Texas court rules against homeschoolers who expected rapture

[acheronbeach]

Just IMHO, but I'd rather see someone committing minor crimes or see a person on welfare, if the other choice is to have some kid getting a negligible education.

The kid has no choice and gets their whole future effed up. It seems like the greater tragedy.

[BrownieMomma]

Of all the stuff I read, I didn't see where the parents ever said they stopped homeschooling due to the Rapture coming. I only read that Uncle Tracy overheard his niece/nephew making a comment about it to another cousin. And it really is just horrible that all this happened about ten years ago and there is just now a ruling on it. What a long time to have to live with that crap hanging over your head.

There is a charter school here in Texas, at least one for sure, that is an online program done at your home. There must be a coach present. There are certified teachers with whom the student interacts via phone call, Whiteboard, etc. The coach must vouch that six hours of school are done each school day. The students are expected to adhere to the school calendar set by the state, although some variations are allowed such as field trips. Or if you do your work on Sat you don't have to do it on Tues.

My local school district offers an alternative campus for students who, for some reason, cannot progress in a regular classroom. It is not for discipline issues. It is for pregnant girls, the kid who missed a semester of school due injuries from a car accident, the kid who has to go to work to help support his family. It is all online. The students go to a campus, there is one certified teacher present for each subject, i.e. the math teacher oversees a class of 10-15 students who are all pursuing their individual courses of study. The students can approach the teacher for individualized help but there are no classroom type lessons.

So, even the school system now uses all online courses.

[formergothardite]

I don't have a problem with online classes, but I think all education systems be it private school, homeschool, charter school, unschooling, public schools or online schools should be by law required to provide a sample of their curriculum. There is simply no reason that they couldn't or shouldn't do that. If a parent is homeschooling without a curriculum then that parent should not be allowed to homeschool.

[DGayle]

I am having the same exact situation with my son in the same state. He was homeschooled last year. I am not producing curriculum. The principal asked, I said I was not producing it, requested that my son be administered any testing and be admitted as a freshman, even though he is 16. He is now enrolled as a freshman and will test next week.

So your 16-year-old will be a freshman, when most freshman are 14. Yet you see no problem with not having a curriculum. Lady, your son is two grades behind his peers!! I'm sorry, but I don't think you have any room to be saying what is appropriate for homeschooling, and what isn't.

[DGayle]

I suspect if the judge overstepped (which I'm not sure he did) it will come out in the appeal. Because, IF their is a case there are christian groups and homeschool groups that will take the case for little or nothing, to make their point.

If that doesn't happen, then even the true believer legal eagles believe they can't win (and I think they take a few they think they can't just for the PR of it.)

Since children have a right to an education, I don't think that this will be overturned. How sad is it that one of their daughters ran away so that she could get an education?

[DGayle]

Don't mind me... I see that you were making a broad statement, for some reason I thought you were proposing a definite causality.

Utter, would you care to tell us how poorly educated and uneducated people stand a realistic chance of getting a decent job in a job market that already doesn't have enough good jobs for the people who can read and do math? People who aren't proficient in the basics are the ones who will be passed over for jobs. Where does this leave them? Needing welfare, and often committing crimes just to get the basics.

Tell us why you are defending people not being educated.

[utter solitude]

DGayle, you misunderstood what I was saying entirely. (My fault for not explaining it) For some reason, I thought Childless was suggesting that everyone who does not get a "proper education" would end up a criminal on welfare. That is what I was balking at. However, when I realized she was making a broad, statistical point, I backed away, as I was mistaken. :D Although one could argue that there are, indeed, jobs for the less educated (illegal immigrants who can't speak English also) the point Childless was making is entirely valid. (It's also not a can of worms I wish to open 8-) )

I don't know why you're jumping on me or accusing me of "defending people not being educated", as I certainly am not doing that, nobody here is doing that.

