Fuck You, Pro-Lifers, I Have Lost Respect for You...

[formergothardite]

If this woman didn't want to risk her life and health by getting pregnant, then why did she try to get pregnant? She would have had the baby if her boyfriend left his wife. Going by your argument, why is a man punished by paying 18 years of child support for a baby that he didn't want? On the other side, why can't a man have the right to raise a baby that is half his? If a woman wants an abortion, the man can't stop it. The point is that abortion=mess many times and the two labels don't fit at all.

So basically, the whore should have kept her legs shut. She can die over a pregnancy that she no longer wants because you think she deserves it. This is her punishment for being such a bad person. So you fall into the category of people I mentioned before who want to punish women.

When a man is being forced to donate his body for child support and risk his life and health, go through months of horrific pain, and have his body never be the same again, then it can be compared to a pregnancy. Until then, nope, can't be compared.

[Anxious Girl]

So basically, the whore should have kept her legs shut. She can die over a pregnancy that she no longer wants because you think she deserves it. This is her punishment for being such a bad person. So you fall into the category of people I mentioned before who want to punish women.

When a man is being forced to donate his body for child support and risk his life and health, go through months of horrific pain, and have his body never be the same again, then it can be compared to a pregnancy. Until then, nope, can't be compared.

Do you think that theologygeek should be on the troll radar? Why or why not?

[formergothardite]

I don't remember her saying anything trollish before. I could have forgotten, though. It sounds like she is mad at that woman and mad that she didn't have to suffer. She wanted her to suffer and she got out of it and she thinks it is unfair.

[Anxious Girl]

I don't remember her saying anything trollish before. I could have forgotten, though. It sounds like she is mad at that woman and mad that she didn't have to suffer. She wanted her to suffer and she got out of it and she thinks it is unfair.

Why do you think theologygeek wants to make her suffer? :think: * in case she comes back and says, "I'm sticking up for my friend!/devil's advocate/what about the other side?" *

[formergothardite]

Why do you think theologygeek wants to make her suffer? :think: * in case she comes back and says, "I'm sticking up for my friend!/devil's advocate/what about the other side?" *

Suffer was the wrong word. I think from reading her post she thinks the woman should have been punished in some way for having gotten pregnant by a guy who was married. She made her bed by getting pregnant and she should have been forced to lie in it sort of thing. Except she didn't have to. She had an abortion. She didn't have to suffer the physical consequences of getting pregnant and she thought she should have had to. That is the vibe I got from that.

[theologygeek]

Do you think that theologygeek should be on the troll radar? Why or why not?

First the little girl calls people sick fucks if they don't agree with her opinion on abortion. Now they are trolls. You are worse than a fundie.

[Anxious Girl]

Wtf? One of my best friends is pro life. She's a non practicing Jew and a Democrat. She simply believes that life starts at conception and does not judge anyone who has had an abortion. How old are you? You sound like a kid.

I'm not sure that women should always have the choice.

If this woman didn't want to risk her life and health by getting pregnant, then why did she try to get pregnant? She would have had the baby if her boyfriend left his wife. Going by your argument, why is a man punished by paying 18 years of child support for a baby that he didn't want? On the other side, why can't a man have the right to raise a baby that is half his? If a woman wants an abortion, the man can't stop it. The point is that abortion=mess many times and the two labels don't fit at all.

How is this not trolling, theologygeek?

[theologygeek]

Suffer was the wrong word. I think from reading her post she thinks the woman should have been punished in some way for having gotten pregnant by a guy who was married. She made her bed by getting pregnant and she should have been forced to lie in it sort of thing. Except she didn't have to. She had an abortion. She didn't have to suffer the physical consequences of getting pregnant and she thought she should have had to. That is the vibe I got from that.

I said "I'm not sure." I do think she should have either kept her legs closed or used birth control. She tried to break up a family, she tried to get pregnant by deceiving, she ended the pregnancy when she did get pregnant, and she broke her mother's heart. Now I hear through the grapevine that she is going out with another married man and her mother doesn't know about it. This young woman needs to be held accountable for her actions because she is taking down innocent people, including children, in her path.

[Lainey]

First, let me say that I am strongly pro-choice.

However, disagreement =/= troll. C'mon.

[Anxious Girl]

I said "I'm not sure." I do think she should have either kept her legs closed or used birth control. She tried to break up a family, she tried to get pregnant by deceiving, she ended the pregnancy when she did get pregnant, and she broke her mother's heart. Now I hear through the grapevine that she is going out with another married man and her mother doesn't know about it. This young woman needs to be held accountable for her actions because she is taking down innocent people, including children, in her path.

If you're not about labels (and your pro-life friend doesn't judge women who get abortions but the majority of the pro-life group do like you who think that women should simply keep their legs closed;) why are you trying to give good examples of how pro-life people can be caring but judging? Don't you see the contradiction there?

