Abortion Book - This could be snark worthy.

[notsocommon]

New e book on Amazon about how to alk to the kids about abortion.

http://www.amazon.com/Dreaming-Hill-Sar ... aming+hill

I am trying to read it now, but it keeps loading only with pictures, no words. Anyone else wanna try? it is free!

[Ms Jess]

I don't have a kindle. Well, technically there is one in the house but it is my daughter's. I am not downloading that book to it because I can't see it right now and she doesn't need to see anything like that at her age. Yuck.

I have not had a planned conversation with any of my children about abortion. One time my youngest asked what abortion meant because he heard it some where. I answered briefly that it was a procedure that makes a woman not pregnant any more. Fortunately he didn't ask any follow up questions.

I cannot imagine any scenario in which I would go out of my way to tell my children all about abortion. Not for many years still and they are currently 13, 12, and 10.

[lilith]

I don't have a kindle. Well, technically there is one in the house but it is my daughter's. I am not downloading that book to it because I can't see it right now and she doesn't need to see anything like that at her age. Yuck.

I have not had a planned conversation with any of my children about abortion. One time my youngest asked what abortion meant because he heard it some where. I answered briefly that it was a procedure that makes a woman not pregnant any more. Fortunately he didn't ask any follow up questions.

I cannot imagine any scenario in which I would go out of my way to tell my children all about abortion. Not for many years still and they are currently 13, 12, and 10.

You can download a free kindle program for PC to access kindle titles.

I've explained abortion to my almost ten year old daughter. She asked what happened if you made a baby before you wanted one (as part of a discussion about menstruation) and it was a pretty simple explanation, not something I needed a reference book to navigate. She knows I take a pill to stop myself from having a baby, I simply explained to her that the pills don't always work or sometimes women don't take them, and if they start growing a baby when they aren't ready for one they can have an operation to stop the baby from growing in them. She asked if I ever had, and I told her that yes, before she was born when I was very young and in a new relationship and at uni I had made that choice, and that I was really glad that when I was ready to have a baby I had her. She was very pragmatic about it and viewed it as a sensible decision.

I want abortion, like contraception, to be something she grows up aware of and open to, so that she makes the sexual and reproductive decisions that are right for her without guilt and superstition.

She is a very mature girl though - my sons (7 and 8) have never asked anything of the sort, although they too know I take my pill to stop babies coming by surprise.

[ILoveJellybeans]

WHAT?

When I saw this thread, I was like "Please not be a children's book", but yes. It is.

And fundies think we are the ones who are taking away our children's innocence.

[Mama Mia]

I don't have a kindle. Well, technically there is one in the house but it is my daughter's. I am not downloading that book to it because I can't see it right now and she doesn't need to see anything like that at her age. Yuck.

I have not had a planned conversation with any of my children about abortion. One time my youngest asked what abortion meant because he heard it some where. I answered briefly that it was a procedure that makes a woman not pregnant any more. Fortunately he didn't ask any follow up questions.

I cannot imagine any scenario in which I would go out of my way to tell my children all about abortion. Not for many years still and they are currently 13, 12, and 10.

I would imagine its a pretty safe bet at least the 13 year old has the basic idea down, since it is likely a few kids of his/ her class are sexually active.

[GeoBQn]

I think it is necessary to talk about abortion with kids at some point, probably during a discussion about birth control. I've seen a lot of stories on 16 and Pregnant and other places where the parents would have been supportive of their daughter getting an abortion in the event of an unplanned pregnancy, but they never actually talked about it. Then when the daughter got pregnant and they asked if she had considered abortion, she would say she'd never get one after googling "abortion" and seeing all the mangled fetus pictures. Of course, there's an age-appropriate way to go about it, and I am sure this book is not it.

[sparkles]

I was forced to talk my to then 6/7 YO daughter about abortion when she was given one of those "Mommy! Mommy! Why are you killing me?" letters (one of those times when I cursed the fact that she was a very early reader and was able to comprehend at a level way beyond her years). It came through a supposedly MONITORED children's website that we checked as well. Somehow, we missed it, because it had a very innocuous title and appeared to come from the site itself--and to this day, I still blame myself for not catching it. It had an absolutely devastating effect on her, exactly what it was intended to do, I'm sure. A few days after she got the letter, she became quite withdrawn and upset and I found out about it when she asked me something to the effect of "Mommy, why do people kill their babies before they're born?" So I was really unable to skirt around the issue or give a simple answer that didn't go into much detail. My talk with her and the ensuing discussions were truthful and direct but age appropriate. Well, as age appropriate as one can be when discussing things THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO BE DISCUSSED WITH A 7 YEAR OLD. It did stay with her for quite a while though and she'd bring it up from time to time. Now that she's 23, she still remembers that letter but because we've been able to discuss things openly at home and because she attended a school where sex education wasn't a taboo topic, she's been able to put it in its proper place and she fully supports freedom of choice.

