Catholics belief in birth control is evil

[xDreamerx]

I think birth control, along with not taking the Lord's name is vain are two things that most Catholics consider a suggestion. Unless you're Bobby and Ethel :)

[Guest Anonymous]

I have a story about that, that i have always thought was hilarious. A coworker of mine told me this story about why she stopped going to church.

She was supporting her whole family because the family business had failed and her husband had fallen into a crippling depression. They knew they couldn't take care of more babies, so she took birth control pills. And being from a very devout (and large) Catholic family, she went and confessed every week to using birth control and got forgiven and felt better. Finally, the priest took pity on her and said to her, you know, God wants you to take care of the family you have and if you don't feel that you can take on any more right now, I'm sure he understands.

And she got up and left the church and never went back, because what good was it believing in the church and following all the rules if even the priests didn't believe in it?

I remember when my (Lutheran) aunt had her third and last child in 1966. It had been a very difficult, iffy pregnancy and her OB/GYN told her that she was lucky to have lived through it. He also cautioned that a fifth pregnancy (she had had a stillbirth, too) would be fatal. When she told my (Catholic) uncle that she would have to use birth control, he bleated "But it's against my religion". "But if I don't, I'll die". "It's in Gods hands, if you die, you die" (lots of empathy there, no?). Well, my aunt talked to the priest at my uncle's church. After hearing her out, he said "Mrs. -------, leaving three children motherless is a far bigger sin than preventing another pregnancy. If your doctor says you must use birth control, then that's what you must do".

From then on, she would drop off the prescriptions at my grandma's pharmacist, then one of my parents would pick it up and hold it for her. Even the priests (the thinking ones) knew, even then, that the policy on birth control was ridiculous.

[alaeangelorum]

Just wanted to say hello I used to be on the old fj but decided to change my username up so it's good to be back. Anyways I am a member as well as a few other FJians that I recall on Catholic Answers forums and those people's opinions about how evil birth control even in situations such as people starving to death in Africa is just scary. I can't be the only practicing Catholic who uses birth control and doesn't feel any religious regret.

You're not... at school they told us that it was a 'conscience issue' - ie the church said don't do it but you were also able to make up your own mind and not be excommunicated or something. I have never really understood why the Doctrine of Double Effect can't be used to support use of condoms to prevent transmission of diseases rather than to prevent pregnancy.

[Guest Anonymous]

I have these icky memories of my babysitter asking me "what's this chart on the back of the bathroom door?" when I was about 6... I knew it was my catholic parents' chart to "help them get pregnant" (or maybe "help them *not* get pregnant," in which case it failed...) but I wasn't admitting a thing.

After kid #5 (who was a "blessing") my dad got the snip anyway, which I assume counts as birth control. I guess they were over it by then.

[Nothing2CHere]

As a teen, I found a very dusty drinking glass in our storage closet with this image on it. Obviously, it did not have the desired effect on me. My opinion as a practicing Catholic is that what the pope doesn't know won't hurt him. If God really wants me to have a baby, no little pill is going to stop Him from causing it.

I am a from-the-cradle Catholic, raised in the Byzantine Rite who attended church on Sundays and religion classes through 8th grade (we didn't do anything for high school at my church). Some (ok, a lot?) of the things I hear about all the rules of the Catholic church have me going, "Gee, was I absent that day? I don't remember ever being taught I was supposed to believe that!" Maybe it's because I went to public school.

[Lily]

As a teen, I found a very dusty drinking glass in our storage closet with this image on it. Obviously, it did not have the desired effect on me. My opinion as a practicing Catholic is that what the pope doesn't know won't hurt him. If God really wants me to have a baby, no little pill is going to stop Him from causing it.

I am a from-the-cradle Catholic, raised in the Byzantine Rite who attended church on Sundays and religion classes through 8th grade (we didn't do anything for high school at my church). Some (ok, a lot?) of the things I hear about all the rules of the Catholic church have me going, "Gee, was I absent that day? I don't remember ever being taught I was supposed to believe that!" Maybe it's because I went to public school.

My husband says the same thing. He was Catholic his whole life, the whole nine yards Catholic, and he doesn't remember ever having half of the current entries into Da Rulez Book so much as whispered about around him.

[FaustianSlip]

Catholic answers is a pretty nutty place since all of the Catholics I have meet were generally laid back people, but that forum brings out a side of Catholicism I didn't know exsisted steeped with legalism about things that I didn't think even matter in marriage such as "oral sex is not allowed in sexual intercourse between a husband and wife". I never thought you needed anyone's opinion about what you and your spouse chose to do in bed.

