Lori Alexander praises purity balls

[salex]

It was common in many rural communities in the past for most brides to be pregnant at the alter. When there was minimal property to be transferred, knowing a woman could produce children (future labourers) was much more important than her virginity or sometimes even the paternity of her first baby. When there isn't really an estate to consider, better raise what may possibly be another man's child and exploit that child's labor, in the knowledge that your wife was fertile and more children were highly likely to come, than to marry a virgin and risk farming your patch alone forever and having nobody to care for you in your old age if the bride ended up being infertile.

Look at rural marriage registers from all over Europe in the middle and early modern ages. These often undernourished peasants weren't having dozens of healthy premies. I have read that the same custom was common in rural china, though I haven't looked at any primary sources to back that up.

Some of the research I did in this area (over a decade ago) said the pregnant bride and her groom might also have a toddler when they wed, for all the reasons you state.... proof of fecundity, future labor force, proof she could carry to term, etc. Wonder how the patriarchs and their stay at home daughters like that model of the perfect and godly past they seem to think existed in their fantasy world where morality never changed until the last 50 years....

[latraviata]

It was common in many rural communities in the past for most brides to be pregnant at the alter. When there was minimal property to be transferred, knowing a woman could produce children (future labourers) was much more important than her virginity or sometimes even the paternity of her first baby. When there isn't really an estate to consider, better raise what may possibly be another man's child and exploit that child's labor, in the knowledge that your wife was fertile and more children were highly likely to come, than to marry a virgin and risk farming your patch alone forever and having nobody to care for you in your old age if the bride ended up being infertile.

Look at rural marriage registers from all over Europe in the middle and early modern ages. These often undernourished peasants weren't having dozens of healthy premies. I have read that the same custom was common in rural china, though I haven't looked at any primary sources to back that up.

That was most certainly the case in rural Holland.

[Anny Nym]

@latraviata, Wasn´t it prefered if the bride could offer a baby (from the groom) along with linnen in her "bride basket" in rural Holland?

In strictly catholic Corinthia and Salzburg, the number of school children born out of wedlock often outruled the number of "legitimate" ones at Common People´s Schools. :lol:

I hate to bring Trapps in any conversation, but here they are actually useful for once as the whimsy movie is a fundie staple :lol: : Georg L. Trapp, back when he still was a Ritter, married Agathe Whitehead in spring 1912, AFTER the oldest child was born, his second wife Maria was already pregnant when they married and it´s common knowledge at least one of Maria´s kids was from the accompanying priest - so.... HA!

Also, I really like to make a thread about the screaming hypocrisy of fundies hating on and "sheltering" their children from common music, may it be John Lennon or My Chemical Romance - you get the picture - because of the musican´s "bad lifestyle" (also, see the J´slaves book quote on that subject) .... but let them happily play and listen to classical music, which was for a great part written by whoring drunkyards with gambling and drug issues, who also often catched syphillis... So Sex, Drugs and Rock´n Roll, just 200 years earlier. :character-beavisbutthead:

[salex]

@latraviata, Wasn´t it prefered if the bride could offer a baby (from the groom) along with linnen in her "bride basket" in rural Holland?

In strictly catholic Corinthia and Salzburg, the number of school children born out of wedlock often outruled the number of "legitimate" ones at Common People´s Schools. :lol:

I hate to bring Trapps in any conversation, but here they are actually useful for once as the whimsy movie is a fundie staple :lol: : Georg L. Trapp, back when he still was a Ritter, married Agathe Whitehead in spring 1912, AFTER the oldest child was born, his second wife Maria was already pregnant when they married and it´s common knowledge at least one of Maria´s kids was from the accompanying priest - so.... HA!

Also, I really like to make a thread about the screaming hypocrisy of fundies hating on and "sheltering" their children from common music, may it be John Lennon or My Chemical Romance - you get the picture - because of the musican´s "bad lifestyle" (also, see the J´slaves book quote on that subject) .... but let them happily play and listen to classical music, which was for a great part written by whoring drunkyards with gambling and drug issues, who also often catched syphillis... So Sex, Drugs and Rock´n Roll, just 200 years earlier. :character-beavisbutthead:

Oh, you mean "Wine, Women and Song!!"

[Anny Nym]

Oh, you mean "Wine, Women and Song!!"

Or to say it more refined, yes! :mrgreen:

[salex]

Or to say it more refined, yes! :mrgreen:

There is nothing new under the sun.... yet the fundies seem to think we live in a less holy time than did our ancestors.

[latraviata]

Oh, you mean "Wine, Women and Song!!"

Yes, it was, she had to prove fertility.

About 50 years ago it still was the case. Especially among the very orthodox protestants, read fundies.