I get absolutely stabby when children are involved in discussions about a WOMAN'S right to choose and when I see them forced to attend demonstrations, I just want to grab them, run away and treat them to an ice cream or something instead. People who who involve or target children in their efforts to stop abortion are cowards and liars, at the very least.

I get so angry about this that I can barely even discuss it without becoming incoherent.

[Hane]

The subject of abortion came up when my daughter was about 8 or 9. My mom was watching a TV movie in which a character had a cerebral aneurysm that would prove fatal were she to get pregnant/give birth. The character's scheming mother-in-law blackmailed the woman's doctor to keep the news from her, ensuring that the villain MIL would get a grandchild AND a dead DIL.

My daughter asked us what abortion was, and we told her. My mom said what a terrible thing it would be to terminate a pregnancy. Referring to the character with the aneurysm, my daughter said, "But what would you say if it was ME?" Bingo!

[Jana814]

I don't remember when I first heard the word abortion. However, I always believed its a woman's right to choose what they do to their bodies.

[GeoBQn]

I think the first time I learned about it was when my mom was watching a Movie of the Week about two sisters, one a pro-life activist with lots of kids and the other a pro-choice, childless lawyer. When the pregnant pro-life sister has a heart condition that requires surgery, she decides to delay the surgery until after she has the baby, and her husband and the pro-choice sister try to go to court to require her to get an abortion.

[Emme]

There were anti abortion protesters that we drove past when I was little, and I remember my mom telling me to look down and not out the window. When I asked why, she said that some people didn't think that women should have a right to make their own decisions about their bodies, and they were protesting that. She was really REALLY mad that they were out there (not even near a clinic, just literally outside some bookstore or something).

[Emme]

I was forced to talk my to then 6/7 YO daughter about abortion when she was given one of those "Mommy! Mommy! Why are you killing me?" letters (one of those times when I cursed the fact that she was a very early reader and was able to comprehend at a level way beyond her years). It came through a supposedly MONITORED children's website that we checked as well. Somehow, we missed it, because it had a very innocuous title and appeared to come from the site itself--and to this day, I still blame myself for not catching it. It had an absolutely devastating effect on her, exactly what it was intended to do, I'm sure. A few days after she got the letter, she became quite withdrawn and upset and I found out about it when she asked me something to the effect of "Mommy, why do people kill their babies before they're born?" So I was really unable to skirt around the issue or give a simple answer that didn't go into much detail. My talk with her and the ensuing discussions were truthful and direct but age appropriate. Well, as age appropriate as one can be when discussing things THAT SHOULD NEVER HAVE TO BE DISCUSSED WITH A 7 YEAR OLD. It did stay with her for quite a while though and she'd bring it up from time to time. Now that she's 23, she still remembers that letter but because we've been able to discuss things openly at home and because she attended a school where sex education wasn't a taboo topic, she's been able to put it in its proper place and she fully supports freedom of choice.

I get absolutely stabby when children are involved in discussions about a WOMAN'S right to choose and when I see them forced to attend demonstrations, I just want to grab them, run away and treat them to an ice cream or something instead. People who who involve or target children in their efforts to stop abortion are cowards and liars, at the very least.

I get so angry about this that I can barely even discuss it without becoming incoherent.

Oh that is FUCKED UP. The anti choicers know their arguments are so invalid that they have to freak out a CHILD with false information to try to indoctrinate them before they're capable of logical thought? What the FUCK. "Save the fetuses... traumatize the ACTUAL children" should be their new slogan.

[Cleopatra7]

When I was teaching CCD classes at a very conservative, traditionalist Catholic parish, I was always shocked that the kids (under ten) knew about things like abortion, stem cell research, and euthansia and could give out all of the pro-life boilerplate arguments. Now that I'm out of all that, I really think it's inappropriate to discuss these sorts of things with young children, because there's no way that they can properly digest this kind of information. Like other posters, I don't approve of kids being at abortion protests, either for or against, for the same reason. Abortion really is an "adult" issue and children don't have any business getting involved. The rhetoric at these protests can get ugly in ways that can be very upsetting to kids (e.g., the graphic pictures, references to coat hangers). Although conservatives claim to want to protect the "innocence" of kids, they are intent on exposing sex to their children, whether it's about homosexuality or abortion, in the most crass ways imaginable.