[JellyHope]

The bolded is what boggles my mind. Potentially a parent can just dump a severely lacking child onto the school district with little/no information on their needs, unduly (imo) burdening the system.

Yup. I taught 8th grade history in a Texas public middle school. Got a kid just like you described. Soooooo behind in so many different ways. He ended up repeating the 8th grade the next year. IME retention almost never happens. It was that bad.

[DGayle]

Sorry, Utter, I misread what you were saying.

[utter solitude]

Sorry, Utter, I misread what you were saying.

No trouble, I probably would have the same reaction if I were you! :)

[snarkopolis]

In my entire career in the courts of urban areas (where I get to talk to defendants face to face) I rarely come across college graduates, let alone high school graduates. The inability to get a job that pays minimum wage because you lack not only the basics of math and english, let alone grammar (communicating simple ideas and thoughts), the concept of being on time and ready to work, expectations that you will complete assignments without direct supervision (homework), extrapolating one experience to complete other parts of your job, working with others, etc. are hallmarks of those who are underemployed, unemployed and unable to be employed. Education is paramount. How you gonna get a job when you can't fill out the application? SMDH

[Snarkle]

I worked for an organization for a number of years that tried to educate students on how to become entrepreneurs, how to manage money, and how to find jobs/develop a career. As part of this, I worked with several groups that dealt with dropouts (often because they were pregnant and/or parenting youth) and those at risk of dropping out. It was amazing how some of the kids, against all odds, were working as hard as they could to get an education, even if it was just job training, to better themselves and the lives of their families, whereas other kids wouldn't even bother to show up to free job training or GED classes. I always felt frustrated by the amount of money poured into programs to help people who didn't want to help themselves, but the lack of funding for higher education or job training for many who did want more. I hope these kids get some sort of education, and the ones who really wanted it (since they must be in their 20s by now in some cases) received something over the past decade.

[Mama Mia]

In my entire career in the courts of urban areas (where I get to talk to defendants face to face) I rarely come across college graduates, let alone high school graduates. The inability to get a job that pays minimum wage because you lack not only the basics of math and english, let alone grammar (communicating simple ideas and thoughts), the concept of being on time and ready to work, expectations that you will complete assignments without direct supervision (homework), extrapolating one experience to complete other parts of your job, working with others, etc. are hallmarks of those who are underemployed, unemployed and unable to be employed. Education is paramount. How you gonna get a job when you can't fill out the application? SMDH

All of that is true. But I would be willing to bet good money that the vast majority of the people you're talking about went to public school.

[utter solitude]

Always so much hate on public schools....

[BrownieMomma]

So your 16-year-old will be a freshman, when most freshman are 14. Yet you see no problem with not having a curriculum. Lady, your son is two grades behind his peers!! I'm sorry, but I don't think you have any room to be saying what is appropriate for homeschooling, and what isn't.

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, of course. You might be interested to know that I purposely had my son attend kindergarten twice, as his birthday is late in the academic. At the recommendation of my mother, who taught first and second grade public school for almost 25 years. At this moment, this makes him only a year behind the class he was in all throughout elementary and middle school.

He does have testing to do once school starts to see if he will earn any high school credits. If he does, great. If he doesn't, no big deal. He is attending an alternative campus that is available to students who have missed at least one semester of school - generally due to illness or pregnancy but not for discipline issues. He can graduate on time or earlier if he likes and is willing to put in the effort. He can also transfer to the regular high school should he want to at any time.

I homeschooled for many years. I know a lot about it, especially in my state. Not so much in other states. My homeschooled son will graduate from college next fall with a bachelor's degree in criminal justice. I guess you could continue to try to convince me I have no qualifications on the subject. LOL.

[GiGi_41]

So your 16-year-old will be a freshman, when most freshman are 14. Yet you see no problem with not having a curriculum. Lady, your son is two grades behind his peers!! I'm sorry, but I don't think you have any room to be saying what is appropriate for homeschooling, and what isn't.

