Fuck You, Pro-Lifers, I Have Lost Respect for You...

[Mama Mia]

What's there to respect about sanctimonious a-holes that will dip their noses into other people's business to the point where they want to order them to eff up their lives and live miserably with a burden that they never wanted to, wanting to force women to carry their child to term because, apparently the so called life of a zygote is more valuable to them than that of a living, breathing person

AND they don't give a f*** about the babies that are born, they mock their mothers for most of these babies are born to young woman, god forsake girls, definitely out of wedlock

AND they would never help these mothers raise up their children.

As soon as out of the womb - who cares, except when it's come to judging the babymama. Throughout their lives.

Pro lifers are seldom willing to adopt, and when they adopt children, well, let's just say I have seen adoptive mothers from these circles and I shrugged reading their blogs.

They just keep pushing out their own biological children instead of adopting the same amount of abandoned children and providing for them

So all of them can lick my red ass! And I never ever thought otherwise!

I think that's a pretty narrow view of people's beliefs. I know lots of people who would be considered pro-life in most circumstances ( ok with legal abortion to save life/health of mother, serious fetal abnormality, rape/incest ...but not for other reasons ) . Most of them are extremely pro birth control, advocate for social services and financial supports, are anti-war and and wouldn't even dream of thinking badly about someone because they are sexually active.

I also know some tea party libertarians who are anti government assistance for anyone for anything, pro-gun, pro-death penalty who are also pro-choice.

Some of each group are religious, some aren't.

Real people often don't fit neatly into narrow philosophical boxes.

[maybeizfundie]

Real people often don't fit neatly into narrow philosophical boxes.

QFT.

It's almost, somewhat...fundamentalist, dare I say it, to take a certain group of people whose worldview or specific belief clashes with yours, generalize and stereotype them, and say, in essence "You are ALL horrible, awful people and I HATE YOU ALL."

[theologygeek]

I think that's a pretty narrow view of people's beliefs. I know lots of people who would be considered pro-life in most circumstances ( ok with legal abortion to save life/health of mother, serious fetal abnormality, rape/incest ...but not for other reasons ) . Most of them are extremely pro birth control, advocate for social services and financial supports, are anti-war and and wouldn't even dream of thinking badly about someone because they are sexually active.

I also know some tea party libertarians who are anti government assistance for anyone for anything, pro-gun, pro-death penalty who are also pro-choice.

Some of each group are religious, some aren't.

Real people often don't fit neatly into narrow philosophical boxes.

I agree with everything you said. Also, I would like to add that to deny a woman her right to an abortion requires an action. I would like the OP to enlighten me as to what my friend has done to deny a woman the right to abort. She doesn't picket, she votes Democrat, and she is not vocal about it on the internet, as her internet activities are limited to playing Candy Crush and checking her email. Perhaps she is using mental telepathy to deny women their right to an abortion?

[Anxious Girl]

I disagree. Pro-LIFE is also about denying women the choice to abort. That's why I call pro-lifers anti-choicers.

That's your definition. My friend, who by the way has taken more people into her home than you ever will, while not charging them anything to live there, would never judge anyone for getting an abortion.

[Anxious Girl]

I think that's a pretty narrow view of people's beliefs. I know lots of people who would be considered pro-life in most circumstances ( ok with legal abortion to save life/health of mother, serious fetal abnormality, rape/incest ...but not for other reasons ) . Most of them are extremely pro birth control, advocate for social services and financial supports, are anti-war and and wouldn't even dream of thinking badly about someone because they are sexually active.

I also know some tea party libertarians who are anti government assistance for anyone for anything, pro-gun, pro-death penalty who are also pro-choice.

Some of each group are religious, some aren't.

Real people often don't fit neatly into narrow philosophical boxes.

Again, that's a pro-choice. Why are you so afraid of that term? Why should I respect pro-lifers when their movement has done so much to undermine women? Has the pro-choice movement ever done that? Pro-life is about denying women abortions based on their morals, opinions and religious beliefs, or only granting a woman abortion access if the woman meets the requirements of a pro-life's person's morals, opinions and value; not based on what a woman herself in the situation wants. All I here is bawwing.

[Black Aliss]

They aren't pro-life, I refuse to call them that. They are pro-fetus, that's it.

They aren't even pro-fetus. If they were they'd make sure that every pregnant woman had pre-natal care, nutritional counseling, help getting off drugs and/or off the street.

They're not pro-anything. They are just anti-choice.

