Catholic, I need your advice

[Marianne]

Hello to all the catholic/ex-catholic of FJ

One of my friends have a 19 yo son. He think that he's called to be a brother or priest, and is interrested in some community. My friend have visited some of this community, and have a bad feelings about them. I and she would love to have your advice, if you know them.

-Legion of Christ (He have speak with some of them. I have read about them, and it seems to be a cult.)

-Mile Jesu (He just have read about it)

- Community of St John

- Community St Martin

- Opus Dei (no comment...)

- He have think of some traditionnalist community, like this : http://www.icrsp.org/accueil.htm

Thank you for your help !

[louisa05]

Are there no normal Benedictine type communities?

St Martin seems quite above board from my quick read just now. And your no comment must indicate that you know about Opus Dei??

Honestly, my suggestion would be that if he wants to pursue the priesthood, he seek out the director of vocations (or equivalent office in France) in his diocese and get help with the decision and some direction there. If he goes through seminary, he can make a decision about pursuing communal or monastic life later if that is indeed what he wants.

[Marianne]

Yes, I know about Opus Dei, they are a lot of priest of this mouvement where I go in Spain.

No, he seems to love young movement. Here, Community St John & Community St Martin are very young and have a lot of vocation. I have never heard him speaking about an interest on monastic community (benedictine, cistercian...), more priesthood in a community. He's in contact with the diocese, also our bishop have help a community where the fondator is a pedophile and where they are accusation of cult, so I don't trust the diocese.

[latraviata]

Société de Jésus ( jésuites) At least they are properly educated, to say the least.....

[louisa05]

I obviously cannot speak to your locale, but in the U.S. each diocese has a vocations director and the bishop would not be directly involved in that matter. But if there is reason not to trust the local people, there is nothing that says a young man or woman desiring to enter a vocation could not reach out to the officials in another diocese. A priest I know very well, grew up in and was an independent working adult in a neighboring diocese. But when he discerned his vocation, he knew that he did not agree with how that diocese is managed or some of its practices, so he came to the neighboring diocese instead.

[Dysfundamental]

Community of St. John is also a source of concern to cult-watchers.

If he's so interested in these ultra-traditionalist movements, it's hard for me to imagine that a mainstream order like the Franciscans or Benedictines would appeal to him. Which is sad, because those orders do good work IMO.

Community of St. Martin is very mainstream as far as I know (pro-Vatican 2 and vernacular liturgy) so that seems by far the best out of that list.

[Cran]

Hello to all the catholic/ex-catholic of FJ

-Legion of Christ (He have speak with some of them. I have read about them, and it seems to be a cult.)

-Mile Jesu (He just have read about it)

- Community of St John

- Community St Martin

- Opus Dei (no comment...)

- He have think of some traditionnalist community, like this : http://www.icrsp.org/accueil.htm

I know nothing about Mile Jesu, Community of St. John or St. Martin.

Judging from the others, he seems to be interested in pretty conservative communities, which is not bad in itself, but from the communities, different as they are in their spirituality and work, and are, mostly, no monastic orders but secular institutes, he's interested in, it seems to me he is more going for... well... a showy effect, wants to be special, and not a mature vocation. Apart from getting in contact with the vocation office at his diocese, I strongly recommend he gets in touch with his parish priest and seeks a spiritual director to discern his vocation.

Legion of Christ: Scandal, scandal, scandal. It's always risky to align yourself with a community that has been so tainted by abuse scandals. I wouldn't do it. And the members I know are obsessed with demons and see them at every corner, which seems very unhealthy to me.

Opus Dei: They are really not as bad as they are painted in the press (Dan Brown...). Yes, they are very elitist and in Spain also heavily involved in politics, and some members do practice bodily mortification, but in other ways, they are quite "normal", as far as that goes within the church. The are no order, they are a personal prelature, and you can enter them in different ways, being a priest, a celibate lay member or a non-celibate lay member, the last two may also live at their own homes and not at housing provided by the prelature.

Institute Christ the King (the last one you linked to): This is a community with a very limited vocation, to celebrate the mass in the old Tridentine rite. And that's about all they do, with much pomp, and they are rumoured to be very rich. But they are friendly and no-nonsense with their vocations.

[Georgiana]

American Catholic here. And I'm only familiar with Opus Dei off that list....which isn't good. Good movements/Groups usually cross the pond fairly quickly.

Traditionalist Movements are more likely to be cultish/sketchy IMO because they are often not fully sanctioned/overseen by the Church. Vatican II was a legitimate Church Council, and to oppose it is to not be within the Church (ecumenical councils have power over the WHOLE CHURCH and all of it's branches). There ARE loopholes to the changes brought about by VII, and some Traditionalist movements are legit. But those are very, very few. To be fair you guys (Europe) have more of them than we (America) do, so it could be that these are actually Church sanctioned movements that just never crossed the pond because we're not generally fans of Traditionalism.

But my general advice is to be very, very wary of any Traditionalist movement.

