Missouri - new 72-hour abortion waiting period

[RandomTrivia]

Missouri just went farther down the road of stupidity.

http://www.columbiatribune.com/news/politics/lawmakers-pass--hour-abortion-waiting-period/article_965d76e6-dbde-11e3-87d6-001a4bcf6878.html

The bill, sponsored by Rep. Kevin Elmer, R-Nixa, would require a woman to wait 72 hours after visiting a doctor seeking an abortion to have the procedure. Current law requires a woman wait 24 hours after the doctor provides information about the abortion procedure, potential risks involved, including the possibility of a loss of ability to become pregnant in the future, and information about alternatives to abortion.

The information must include a statement that says "life begins at conception" and that abortion will terminate "the life of a separate, unique living human being." Each woman seeking an abortion is required to have an ultrasound showing the fetus.

And so on. They also brought up that study claiming that longer waiting periods led to lower suicide rates among women, and then there were references to various friends who regret their abortions. :angry-banghead:

Us wimmin must be saved from doing anything in haste that we might regret later. Because apparently we live in some alternate universe where you don't have to wait for an appointment with a doctor, among other miracles. I was pregnant (briefly) about 3 years ago. In spite of the fact that I am an established patient at my gyno's practice, and actually had an appointment for my annual checkup coming up very soon, I still had to wait almost a week for an appointment. I expect that kind of wait would also be common after a referral (or whatever it's called) for an abortion. Pretty sure it wouldn't be a same-day thing, but I could be wrong on that. (Am I??) So I had plenty of time to think about options, but because it was before I saw the doctor, that doesn't count, according to certain intruding knuckleheaded legislators in my state. :angry-banghead:

You can't legislate people out of regret. I regret a lot of things - not taking Latin in college, that guy I dated in high school, missed opportunities, not raising hell about some crap in high school. Legislation wouldn't prevent that.

And I can't think (off the top of my head) of any other medical practices where waiting periods have been legislated. Sure, you usually have to wait for a while because of scheduling logistics, but that's not a law. I don't know of any laws making people wait three days before plastic surgery, fertility treatments, or any other non-emergency surgery.

[DrWhat]

Abortion is safer than pregnancy, labor, and delivery goddamn it! What a backwards law to try to shame women further for their choices.

[littlemommy]

I was born and raised in Missouri, From Columbia, in fact! The Planned Parenthood was right across from a crisis pregnancy center, and that fact gave both of them, and everyone else, unlimited headaches.

Missouri is beautiful but it is also a nightmare. Every town I ever lived in there was a mishmash of progressives and the worst of racists. As we were moving away a law was passed that strippers had to wear a bra and underwear during their routines. I'll never understand the Show-Me state.

[uber frau]

Abortion is safer than pregnancy, labor, and delivery goddamn it! What a backwards law to try to shame women further for

their choices.

What is more, women who have early elective abortions have no increased rate of mental health issues compared to women who choose to carry an unplanned pregnancy to term.

And one of the risk factors for women who have an unplanned pregnancy (whether they choose to abort or carry to term) developing mental health issues is living in environment where they don't have the ability to make a free choice, or where the choice they make isn't supported.

So if Missouri gave a flying fuck about women they might actually read some real research and make a proper, informed decision. But we all know what they think of women, and science, and informed decision making.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Informed consent to a medical procedure is not the same as preaching.

"Life begins at conception" and calling an embryo a "life of a separate, unique living human being" are not statements of medical fact. Period. They are moral arguments, which are not universal even among religious people.

If you really want to avoid women having regrets, and really want to make sure that they are making fully informed and voluntary choices, try this: simply have impartial counselors ask them, without judgment, why they are planning to abort. If they say something like, "I don't really want to do this, but I can't pay my bill/can't manage while my husband is deployed/can't cope with a difficult pregnancy and a toddler, then let her know that you will arrange for her to get monthly support and baby supplies, and that you can have a support worker come to her house every day to help out as much as needed.

THAT would be genuinely useful. Creating inconvenience and issuing preachy statements instead of giving actual medical information - not so much.

[jerkit]

All of these laws are for one reason: to get more women past the point where abortion is illegal so they no longer have a choice.

[RandomTrivia]

I was born and raised in Missouri, From Columbia, in fact! The Planned Parenthood was right across from a crisis pregnancy center, and that fact gave both of them, and everyone else, unlimited headaches.

Missouri is beautiful but it is also a nightmare. Every town I ever lived in there was a mishmash of progressives and the worst of racists. As we were moving away a law was passed that strippers had to wear a bra and underwear during their routines. I'll never understand the Show-Me state.

I'm also in Columbia, although raised in a smaller town. PP and the CPC are still on opposite sides of Providence. It's a nice state, although I'm tempted to move a bit north, for not-so-vile summers. My sister says she'll never move back to MO, we're too redneck and conservative for her. Which she says while living in freaking Florida, so it's not like she has a lot of room to talk.

