Spinoff - Laura Shanley, freebirth "fundie"

[GeoBQn]

Such theories, she says, came out of “years of connecting the dots†in her practice. “Here’s an example: This young woman with polycystic ovaries is having no periods, and she’s very creative. She looks at the ultrasound of her ovaries and sees all the little cysts, and she goes, ‘Of course! I have a million different ideas for plays and one-woman shows, but I can’t get them out because I’m afraid of the criticism of others!’ And the minute she realized that—plus started a low-glycemic diet—bam! The polycystic ovarian syndrome goes away, and she starts having normal periods.â€

This deeply offends me both as a woman with PCOS and as a theatre practitioner.

[Freed]

Sounds like the batshittery of Carol Balizet.

[gezykah]

Linking infertility and ambivalence towards children is kind of like pointing out I'm less likely to eat mushrooms than most people because I don't like them. I'd love to see some of these so called studies. If you're less inerested in having children you'll be less likely to try having them but that does not mean you're infertile.

[sparkles]

Sounds like the batshittery of Carol Balizet.

Noooo! Carol Balizet/Zion Birth was one of the first things I read about when I started becoming interested in fundies. I really wondered what I was getting into.

[Mommy22alyns]

Oh, okay, I didn't have "positive" enough thoughts and THAT'S why my placenta implanted itself right over my cervix! My subconscious really wanted me and my DD to die! Boy, I should have just let that happen instead of getting that nasty old prenatal care and an evil C-section!

[ShadowyOne]

This whole idea is so incredibly offensive. Right at this moment, I have a perfect 8-week old snoozing at my breast while I type one-handed on the tablet. I had waaaaaaay more interventions than I would have liked, due to gestational diabetes: extra ultrasounds, twice-weekly non-stress tests for the last two months, low glycemic diet, daily glucose testing and insulin injections, culminating in a very unpleasant induction, for which I took an epidural which I would have preferred not to (I dilated two cm in half an hour from the meds, insanely painful, and baby's heart rate dropping from my stress). All in all, a lot of it is not the way that I wished it had gone. But - A) had I not had prenatal care, perhaps either baby or myself could have been damaged or died from complications that the prenatal care prevented, and B) IT WAS NOT MY FAULT. :angry-banghead: Even though it wasn't ideal, I did what I had to do for my health and that of my baby, and I wouldn't do otherwise just so I could walk around with a sanctimonious attitude.

Now excuse me while I watch to see if my little nugget will get to go to her first World Series game next week.

[Bbfamteam]

Oh and autism is caused by watching sesame street.

Oh crap. I was obsessed with sesame street as a little girl (was even in the fan club). I am a successful adult with no signs of autism. Do you think they'd say that my Sesame Street obsession led to my brother's autism as a punishment? Boy these people have taught me all kinds of things I didn't learn in med school.

[yarabess]

More WTF comments from Northrup:

And to think that I thought that ovarian cancer was linked to bad genes in some cases (BRCA1 and BRCA2), or to the number of times that a woman has ovulated (which is why birth control pills cut the risk).

Here's another example of her faux research:

The low-glycemic diet isn't a casual toss-away comment. It's actually a standard recommendation from conventional medicine for treating PCOS. It was most likely the diet that helped reverse the condition.

From here: http://www.wmagazine.com/beauty/2008/10/holistic_cures/

Good to know that my endometriosis is caused by either unexpressed rage or feelings of violation and, I must tell my doctor when I see her next week. She has known me for a while so I am fairly sure her expression will be :shock: followed by :lol: .

[freedomjesusfootball]

I remember reading in Christiane Northrup's book that women who suffer from pelvic pain almost always have a history of sexual abuse. There's good research on any connection between chronic pelvic pain and a hx of sexual abuse and there is none. Christiane is a fucking liar as far as I'm concerned. And batshit crazy.

I am currently doing research on pelvic pain, and women who have musculoskeletal based pain (rather than due to a problem with a pelvic organ) often, not always, do have a history of abuse and anxiety. Some people reflexively tighten their pelvic muscles when stressed, leading to basically muscle knots in the pelvic floor which causes pain. Actually, between 40-60% of adult women with chronic pain syndromes have a history of abuse. So while this lady may be a nut job, there is correlation. I am not citing sources because smartphone.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I'm not saying that mind-body connections do not exist, or denying that stress plays a role in some problems. It can be a factor which triggers things like fibromyalgia (a chronic pain condition that is not related to an obvious physical source), and auto-immune conditions often flare up under stress.

Northrup, though, takes that nugget of truth and runs with it into crazy town.

Yes, positive thoughts are good and can reduce harmful stress - but we do not control all physical phenomena with our minds. Your thoughts don't magically control your fertility, or your pregnancy, or prevent a placenta from implanting in the right place, or control whether a fetus gets tangled in the umbilical cord, etc. She's using her medical degree to give legitimacy to ideas that are completely unsupported by any medical evidence.

