Jahi McMath case in California

[Peas n carrots]

Weird, inexplicable things happen in medical science all the time, and I'm open to the possibility Jahi has made some recovery (though I have my doubts as to functioning at anything more than a vegetable level). But for an uncle and mother who have done so much to be in the media, it's extremely strange they haven't published photos or video. That is why I'm still doubting there is any kind of real recovery going on.

[scc12]

It would be interesting to know if she has wake/sleep cycles.Ppl who are brain dead don't have them at all.They also don't make any of the necessary hormones for the body.Like insulin has to be given,even if they weren't diabetic before.

I'm sure the family knows more than what they are saying.

[Mitz_]

It would be interesting to know if she has wake/sleep cycles.Ppl who are brain dead don't have them at all.They also don't make any of the necessary hormones for the body.Like insulin has to be given,even if they weren't diabetic before.

I'm sure the family knows more than what they are saying.

They have said that Jahi is being given hormones and if she started producing them I'm sure they would be crowing about that.

It's interesting to me that they made that comment about being willing to have her tested again because she is in a hospital and those tests are really simple, they could do it themselves. Maybe they are talking about a scan or something, or maybe they are just blowing smoke.

If what they say is true about her moving a body part when asked then she isn't brain dead but that doesn't mean she will recover and have a life either.

They keep saying she's getting better but to me " getting better" would mean that she is trying to communicate or trying to take breaths on her own.

Here is an interesting link on the subject:

http://www.renewamerica.com/columns/byrne/140201

[Jesse911]

Part of my job is dealing with patients who are long term ventilator dependent. (For whatever reason- paralysis, vegative state anything) And from my experience I don't see how they have done anything but set her up to where her best outcome is going to be spending the next 50-60 years in a vegative state on a ventilator. Even with the things they are talking about her improving she's still not going to be awake and aware of her surroundings. Even a sleeping child can move their arm if you yell it in their ear but it doesn't mean they are conscious and participating in their surroundings, you just managed to get through to them in their diminished state of consciousness.

[PennySycamore]

Why do I feel like I need a good bath after going to that RenewAmerica site? I'm sorry, but I could not get out of there fast enough.

[Mitz_]

Why do I feel like I need a good bath after going to that RenewAmerica site? I'm sorry, but I could not get out of there fast enough.

Ha! I can see why you would say that, this article leaves a lot out. Like the fact that Jahi has indeed ceased to respirate , she is just mechanically suspended in that moment just before death occurs and all they would have to do is disconnect that vent to find out how certainly, truly dead she is. That's how I am seeing it anyway, but I'm still trying to figure out this whole " death " issue.

But that link I posted isn't the one I intended to post, the one I was going for talked about coma, vegetative state, brain dead and something like "diminished awareness state". That last one seemed to describe Jahi and it was pretty interesting. I'll look for it tonight when I have some time.

I can't stop thinking about how that awful uncle described the " chump change" they could be awarded in court for a dead child as opposed to the millions and millions of dollars they could get for a live one. They are never going to let Jahi go.

[Coconut Flan]

That's the Dr. Byrne who is far, far from standard medical opinion. He has major issues.

[salex]

Online rumors had long placed her in New Jersey, because it was believed it might be the only state where Jahi would still qualify for medical aid.

contracostatimes.com/news/ci_25998064/expert-new-jersey-best-destination-brain-dead-patients?source=pkg

It is the only state in the U.S., Caplan said, with a law requiring hospitals to accommodate brain-dead patients who belong to a religion that does not accept the diagnosis as a final verdict for death.

Which helps her uncle get more money long term.

Although there were also online rumors placing her in the care of the hairdresser/brain injury person on Long Island.

If she has been in a real hospital all this time, I am amazed no one has sold a photograph-- no aid or orderly or janitor-- but OK.

IF she was someplace else, and has now been moved to a hospital setting, I would think it is because she is deteriorating more than the previous place was comfortable with-- but I've been wrong before.

[Mitz_]

So the taxpayers are funding this fiasco. That's just great. No wonder she is keeping her mouth shut.

[cindyluvs24]

As a nj taxpayer, I hope we're not paying for it.