My thing with this waiting period is - is there anywhere that you can go for a same-day, walk-in, no appointment abortion? I kind of doubt there is, short of a sudden medical emergency. So, we're already waiting - for an appointment with a doctor/gyn to confirm the pregnancy, waiting for an appointment with a doctor that will perform the abortion, waiting to coordinate schedules for a ride to/from the procedure. That doesn't even consider waiting to save up money, waiting for a day off work if you don't have sick leave, etc.

So, we're already waiting. And I'm pretty sure that the waiting comes with thinking about what to do or not do. Which means, as far as I can tell, that the only reason for the waiting is to run the clock out on us.

My other point is that I can't think of any other medical procedure that has legislative limits on it. Am I missing any?

I swear, if my brain wasn't already fried by end-of-school crap. I'm very tempted to write Nixon a letter, probably worthless, but :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :cracking-up: end-of-school brain-fry has set in.

[DGayle]

You know what I wish states would start doing? They're claiming that making women look at ultrasounds and all that are better for mental health (I can understand how it's safer for a doctor to see one so he or she isn't just blindly digging around). How about having a mandatory on-the-spot counseling session for the sole purpose, not of preaching, but to try to make sure a woman isn't there because she's being forced or threatened? As far as I know, there's no point before the start of the procedure where the doctor can mandate everyone other than the woman clear the room, and for women being forced, they might feel it's too late to say no when they're on the table. So a mandatory period when everyone is out of the room, and someone can ask the woman if she feels forced to be there, and offering help to any who say yes or who are scared of what's happening at home, or to give a woman a chance to say she doesn't want to do this, but doesn't know what else to do when there might be options she doesn't know about. THAT is what will help the women who are likely to go off committing suicide.

Someone who is there 100% by her own choice won't go off killing herself. The women who are being forced, or who might not know about how to sign up for financial help who would if they knew, are the ones who may, and I think it's important not to overlook them just for the sake of saying no one ever gets depressed. A 72-hour waiting period won't be what gives the help. Do the lawmakers really think you get two lines on a test, and go down right that second and get vacuumed within the hour, instead of waiting for an appointment? Time alone with a doctor or counselor to give her a chance to speak without being intimidated by anyone else with her will help her.

But Missouri is the "don't say gay" state, where a cousin of mine is gay and can't tell anyone other than me because she's scared, and where another cousin had a very dangerous, unplanned pregnancy and wanted her tubes tied, told the doctor early on that she wanted her tubes tied during the c-section, and found out the day of her c-section that she had to sign starting a 30-day wait, and that she'd have to have it done another day (that's right, the goddamned fucking doctor tricked her so she couldn't get her tubes tied in the same surgery). I hate that state. Of course they'll say a wait is what will help the women who may get depressed.

[DGayle]

I should have read other comments first. I'm not the only one with the thoughts I had.

Question. If a woman wants an abortion, does she call up the doctor, make an appointment to go in, and it's done then?

Or is it like every other surgical procedure I know of where you go in for a consultation where your medical history is discussed, the procedure is explained, any consent needing to be signed, being told if you'll need someone else to drive you home, and any other pre-op stuff, and the it being scheduled for a few days late? In which case, there's already a wait after seeing the doctor once.

Getting my wisdom teeth pulled required scheduling another visit since I didn't have someone else to drive me home, and they didn't let patients drive themselves after getting so much anesthesia, even though it was local. So I think the second option would be safer. But it sounds like Missouri wants to add more time to the already-built-in wait of even the initial appointment.

[lilyanne]

You know what I wish states would start doing? They're claiming that making women look at ultrasounds and all that are better for mental health (I can understand how it's safer for a doctor to see one so he or she isn't just blindly digging around). How about having a mandatory on-the-spot counseling session for the sole purpose, not of preaching, but to try to make sure a woman isn't there because she's being forced or threatened? As far as I know, there's no point before the start of the procedure where the doctor can mandate everyone other than the woman clear the room, and for women being forced, they might feel it's too late to say no when they're on the table. So a mandatory period when everyone is out of the room, and someone can ask the woman if she feels forced to be there, and offering help to any who say yes or who are scared of what's happening at home, or to give a woman a chance to say she doesn't want to do this, but doesn't know what else to do when there might be options she doesn't know about. THAT is what will help the women who are likely to go off committing suicide.

