-viable--was that overstepping of boundaries by the nurse? Of course Adeye's followers are thinking it's all amazing and fantastic, but it seems somewhat unprofessional.

[socalrules]

How exactly do you adopt embryos? Unless she is going to implant them what exactly is she going to do with them? I didn't read the article so maybe it is mentioned in there but is her purpose to just not have them destroyed, which she may see as a sort of outside the body abortion?

[It'sFunToRun]

How exactly do you adopt embryos? Unless she is going to implant them what exactly is she going to do with them? I didn't read the article so maybe it is mentioned in there but is her purpose to just not have them destroyed, which she may see as a sort of outside the body abortion?

Adopting embryos means she's going to implant them in her womb. It's more complicated that it sounds because you have to take a bunch of shots to make sure you're at the right place in your period and your hormonal levels are hospitable to a pregnancy.

I think adopting embryos is a great thing to do for a woman who has a functioning uterus but for some reason her eggs aren't fertile. Then she gets to go through the pregnancy herself. I think adopting embryos is strange when you are capable of having your own children, or adopting already living children, but you feel sorry for a 16 cell thing (not that it should be illegal because I think it's weird). I think that's why Adeye is doing it.

[It'sFunToRun]

I really hope she implants them one at a time.

[Marianne]

If Adeye have quads, I don't see HOW she will deal with it.

The "Child collector extraordinaire" is on the "quiver full of snark" --> "Archived topical thread" --> "Topics" --> "Adoption"

[jerkit]

On the one hand I'm like "Glad at least one rabid pro-lifer is taking action instead of being all talk." On the other hand, those poor kids :(

[BrownieMomma]

I swear, it just seems like I can't distinguish any more between people who are doing things because they feel called and convicted by the Lord and people who do things for attention. Or to scratch some personal itch, but because they go to church they get to proclaim "It's for the Lord! It's from God!"

She's lamenting how all these frozen embryos are being treated like property but geez louise, isn't what she is proposing just about the same thing? Adopting them, she says, but why does it feel like she's buying them?

Is there no father, no sperm donor? Does he have no say in this matter?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Why the hell is Adeye having quads?????? No way. Doesn't she have enough on her hands with 9 kids already, especially when about half of them have Down Syndrome, one is non verbal and probably autistic, and one will never mentally or physically progress past toddler level. Shes putting too much work on herself, and pushing herself too far, and it will spread her care too thin. Also higher order multiples are a high risk pregnancy, it is possible that most of them will have special needs, either genetic or from prematurity, she will be on bedrest for the last bit of the pregnancy, and will spend even more of it heavily pregnant looking like she will give birth at any minute, and cant run around after the kids. With four newborns, she probably will not sleep for months, and has nine other kids to look after as well, most of which have special needs.

I think this is a bad idea and not in the best interests of her kids.

[Firiel]

I work with someone who adopted embryos, and the doctor told her there was only a 50% chance of them "taking." Not sure if that was a blanket statistic or only applicable to her.

Anyway, four embryos might not equal four babies.

(Though even with 50% odds, it could and that seems really irresponsible.)

[apple1]

Posted this on the 'Child Collectors Extraordinaire" thread but that thread seems to be buried somewhere I can't find without searching for it.

OT - I have had the same thing happen with a thread I was following over time, and even after I posted again, and someone else posted again, the only way I could find the thread was to search for my own previous posts. I didn't understand, and if a thread has to be searched for like that, it is useless to try to post to it and continue the conversation. I don't get it.

[MissSeptember]

I did two cycles of IVF and currently have one embryo frozen.

There is a new (my clinic's been doing it for 3 years) freezing technique that results in nearly a 90% rate of surviving the thaw. However, if these embryos were frozen years and years ago, as she claims, they would not have been frozen using this technique and will have around a 60% chance at surviving thaw.

Without the PGD genetic testing that she is opting to forgo, there is no way to know if any of the embryos will result in special needs. She also never mentions the quality or grade of the embryos. Low grade does not mean special needs (although she will probably think it does). It means the embryo is more likely to stop growing or not implant. That is what the first commenter meant, two of her embryos were low grade and the nurse convinced her to transfer them anyway. The nurse should have had her thaw and transfer one low grade and one high grade, then later thaw and transfer the other low and high grade embryos. My son was graded very low, so I am a fan of transferring low grade embies. :)

I am shocked that it was only two years ago the first commenter did her embryo transfer, because after the Gosselins and Octomom, Reproductive Endocrinologists are extremely discouraged (and in some states legally not permitted) to transfer that many embryos at one time. Frozen embryos have a higher rate of splitting in the womb (identical twins). So to transfer four at once is to allow for the chance of actually having eight fetuses.