[Anxious Girl]

I agree with everything you said. Also, I would like to add that to deny a woman her right to an abortion requires an action. I would like the OP to enlighten me as to what my friend has done to deny a woman the right to abort. She doesn't picket, she votes Democrat, and she is not vocal about it on the internet, as her internet activities are limited to playing Candy Crush and checking her email. Perhaps she is using mental telepathy to deny women their right to an abortion?

She is part of a group of people that wants to deny women abortions. So, yeah. Still no respect for your friend. Baw some more.

[maybeizfundie]

And while there are undoubtedly some who do fit the stereotype of hateful, awful people, some of us know prolifers who very much don't, or are such, in fact. :)

My experience traveling in various circles--prolife, christian, and the overlap of the two--has been with people who care deeply for social justice, are not philosophically opposed to birth control, are very pro-adoption and themselves adopt, and actively work to alleviate poverty and suffering of others both locally and abroad. I have at least one friend who is libertarian, pro-birth control, agnostic, anti-war, and pro-life. Her opposition to abortion is not a religious one.

[theologygeek]

That's your definition. My friend, who by the way has taken more people into her home than you ever will, while not charging them anything to live there, would never judge anyone for getting an abortion.

Then she's pro-choice. If you're pro-life, that means you judge people for having abortions, and want women to not have abortions, no exceptions. Why are people afraid of the term pro-choice? Too bad. Your friend gets jack shit respect from me. When people who share her views aren't denying women abortions, then come talk to me. And even if you do, it still does jack shit, because pro-lifers have used anti-choice laws to shut down abortion clinics.

[jenny_islander]

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I will not take prolifers seriously until they start fighting just as hard for forced organ and blood donation. If you're okay with women not being in control of their bodies in order for another person to be born, you should be just as okay with strapping people down against their will and taking blood, harvesting bone marrow, pieces of liver and a kidney.

Until then, they need to STFU.

To be really pro-life, they would have to change society so that abortion would be automatically considered a last-ditch medical procedure because there would be no incentives to abort for other reasons.

End rape culture. End all sense of entitlement to women's bodies.

Shame all men who prey on naive girls. Shame all men who abandon their children. Shame them until the culture of machismo dries up and blows away.

Begin thorough explanations of the effects of puberty before puberty. Go on to sexual ethics, dangers of sex (the real dangers, not boogeymen), dangers of pregnancy (ditto, and teach this part to all students not just the cisgirls), and more sexual ethics.

Make buying contraceptives as ordinary as buying gum. Make contraceptives cheap or free and provide them everywhere.

Provide free pre-, peri-, and postnatal care to all mothers and their children, without needs tests, shame, blame, or judgment.

Make free or cheap child care in colleges and large workplaces so ubiquitous that not having a day care becomes as absurd as not having toilets.

Give all households the option of having one parent be the full-time caregiver to young children--even if it's a one-parent home. Pay stay-at-home legal parents the same as foster parents. Give full-time child care the dignity of any other difficult career. End forever the vicious lie of the welfare queen.

Give all children full medical coverage without needs tests.

[Anxious Girl]

Then she's pro-choice. If you're pro-life, that means you judge people for having abortions, and want women to not have abortions, no exceptions. Why are people afraid of the term pro-choice? Too bad. Your friend gets jack shit respect from me. When people who share her views aren't denying women abortions, then come talk to me. And even if you do, it still does jack shit, because pro-lifers have used anti-choice laws to shut down abortion clinics.

She's not pro choice. To deny a woman the right to an abortion would fall under #4. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ ... 100074&s=t My friend is doing that how? How is she withholding abortion from a woman?

[Anxious Girl]

And while there are undoubtedly some who do fit the stereotype of hateful, awful people, some of us know prolifers who very much don't, or are such, in fact. :)

My experience traveling in various circles--prolife, christian, and the overlap of the two--has been with people who care deeply for social justice, are not philosophically opposed to birth control, are very pro-adoption and themselves adopt, and actively work to alleviate poverty and suffering of others both locally and abroad. I have at least one friend who is libertarian, pro-birth control, agnostic, anti-war, and pro-life. Her opposition to abortion is not a religious one.

Then why would you identify with a group that aims to take away women's rights to abortion? Sorry those people and you aren't getting respect from me. So you can just fuck off.

[theologygeek]

She is part of a group of people that wants to deny women abortions. So, yeah. Still no respect for your friend. Baw some more.

Try again. You haven't backed up this accusation "Pro-LIFE is also about denying women the choice to abort." To deny someone a right requires an action. What action is she performing to do this?

[OkToBeTakei]

That's your definition. My friend, who by the way has taken more people into her home than you ever will, while not charging them anything to live there, would never judge anyone for getting an abortion.