I agree with what other posters have said: work with your local diocese to make sure whatever group your son goes into is legitimate. If you don't feel comfortable with your diocese, you should be able to work with a different one (or you would be able to here). We're not exactly swimming in vocational candidates right now, so I'd be surprised if they made it difficult for you. Then again, European Catholic Churches run a little differently.

If I had to pick and order, I'd go with the Jesuits. Wonderful order. TONS of different callings within the order. Opportunity for global travel.

Benedictines and Franciscans are also cool. Keep in mind that there are also priests in these orders, so if your son doesn't want monastic life, but still likes their vows/philosophy, they are still options! In the US they tend to be placed in schools/universities, so if he has a calling for the youth, they're a great option!

[paganhomeschooler]

I was going to recommend Jesuit, also. Growing up, our Jesuit priests were always the best!

[mockingbird]

Another American Catholic and I would agree with Georgiana.

Legion of Christ I think was the order featured in the recent PBS doc (Frontline?) about the sex abuse scandals in the church. I wouldn't go with them based on that alone. The only other one I am familiar with is Opus Dei and they are pretty extremist IMO.

As far as orders I am familiar with: Two come to mind that are focused on service and international missions, Marianists and Dominicans. Benedictines and Franciscans (University of Notre Dame) are often teachers/professors in the US although all of the priests at my church growing up were Benedictines. Jesuits are also very intellectual, but if he's interested in something more Traditionalist I'm not sure he'd go for this order - they are probably the most liberal order. I do love Jesuits though, all of the ones I've met have been very interesting people! The Benedictines tended to be quieter and a little more conservative, and more of what you'd think of as a "stereotypical priest".

Definitely agree though he needs to get in contact with someone from his diocese or even a priest he trusts now. From what I have heard in the US, you need to have discussed your vocation with a spiritual director and have their recommendation before you join an order.

[Cleopatra7]

I'm an ex-traditionalist, so I'm familiar with the Institute of Christ the King. The charism of this group is to perform the 1962 version of the Latin Mass. I haven't heard anything culty or sketchy about this group, so if your friend's son is conservative-oriented that is probably a good choice. The Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP) is a similar group that focuses on the Latin Mass. Both the FSSP and the Institute of Christ the King are Vatican approved, unlike the Society of St. Pius or some of the sedevantist groups. If your friend's son is conservative or traditional, I don't think he'd like the Jesuits, given their reputations for being progressive. I agree with the others who say that the Legion of Christ is culty. It's just scandal after scandal after scandal. They don't seem to even have a legitimate charism. I don't know about any of the other groups, but I hope what information I have is helpful.

[Mela99]

Here to add "go Jesuit". Very well educated, and they embrace arts and sciences and social justice.

[theologygeek]

I don't like any on the list. My opinion... Jesuits=best priests ever Franciscans-second choice

[Megan]

(snip)

As far as orders I am familiar with: Two come to mind that are focused on service and international missions, Marianists and Dominicans. Benedictines and Franciscans (University of Notre Dame) are often teachers/professors in the US although all of the priests at my church growing up were Benedictines.(snip)

Notre Dame is actually associated with Holy Cross (CSC), not the Franciscans.

I'm mostly familiar with mainstream groups that have been mentioned before (Jesuits, Franciscans, etc). It looks as though he is looking at some rather conservative groups. Does he know anyone who has taken orders? If not, he should see if it is possible to get in touch with some young seminarians. It may be difficult - a lot of groups limit contact outside the community when men enter - but he ought to know what's going on day-to-day in these places.

[mockingbird]

Notre Dame is actually associated with Holy Cross (CSC), not the Franciscans.

I'm mostly familiar with mainstream groups that have been mentioned before (Jesuits, Franciscans, etc). It looks as though he is looking at some rather conservative groups. Does he know anyone who has taken orders? If not, he should see if it is possible to get in touch with some young seminarians. It may be difficult - a lot of groups limit contact outside the community when men enter - but he ought to know what's going on day-to-day in these places.

Oh geez... one of my best friends went there, I should've known that :doh: Thanks!

I do know Fransicans otherwise, so I'm still supporting them.

[Cran]

As a student of a SJ-university, I can attest to them being liberal.

For someone considering religious life, you have to keep in mind concerning Jesuits that they are very different from other communities, their communal life is sparse, they do not pray the liturgy of the hours together in the way Benedictines and similar orders do, have no habit, will frequently travel a lot and be not stable, and have a very long time of formation. And you have to be really intellectually-minded, apart from having to get the usual studies going with becoming a priest, they will ask for a second degree in another field.

So I'd be careful to recommend Jesuits as the "to go"-community especially for people with an interest in traditional Catholicism, they are not only liberal in their teachings and habits (one Jesuit I know quite well boasts about not having worn a collar since his ordination) but also no fans of the traditional mass and other traditional expressions of piety.