This right here is gold! I thought I had gotten pregnant in college. I told the guy that I was with and all he said was "well, I had better make an appointment for abortion." Um excuse me? Don't I get a say? Regardless of being planned or not, MY choice would be to keep the baby. The guy started playing mind games on me, twisting things to make it like it was my only option. After all, he wasn't ready to be a dad, and his mother would kill him. Everything in his life would be over!!! Not once was I asked what I thought. He had already started borrowing money and made an appointment for me! Thankfully, I did eventually start (2weeks late). I dumped his ass so fast. If I would have been pregnant though, not sure how it would have turned out. If no one asked if I was being forced, I probably would have gone thru with termination. No one else knew, my parents would have flipped if they did, and he was all over me pressuring me, making sure I knew how badly a baby would have ruined his life.

[DGayle]

This right here is gold! I thought I had gotten pregnant in college. I told the guy that I was with and all he said was "well, I had better make an appointment for abortion." Um excuse me? Don't I get a say? Regardless of being planned or not, MY choice would be to keep the baby. The guy started playing mind games on me, twisting things to make it like it was my only option. After all, he wasn't ready to be a dad, and his mother would kill him. Everything in his life would be over!!! Not once was I asked what I thought. He had already started borrowing money and made an appointment for me! Thankfully, I did eventually start (2weeks late). I dumped his ass so fast. If I would have been pregnant though, not sure how it would have turned out. If no one asked if I was being forced, I probably would have gone thru with termination. No one else knew, my parents would have flipped if they did, and he was all over me pressuring me, making sure I knew how badly a baby would have ruined his life.

Sometimes no one thinks to ask, and a simple question in a safe environment can break the manipulative control someone else has. Doctors have an obligation to do their jobs, but part of patient care should include making sure that no one is being manipulated, coerced, or otherwise forced, into any non-medically-necessary irreversible procedure. The place I had some minor plastic surgery done has, as part of their routine, making sure no one's having work done because they think they have to to please someone else. This is a good thing. And when it comes to abortions, being railroaded, like you were being, is what can cause depression. I'm so glad you started instead of being forced into something you wouldn't have wanted, though my heart aches that you had to go through that roller coaster at all. The silver lining though is you learned his true character before possibly going into a committed, long-term relationship.

[Coconut Flan]

I live in the blessed land of one stop shop and a Planned Parenthood every few miles. The vast majority of abortions here are done by pills. Call and make an appt, go in and have pregnancy confirmed, get pills and instructions. Go back in a few days to make sure all has passed properly. I know at our family doctors' office, most people see the nurse-practitioner and they can usually get seen that day or the next if they call before 9 AM.

[FJismyheadship]

Even if a woman regrets it later, guess what? We all make mistakes! Everyone has done something they regret, and if they could go back they would change it. It's all part of life, and learning to grow and becoming a better person.

[Jana814]

All of these laws are for one reason: to get more women past the point where abortion is illegal so they no longer have a choice.

Soo true!!

[dora]

A friend of mine had one a few years ago and from the time she had her first appointment until when she was able to have the procedure was about three weeks. I'm mostly against abortion, and our laws are a joke (it's essentially only legal if continuing the pregnancy would cause severe emotional or physical injury to the woman, but in actuality it is a rubber stamp process, you have to see a counsellor but at no point did anyone try to talk my friend out of her decision or offer any alternatives.).

I thought it was pretty cruel that she had to wait that long, I'm not sure why that was or if that is the normal length of time, I don't know anyone else who has had one (that I know about).

[RosyDaisy]

Soo true!!

I agree! You see some men realize that women have the one power they don't...the ability to bring forth life. Sure it requires both an egg and sperm to create life, but ultimately it is the woman who brings forth new life. These men always have and always will try to find some way to control that.

[FakePigtails]

It looks like the governor's considering a veto. Let's hope he does so.

In a statement released by Gov. Nixon Thursday, he said that the bill would get the same “comprehensive review†that all legislation receives. “However, it is clear that by failing to include an exception for rape and incest, this extreme proposal would separate Missouri from all but one other state in the nation,†said Nixon. “I have profound concerns about its impact on women and especially the victims of these heinous crimes.â€

http://rhrealitycheck.org/article/2014/ ... riod-bill/

[RandomTrivia]

Apparently there's still a bit of sanity left - Gov. Nixon vetoed the waiting period, and I guess was pretty blunt about it. :) From Salon (www.salon.com/2014/07/02/missouri_gover ... _to_women/) - a I like this quote from a grad student.

a University of Missouri master’s student told lawmakers that she would like to testify agains the measure — but would need to wait 72 hours so they would know that she meant what she said.

“I would like you to be able to trust in my opinions,†Dina van der Zalm told the committee. “Since this bill … makes the assumption that women are not capable of making difficult decisions without the aid of politicians requiring additional time — an additional three days — to really think it through, then I can only assume that you’re not going to legitimately listen [to] or value the opinions I would like to state today.

“I would like to take your recommended waiting period and return Monday after I’ve had time to really think through my decisions,†she continued. “I’m pretty sure of how I feel. I’m pretty sure it’s not going to change at all.â€

We'll see how long it take the Republicans to start trying to override the veto.