Texas court rules against homeschoolers who expected rapture

[Ralar]

A Texas court ruled this month that parents who allegedly stopped homeschooling their kids because they believed Jesus Christ was returning to Earth were not exempt from state education regulations. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/11/texas-court-rules-against-homeschoolers-who-expected-rapture-and-stopped-teaching-kids/

These losers are cray cray. Even Texas didn't buy their argument.

If you like reading legal documents, here is the Court's Order.

[BrownieMomma]

A Texas court ruled this month that parents who allegedly stopped homeschooling their kids because they believed Jesus Christ was returning to Earth were not exempt from state education regulations. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/11/texas-court-rules-against-homeschoolers-who-expected-rapture-and-stopped-teaching-kids/

These losers are cray cray. Even Texas didn't buy their argument.

If you like reading legal documents, here is the Court's Order.

Wow that court really stepped in it.

The state has no right to regulate private schools in Texas. A homeschool is a private school. The school district had no right to demand curriculum from the parents. They could have simply tested Tori and admitted her as a freshman or at whatever level she might have tested. They was actually no need to ask the parents for curriculum. That Mendoza also way overstepped - zealous persecution of homeschoolers.

I am having the same exact situation with my son in the same state. He was homeschooled last year. I am not producing curriculum. The principal asked, I said I was not producing it, requested that my son be administered any testing and be admitted as a freshman, even though he is 16. He is now enrolled as a freshman and will test next week.

No witch hunt in my school district, thank goodness.

As for the uncle who witnessed whatever he thinks he saw... really doubt he was there watching all the time. The parents may have also used that space primarily for music or whatever else. And the kid who smarted off to the cousin about not studying because the rapture is coming... who knows if that is a smoking gun or some random kid comment.

I didn't read the legal document past the first sentence. In Texas, no school district has the right to investigate a private school/homeschool curriculum. Oh yeah.. I did read a bit further. Seems the uncle got pissed that he couldn't control his twin brother. Really, truly, honestly doubt that Tracy was the best person to be observing, commenting or reporting on the family's educational activities. What exactly were his qualifications again? And how did this "observing" thing work out exactly?

[It'sFunToRun]

Wow that court really stepped in it.

The state has no right to regulate private schools in Texas. A homeschool is a private school. The school district had no right to demand curriculum from the parents. They could have simply tested Tori and admitted her as a freshman or at whatever level she might have tested. They was actually no need to ask the parents for curriculum. That Mendoza also way overstepped - zealous persecution of homeschoolers.

I am having the same exact situation with my son in the same state. He was homeschooled last year. I am not producing curriculum. The principal asked, I said I was not producing it, requested that my son be administered any testing and be admitted as a freshman, even though he is 16. He is now enrolled as a freshman and will test next week.

No witch hunt in my school district, thank goodness.

As for the uncle who witnessed whatever he thinks he saw... really doubt he was there watching all the time. The parents may have also used that space primarily for music or whatever else. And the kid who smarted off to the cousin about not studying because the rapture is coming... who knows if that is a smoking gun or some random kid comment.

I didn't read the legal document past the first sentence. In Texas, no school district has the right to investigate a private school/homeschool curriculum. Oh yeah.. I did read a bit further. Seems the uncle got pissed that he couldn't control his twin brother. Really, truly, honestly doubt that Tracy was the best person to be observing, commenting or reporting on the family's educational activities. What exactly were his qualifications again? And how did this "observing" thing work out exactly?

You think that the court overstepped its boundaries by telling parents they have to educate their children? Why shouldn't homeschooling parents have to provide a curriculum to prove they are teaching? It sounds like you think that children are not entitled to an education. Do parents have the right to not teach their kids math and English? If not, then shouldn't they have to prove that they are teaching?

I'm all for homeschooling and even unschooling, but I'm all for children learning.

[Letgo]

Are there no regulations for private schools in Texas? If a home based school is actually considered a private school, would there not be some form of regulation to follow?

[FloraKitty35]

In the words of Edna Krabappel "Ha".

[Howl]

Are there no regulations for private schools in Texas? If a home based school is actually considered a private school, would there not be some form of regulation to follow?

You can check out some information on homeschooling in Texas here

At the bottom of the page is a link to the Texas Education Commissioner's Home School Policy Letter, which is essentially a clarification of policy letter, but here are some key parts of the letter having to do with homeschooling as well as transferring of credits and academic placement if the kid wants to return to public school:

Students should be disenrolled by school officials when they receive written notice either by signing withdrawal forms or a letter of withdrawal. It is not necessary for the parents to make a personal appearance with school officials or present curriculum for review. School districts which become aware of a student who is potentially being home schooled may request in writing a letter of assurance from the parents of the student regarding their intention to home-school the student. This letter may require assurances that the home-school curriculum is designed to meet basic education goals including reading, spelling, grammar, mathematics, and a study of good citizenship.

