I feel sad for Anna T

[prairiemuffin]

Hello! I found this board because of my extreme irritation with Mrs. Anna T, so hooray for that!

She now has a new response post up that whines about the responses that she got from her last post. Basically says that stopping having kids for a while is not an option, and she's shocked at how people made that conclusion, because why would she ever do that?

[Sarah]

I'm new to her blog and so confused--is she Jewish, or Christian-but-enamored-with-Judaism? Most Orthodox women don't stay at home full time or anything, so the rhetoric seems off for someone with a Jewish background.

[Guest Anonymous]

She's definitely a conservative orthodox Jew. There's plenty on here and on her blog to confirm that.

I feel tired just reading her blog - the exhaustion must be contagious! :lol:

Poor misunderstood, speshul snowflake Anna... :roll:

[demgirl]

I don't think she's a very good representation of orthodox Jews, but that's certainly what she seems to be. I have trouble reading her blog -- her posts are long, boring and whiny. If you're going to be whiny, at least be brief or amusing in the process.

[fundiefan]

She is an Orthodox Jew but she has allowed herself to be highly influenced by fundie Christians online. She's an LAF fan and has written for them and she has taken on a butt load of fundie values. I don't believe her mom is a practicing Jew so she doesn't have role models or support in her life, choices and religion. She grew up pretty secular and made the choice to be a weak homemaker on her own; if I remember correctly, it was against her mother's wishes. So, she gets support and information online. I find it kind of insanely ridiculous that an Orthodox Jew in Israel is hanging with fundie Christians in the United States, but, whatever works, I guess.

[pomology]

She is an Orthodox Jew but she has allowed herself to be highly influenced by fundie Christians online. She's an LAF fan and has written for them and she has taken on a butt load of fundie values. I don't believe her mom is a practicing Jew so she doesn't have role models or support in her life, choices and religion. She grew up pretty secular and made the choice to be a weak homemaker on her own; if I remember correctly, it was against her mother's wishes. So, she gets support and information online. I find it kind of insanely ridiculous that an Orthodox Jew in Israel is hanging with fundie Christians in the United States, but, whatever works, I guess.

Yeah, I got the idea (I don't remember if Anna ever stated it outright or if this was just my suspicion) that her family were completely secularized Soviet Jews living in Israel, so I can see how she might feel pretty disconnected to most of the religious Jewish community and went online and found fundie Christians and for some reason found their special brand of misogyny appealing. What I don't get, is why her husband, who I presume grew up Ortho would put up with the Christian fundie nonsense.

Edited to add a little clarification.

[OnceModestTwiceShy]

I wonder if, because of her energy issues, she feels alienated from the lifestyle of a woman in an Orthodox Jewish community. As many have said, Orthodox women are not shrinking violets falling on fainting couches - they tend to be practical and level-headed. On top of that, there is a lot of visiting, hosting, and socializing, as well as helping neighbors and extended family with housework, childcare, etc., and maybe Anna doesn't feel like she's up to it. The hyper-cloistered/feminine mystique ideals of American QF fundamentalism reinforce her natural propensity towards being a damsel-in-distress all the time. I can't imagine her telling, for example, an Orthodox rabbi's wife, mom of 12, who teaches Hebrew school and hosts 40+ people at her house every Shabbos, how much she longs for the elegant days of pre-Industrial life illustrated by Jane Austen, and getting any sympathy whatsoever.

[Dinorah]

I once read an article by a rabbi that said that Jews from the former Soviet Union were more likely to fall prey to Jews for Jesus because they haven't really ever had a chance to practice Jewish traditions and are ignorant of Judaism. While Anna hasn't turned actually messianic, I wonder if she isn't so drawn to Christian-type fundamentalism because she lacks a personal tradition coming from a Russian secular background and so made up one of her own, and for some reason latched onto Christian fundiesm (most of her commenters and the blogs she follow seem to be Christian). She had to bend herself out of shape once to explain how wifely submission is a Jewish concept.

But yes, it does sound like she really doesn't want another child, at least not right now, but feels she can do nothg about that. I sort of feel sorry for her, but I find her irritating because she seems to have no clue whatsoever that perhaps things she doesn't want to do herself aren't universally wrong.

[dawbs]

I'm a little surprised that she's so open about her dread of becoming pregnant again. She doesn't even couch her concern in terms of, "Oh, it is hard, but the rewards ultimately outweigh the costs."