[August]

So, "ambivalence" about getting pregnant affects fertility - but apparently, being one hundred percent clear that you don't want a child does nothing. At least, this is my understanding, as I (unfortunately) got pregnant during a drunken one night stand at 19 (condom broke). There was never even a question of keeping that pregnancy.

Oh, and any "doctor" who attempts to link biological processes to mental health in a causal fashion is doing it wrong. Is there a relationship? Certainly. Can we definitively pinpoint how they work? Um, NO. Which is why there are NO STUDIES PENDING (at least not any that would give her the bullshit she spouts).

As a poster above stated, the gist is: HEY WOMEN!! IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT!

And we also know that the condom breaking was the devil's work, because even if godreally badly wants you to get pregnant, he's totally powerless to act against any contraceptive measure.

God, omnipotent except against latex!

[August]

Oh, okay, I didn't have "positive" enough thoughts and THAT'S why my placenta implanted itself right over my cervix! My subconscious really wanted me and my DD to die! Boy, I should have just let that happen instead of getting that nasty old prenatal care and an evil C-section!

But of course, you could totally have UC'd!

unhinderedliving.com/previa.html

In placenta praevia I fully recommend the method or plan of Dr. H. N. Guernsey, which is "in puncturing the membranes through the placenta and evacuating the liquor amnii." "The finger must explore a sulcus between the cotyledons of the placenta, and with the same hand a female catheter, previously concealed in the palm, must be forced through the placenta and the membranes during a pain." "The liquor amnii must be drawn off slowly: and as surely as it thus flows, so surely will the haemorrhage cease. After the waters have pretty much escaped, the finger may take the place of the catheter, and aid in tearing the orifice larger, so that the presenting parts may descend." This method applies whether the placenta is central or only partially over the os uteri.

I am not telling anyone with placenta previa what to do. Whether you choose to go to the hospital, or choose to stay home, this must be your decision, and you must be sure intuitively of what you are supposed to do. My experience with the intuition of birthing mothers is that you will get a very strong feeling of what you are supposed to do. Either you feel that the situation is life and death and that you cannot handle it, or you feel strongly that the situation will resolve itself. Follow that intuition. When you feel that the baby is presenting itself and that no further progress can be made unless the placenta is removed from the opening, tear a hole, allow the fluid to empty out, and help guide the membranes around the baby's head, bearing down gently as the contractions direct you.

Ask guidance from the baby, who will know what to do and can direct you.

I would definitely have on hand cayenne tincture and shepherd's purse, just in case you need help with hemorrhaging. See Hemorrhaging Before, During and After Birth

You may be thinking...."Why would someone in their right mind stay home if they know or suspect they have this condition?" Probably because they are aware of the many dangers that await them in the hospital, and how atrocious the American infant mortality statistics are for hospital birth. Possibly because they have had a previous birth experience that was very traumatic, and they refuse to subject themselves to the dangers of doctors and hospitals. And most importantly, they feel sure intuitively that the situation will be resolved safely.

(the method comes from a book written in India in 1921, when PP would have been a death sentence for a rural or poor woman, and so even the vaguest glimmer of hope would be better than standing by to watch them die)

[Lady Grass Lake]

I am alive today because of medical intervention, unfortunately, my daughter did not survive. She was breech until a week before she was born, but she turned, but face up so the back of her head was against my tail bone so horrible back labor. She had a meconium bowel movement in utero that got into the fluid. After labor not progressing I had a c-section. She inhaled the meconium which damaged her lungs. Her birth apgar was 0. She was revived but with brain damage and lived 20 hours. I was on massive doses of antibiotics to fight the infection and it was touch and go for me.

That was 30 years ago. Had it been in the 30's or 40's I wouldn't be here , nor my two amazing sons. Why anyone would take the risk of giving birth unassisted is insane!

[Kailash]

I am alive today because of medical intervention, unfortunately, my daughter did not survive. She was breech until a week before she was born, but she turned, but face up so the back of her head was against my tail bone so horrible back labor. She had a meconium bowel movement in utero that got into the fluid. After labor not progressing I had a c-section. She inhaled the meconium which damaged her lungs. Her birth apgar was 0. She was revived but with brain damage and lived 20 hours. I was on massive doses of antibiotics to fight the infection and it was touch and go for me.

That was 30 years ago. Had it been in the 30's or 40's I wouldn't be here , nor my two amazing sons. Why anyone would take the risk of giving birth unassisted is insane!

I am sorry for the loss of your daughter.

I don't think all unassisted childbirth is insane, though this particular woman might be. (Definitely risky from my point of view, and not something I would attempt.)

[MissA]

Mother of God. My jaw just literally dropped reading that. This deranged bitch is telling women to have an *unassisted* childbirth when they have *complete* placenta previa and to treat the inevitable hemorrhage with *pepper*?

How can she live with herself?

[August]

Mother of God. My jaw just literally dropped reading that. This deranged bitch is telling women to have an *unassisted* childbirth when they have *complete* placenta previa and to treat the inevitable hemorrhage with *pepper*?

How can she live with herself?

It's a tincture, not just pepper. Obviously makes all the difference.