I'm not going to say I hope it is not successful, because I'd hate for that child to years down the road read this, but I do hope someone steps in to educate her and guide her to make wise fertility decisions. I highly doubt there is a fundie Reproductive Endocrinologist anywhere on earth, so at least she'll have one voice of reason in her life.

[Mama Mia]

I don't understand, it sounds like she plans on keeping and raising the adopted embryos, but she says they come from a woman who has only been trying to place them because she can't carry them herself due to health issues. I would think she would just act as a gestational surrogate and give any resulting babies to the bio mom. Or maybe that woman's health issues are too severe to care for more children? And I thought they only implanted two embryos at a time now-- so why wouldn't she just adopt them and try two different times to have them implanted- if they first set resulted in pregnancy, couldn't she just do the last two later?

[Seren Ann]

Please enlighten me if I am wrong, but beyond the general squickiness I feel about the whole thing, I don't see how this makes sense to her. She only had 3 bio kids and they are her eldest so obviously she must be using some form of birth control. I don't understand how in fundie land frozen embryos are worth more than your own blessings God wants you to have ? Isn't wasting precious life through birth control as bad as wasting frozen embryos ? Surely all forms of birth control are evil in fundie land (save maybe NFP but she must be very diligent with it to have it work for so long.)

I have just passed an embryology exam yesterday so I am very aware of exactly what those frozen embryos are and how they freeze them as well as the uncertainty of an embryo managing to implant and thrive. It amazes me when she talks about rights etc. for them. At that stage they are just a clump of cells, a potential, a possibility. Odds are high that even if they transfer them to her womb they won't survive. They have no awareness. Their parents knew that not using all of the embryos was a possibility, yet chose to pay for them to be created anyway. Imo if you do IVF you should be comfortable with every aspect of it, or else choose another way to grow a family.

I don't know, her views just confuse me so much. It makes no sense whatsoever.

(And I agree that it seems very reckless to chance a high risk pregnancy with so many special needs children to care for.)

[Firiel]

Please enlighten me if I am wrong, but beyond the general squickiness I feel about the whole thing, I don't see how this makes sense to her. She only had 3 bio kids and they are her eldest so obviously she must be using some form of birth control. I don't understand how in fundie land frozen embryos are worth more than your own blessings God wants you to have ? Isn't wasting precious life through birth control as bad as wasting frozen embryos ? Surely all forms of birth control are evil in fundie land (save maybe NFP but she must be very diligent with it to have it work for so long.)

I have just passed an embryology exam yesterday so I am very aware of exactly what those frozen embryos are and how they freeze them as well as the uncertainty of an embryo managing to implant and thrive. It amazes me when she talks about rights etc. for them. At that stage they are just a clump of cells, a potential, a possibility. Odds are high that even if they transfer them to her womb they won't survive. They have no awareness. Their parents knew that not using all of the embryos was a possibility, yet chose to pay for them to be created anyway. Imo if you do IVF you should be comfortable with every aspect of it, or else choose another way to grow a family.

I don't know, her views just confuse me so much. It makes no sense whatsoever.

(And I agree that it seems very reckless to chance a high risk pregnancy with so many special needs children to care for.)

Because embryos are already complete humans who must be kept alive at all costs while birth control simply stops babies from being formed.

Also, it's possible that she's not on birth control and just hasn't been able to have any more, isn't it?

I could be wrong-- I don't know anything about this particular woman's story.

[Coco]

i can't imagine what her daily life must be like. Her kids are beautiful though. I hope she has a LOT of help. In that situation it really does take a village. One mom doing all of that work is just not healthy... as we've seen recently. So sad. viewtopic.php?f=8&t=22746

[Mama Mia]

Because embryos are already complete humans who must be kept alive at all costs while birth control simply stops babies from being formed.

Also, it's possible that she's not on birth control and just hasn't been able to have any more, isn't it?

I could be wrong-- I don't know anything about this particular woman's story.

I think we just are getting so used to the idea that all extremely religious people think all birth control equals baby killing, because of the stuff we read here, that it's easy to forget that the vast majority of women do use birth control.

Even if they are extremely religious, strongly anti-abortion, and absolutely believe that life begins at conception.