Then she's pro-choice. If you're pro-life, that means you judge people for having abortions, and want women to not have abortions, no exceptions. Why are people afraid of the term pro-choice? Too bad. Your friend gets jack shit respect from me. When people who share her views aren't denying women abortions, then come talk to me. And even if you do, it still does jack shit, because pro-lifers have used anti-choice laws to shut down abortion clinics.

[OkToBeTakei]

Then why would you identify with a group that aims to take away women's rights to abortion? Sorry those people and you aren't getting respect from me. So you can just fuck off.

OH. Good debating skills :shock:

Get a grip and open your mind just a wee bit.

[Anxious Girl]

Try again. You haven't backed up this accusation "Pro-LIFE is also about denying women the choice to abort." To deny someone a right requires an action. What action is she performing to do this?

She is performing no action, but supports a group that does take action. Just because not all pro-lifers are like that doesn't equal what they have done to the minority of pro-choicers. David Dewhurst, a person who got elected as Texas govenor by conservatives, was supported by pro-lifers as he had people arrest peaceful pro-choice protesters, in Virginia, a govenor who has pro-life support is forcing women to pay for an ultrasound before they get abortions, and in North Dakota, only 1 abortion clinic is still open due to an anti-choice law that even though it was delayed in the Supreme Court, the pro-lifers don't care about the American Constitution, and are glad that only 1 abortion clinic is left there. What have pro-choicers done to deny pro-lifers rights'? Baww some more, it's fun.

[Anxious Girl]

Then she's pro-choice. If you're pro-life, that means you judge people for having abortions, and want women to not have abortions, no exceptions. Why are people afraid of the term pro-choice? Too bad. Your friend gets jack shit respect from me. When people who share her views aren't denying women abortions, then come talk to me. And even if you do, it still does jack shit, because pro-lifers have used anti-choice laws to shut down abortion clinics.

No.

You do not get to put people in a box of your choice because you stamp your feet. Tell me, considering abortion is legal up until 24 weeks in my country and beyond based on a case and personal reason basis how does being pro-life affect that? Because it does not. It is illegal to protest outside an abortion clinic here. Just because it may appear that way where you live by a few nuts is not the norm. You are doing nothing for the way the ignorant religious nuts in the US are viewed.

Pro-life is a CHOICE just as much as pro-choice. You are doing exactly what you are accusing others of. Imposing YOUR view of what you think it is. Not every pro-lifer is a woman hating nut as you conveniently want them to be.

[theologygeek]

Then why would you identify with a group that aims to take away women's rights to abortion? Sorry those people and you aren't getting respect from me. So you can just fuck off.

Honey, my crazy didn't come out yet, but you're pushing it. The only reason I have not ripped you a new one is because you sound so young, and I'd feel guilty unleashing the crazy on a kid.

[OkToBeTakei]

No.

You do not get to put people in a box of your choice because you stamp your feet. Tell me, considering abortion is legal up until 24 weeks in my country and beyond based on a case and personal reason basis how does being pro-life affect that? Because it does not. It is illegal to protest outside an abortion clinic here. Just because it may appear that way where you live by a few nuts is not the norm. You are doing nothing for the way the ignorant religious nuts in the US are viewed.

Pro-life is a CHOICE just as much as pro-choice. You are doing exactly what you are accusing others of. Imposing YOUR view of what you think it is. Not every pro-lifer is a woman hating nut as you conveniently want them to be.

It's a choice that overmines anybody else's choice. Kinda like how Christian fundies want to have freedom of religion, but only for Christianity. Some choices take others' choices away.

[Anxious Girl]

Honey, my crazy didn't come out yet, but you're pushing it. The only reason I have not ripped you a new one is because you sound so young, and I'd feel guilty unleashing the crazy on a kid.

How is being anti-pro-lifers nasty? I'm being serious. Why is it bad to be against people; the majority who overule the minority in their group who want to take away women's rights to abortion? I'm not trying to start a fight, but I'm just angry. I lost it. Please explain to me. I'm sorry if I'm been nasty, but it just boils me down. Is it ok for me to not respect pro-lifers? Why?

[Mama Mia]

How is being anti-pro-lifers nasty? I'm being serious. Why is it bad to be against people; the majority who overule the minority in their group who want to take away women's rights to abortion? I'm not trying to start a fight, but I'm just angry. I lost it. Please explain to me. I'm sorry if I'm been nasty, but it just boils me down. Is it ok for me to not respect pro-lifers? Why?

Your problem when you share your views, IMHO, is that you are so abrasive and so antagonistic that any point you have is lost. You choose to lump entire diverse groups of people into one very narrow box and refuse to listen when people tell you that those boxes don't always fit. You seem to assume that everyone who falls towards an anti-abortion view is out actively campaigning for abortion restrictions and /or basing their political affiliation on this one issue, despite people telling you this is not necessarily true.