If you think Catholic Answers is wild, check out Fisheaters (or the forum that I think split from Fisheaters, because they thought the folks at FE were too liberal- the name escapes me at the moment, but I think it was something like Angel Queen). I'm fascinated by the Catholic Church and church history, particularly the whole Trad Catholic phenomenon (I chalk it up to being a medievalist in college), but some of the stuff I read over there is just.... :shock: There's an entire subforum devoted to "Judaism, Zionism and Other Cults." I'll let you all guess for yourselves what kind of things you're likely to find there.

It's a shame, really, because the Catholic Church has such a long history, and I actually do think that the Latin Mass is quite beautiful, in its way, but the amount of misogyny, anti-Semitism, paranoia and incredible legalism I see in these forums completely ruins most of the appreciation I might have of what's there. The irony is that one of the biggest criticisms that the folks over at Fisheaters like to level at Judaism (well, aside from the usual charges of deicide, of course) is that it's completely focused on works and purely legalistic. Then I'll see a five-page thread discussing the finer points of racking up indulgences by wearing a certain scapula or praying the Rosary X number of times a day, or whether forgetting to eat fish on Friday is a mortal or venial sin. The levels of compartmentalization and denial I see over there are pretty astonishing sometimes (second only to the paranoia).

[Hane]

At school they told us that it was a 'conscience issue' - ie the church said don't do it but you were also able to make up your own mind and not be excommunicated or something. I have never really understood why the Doctrine of Double Effect can't be used to support use of condoms to prevent transmission of diseases rather than to prevent pregnancy.

This is called "an internal forum decision". The priest who moderated my divorced and separated Catholics group also applied it to things like deciding to receive communion if you were divorced and remarried outside the Church--a pretty radical thing for an old-school priest to say!

And, alaeangelorum? Your username ROCKS!

Edited to fix crappy typing.

[desertvixen]

Catholic and questioning it (a lot) - especially since I was divorced by my non-Catholic spouse and discovered that an annulment will run me $450 through the military archdiocese - and I've also taken the "conscience" route when it comes to my birth control.

[treemom]

My experience with Catholics has been varied. The NW Indiana Catholics I grew up around always seemed blue collar liberal and I *KNOW* they used BC.

But a lot of the practicing Catholics around here are indistinguishable from strict Baptists with the exception they drink.

[bananacat]

I think it's far rarer to find a Catholic (in the U.S.) who doesn't use birth control.

My grandma in the 1950s was Catholic, and she had only 3 kids (two planned and then a menopause baby). When other Catholics questioned her why she had so few kids, she jokingly replied "Well, my husband's not Catholic". They used condoms in marriage, and I know this because my mom found them as a kid and thought they were water balloons.

I used to have a boss who was hardcore Catholic. He had a daughter with Down Syndrome, even though he and his wife were relatively young. Because that disability showed up at such a young maternal age, the doctors told them that the risk would increase drastically if they had another kid. Since they are absolutely against abortion, they decided to not try for any more kids (they had another child born before their special needs child). They decided that if they had two kids with special needs, they wouldn't be able to give the best care to either of them. It's a shame that my boss felt the need to justify his decision to me, but I think he made the right choice (especially since he worked 60 hour weeks all the time).

My own mom is no longer Catholic, but she was for a long time and that never stopped her from using birth control. In fact, she got pregnant in her early 20s to an abusive partner and she planned to have an abortion, in spite of being Catholic. She ended up having a miscarriage and didn't need an abortion anyway, but she was certainly willing to do it. She left Catholicism later for reasons unrelated to birth control.

[Hane]

Catholic and questioning it (a lot) - especially since I was divorced by my non-Catholic spouse and discovered that an annulment will run me $450 through the military archdiocese - and I've also taken the "conscience" route when it comes to my birth control.

That stinks. When I got my annulment, in a civilian archdiocese, I was told that the fee was voluntary--and they sent the letter asking for it AFTER the annulment was granted.

[desertvixen]

@ Hane - in a lot of the civilian ones, either the fee is lower or they can take up a collection, but that's not an option

I'm basically at the point where I'm wondering if it's even worth messing with because a) I'm not a very good Catholic b) the likely future Mr. Vixen is not Catholic - although his parents are late converts, as well as his 14 yo daughter and c) that's a chunk of money that I could put to better use.

[Hane]

@ Hane - in a lot of the civilian ones, either the fee is lower or they can take up a collection, but that's not an option

I'm basically at the point where I'm wondering if it's even worth messing with because a) I'm not a very good Catholic b) the likely future Mr. Vixen is not Catholic - although his parents are late converts, as well as his 14 yo daughter and c) that's a chunk of money that I could put to better use.