[JesusFightClub]

When I was teaching CCD classes at a very conservative, traditionalist Catholic parish, I was always shocked that the kids (under ten) knew about things like abortion, stem cell research, and euthansia and could give out all of the pro-life boilerplate arguments. Now that I'm out of all that, I really think it's inappropriate to discuss these sorts of things with young children, because there's no way that they can properly digest this kind of information. Like other posters, I don't approve of kids being at abortion protests, either for or against, for the same reason. Abortion really is an "adult" issue and children don't have any business getting involved. The rhetoric at these protests can get ugly in ways that can be very upsetting to kids (e.g., the graphic pictures, references to coat hangers). Although conservatives claim to want to protect the "innocence" of kids, they are intent on exposing sex to their children, whether it's about homosexuality or abortion, in the most crass ways imaginable.

100% agree with kids not being at abortion protests (I'd actually widen that to *any* protests they aren't personally involved in, because it's generally them parroting the parent's beliefs). However, I sort of disagree with "we can't discuss adult issues with kids".

Recently very close to where I live (and streets away from where I used to live) a small boy, Mikaeel, was killed. His mum is now accused of murder. People are having to discuss that with their kids. Stuff can happen then you have to explain things to kids things that you can't quite face yourself. The days are long past when you could simply not tell bad stuff to children.

When I was young, one of the defining incidents of my childhood was the Lockerbie bombing. I lived very close to there and I knew all the gruesome details (including some the media spared you). I also grew up in the time where IRA attacks on the mainland happened, and my dad worked in London. There were times when my dad phoned up and said "There's been another bloody bomb scare, I'll have to get the later train. FFS"

I sort of grew up without there ever being a state of safety. Lockerbie was one of the most pastoral and innocent places ever until it suddenly wasn't and it was an area of horror. To nick a line from a Rage Against The Machine song :embarrassed: "There ain't no shelter here". There never has been shelter for any but the most privileged kids.

[Cleopatra7]

100% agree with kids not being at abortion protests (I'd actually widen that to *any* protests they aren't personally involved in, because it's generally them parroting the parent's beliefs). However, I sort of disagree with "we can't discuss adult issues with kids".

Recently very close to where I live (and streets away from where I used to live) a small boy, Mikaeel, was killed. His mum is now accused of murder. People are having to discuss that with their kids. Stuff can happen then you have to explain things to kids things that you can't quite face yourself. The days are long past when you could simply not tell bad stuff to children.

When I was young, one of the defining incidents of my childhood was the Lockerbie bombing. I lived very close to there and I knew all the gruesome details (including some the media spared you). I also grew up in the time where IRA attacks on the mainland happened, and my dad worked in London. There were times when my dad phoned up and said "There's been another bloody bomb scare, I'll have to get the later train. FFS"

I sort of grew up without there ever being a state of safety. Lockerbie was one of the most pastoral and innocent places ever until it suddenly wasn't and it was an area of horror. To nick a line from a Rage Against The Machine song :embarrassed: "There ain't no shelter here". There never has been shelter for any but the most privileged kids.

I agree that kids shouldn't be sheltered from bad aspects of life, like terrorism or child molestors. I just don't think that kids should be culture warriors, used as props (e.g., the way the Duggars use Josie as a pro-life poster child), or be forced to have an opinion on an issue that they can't possibly understand. When the Duggars kids were holding up anti-abortion posters, did they understand what they were doing? Why would any woman - or anybody really - want to be judged by a bunch of kids with no life experience and no education?

[sparkles]

I agree there's nothing wrong with discussing "adult" topics with our kids, AS THE NEED ARISES. (I mean, it's not like your going to waltz into your 7 YO's room out of the blue one day and say, "Hey little Susie, put away your Legos. It's time to talk about abortion!") Refusing to talk about disturbing things or telling half truths in an effort to shield them does more damage than good, IMO. There are and always will be unforeseen events beyond our control that force us to confront these things way before their time. But giving graphic, inaccurate and disturbing anti-choice propaganda to an impressionable child is a willful violation that robs that child of his or her innocence. Thankfully I was able to have a calm, open discussion with my clearly upset daughter, and to reassure her that no one was killing a baby, but this kind of conversation was forced on us way before its time.

[tigerchild]

We've always been open with the kids about sexuality, they've had access to books and stuff and we've answered questions as they came up. Several of their books have touched on abortion in a neutral way, explaining what it is (no graphic details). I don't have a problem with it. Just like those books had a neutral (neither fawning nor shaming) blurb on adoption as well.

So, they've known what abortion is since they were...6ish? And also the concept that not everyone who chooses to have sex wants a baby at that time, and there's things that you can do before and after if it happens. My daughter started puberty at 8, had her first period at 10.5. No way in hell was I going to let her walk into that uneducated. Yet she has friends who are more developed whose parents have point blank told me they have no intentions of talking about "that kind of thing" until "we're ready for her to date or something like that." Horrifying, IMO.