I think that's what today's post covers :roll:

Common wisdom would perhaps say, “wait, you only have one spare bedroom. You can’t possibly accommodate more than two children with tolerable comfort!†– but bedrooms are of shorter consequence and lesser value than people.

[Not That Kind of Dr]

Interesting that Mrs. Anna T.'s take on being at the maternity hospital over Shabbat with Tehilla seems to have changed between her post of June 16, 2010, and her post of August 15, 2011:

I also loved staying at the hospital during Shabbat. The staff and just about all the new mothers were religious (at least I didn't notice even one woman without a hair covering), and there was a beautiful Shabbat atmosphere. We had delicious meals, people shut off their cell phones, and there were no swarms of visitors – just the few who were within walking distance. ‬

So, was it a lovely, relaxing experience or a stressful ordeal that left you in tears? Either's fine. Just pick one.

[pimpom]

So, in Anna's reactions to the comments blogpost #2 she stated that her children are not a source of stress to her. OK, fair enough.

Then, in another reaction she says that she doesn't believe in the "myth' of overpopulation :shock: . That doesn't make me warm to her At All.

Maybe that's the weird fascinating thing about her. Her messages about interaction with society at large are all Fainting Talk, but her political opinions and stances are all Fighting Talk.

So it's like we never get to work out whether she is strong or weak, and clearly that irks me (don't know why).

One last though I had: and I say this with the utmost respect and am ready to be told otherwise: Both in my personal and anecdotal experience with Israelis I have found them to be people who would do anything for you, but also people who are SUPER RUDE and very tough.(and proud of it > hence their nickname for themselves, 'sabra's' = prickly pears). Maybe their inherent rudeness combined with what can happen to people in the service industry makes for a potent mix of nastyness that even we would find hard to stomach?

[demgirl]

Interesting that Mrs. Anna T.'s take on being at the maternity hospital over Shabbat with Tehilla seems to have changed between her post of June 16, 2010, and her post of August 15, 2011: So, was it a lovely, relaxing experience or a stressful ordeal that left you in tears? Either's fine. Just pick one.

This is a truly excellent catch. :clap:

[Beeks]

So, in Anna's reactions to the comments blogpost #2 she stated that her children are not a source of stress to her. OK, fair enough.

Then, in another reaction she says that she doesn't believe in the "myth' of overpopulation :shock: . That doesn't make me warm to her At All.

Maybe that's the weird fascinating thing about her. Her messages about interaction with society at large are all Fainting Talk, but her political opinions and stances are all Fighting Talk.

So it's like we never get to work out whether she is strong or weak, and clearly that irks me (don't know why).

One last though I had: and I say this with the utmost respect and am ready to be told otherwise: Both in my personal and anecdotal experience with Israelis I have found them to be people who would do anything for you, but also people who are SUPER RUDE and very tough.(and proud of it > hence their nickname for themselves, 'sabra's' = prickly pears). Maybe their inherent rudeness combined with what can happen to people in the service industry makes for a potent mix of nastyness that even we would find hard to stomach?

I have close family in Israel and travel there quite often and it's true - it's like one big family. They will do anything for you but also don't sugar-coat anything or try to make you happy just for the sake of making you happy. This can also make it seem like they complain a lot - simply because Americans tend to hold their tongue more often when they don't like something and Israelis tend to go ahead and let you know about it. Obviously these are stereotypes but there is a general feel to a culture and this is how the Israeli culture feels to me.

Anna is extreme though.

[emmiedahl]

I think perhaps she is just not a fan of hard work, and maybe a little OCD as well. Consider her latest post: ccostello.blogspot.com/2011/08/objects-of-art-in-everyday-home-life.html She arranges her laundry on the line so it looks prettier. She hand-dries pots so they are shiny, and lines up dishes according to size in the drainer. Obviously she has time and energy to spare when a task suits her.

[fundiefan]

I think perhaps she is just not a fan of hard work, and maybe a little OCD as well. Consider her latest post: ccostello.blogspot.com/2011/08/objects-of-art-in-everyday-home-life.html She arranges her laundry on the line so it looks prettier. She hand-dries pots so they are shiny, and lines up dishes according to size in the drainer. Obviously she has time and energy to spare when a task suits her.

Spot on, I think.