Just want to pipe in...my daughter will be 15 when she starts high school as she misses the cut off by 2 days. So she can't even start 4K till she's 5.

[samurai_sarah]

Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion, of course. You might be interested to know that I purposely had my son attend kindergarten twice, as his birthday is late in the academic. At the recommendation of my mother, who taught first and second grade public school for almost 25 years. At this moment, this makes him only a year behind the class he was in all throughout elementary and middle school.

He does have testing to do once school starts to see if he will earn any high school credits. If he does, great. If he doesn't, no big deal. He is attending an alternative campus that is available to students who have missed at least one semester of school - generally due to illness or pregnancy but not for discipline issues. He can graduate on time or earlier if he likes and is willing to put in the effort. He can also transfer to the regular high school should he want to at any time.

I homeschooled for many years. I know a lot about it, especially in my state. Not so much in other states. My homeschooled son will graduate from college next fall with a bachelor's degree in criminal justice. I guess you could continue to try to convince me I have no qualifications on the subject. LOL.

To the bolded, am I getting that wrong, or are you saying that you aren't particularly worried about his education?

[utter solitude]

I am legitimately curious: Why would you send your child to kindergarten twice?

[Mama Mia]

I am legitimately curious: Why would you send your child to kindergarten twice?

I don't know about the poster, but it is pretty common to have a child do a second year of kindergarten. Kids are required to sit still, focus, organize themselves, get along with other kids and have some basic academic skills when they enter first grade. Many kids just aren't quite

" there" yet, maturity wise, at 6. More common with boys and little kids on the younger side.

It's generally a lot easier on the child to have them do another year of learning how to master social and academic skills and mature in the ( usually) less pressured, shorter day kindergarten setting than to send them to the demands of first grade before they are ready. It doesn't imply anything is in any way " wrong" with the kid - just that they all mature at different rates.

I think this is especially true now, when little kids are expected to be already pre-socialized by pre-school, testing expectations are enormous and school funding depends on students fitting into the academic system quickly. So they are often pressured to be much more focused than 5 year olds were in previous years.

[utter solitude]

I don't know about the poster, but it is pretty common to have a child do a second year of kindergarten. Kids are required to sit still, focus, organize themselves, get along with other kids and have some basic academic skills when they enter first grade. Many kids just aren't quite

" there" yet, maturity wise, at 6. More common with boys and little kids on the younger side.

It's generally a lot easier on the child to have them do another year of learning how to master social and academic skills and mature in the ( usually) less pressured, shorter day kindergarten setting than to send them to the demands of first grade before they are ready. It doesn't imply anything is in any way " wrong" with the kid - just that they all mature at different rates.

I think this is especially true now, when little kids are expected to be already pre-socialized by pre-school, testing expectations are enormous and school funding depends on students fitting into the academic system quickly. So they are often pressured to be much more focused than 5 year olds were in previous years.

While I understand all of ^^^^^ this, it sounded as if BrownieMama intended from the beginning for her son to attend kindergarten twice, which is what I'm curious about. I would imagine that having a child repeat kindergarten would be decided if the child didn't seem to be ready to move on, not before they even start.

[Mama Mia]

While I understand all of ^^^^^ this, it sounded as if BrownieMama intended from the beginning for her son to attend kindergarten twice, which is what I'm curious about. I would imagine that having a child repeat kindergarten would be decided if the child didn't seem to be ready to move on, not before they even start.

Maybe. But if you know your kid is on the immature/hyper/young/insecure/non-academic side I could see the rationale of going in with a two-year kindergarten approach. Particularly if they were right on the edge of the cut off date. Especially if pre-school wasn't a good or affordable option.

In my area they have started a process of rolling back the birthday cut off by several months over several years. So many districts actually have started a two year kindergarten program for kids a few months on either side of the cut off.