[Toothfairy]

So now, who determines death? The family or doctors? I've seen a case where it was science vs religion. If parents and family members determines when a loved one dies then will it cause problems like this?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Wow, theres video too, and she doesn't look like a corpse? I expected her to be really decomposed by now. Maybe she has still got a bit of life in her brain, but really, is it much of a life? If there is just a little bit of brain that isn't completely damaged that was somehow missed out when they declared her brain dead, she probably will not wake up again, or ever be the same person she was before all this happened.

[Coconut Flan]

Was that the ice cube video? If so, it was filmed months ago.

[littlemommy]

These pictures are of Jahi at some point in time...the claim is that they are "now", but I am dubious.

https://www.facebook.com/TeamJahiAFamil ... fref=photo

[ILoveJellybeans]

I bet if those pictures were in colour, it would show a whole different story.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

How can a religion decide brain death is not death? If they were not using science to keep her heart going, she would be naturally dead. Isn't that more about leaving it up to God than using extra human methods?

[salex]

Eh, these pictures of feet and posed corpse and no face shots that show a full face. Bleh.

But, to me and my completely layperson, non-medically trained opinion is that the old ice cube on the foot picture taken months ago

[bBvideo 560,340:xfxygtf2]

[/bBvideo] vs the alleged more recent foot photo

indicated her body is looking much worse-- foot is more discolored, at an odd angle and toes contracted.

But then, she been dead longer now.

[Coconut Flan]

The body does seem to be getting worse, as expected. There seems to be less flesh on the foot and ankle along with what was noted above. It's such a shame her mother is still living a delusion.

[GeoBQn]

Can we put photos behind spoiler buttons please?

[ILoveJellybeans]

Oh God, ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww. The way they are posing her around like that, its just wrong. From the pictures, her skin looks kinda discoloured, her feet are bent in odd angles, and she looks way thinner too, those ankles look to thin to belong to Jahi at her normal weight. Her feet look weirdly shaped too, like they've swollen at the bottom and her toes are bent funny as well. I think her mother moved her and posed her, and she didn't get into that position herself. I imagine that she would still have a certain degree of reflex, like the ice on the foot video, and apparently dead bodies have been known to move, but I cant see her being able to get into positions like that.

I wonder why they haven't shown a full face and body picture-we have seen closeups of her hands and feet, small parts of her head and her body from the chest down (posed like she was sitting by herself, ew). I wonder what her face looks like, maybe if they showed her face it would be clear she is very very dead.

Im betting she smells pretty dead too. I wonder how they can explain that?

[uber frau]

In the first one, the foot doesn't look to be in brilliant shape, but you can see the shape and musculature is that of a person who walks (or who was walking until quite recently).

In the second photo you can see that the muscles in the foot have wasted away and the bulk of the foot is made up of fat and fluid. The angle of the foot and toes are what happens when you get conjectures in the lower leg and foot.

[Mitz_]

Her skin looks okay to me and she is obviously not biologically dead. If she was dead she would not be metabolizing fat as energy and even the ventilator would not be able to make her breath. Vents only work on live people. She is severely brain damaged though, to the point where she can't even draw a breath on her own and she never will.

They won't show a full picture of her because she is drawn into a fetal position, arms pulled up to her chest , wrists bent etc. and it ain't pretty.

Notice that they talk about her getting better but never comment on things that Dr.s and nurses have said to them about Jahi.

They seem to know that Jahi is not medically viable and there is no possibility that she can heal but God is going to lay a miracle on her and she is just going to get up one day like TA-DAAAh and go on about her business.

These are shameless, stupid , greedy people who are abusing the medical system and using advanced technology for evil . It's just incredible that they have been allowed to keep this up for so long, just because they can doesn't mean that they should.

[salex]

Sorry for the pics without spoiler buttons. I can't edit at this point, maybe the mods can?

[Coconut Flan]

Sorry, but she's legally dead with a death certificate. The vent is all that is keeping her heart beating. If it weren't for current medical science she would have long since not had a beating heart.

[DGayle]

How can a religion decide brain death is not death? If they were not using science to keep her heart going, she would be naturally dead. Isn't that more about leaving it up to God than using extra human methods?

Exactly my thought. I'm probably going to catch flak for this, but your religion be damned if you're going to force the taxpayers to pay for expensive medical care for a dead person because your religion says so.