For example, I would prefer there were some restrictions on elective abortions, particularly past the first trimester-- but I care much, much more about people being provided with good health care and social supports, and environmental protection and marriage equality and a host of other issues. So my vote isn't going to go to the right wing candidate who disagrees with me on the issues I care about most.

When you basically throw a temper tantrum every time someone disagrees with you, you aren't helping make your point. It just comes across like a kid who has just learned that swearing causes a reaction, so they insist on swearing at the top of their lungs to try to shock people.

This isn't trying to be hand slappy or tell you how to post, I'm just telling you that being so hostile doesn't help you convince anyone of anything.

[theologygeek]

She is performing no action, but supports a group that does take action. .

Ah. So you must be one of those who supports genetically modified food? You must be, seeing as how Obama signed the Monsanto Protection Act. You're not a D...D...D...emocrat, are you? Shudder at the thought. You can't be part of that group, as their leader is trying to poison us. Speaking of poison, here are all the food companies that are also trying to kill us. http://fracturedparadigm.com/2013/04/02 ... z2clVGR6QC If your money is going to any of these food companies, you are part of a group that supports Monsanto. Has your state legalized gay marriage? I hope you're not paying taxes in a state that does not have gay marriage. You need to move if you are. Only the sick fucks pay taxes in states that don't have gay marriage legalized. Do not be part of that group! Can't go to Catholic church-can't support the pedophiles. Anyone who owns an Apple product, all I have to say to you is this...Congratulations, you just took the food out of little Junior's mouth. Apple outsources 100% of their manufacturing to China. How dare you sick fucks be part of a group that takes the jobs from the good ole US of A. Speaking of USA, I hope you all only buy products made in the US. If you don't, you can blame yourselves for taking ballet lessons away from little Suzie. Her mother's shop closed because a Walmart sprung up down the street. Speaking of Walmart, you had better not buy those evil Hershey bars there when they go on sale. Walmart has killed small businesses and has also forced many manufacturing plants to close. Attention Walmart shoppers: Thank you for being part of a group that has participated in killing the US economy. Speaking of Hershey bars, remember the next time you eat one that a boarding school with ties to Hershey's denied admittance to a child who is HIV positive. (voice going into a whisper now) We won't even discuss Hershey's and child labor on West African cocoa farms. Child abusers you all are for being a part of that group! You lushes out there need to abstain from Vodka because of Russia's aggressive anti gay laws. Vodka drinkers hate gays. Say no to Crest toothpaste! How dare you be part of a group that tests on animals. Damn that Proctor & Gamble. Shall I go on?

[Sass]

So let me get this straight: you (theologygeek and OKTBT) are saying it's possible to be pro-life but not advocate against or try to prevent other people having abortions? So...that sounds pro-choice to me. Either you think it's okay to deny other people abortions based on your own morals or you don't...I don't see a middle ground here.

[Mama Mia]

So let me get this straight: you (theologygeek and OKTBT) are saying it's possible to be pro-life but not advocate against or try to prevent other people having abortions? So...that sounds pro-choice to me. Either you think it's okay to deny other people abortions based on your own morals or you don't...I don't see a middle ground here.

Of course there is a middle ground.

You could favor some abortion restrictions in theory but not spend your time advocating for changes in laws. You could vote for politicians not based on their abortion views, but on other issues. You can spend a substantial amount of time and money promoting services that will lessen the need for abortion. You could work and advocate so that women aren't put in a position where they are choosing abortion based on not having enough money to raise a child. You could even be strongly anti-abortion but fight against people protesting in front of clinics or handing out plastic fetuses and graphic materials at public events.

There is also the vast middle ground between wanting a ban on all abortions from the moment of potential conception, including many forms of birth control, for any reason including to save the mothers life and the opposite extreme of wanting abortion available on demand for any reason at all up until full-term.

[treehugger]

There is always a middle ground. I'm going to regret posting on this thread, I know it - but, there are pro-life people who would never consider an abortion for themselves - yet, they will not deny anyone else the right to chose. You could consider them pro-choice, but they will not see it that way, because for them, they do not have that choice.

I'm pro-choice and in theory, I support abortion up till full-term because I know that there are circumstances in which these types of abortions are necessary, and I would never want any woman facing a full-term abortion to have to deal with any crap. But, honestly, the idea does make me uncomfortable, simply because at some point, a fetus does start to look like baby. I have a hard time with that even though I am pro-choice. I am not militantly pro-choice, but I am pro-choice none-the-less.