[Anxious Girl]

First, let me say that I am strongly pro-choice.

However, disagreement =/= troll. C'mon.

Well, theologygeek is trying to lecture me on why I shouldn't call pro-lifers sick fucks when the majority of them have passed anti-choice laws that deprive womens' right to choose abortion as an available option in America. I can choose which groups to respect, and frankly, fundies and pro-lifers are people who I think don't deserve respect. Why should it matter to her if I don't respect a group of people who have taken womens' rights away?

[theologygeek]

I don't remember her saying anything trollish before. I could have forgotten, though. It sounds like she is mad at that woman and mad that she didn't have to suffer. She wanted her to suffer and she got out of it and she thinks it is unfair.

I don't want anyone to suffer-not the girl, her mother, or the family she tried to take down. I don't want to see men suffer either if they want to raise their baby. I'm not pro choice or pro life. There are too many variables and each situation is different. Heck, if the girl asked me to take her home from an abortion, I'd go and get her. If she needed help with the baby, I'd help her. But that doesn't negate the fact that she is going to have to learn to stop her destructive behavior.

[Anxious Girl]

I don't want anyone to suffer-not the girl, her mother, or the family she tried to take down. I don't want to see men suffer either if they want to raise their baby. I'm not pro choice or pro life. There are too many variables and each situation is different. Heck, if the girl asked me to take her home from an abortion, I'd go and get her. If she needed help with the baby, I'd help her. But that doesn't negate the fact that she is going to have to learn to stop her destructive behavior.

What? Having sex? Having an abortion? It's none of your business why a woman has an abortion or sex. It's her choice. If she doesn't want to go through a pregnancy, then she has the right to an abortion. She's being responsible if she knows that she's not in the right position to go through with a pregnancy. You, on the other hand, do not control what you deem appropriate situations for women when they decide to have abortions.

[dairyfreelife]

Well, if we look at it that way, then he should also know that having sex could get her pregnant, right? Perhaps he should have used a condom? Or even better, not be having a mistress on the side unknown to the wife. It takes two to tango, so I dislike the shaming of women for being a "home wrecker" and that it is always her who is trying to sabotage the marriage. Maybe she is, but he is equally at fault for trying to ruin the marriage by agreeing to sleep with someone else on the side. This goes back to the idea of woman as evil beings that make men do bad things, but yet the same people who say this think that men are more logical and stronger and more intelligent than women. It sounds like a bad position to bring a child in, does it not? A mom who was a scorned mistress by the married man she didn't get and could resent them? A father who was married and wants jack shit to do with them because he wants to prevent the child or relationship never happened? No one is a winner in that situation and the biggest loser of all who'd get the biggest punishment is the child that would have resulted and none of what happened was their fault.

[SpeakNow]

If you try to "punish" women by carrying an unwanted pregnancy to term, you are also "punishing" the fetus by creating a situation in which the mother had a child she does not want. In the end, the child will suffer.

[Mama Mia]

I completely agree with you. I also identify myself as pro-choice. To me it is not about the personal choice one would make, but the fact that you want the choice there. I have no issue reconciling that. It makes complete sense to me.

Maybe I misunderstood what I read, but a couple of posters said they were "pro-life" but believed women should maintain the right to choose. I was simply wondering if this "pro-life" referred to the movement we refer to as anti-choice. Since they are already choosing to identify themselves, why not identify as pro-choice? What is wrong about that term? I get that you can be pro-life, as pro-choicers are more liekly to be pro-life (all life, not just the life of a fetus), but I am having difficulty understanding why you would choose not to identify as pro-choice.

Feel free to ignore me if this is making no sense. I feel like I may not be explaining my question well. And I am certainly not directing it to right people. After happy hour, I may go back and find quotes, lol.

Well, I think this where the shades of gray come in. I, personally, am not really comfortable as identifying as either staunchly pro-life or pro-choice. Because both positions, when used by advocate groups, seem really extreme.

It isn't even an issue I discuss anywhere but here, its not something I would base my political decisions on, but its an issue I have mixed feelings about.....not only for my personal choices (I had an abortion as a young teen that I regret), but legally.

Primarily around the issue of abortion being legal when the fetus is at or near the point of viability unless it is to save the life of the mother or in cases of non-viability/severe abnormality. I understand later term abortions are very rare, and almost always due to these emergency reasons. But I have no problem with elective abortion being illegal except in those cases. Many laws are made to prevent rare occurances, so I don't understand the argument that we should always trust women to do what's right, we dont trust people to do what's right in general, that's why laws exist, and I don't see that circumstance as being any different. So in that case I would clearly fall in with the anti abortion camp. However in many other areas I would fall in the pro-choice camp......so it is difficult to just "pick a side"

[Mama Mia]

So it looks like the troll who doesn't care about labels but claims that her pro-life friend who isn't like that and questions why women get pregnant flounces. I called it! :D

FFS why is it absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for you to understand the correct meaning of the word troll ???