[booksnbeats]

I think perhaps she is just not a fan of hard work, and maybe a little OCD as well. Consider her latest post: ccostello.blogspot.com/2011/08/objects-of-art-in-everyday-home-life.html She arranges her laundry on the line so it looks prettier. She hand-dries pots so they are shiny, and lines up dishes according to size in the drainer. Obviously she has time and energy to spare when a task suits her.

Good catch! This cracked me up. Girlfriend has way too much time on her hands and I also agree, fundiefan, some OCD tendencies. I don't put my vegetables in another bowl before they go into the food preparation bowl, thanks.

[YPestis]

I think perhaps she is just not a fan of hard work, and maybe a little OCD as well. Consider her latest post: ccostello.blogspot.com/2011/08/objects-of-art-in-everyday-home-life.html She arranges her laundry on the line so it looks prettier. She hand-dries pots so they are shiny, and lines up dishes according to size in the drainer. Obviously she has time and energy to spare when a task suits her.

I think those images are stock images. The backyard does not even resemble the surrounding she lives in, and certainly not her backyard----unless there was a massive, expensive landscaping done recently. The kitchen is most certainly not Anna's kitchen. Flipping through her older posts where she has images from her kitchen, it is much smaller and run down. When she takes images of her food, it's never in a vacuum of a white background. Besides, those images are very polished and professionally done compared to Anna's images (which are usually good but without the professional gleam....).

I have a suspicion that Anna is starting to feel overwhelmed by the little children. Right now, two under age 2 is still manageable, but once you start getting past 4 or 5 little ones, then it is far more stressful. I'd also point out that people in the past never had the high standard for child care that modern mothers in developed nations (including Anna) has. My parents grew up in China under Mao. My dad said it was common to have 5 or 6 kids. Parents didn't spend precious money on toys for children, or have Mommy and Me sessions, or "quality time". Most families managed large number of children because they had older siblings care for younger ones or doing heavy chores from a young age, or they had children scoot out of the house so they can get work done. My dad said he was commonly kicked out of the house and told to take his brothers with him because his mother (a farmer "housewife") had chores to finish. Today's fundies want to combine the intensive mothering modern society demands with the large number of children people in the past had. That load of work would crush anyone, let alone retiring like Anna.

[emmiedahl]

I'm sure they are stock images, but she waxes on about how she does all those things.

[fundiefan]

I think Anna got everything she decided as a young adult that she was meant to have - thus, everything she wanted. Marriage, not working, kids, etc...and I think reality slapped her imagination/ideals into the gutter and she has absolutely no clue how to deal with it. She got what she wanted and claims all women should want and do, so she has to keep up with the 'this is the perfect life' thing, all the while being unable to keep her real feelings and disappointment out of it.

It sucks when you get what you want and it's not at all like you imagined or hoped for it to be. For most, it's part of life and you deal with and move on. But, it sucks even more when, as you determined your own wants you waxed poetic about how everyone else should want the same thing because it's the RIGHT thing, and you kind of remove your ability to use the same medium to work though the reality of life and dreams that aren't sunshine and roses.

She's falling down the rabbit hole occupied by Lydia Sherman. One without definition because it's not merely obsessive organization or prettiness or 'feminine'...it's, well, delusional.

[demgirl]

I'd also point out that people in the past never had the high standard for child care that modern mothers in developed nations (including Anna) has. My parents grew up in China under Mao. My dad said it was common to have 5 or 6 kids. Parents didn't spend precious money on toys for children, or have Mommy and Me sessions, or "quality time". Most families managed large number of children because they had older siblings care for younger ones or doing heavy chores from a young age, or they had children scoot out of the house so they can get work done. My dad said he was commonly kicked out of the house and told to take his brothers with him because his mother (a farmer "housewife") had chores to finish. Today's fundies want to combine the intensive mothering modern society demands with the large number of children people in the past had. That load of work would crush anyone, let alone retiring like Anna.

I don't know... that seems close enough to some of the quiverfullers we follow. The moms are really overwhelmed for the first couple of years or so, but then they turn over a lot of the child rearing to the eldest child, especially the eldest girl. And when the kids aren't caring for other siblings or kicked outside for hours at a time, they have them doing huge amounts of age inappropriate chores. I don't know about Anna because she only has two at the moment who are very young, but that is the model that's been followed by a lot of families, most notably the Duggars. Amy S. of Daily Pleasures, whose blog is now defunct (or private?) had like, 11 children, and she used to do blog posts about lying in bed, reading and drinking tea until late morning while her children did chores and cared for the younger kids.