They live with themselves because the really don't mind if babies die. And I'm not being facetious, I was fascinated by these nutjobs for a while, and they really think it's better the baby die than the mother get an emergency vaginal exam.

[PennySycamore]

Lady Grass Lake, I am so sorry about the loss of your daughter.

Penny -mom to Katherine, September 1987-August 1988

[2xx1xy1JD]

It's a tincture, not just pepper. Obviously makes all the difference.

They live with themselves because the really don't mind if babies die. And I'm not being facetious, I was fascinated by these nutjobs for a while, and they really think it's better the baby die than the mother get an emergency vaginal exam.

The mother would be dead too. She's pass out fairly quickly from rapid blood loss, so there might not be time to call 911 or use the cayenne potion.

Lady Grass Lake and Penny - I'm so sorry to read about both of your losses. It sounds heartbreaking.

[Cran]

Honestly?

If I was pregnant now (which I would regard as a perfect misfortune, but I also wouldn't abort), I would try everything in my power to have an unassisted pregnancy and birth. Not because I think it is "all natural" and "has no risks" or whatever. I hate and fear doctors to an extent where I am willing to risk my own life and health and the health and life of an unborn child.

And I think that I have the damned right to make this choice.

But claiming that its all for the best and has lower risks than, for example, a birth accompanied by certified midwivex who would transfer to a hospital of necessary is plain delusional.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

My second was an amazing homebirth with a certified nurse midwife. That's what I wanted and the care was great. So im obviously pro birth choices. The third was going to be a repeat performance but I was in tremendous pain and having irregular contractions and I knew something was wrong. That's where hospitals come in. Went in there, got an epidural for the pain, baby came out and then a messed up placenta because I had been abrupting. The pain was internal bleeding (pain was horrific). Everything was fine but I'm glad I had the sense to go to the hospital. What if I had fully abrupted at home? Baby would have died. That's why these people need a little common sense. Babies don't have to always die.

[PennySycamore]

My second was an amazing homebirth with a certified nurse midwife. That's what I wanted and the care was great. So im obviously pro birth choices. The third was going to be a repeat performance but I was in tremendous pain and having irregular contractions and I knew something was wrong. That's where hospitals come in. Went in there, got an epidural for the pain, baby came out and then a messed up placenta because I had been abrupting. The pain was internal bleeding (pain was horrific). Everything was fine but I'm glad I had the sense to go to the hospital. What if I had fully abrupted at home? Baby would have died. That's why these people need a little common sense. Babies don't have to always die.

My placenta started to abrupt with Katherine and I was bleeding. My doctor was watching her vital signs on the fetal heart monitor and noticed that they had begun to plummet. He had to use forceps to deliver her. He later apologized for how painful the birth was, but the forceps were necessary if she were to be saved. Her Apgar scores were 0 and 2 and Katherine had to be revived in the delivery room. He handed the baby over to the team from the NICU so fast that he did not even know what sex the baby was. Due to the good medical care that we had from our OB and the doctors, nurses, RTs, PTs, lab techs in the NICU we were able to have Katherine with us for 11 months.

[Peas n carrots]

Did this woman go to a real med school? I tried locating a bio or credentials but her blog didn't have anything listed.

[Three and Done]

If I had chosen to attempt a home birth with daughter #2, neither she or I would be here today, let alone daughter #3. I was induced on DD2's due date - not only did she get stuck in the birth canal and had to be delivered with forceps after two hours of pushing, I immediately began to hemorrhage the moment she came out. (My mother later told me that there was blood nearly to the door of the room.) DD3 was a planned c-section, for both of our sakes, and I don't regret it for one moment.

(This is leaving out the mess I went through with DD1, no less.)

According to the twisted fundie thought process, my 12 week miscarriage was MY fault too...

All of this garbage about "women's bodies knowing what to do" makes me want to break things. :angry-banghead:

Lady Grass Lake and Penny - I am sorry for your loss.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

My placenta started to abrupt with Katherine and I was bleeding. My doctor was watching her vital signs on the fetal heart monitor and noticed that they had begun to plummet. He had to use forceps to deliver her. He later apologized for how painful the birth was, but the forceps were necessary if she were to be saved. Her Apgar scores were 0 and 2 and Katherine had to be revived in the delivery room. He handed the baby over to the team from the NICU so fast that he did not even know what sex the baby was. Due to the good medical care that we had from our OB and the doctors, nurses, RTs, PTs, lab techs in the NICU we were able to have Katherine with us for 11 months.

I, too, am sorry for your loss ((hug))

[Cran]

Despite all anecdata presented here, we should not forget that it has been shown by several studies that homebirth is quite safe for low-risk women if overseen by a certified midwife (no doula, not someone who just "apprenticed" with a midwife, a certified one!) and is an entirely different cup of tea than "free"birthing/unassisted birth.

Btw, I learned recently that unassisted birth and pregnancy is banned in Austria. I doubt they'll actually fine you, but if you cannot give the required evidence that you had a certain number of checkups etc. during pregnancy, you'll get paid less child support.