The suggested fee was $400 back in the early '80s. I paid it because my priest, an expert on canon law, told me that most of the money goes to pay the psychiatrists the archdiocese hires to review the marital histories people submit.

Nowadays? Should some miracle happen and a future Mr. Hane comes along, I

don't see myself jumping through the hoops for a second annulment, as I now identify myself as UU.

[lovefromgirl]

I remember when my (Lutheran) aunt had her third and last child in 1966. It had been a very difficult, iffy pregnancy and her OB/GYN told her that she was lucky to have lived through it. He also cautioned that a fifth pregnancy (she had had a stillbirth, too) would be fatal. When she told my (Catholic) uncle that she would have to use birth control, he bleated "But it's against my religion". "But if I don't, I'll die". "It's in Gods hands, if you die, you die" (lots of empathy there, no?). Well, my aunt talked to the priest at my uncle's church. After hearing her out, he said "Mrs. -------, leaving three children motherless is a far bigger sin than preventing another pregnancy. If your doctor says you must use birth control, then that's what you must do".

From then on, she would drop off the prescriptions at my grandma's pharmacist, then one of my parents would pick it up and hold it for her. Even the priests (the thinking ones) knew, even then, that the policy on birth control was ridiculous.

x 1000 to that priest, and may your uncle come back as a woman with Serious Issues in the 'nads department.

eta: @alaeangelorum--

When Seewald asks: "Are you saying, then, that the Catholic Church is actually not opposed in principle to the use of condoms?" The Holy Father responds: "She of course does not regard it as a real or moral solution, but, in this or that case, there can be nonetheless, in the intention of reducing the risk of infection, a first step in a movement toward a different way, a more human way, of living sexuality."

Found here. So maybe this Pope is coming closer to a yes?

[desertvixen]

Veering OT, but how do you like the UU church?

[Nothing2CHere]

@ Hane - in a lot of the civilian ones, either the fee is lower or they can take up a collection, but that's not an option

I'm basically at the point where I'm wondering if it's even worth messing with because a) I'm not a very good Catholic b) the likely future Mr. Vixen is not Catholic - although his parents are late converts, as well as his 14 yo daughter and c) that's a chunk of money that I could put to better use.

I think it comes down to, when you get remarried, are you planning on getting married in a Catholic church? If not, then you might not need get the annulment. My sister-in-law was married once before, and was hoping that she didn't need an annulment for that marriage because he wasn't Catholic and they didn't get married in a church of any kind (it was an outside ceremony). But since she and my brother wanted to have a Catholic church wedding, she still needed to get one. But I swear she said it only cost $50! If you decide that you really need it, maybe you can shop around dioceses?

[debrand]

Catholic answers both drew me into Catholicism and then turned me off of it. When I was coming out of fundamentalism, Catholicism seemed less extreme than fundamentalism.

There was thread on the Brazilian girl whose mother was excommunicated for getting her daughter an abortion. The apologists for the church's stance disgusted me.

[Sanveann]

I think it comes down to, when you get remarried, are you planning on getting married in a Catholic church? If not, then you might not need get the annulment. My sister-in-law was married once before, and was hoping that she didn't need an annulment for that marriage because he wasn't Catholic and they didn't get married in a church of any kind (it was an outside ceremony). But since she and my brother wanted to have a Catholic church wedding, she still needed to get one. But I swear she said it only cost $50! If you decide that you really need it, maybe you can shop around dioceses?

Yup, you only need an annulment if you plan to get remarried in the RCC. It's not like they can prevent you from getting married elsewhere :)

I believe annulments usually have a "suggested donation" amount, and from what I know from people who've gotten them, it's usually based on ability to pay.

[Sanveann]

Putting this in a separate post, because it's totally unrelated to the one I just wrote :)

As I've mentioned, I'm a non-birth-control-using Catholic. I used birth control before marriage and had no idea what NFP really was or that it actually worked (I thought it was just "the rhythm method") until we had to take a course on it as part of our parish's marriage prep. I thought it sounded interesting, and my (non-religious) fiance (now husband) agreed we should give it a try. Initially, we thought we'd just use it when we were trying to conceive, but we've also used it when trying to avoid, as well. We've been married eight years and have two, soon to be three, kids, all planned. Well, No. 2 was conceived a little earlier than we were shooting for, but that was our own fault for throwing caution to the wind :)

Honestly, I like NFP. It does take more discipline and requires more abstinence than some other family planning methods, but I like that I'm not taking anything that messes with my hormones, and I like that it lets us have a "honeymoon period" every month. I also like that my years of charting alerted me to some problems with my cycle, which I was able to correct before we started trying to have kids. Oh, and many NFP methods are free (at least once you learn them), which is awesome. (I use one of the pricier methods, the Marquette Model, which uses a fertility monitor and test sticks. After the initial cost of the monitor, it ends up being like $10 a month.) My husband is also totally on-board with it.