One of my old friends grew up in this tradition. His parents got married (about 60 years ago) with a dowry and a baby. As a wedding present, the family sent them both to the dentist to have their (perectly healthy teeth) extracted and bought them dentures. So they did not have to worry about any dental expenses for the rest of their lives.

[Anny Nym]

Yes, it was, she had to prove fertility.

About 50 years ago it still was the case. Especially among the very orthodox protestants, read fundies.

One of my old friends grew up in this tradition. His parents got married (about 60 years ago) with a dowry and a baby. As a wedding present, the family sent them both to the dentist to have their (perectly healthy teeth) extracted and bought them dentures. So they did not have to worry about any dental expenses for the rest of their lives.

:cracking-up:

I guess, we could write that off as one of the "exotic" yet pragmatic ways, people in the 1950s take on on the blessings of a fast modernisation in daily life?

Another burning question: how did the "bride basket" actually look like? Is "basket" the right translation? And was a baby literally propped in the basket ina kind-of symbolic way, as for example linnen were propped for everyone to see at a wedding on the chest/closet over here?

[latraviata]

:cracking-up:

I guess, we could write that off as one of the "exotic" yet pragmatic ways, people in the 1950s take on on the blessings of a fast modernisation in daily life?

Another burning question: how did the "bride basket" actually look like? Is "basket" the right translation? And was a baby literally propped in the basket ina kind-of symbolic way, as for example linnen were propped for everyone to see at a wedding on the chest/closet over here?

No basket, the saved up by the bride/groom and family household items or a gift from the wedding guests were presented at the party after the ceremony. Picture it, no dancing no music, other than some old men, after absorbing jenever (Dutch gin) sitting next to each other monotonously chanting 'shake your booty, shake your booty, lalalalalalalaLA'.

Rich rural people's dowry was usually, money, land or a farm.

All of this was very rare and happened predominantly in the bible belt.

The bride very often wore the particular regional attire or a home sewed very modest white gown, if they were poor, their sunday's best (church outfit) or a borrowed dress.

No, the baby wasn't presented in a basket.

Which reminds me of Thomas Mann's 'The Buddenbrooks', after the baptism, the baby was presented at dinner or luch in an enormous silver bowl in the middle of the table.

[PennySycamore]

My daughter had some friends over last night, and they were admiring one of the girls' (catholic) purity ring that her father gave her for her birthday. She says "you guys should get one" one girl says "I'm a lesbian. I'm not the target audience" another says "I don't think my purity is my father's business" my daughter says"I'm not waiting for marriage. That doesn't make me impure". The other 3 girls look horrified, and say "you can't say that in front of your mom". I said "why not? We're very open about these things. Her self worth has nothing to do with what has or has not been in her vagina. And neither does yours" they were all shocked, and said their parents would be really mad if they had sex. I don't get why. I'd only be mad if she was stupid about it.

Brava!! to both you and to those girls, I say again Brava! Well done!

ETA: I had not read all through this thread but I did not know that Georg von Trapp had gotten his first wife pregnant before the wedding, too. I knew about Maria being pregnant at the altar, but not Agatha. I also did not know about Maria and Father Wasner, I think it was.

edited for riffle

[SunnyAndrsn]

Those are some pretty un-modest wedding dresses that Lori's girls wore. Just sayin'...

[lilith]

Those are some pretty un-modest wedding dresses that Lori's girls wore. Just sayin'...

Lori is very fond of "do as I say not as I do" reasoning.

Like contraception and family planning being wrong and selfish, for everybody except her and maybe her daughters.

Ken still hasn't explained how his desire for his daughters to have "as many children as they want, maybe 4" is compatible with Lori "teaching" younger women, who presumably include her daughters and daughters in law, that it is selfish and wilful to use contraception and that they should accept as many blessings as god sends.

[Hane]

Our own MamaJuneBug once made the sage suggestion that the term "purity ball" should only be used to denote some kind of gizmo one adds to the laundry to disinfect it and make it smell nice. I concur wholeheartedly.

[samurai_sarah]

Our own MamaJuneBug once made the sage suggestion that the term "purity ball" should only be used to denote some kind of gizmo one adds to the laundry to disinfect it and make it smell nice. I concur wholeheartedly.

Now, that's a purity ball, I'd spend money on. And would whole-heartedly support.

[GolightlyGrrl]

Purity Balls would be a great name for a drag queen.

[salex]

Purity Balls would be a great name for a drag queen.

If you go to Youtube you can find Drag acts at Drag Carnage: Purity Ball edition on 12/29/13

[latraviata]

blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/04/02/8-reasons-purity-balls-are-just-plain-creepy-and-wrong/