They may not use birth control that they continue to be abortifacients, but they can still use NFP, condoms, barriers, spermicides, etc.....and most are even okay with the pill and the patch.

We just hear so much of the extremist of the extreme here it's hard to remember that all of those evangelical churches and Catholic Mass are filled with families who have 2 or 3 kids, and are completely comfortable with everyone assuming that those kids are deliberately planned.

[salex]

I have been thinking that this could be a great new "ministry" for aging Stay at Home Daughters whose dads just can't let go. It gives them the babies they were trained to raise, without sex rearing its ugly head. It lets Daddy expand his tribe without handing their precious daughters off to some unacceptable man. It moves the dominion further, without diluted Daddy's control. AND, it puts their money where they mouth is in their "pro life" credentials.

If you see this becoming a trend, remember you saw it here first. :dance:

[It'sFunToRun]

I don't understand, it sounds like she plans on keeping and raising the adopted embryos, but she says they come from a woman who has only been trying to place them because she can't carry them herself due to health issues. I would think she would just act as a gestational surrogate and give any resulting babies to the bio mom. Or maybe that woman's health issues are too severe to care for more children? And I thought they only implanted two embryos at a time now-- so why wouldn't she just adopt them and try two different times to have them implanted- if they first set resulted in pregnancy, couldn't she just do the last two later?

The reason that she (and other people) would implant four at once instead of two, then two more is because (1) it costs half as much money and (2) the process leading up to implantation requires a bunch of shots and hormones, and the implantation itself is rather unpleasant. I've heard of the shots causing such bloating and discomfort that women have had to take off work.

"I would think she would just act as a gestational surrogate and give any resulting babies to the bio mom."

I know you've said before that you have kids, so I won't describe to you how annoying pregnancy and childbirth are, but I don't think most people would be willing to go through that without getting a hefty payment or a baby at the end. Or doing it for a sister or really close friend, maybe.

[formergothardite]

I have been thinking that this could be a great new "ministry" for aging Stay at Home Daughters whose dads just can't let go. It gives them the babies they were trained to raise, without sex rearing its ugly head. It lets Daddy expand his tribe without handing their precious daughters off to some unacceptable man. It moves the dominion further, without diluted Daddy's control. AND, it puts their money where they mouth is in their "pro life" credentials.

If you see this becoming a trend, remember you saw it here first. :dance:

The TLC show could be called Virgin Mothers.

[It'sFunToRun]

I have been thinking that this could be a great new "ministry" for aging Stay at Home Daughters whose dads just can't let go. It gives them the babies they were trained to raise, without sex rearing its ugly head. It lets Daddy expand his tribe without handing their precious daughters off to some unacceptable man. It moves the dominion further, without diluted Daddy's control. AND, it puts their money where they mouth is in their "pro life" credentials.

If you see this becoming a trend, remember you saw it here first. :dance:

If you're thinking what I'm thinking, it wouldn't fly in fundie land because the embryos (and future babies) would not be related to the girl's father, so the sins of the parents would stick to them.

[Firiel]

The TLC show could be called Virgin Mothers.

"...and I gave birth to every one! While being a virgin!"

[Marianne]

I think we just are getting so used to the idea that all extremely religious people think all birth control equals baby killing, because of the stuff we read here, that it's easy to forget that the vast majority of women do use birth control.

Even if they are extremely religious, strongly anti-abortion, and absolutely believe that life begins at conception.

They may not use birth control that they continue to be abortifacients, but they can still use NFP, condoms, barriers, spermicides, etc.....and most are even okay with the pill and the patch.

We just hear so much of the extremist of the extreme here it's hard to remember that all of those evangelical churches and Catholic Mass are filled with families who have 2 or 3 kids, and are completely comfortable with everyone assuming that those kids are deliberately planned.

After the birth of her 3rd bio child, she ask the doctor to sterilize here. I don't know (hysterectomy ?). It's somewhere on her blog.

[Seren Ann]

After the birth of her 3rd bio child, she ask the doctor to sterilize here. I don't know (hysterectomy ?). It's somewhere on her blog.

Oh ok thanks for the info ! That makes more sense.

Maybe a tubal ligation, because she must still have her uterus to carry those embryos.

[Marianne]

Oh ok thanks for the info ! That makes more sense.

Maybe a tubal ligation, because she must still have her uterus to carry those embryos.

Yeah, that's it ! I was looking for the word, I thought tubal ligation was for men (I stopped biology at 16...)

I was really surprised when i read this.