Additionally, it has been brought to my attention that there may be some confusion with respect to the awarding of transfer credit from students who have been home schooled. Students transferring from home schools should be afforded the same treatment as students transferring from unaccredited private schools. Awarding of credit for courses taken may be determined by reviewing the curriculum and/or work of the student, or by using appropriate assessments....

As the TEA has stated in the past, school districts may assess students by administering valid and reliable assessment instruments. The determination of whether or not to use such instruments is a local matter. Districts may place students according to a review of the curriculum, course of study, and work of the student coming from a home school environment. Section 28.021 of the Texas Education Code (TEC) requires advancement or credit to be awarded on the basis of "academic achievement or demonstrated proficiency of the subject matter.

[utter solitude]

I find it odd that a school district wouldn't be allowed to require a curriculum when enrolling a child.

Just a random musing, but: if you want the best for your child, and you send them to an actual school after homeschooling, why would you not give the school details on your curriculum, regardless of whether or not it's required? Wouldn't the best way to determine where your child stands/possible gaps be to give all the information you can to the school? :think: It almost sounds like something is being hidden.

[doggie]

this is Texas they have few regulations. I mean they don't need fire regulations or zoning regulations so why education regulations.

[lawfulevil]

I really really hate this notion that we're "persecuting" people by requiring them to teach their kids the fundamental basics required to exist in modern society. Like, no, you do NOT have the right to make a bunch of small human beings and raise them to believe the world is basically Jack Chick tracts.

[Howl]

I find it odd that a school district wouldn't be allowed to require a curriculum when enrolling a child.

Just a random musing, but: if you want the best for your child, and you send them to an actual school after homeschooling, why would you not give the school details on your curriculum, regardless of whether or not it's required? Wouldn't the best way to determine where your child stands/possible gaps be to give all the information you can to the school? :think: It almost sounds like something is being hidden.

I agree. Just common sense that you would want to get off to a good start by cooperating in a respectful way with the education professionals that will be caring for and educating your child.

Personally, I salute the relative or whoever turned this family in; really, if you care about children, you will see that they get the best education possible.

[salex]

I suspect if the judge overstepped (which I'm not sure he did) it will come out in the appeal. Because, IF their is a case there are christian groups and homeschool groups that will take the case for little or nothing, to make their point.

If that doesn't happen, then even the true believer legal eagles believe they can't win (and I think they take a few they think they can't just for the PR of it.)

[Childless]

I'm sorry, but if you plan to homeschool your child, you should have to both present the curriculum to the state and take state administered assessment tests every year. If you're homeschooling correctly and have only your child's best interest at heart, doing these small things should not be a problem. Every child has the right to a good education and the state has the responsibility to makes sure they are getting it. After all, these children will one day become adults who will be released into society. As a fellow member of that society, I certainly don't want to live in a community with a rise in the crime or welfare rates because parents decided educating their children wasn't a priority. These kids have to be able to survive someday and I'd rather they be capable of doing so with breaking laws are becoming a burden on their fellow citizens. A child's education affects more than just their family, therefore everyone (in the form of the state) has the right to know that the child will be a functional adult. None of us lives in a bubble. What we do affects those around us and those people also have a responsibility to make sure their community will be well served. Good on the uncle for bringing the situation to light. I'm sure there was an investigation and I'm sure the results were exactly as the uncle reported, otherwise the judge would not have made the decision he did. At least the child will get an education now and that is all that is important.

[utter solitude]

I'm sorry, but if you plan to homeschool your child, you should have to both present the curriculum to the state and take state administered assessment tests every year. If you're homeschooling correctly and have only your child's best interest at heart, doing these small things should not be a problem. Every child has the right to a good education and the state has the responsibility to makes sure they are getting it. After all, these children will one day become adults who will be released into society. As a fellow member of that society, I certainly don't want to live in a community with a rise in the crime or welfare rates because parents decided educating their children wasn't a priority. These kids have to be able to survive someday and I'd rather they be capable of doing so with breaking laws are becoming a burden on their fellow citizens. A child's education affects more than just their family, therefore everyone (in the form of the state) has the right to know that the child will be a functional adult. None of us lives in a bubble. What we do affects those around us and those people also have a responsibility to make sure their community will be well served. Good on the uncle for bringing the situation to light. I'm sure there was an investigation and I'm sure the results were exactly as the uncle reported, otherwise the judge would not have made the decision he did. At least the child will get an education now and that is all that is important.