[Marianne]

I sent the same question to the monk with whom I work for my thesis. I received a response in 11 pages word :lol: He seems worried. Say that this boy is the "the perfect victim for Catholics cults" "and will never be accepted in non-sectarian movement as ICRSP or Saint Martin (celebrating Mass Vatican 2 with Gregorian chant. I already love them.) He is very worried about Legion of Christ, because the recruiters have to present the number of young boy that they have met and enlisted to their directors, which means that the priest he have meet will never let him go. He offered to him to go to a retreat in his abbey (St Pierre de Solesmes, very traditionnal in liturgy, but with sweet monks.)

Cran : I don't like Dan Brown, so my mistrust against Opus Dei come from with my experience with them in Spain. I agree with you about the "no mature". I speak with him about gregorian, because I study it, and he just tell me "It's beautifull and old, so it's better". After month studying papal encyclicals and Dom Guéranger, I thought it was very... Immature to say it. And it's way his mother and I are worried. He believe all that people say to him.

[latraviata]

I sent the same question to the monk with whom I work for my thesis. I received a response in 11 pages word :lol: He seems worried. Say that this boy is the "the perfect victim for Catholics cults" "and will never be accepted in non-sectarian movement as ICRSP or Saint Martin (celebrating Mass Vatican 2 with Gregorian chant. I already love them.) He is very worried about Legion of Christ, because the recruiters have to present the number of young boy that they have met and enlisted to their directors, which means that the priest he have meet will never let him go. He offered to him to go to a retreat in his abbey (St Pierre de Solesmes, very traditionnal in liturgy, but with sweet monks.)

Cran : I don't like Dan Brown, so my mistrust against Opus Dei come from with my experience with them in Spain. I agree with you about the "no mature". I speak with him about gregorian, because I study it, and he just tell me "It's beautifull and old, so it's better". After month studying papal encyclicals and Dom Guéranger, I thought it was very... Immature to say it. And it's way his mother and I are worried. He believe all that people say to him.

You can safely compare Opus Dei with any ultra American Baptist fundamentalist movement.

[bea]

I'm the daughter of a former Catholic priest (and yes, my mom.was a nun). My dad was not part of an order - he was a diocesan priest who worked for the bishop in the Chancery, and served as a pastor. If some one really believes he is being Called, he should talk to the discernment office at the Chancery or the Diocese.

I attended Loyola, where I met and admired MANY Jesuits (it's said they tale their vows to Truth, then to God). I am also familiar, through my dad, with a lot of Orders - Benedictine, Franciscan, Holy Cross (that's Notre Dame' s order). In Chicago, at least, Opus Dei is considered barely Catholic, a kind of nutty fringe group. There is 1 Opus Dei church - St. John Cantius. If he wants Tradionalist Catholic, he's going to have to go fringe, I suspect.

[Katydid]

Tell your friend to gently push him towards the Dominicans, Jesuits, Benedictines, or Franciscans. Or, better yet, ask her to encourage him to get a spiritual director at his local parish. A good parish priest will likely be able to keep him away from the traditionalist movements, which are a bit sketchy, to be honest.

I'm still a churchgoer, and thrilled to hear about vocations, but the traditionalist movements are generally things that worry me.

[Ave Maria]

I'm a traditional Catholic (Latin Mass only), just in the interest of full disclosure.

I would avoid Opus Dei -- they are rather sketchy about what goes on at their meetings, etc. I've known a few people who have gone to their meetings, and they always will tell you it's not what you think, but then they wouldn't say what it actually IS. (This was before I attended the Latin Mass -- my understanding is that Opus Dei is pretty post-Vatican II in their thinking. Most Traditionalists are a bit uncomfortable with the founder of Opus Dei's canonization, but I've never dug into the whys and wherefores on that.)

The Institute of Christ the King is a solid group -- they are focused on the Latin Mass, but they also have undisputed faculties. If he is dedicated to the Latin Mass, that might be the best fit for him.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Here to add "go Jesuit". Very well educated, and they embrace arts and sciences and social justice.

Pope Francis is a Jesuit, and I know a lot of current Catholics as well as lapsed and recovering Catholics (I'm a recovering Catholic turned Unitarian) like him. The only Catholics who seem to truly despise him are extremists like Stinking Lousewife, but she's just a basic bitch.

[musikat]

I'm also going to give a plug for the Jesuits. I'm a big fan of that community. When I got my Master's Degree I actually chose a private Catholic University that was run by Jesuits.

[Eighth-of-eleven]

I went to Catholic schools and was taught by Marist brothers, Dominican brothers, and priests, in my grade school we had diocesan priests. I have great affection for the Dominicans.Two of my school friends went on to be priests, one a Jesuit. Both are very happy in their vocations.

[47of74]

Pope Francis is a Jesuit, and I know a lot of current Catholics as well as lapsed and recovering Catholics (I'm a recovering Catholic turned Unitarian) like him. The only Catholics who seem to truly despise him are extremists like Stinking Lousewife, but she's just a basic bitch.

Yeah, all the right wingers where I live complain all the time about how Francis is a socialist and how he's leading the church to ruin. These were the same right wingers who were always up in other people's faces about how we had to obey the Pope in all things when Benedict or JP II were in charge.