[sparkles]

The Sparklet also learned about sexuality and her body from a fairly young age. We'd also answer any questions she brought to us. I don't know if the books she had touched on abortion (one of the books was from American Girls), but if they had I wouldn't have had any problem with it because it would have been truthful and age appropriate. That's quite a bit different than having to discuss the topic because someone decided to tell your child that abortion means a fetus is screaming for its mommy as it's being torn apart, and that mommy is a murderer.

[tigerchild]

I agree, though that's why we've never shied away from discussing the topic nor birth control, along with telling the kids that there's a lot of misinformation out there because some people are really upset about other people's choices. And that in general, you shouldn't bring up the subject first with someone, and if they make you uncomfortable it's okay to walk away--they're upset and angry and it's going to make them say things to try to get you upset and angry too.

My entire extended family on both sides are uber-conservative and religious. We didn't want to take chances.

[Ms Jess]

I would imagine its a pretty safe bet at least the 13 year old has the basic idea down, since it is likely a few kids of his/ her class are sexually active.

You're probably right.

I have been very open with my kids about their bodies, puberty, and human sexuality in general. I will admit that talking about abortion with them is one of my few hang-ups because I was one of those kids exposed to graphic abortion discussions in light of a staunchly pro-life POV from a rather young age. I don't have a lot of complaints about my parents and that is the only big one. I will never understand why they imagined it was okay to explain in graphic detail what an abortion is when I was 10.

[snuggles911]

I don't see the need to tell small children about abortion, but I think that it should be part of the sex education discussion between parents and pre-teens.

I don't understand why some pro-choice women feel the need to be so secretive about the procedure. Why not explain how it works, just as one would explain how the pill works, or how a condom works? Why not explain that abortions become more complicated if performed later in pregnancy?

Why treat abortion differently than we treat discussions about any other type of surgery? If your teen was having an appendectomy or their tonsils removed, wouldn't you expect their surgeon to explain how the procedure is performed?

[Mudball]

I've never considered there to be an age where suddenly this topic becomes appropriate. We've always been open and honest with our daughter from the beginning. I'm careful to consider what information she's comfortable with and curious about, but she's known from an early age about birth, pregnancy, and that preventing and terminating pregnancy are possible. She's 10 and she's matter of fact about it. It doesn't freak her out and she doesn't understand why kids aren't taught this stuff. (She's not interested in sex or boys at all, but does have a very strong interest in health topics in general.)

[tlcarlaw]

When I was teaching CCD classes at a very conservative, traditionalist Catholic parish, I was always shocked that the kids (under ten) knew about things like abortion, stem cell research, and euthansia and could give out all of the pro-life boilerplate arguments. Now that I'm out of all that, I really think it's inappropriate to discuss these sorts of things with young children, because there's no way that they can properly digest this kind of information. Like other posters, I don't approve of kids being at abortion protests, either for or against, for the same reason. Abortion really is an "adult" issue and children don't have any business getting involved. The rhetoric at these protests can get ugly in ways that can be very upsetting to kids (e.g., the graphic pictures, references to coat hangers). Although conservatives claim to want to protect the "innocence" of kids, they are intent on exposing sex to their children, whether it's about homosexuality or abortion, in the most crass ways imaginable.

I can remember being in CCD classes and being told all about abortion at about 12 years old. They read us the "dear mommy why did you kill me" letters, showed us graphic pictures and then made us fill out some form to be turned in to the teacher about what we thought about abortion. I remember that if we were pro life we were supposed to put a happy face on the top of our paper, if we were pro-choice a sad face. Talk about manipulating children. Of course we all put happy faces because we were so freaked out by everything they showed us and hadn't really had time to form our own opinions about anything.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Are pro lifers trying to give children nightmares for the rest of their life?

[JesusFightClub]

I agree that kids shouldn't be sheltered from bad aspects of life, like terrorism or child molestors. I just don't think that kids should be culture warriors, used as props (e.g., the way the Duggars use Josie as a pro-life poster child), or be forced to have an opinion on an issue that they can't possibly understand. When the Duggars kids were holding up anti-abortion posters, did they understand what they were doing? Why would any woman - or anybody really - want to be judged by a bunch of kids with no life experience and no education?

You put it much better than I could. I've always been opposed to kids on protests, because very often they can't understand at all what they're protesting about. I don't mean 12 or 13 year olds, but it's a bit horrible to see a tiny child holding up a placard which Mummy or Daddy gave her.