I'm not trying to be critical

[Nothing2CHere]

It's outside on public property, right? I thought that some Orthodox neighborhoods put up string "fences" before Shabbat so people could carry things on "private" property. I read an article a long time ago about a neighborhood in New York where a snowstorm destroyed the fences and caused havoc because nobody could do any carrying outdoors as they'd planned.

I had never heard of the eruv concept before (being a Catholic who lives on the West side of town, which is where the majority of the area Catholics live), so I did a google search, and low and behold, there is at least one huge eruv on the East side of town (where the majority of the area Jewish people live). It encompasses parts of five suburbs, and although I haven't gone to that side of town in a while, it includes most of the areas on the East side that I like to visit. It doesn't say on the webpage what acts as the fence, so I'm guessing it may be the telephone poles (there are some notations such as "only the south side of the street is in the eruv"), because I know I've never seen anything on the boundary streets that would make me go, "What is THAT there for?" and I'm sure this eruv has probably been established for a while.

FreeJinger, expanding minds and imparting new knowledge for however long the forum's existed!

[2xx1xy1JD]

I have a question about the prohibition on carrying things during the Sabbath. What about picking up and carrying the baby at all? I don't see how you could go 24 hours without carrying an infant, since obviously they have to be fed, changed, rocked, etc......so is this an exception, or doesn't fall into the same category, or is the prohibition only regarding carrying things outside?

How about carrying a dish of food? I guess I'm not understanding how some necessary needs are met if someone literally can't carry anything at all. Or is maybe the food all put out on the table beforehand?

Thank you very much for your willingness to answer questions.

There's no prohibition on carrying indoors - just on carrying in public, outside of a confined space. If you have a fenced yard, you can carry there. If you live within an area with an "eruv", you can carry outside. I've heard of people bringing some poles and string to make an eruv if they are going camping for the weekend, since otherwise you could have issues bringing food in and out of the tent. In areas without an eruv, people learn to carry NOTHING - no purse, no key in the pocket (either they have combination locks at home or "wear" the key).

[Phoebe]

Sadly, nursing school = no nail polish. :cry:

However, I do have my nail polish all picked out for graduation: Since my school's colors are navy, orange, and silver, I have a matte blaze orange for the bottom layers, then silver holograph glitter for the topcoat. Sparkly!

[OkToBeTakei]

There's no prohibition on carrying indoors - just on carrying in public, outside of a confined space. If you have a fenced yard, you can carry there. If you live within an area with an "eruv", you can carry outside. I've heard of people bringing some poles and string to make an eruv if they are going camping for the weekend, since otherwise you could have issues bringing food in and out of the tent. In areas without an eruv, people learn to carry NOTHING - no purse, no key in the pocket (either they have combination locks at home or "wear" the key).

http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions ... uv_1.shtml

Totally fascinating. I know Edgware really well and never noticed, nor would I have cared as per the comments on the end of the article. I think it's quite clever. Only now when I go back to London I will probably be walking into random things looking for fishing line in the sky.

If nobody likes my post I'm going to cry by the way :P

[2xx1xy1JD]

OKTBT:

Interesting article. It just prompted me to look up the Toronto eruv information, which I hadn't read in depth before.

I'm not sure that I really agree with the articles list of common objections and responses. An eruv doesn't make some place into a designated "Jewish area". It merely recognizes that a certain area is enclosed by various things. OTOH, I have seen other controversies. Obviously, there's a need to get cooperation from utilities if you are going to string up wire, and in Toronto I know they also had dealing with the rail companies. There's also a debate within the Orthodox Jewish community about the various technical requirements, and whether an eruv in a big city is a good idea or not. Apparently, I'm spoiled and it's somewhat unusual to have an eruv as big as the one that Toronto has. One side argues that you shouldn't get used to carrying outside in case you go to an area without an eruv and forget not to carry, while another side says that you should have an eruv so that folks who do carry don't violate that commandment. I've also heard the view that a city should have an eruv for the second reason, but avoid relying on it for the first reason.

And yes, I'm fully aware that this seems weird and really technical to others!

[OkToBeTakei]

OKTBT:

Interesting article. It just prompted me to look up the Toronto eruv information, which I hadn't read in depth before.

I'm not sure that I really agree with the articles list of common objections and responses. An eruv doesn't make some place into a designated "Jewish area". It merely recognizes that a certain area is enclosed by various things. OTOH, I have seen other controversies. Obviously, there's a need to get cooperation from utilities if you are going to string up wire, and in Toronto I know they also had dealing with the rail companies. There's also a debate within the Orthodox Jewish community about the various technical requirements, and whether an eruv in a big city is a good idea or not. Apparently, I'm spoiled and it's somewhat unusual to have an eruv as big as the one that Toronto has. One side argues that you shouldn't get used to carrying outside in case you go to an area without an eruv and forget not to carry, while another side says that you should have an eruv so that folks who do carry don't violate that commandment. I've also heard the view that a city should have an eruv for the second reason, but avoid relying on it for the first reason.

And yes, I'm fully aware that this seems weird and really technical to others!

I think it's pretty cool. I could not comment on the objections noted by other Jewish denominations but from having lived in the area mentioned I certainly can about the other objections mentioned. Bollocks. I never even noticed and would have been just as impressed then as I am now to find out about it. I can't see how any of the other objections would bother anybody. I have never heard of a Londoner tearing down a garden wall to piss of the Jewish community and disrupt their eruv.

I'm sure as there is everywhere there are bigots, life would be great if not. THIS though I can't see being a 'thing' for most intelligent folk.

[stacyf]

I love learning new things and since I live in a town with a large Jewish population and in an area with many Orthodox Jewish people I decided to Google my town and Eruv. Low and behold I live within the Eruv. At the corner of my street you need to walk on the west side of the telephone pole on the corner if you want to remain in the Eruv. Now I will be paying attention on Saturdays when I am out and about. Thank you for the information.

[lemonhead]

I had never thought about this, either, so thank you to those who have been gracious enough to patiently educate us on this topic :)

My SIL and her husband are Jewish (she converted from Methodist and his family is Jewish) but they are not very observant, from what I understand. When they attend, it's at a Reformed congregation in our city. I think they would be very kind in explaining the traditions to me, but I'm a little hesitant to ask for fear of being seen as ignorant or (unintentionally) impolite. I actually would like for them to take our kids to services with them on a holiday, to expose them to other religious traditions, but I'm hesitant to ask because I don't understand the protocol.

At any rate, this has prompted me to do some googling, and I found that my city apparently now has an eruv, funded by the Jewish community and overseen by the city. I think this is awesome, and I'm excited that our community--which has a history of inclusiveness--has once again proven it is a place of diversity and progressiveness.