[Rebelwife]

Maybe. But if you know your kid is on the immature/hyper/young/insecure/non-academic side I could see the rationale of going in with a two-year kindergarten approach. Particularly if they were right on the edge of the cut off date. Especially if pre-school wasn't a good or affordable option.

In my area they have started a process of rolling back the birthday cut off by several months over several years. So many districts actually have started a two year kindergarten program for kids a few months on either side of the cut off.

My daughter only made the school cut off by a couple of days. We started her in kindergarten on time (well, technically she didn't turn 5 until the 2nd week of K), but we always had in the back of our minds that she would very likely repeat kindergarten. As a matter of fact, we sent her to a private half day program thinking that we would switch her to the full day public school option for her second year.

As it turned out, we decided she didn't need that second year of kindergarten after all, but we literally didn't decide that until the month before school started.

[GiGi_41]

My daughter going to 4K and then repeating it again is an option I explored for my daughter. And I will tell you a big reason is because it would cut my daycare expense by 30% each week which when you figure is about 25% of my take home pay a motivating factor. I've actually decided to put her in a preschool program in a different town that will cost me the same as the daycare for a year and the once she's old enough for 4K put her back at the daycare in town. The town I live in is extremely homogenous and is very unaccepting of "strangers" so I'm doing this with a lot of hesitation. There are families here who've had 4 generations graduate from the high school.

[Mama Mia]

Always so much hate on public schools....

It's not hating on public schools to point out that they are not always doing a better job than homeschooling. My daughter is a public school teacher. Most of my kids went to public school all the way through with no issues. A couple of my kids had a difficult time in that setting and had a combination of public school, charter school and home school experiences.

It just irks me when people talk about how horribly educated some young people are and automatically attribute that to having been home schooled-- especially if it is a situation where it is extremely unlikely that the kids they are describing were actually home schooled.

For example, read this article that discusses U.S. literacy rates. One in five adults read below a

5th grade level. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/0 ... 80355.html

Only 3% of U.S. Students currently homeschool, and this is a recent trend. So if you are only considering literacy rates of adults in the U.S., it is highly unlikely that it is homeschoolers who are a significant part of the problem.

[Snarkle]

My kid has always gone to public schools, and my mom was a public school teacher, as were my aunts, and currently my sister-in-law, so we're a family that gets its hackles up when people criticize public school education on the whole. However, my son was always ahead of the kids in his class, and despite my and some of his teachers' best efforts, he was often very bored in school. I finally offered to homeschool him in middle school because by that point he wasn't trying much anymore and I knew he could achieve more if he were challenged. As an only child he decided to stay in school because he liked the social aspect of it, but we sent him to challenging academic programs over the summer and did other enrichment with him. (I also looked into private schools, but none fit out family's needs or were close enough.) Now he is at a technical high school and is with other kids at his level in honors classes and doing well. There are a few kids in his school who were homeschooled until 8th grade and are thriving in public high school. I know if I thought he wasn't being challenged I would consider homeschooling him or sending him abroad to do an academic year while learning a language. He did a correspondence Geometry course this past year and was able to pass out of it for this school year, so there are programs out there. We are fortunate enough to be able to afford, within budget, to send our son to academic programs and for me to homeschool him if it worked for our family, but for many families that isn't possible.

The main problem with the term "homeschooling" is it is SO broad. Just as public schools vary from state to state and town to town in regard to quality, the type and method of homeschooling varies even more. So I try to never criticize homeschooling as a whole, but I do feel justified in doing so when it is a substandard as SOTDRT or other such education types.

(Also, for anyone with kids, homeschoolers or not, one way to gauge a precocious kid's progress and potentially open up more academic doors to them is to sign them up for TIP [Talent Identification Program] through Duke University or CTY [Center for Talented Youth] through Johns Hopkins. 7th graders can take the ACT or SAT and depending on their results, could be eligible for supplemental online, correspondence, and/or summer programs. They also offer testing for younger kids.)