I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, that every child deserves an education...

...but you lose me at the idea that poor/no education = committing crimes/being on welfare.

[BrownieMomma]

I did think of this later... the parents should have cooperated with providing the school district a written reassurance that they are homeschooling in a bona fide manner. There are only five subjects required, one of which is a course in good citizenship. There is a standard letter that parents can use, readily available on the Internet. The parents are not required to fill out any forms from a school district.

The state does not regulate private schools in Texas.

I am very interested in why Tori decided, at age 17, to run away and attend high school. I wonder what she thought was going to happen, if she had any way to have a realistic understanding of what she was pursuing. Would love to hear her thoughts on all of it.

[utter solitude]

I did think of this later... the parents should have cooperated with providing the school district a written reassurance that they are homeschooling in a bona fide manner. There are only five subjects required, one of which is a course in good citizenship. There is a standard letter that parents can use, readily available on the Internet. The parents are not required to fill out any forms from a school district.

The state does not regulate private schools in Texas.

I am very interested in why Tori decided, at age 17, to run away and attend high school. I wonder what she thought was going to happen, if she had any way to have a realistic understanding of what she was pursuing. Would love to hear her thoughts on all of it.

The bolded is what boggles my mind. Potentially a parent can just dump a severely lacking child onto the school district with little/no information on their needs, unduly (imo) burdening the system.

[Childless]

I agree with the spirit of what you're saying, that every child deserves an education...

...but you lose me at the idea that poor/no education = committing crimes/being on welfare.

Sorry, but lack of educational opportunity does lead to an increase in the crime rate. That's a proven fact. Also, if one is not educated enough to get and hold a job, it becomes the communities responsibility to feed/clothe/house that person and any children they bring into the world either in the form of government welfare or community/religious charitable organizations. Thus, the person becomes a burden on society. Not many people can get a job that pays enough to live on if they can't read or do basic math.

[utter solitude]

Sorry, but lack of educational opportunity does lead to an increase in the crime rate. That's a proven fact. Also, if one is not educated enough to get and hold a job, it becomes the communities responsibility to feed/clothe/house that person and any children they bring into the world either in the form of government welfare or community/religious charitable organizations. Thus, the person becomes a burden on society. Not many people can get a job that pays enough to live on if they can't read or do basic math.

Don't mind me... I see that you were making a broad statement, for some reason I thought you were proposing a definite causality.

[DarkAnts]

There are now charter schools which are basically home schools. The charter school provides the curriculum and the books. They have teachers there to support the parents and make sure the children stay on track. Teachers meet with parents and students about once a week to talk about progress and any problem areas. The one near me has outings planned once a month for the kids and there are weekly opportunities for the children to meet. The parent may not be able to have full control over the schooling of their children but its a great alternative for those that want to home school.

[Ralar]

I have neighbors who "homeschool" their children. There are 5 kids, age 6-24. The mother has a Master degree in education, but began working outside the home a few years ago. The father has a job that permits him to be home for much of the day. The family started homeschooling when the eldest, gifted child was getting in trouble in elementary school "because eh wasn't being challenged." He currently goes from part-time job to part-time job and takes a occasional class at the local community college. Child #2 graduated from homeschool last year and will spend the next year at the local community college taking remedial math classes so that he can transfer to a different community college and do ROTC. Child # 3 is going into her sophomore year of homeschool. She told me their entire curriculum is done on a computer. My daughter attends public school and will be a 7th grader in the fall. She is more advanced than Child #3 by a couple years, probably in every subject. Child #4 isn't sure what grade he is in (his mother told me 5th). I don't know much about Child #5. This family's SODRPC may be worse than your average SODRT -- and the mother is an educator! I feel sorry for the kids. I don't know what the requirements are for homeschooling in my state, but if this family is satisfying the requirements, they must be nearly non-existent.

I'm not opposed to homeschooling in general. One of my friends (also has a Master degree in education) homeschooled her daughter through 7th grade. She went to public school for 8th grade in order to get used to a classroom before applying to an extremely selective (public) STEM high school. She recently graduated, got accepted into the aerospace engineering program at a very selective university and received a couple scholarships that together will cover everything except room & board. In addition to educating her daughter, my friend teaches writing to homeschool students (most are fundy).

Homeschooling can work, when the parents are willing and able to teach their kids or seek out experts to assist (like my friend). But when the regulations place the bar too low, or the parents ignore the regulations, the kids suffer. . . and society suffers.