I won't go heavily into the RCC's theology on artificial birth control, though I overall do agree with it. I do think that it tends to reflect more of a "perfect world" than the one we actually live in, though, and needs to address more real-life situations. And I think a lot of people erroneously think that the RCC teaches that you can't, say, use a condom when having premarital sex or visiting a prostitute. The Church actually has NO teachings on those situations, because they're things that you're not supposed to do in the first place; if you're sinning by cheating on your wife with a hooker, it's not extra-extra sinful if you used a condom, too. (The objection to birth control is because it is considered to interfere with both the unitive and procreative aspects of sex between two married people. If they aren't married, there's no unitive aspect to interfere WITH, and therefore the condom is beside the point.)

I don't judge people who use artificial birth control ... it's obviously a very personal choice. I do wish more women knew about NFP, though, because I think a lot of them would actually like it and could really benefit from some of the info it gives them about their body (especially women who are trying to conceive or planning to eventually). I know I'm happy that we had to learn about it, because otherwise, I probably never would have even considered it.

[Hane]

Veering OT, but how do you like the UU church?

I love it. There's always a stimulating discussion going on, and I've led two services! I first got to know it when my daughter's best friend in high school, who hadn't been brought up in a religion and was beginning to find herself as a lesbian, started attending the local UU and started a youth group there, which my daughter and several of her friends joined. We'd attend services once in a while--often instead of attending Mass on "Right to Life Sunday."

We both segued to UU at about the same time. Our main reasons were wanting a more inclusive religion, one in which women and gay people were fully recognized and empowered. (I chose UU over other liberal Protestant denominations, like UCC or Methodism, because I've been having severe doubts about such mainstream Christian beliefs as the virgin birth and the resurrection.)

Back to birth control. Sanveann, while we may have a difference of opinion about contraception, I fully agree that NFP can be valuable in helping a woman get to know her body and better take care of her physical and emotional health.

[mirele]

My family is all Catholic and some used birth control and others did/do not. NFP is allowed, which if you do it right, is pretty effectve (doing it right is the hard part.) There are plenty of priests in the US who will say it's okay, but artificial birth control is definitely not considered ok by Roman Catholicism.

Natural Family Planning is anything but "natural."

And, for 40 years, the rate of the use of "artificial" birth control among female Catholics of child-bearing age in the USA has remained steady (at over 70 percent), with Protestants hovering around 50 percent.

Lots of women are ignoring Vatican dictates--good for them.

[alphaeta08]

If you think Catholic Answers is wild, check out Fisheaters (or the forum that I think split from Fisheaters, because they thought the folks at FE were too liberal- the name escapes me at the moment, but I think it was something like Angel Queen). I'm fascinated by the Catholic Church and church history, particularly the whole Trad Catholic phenomenon (I chalk it up to being a medievalist in college), but some of the stuff I read over there is just.... :shock: There's an entire subforum devoted to "Judaism, Zionism and Other Cults." I'll let you all guess for yourselves what kind of things you're likely to find there.

Oh, oh, oh, I LOVE me some Fisheaters craziness! It's so obvious they're just fundies with slightly different rules. The modesty OCDness, the "submission," the conspiracy theories, it's all awesome! :lol:

[alphaeta08]

My experience with Catholics has been varied. The NW Indiana Catholics I grew up around always seemed blue collar liberal and I *KNOW* they used BC.

Sorry, just wanted to do a NWI shout-out. That's all (not that it's super-awesome or anything, but I'm recognizin'). 8-)

[Sanveann]

Natural Family Planning is anything but "natural."

And, for 40 years, the rate of the use of "artificial" birth control among female Catholics of child-bearing age in the USA has remained steady (at over 70 percent), with Protestants hovering around 50 percent.

When you compare it taking pills to supress ovulation or implanting a device in your uterus, it seems pretty natural. I'll gladly admit that peeing on a stick several days a month to see how fertile i am isn't exactly 100 percent natural, but I think the result (temporary abstinence) is a lot more so than some of the alternatives. (And I'm not in any way bashing people who avail themselves of those alternatives ... but for reasons both health- and faith-related, I choose differently.)

And honestly, I'd be shocked if only 70 percent of Catholics, let alone just 50 percent of Protestants, DIDN'T use some form of ABC. Last I heard, something like 2 percent of Catholics used NFP.