[Mama Mia]

Whatever your views on homeschooling and what role the state should play in the level of control, or what curriculum choices are valid. I don't think any of that is relevant to this particular cAse.

The issue, it seems, is that the parents said they had stopped homeschooling, and that their children were receiving no other form of education, because they thought the world was going to end.

So it isn't that they are defending their right to homeschool or unschool or use duvbious methods or their kids weren't meeting standards. It's that they stated they just weren't doing it. At all. On purpose. Or even having the kids do it themselves as part of a philosophy.

I think thats a very, very different issue than all the various debates on parental choice, academic methods, etc.

[Letgo]

Since the Bible clearly states (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32) that we are not going to know when the end comes, why would these people think otherwise? This reminds me of the Jehovah Witnesses who thought the world would end in 1975 (and other dates) so some kids did not attend college as there would not be time to graduate and it would be a waste of time and money. Since the world was ending and all...

[Snarkle]

A Texas Christian "homeschooling" family lost their suit against the state because they did not properly educate their children. (I say "homeschooling" because they would actually need to do some schooling, at home, to merit that title.) They pulled their kids out of a private school because they believed the Rapture was imminent, and did not educate their children at all. The father's own brother testified against him, and one of their kids even ran away from home because she wanted an education. The ruling has the Christian homeschooling community abuzz online. Most interesting is the point that, at least in Texas, there is not"an absolute right to homeschool."

Here are a few (yes, somewhat biased) reports on the case, and a link to the actual case file itself (non-biased):

addictinginfo.org/2014/08/11/texas-conservative-christians-didnt-educate-their-children-because-they-believe-the-rapture-is-coming/

rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/11/texas-court-rules-against-homeschoolers-who-expected-rapture-and-stopped-teaching-kids/

And the case summary itself, which although filled with legalese, is pretty interesting:

search.txcourts.gov/SearchMedia.aspx?MediaVersionID=02d5cdfa-c5ff-4224-a54d-98743e5b85e5&MediaID=85c662d1-bdaf-4842-816e-5424a864daab&coa=%22%20+%20this.CurrentWebState.CurrentCourt%20+%20@%22&DT=Opinion

[Let me say I am not against homeschooling - I have a number of friends from all over the spectrum who do homeschool and I have considered it myself - see Casey_Bates as a good example of a Christian homeschooler - but this family didn't even try to educate their kids and said they didn't have to because of their religious beliefs.]

[FundieWatcher]

Can you imagine the parent/child relationship in 20 years...

Oops...sorry we were wrong about the rapture and you can't read...

[Snarkle]

I read the whole legal document, and while some of the legalese was beyond my scope of comprehension, there were some pretty salient points made as to WHY the parents were in trouble. For one, they refused to discuss things with the school district, and simply had someone from the Homeschool Legal Defense Fund send a note on their behalf. To quote:

The letter claimed that the McIntyres were “in full compliance†but that they declined to “submit any additional information.†The letter did not reflect that the attorney was licensed in Texas, or had any personal knowledge of the educational studies

occurring in the McIntyre home. In January 2007, following their refusal to provide information to campus personnel, various notices and warnings were given to the McIntyres notifying them of their children’s failure to attend school, and requesting conferences. The McIntyres did not cooperate with any of the requests for information or meetings.

Whether the local district should have been involved or not (which in this case it was found it could be), this family dug themselves into a hole by basically tossing the ball to the Homeschool Legal Defense Fund and ignoring all other requests for information. I have a lot of friends who homeschool from all ends of the spectrum, and for an example of a good Christian homeschooling effort see Casey_Bates, and all of them, even the unschoolers, can at least provide minimal documentation of what they do with their children if it were requested. In my state, a friend of mine who has a Master's in Education and was a high school science teacher and homeschools her two kids sends in a summary to the local school district each year and that's all (not all states require this of course). I think this might not have gone so off the rails if the family had cooperated a little more and stopped trying to be the poster family for religious persecution.

[nausicaa]

Since the Bible clearly states (Matthew 24:36, Mark 13:32) that we are not going to know when the end comes, why would these people think otherwise? This reminds me of the Jehovah Witnesses who thought the world would end in 1975 (and other dates) so some kids did not attend college as there would not be time to graduate and it would be a waste of time and money. Since the world was ending and all...

I've never understood why Christians predicting the end of the world is okay. It is SO clear in Mark that this is not acceptable for humans to do. I don't know why the Harold Campings of the world aren't treated as committing a great heresy by conservative Christians.