Once AGAIN - Troll does NOT mean anyone who has a different opinion from you ! :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[Anxious Girl]

FFS why is it absolutely IMPOSSIBLE for you to understand the correct meaning of the word troll ???

Once AGAIN - Troll does NOT mean anyone who has a different opinion from you ! :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

Well, she got mad at me for calling pro-lifers names when the majority of them vote people into power to shut down abortion clinics in the south and then proceeds to explain why she says I shouldn't call them names. It's like somebody defending a Christian fundie who hands out pamphlets with church propaganda to trick-or-treaters who might not be different. That's why I call her a troll; because she wants to control who I respect and don't respect. I certainly have no respect for her.

[formergothardite]

Is making her have the baby really the best way to hold this woman accountable for having affairs with men who were happy to have an affair? Most of the time babies born in these situations where the mother originally didn't want them are not given up for adoption at birth. Most likely if she had been denied an abortion it would not have ended up with the child being raised by the grandmother. Do you think that that woman would have provided a stable home life for the child? What about the dad? Is he going to resent this child? How is his marriage going to go once he has to start paying child support. Your accountability is bringing a child into a situation where it really isn't wanted.

[Sass]

I'm not sure that women should always have the choice.

The point is that abortion=mess many times and the two labels don't fit at all.

Yeah, sometimes it is messy and complicated. But that is precisely why the woman SHOULD always have the choice. Because no matter how many laws you pass about the subject, you can never anticipate the situation of every woman who is seeking an abortion. Continuing a pregnancy that you do not want can cost you your life, your livelihood, destroy you financially, cause serious issues at home (what if you're a teenager and your parents find out and kick you out of the house, huh?). It can ruin your life. You don't have to deal with the consequences of someone else being forced to continue a pregnancy, and it certainly isn't your business to shame others because "their reasons aren't good enough" according to your own personal ideals.

Also, a child should never, EVER be a "consequence." Parenthood is a huuuge responsibility that nobody should have to take on unless they are 100% sure that they can provide and care for said child.

[Mama Mia]

So basically, the whore should have kept her legs shut. She can die over a pregnancy that she no longer wants because you think she deserves it. This is her punishment for being such a bad person. So you fall into the category of people I mentioned before who want to punish women.

When a man is being forced to donate his body for child support and risk his life and health, go through months of horrific pain, and have his body never be the same again, then it can be compared to a pregnancy. Until then, nope, can't be compared.

Seriously, what are the actual odds she is going to die from the pregnancy ? She probably runs a greater risk of death by driving over to her married lovers house to have the affair.

If I understand Theology Geek correctly, her issue is with someone purposefully taking on all the risks of pregnancy if she could manipulate the situation to her advantage, but terminating just because things aren't working out according to her plan -- I agree that if you are purposefully getting pregnant and then terminating because things aren't going the way you want, and you are physically healthy, there are financial and social supports and even a family member willing to raise the child...that is destructive behavior. I, personally, don't think that is something that can be legislated, its too vague, but I can certainly see why people who know her are upset.

[Anxious Girl]

Yeah, sometimes it is messy and complicated. But that is precisely why the woman SHOULD always have the choice. Because no matter how many laws you pass about the subject, you can never anticipate the situation of every woman who is seeking an abortion. Continuing a pregnancy that you do not want can cost you your life, your livelihood, destroy you financially, cause serious issues at home (what if you're a teenager and your parents find out and kick you out of the house, huh?). It can ruin your life. You don't have to deal with the consequences of someone else being forced to continue a pregnancy, and it certainly isn't your business to shame others because "their reasons aren't good enough" according to your own personal ideals.

Also, a child should never, EVER be a "consequence." Parenthood is a huuuge responsibility that nobody should have to take on unless they are 100% sure that they can provide and care for said child.

And some people don't realize this is why I call pro-lifers names or don't respect them. David Dewhurst, a self-proclaimed pro-lifer, is literally banning demonstrations, taking away womens' reproductive items in his courthouse and McCrory of North Carolina gave women cookies when they were protesting his pro-life laws. So, yeah, they are sick fucks, and I have no respect for them. If these are the kind of people pro-lifers of theologygeek's friend's want to be associated with, then they need to find a new label for themselves, or just expect to be disrespected.

[August]

Well, theologygeek is trying to lecture me on why I shouldn't call pro-lifers sick fucks when the majority of them have passed anti-choice laws that deprive womens' right to choose abortion as an available option in America. I can choose which groups to respect, and frankly, fundies and pro-lifers are people who I think don't deserve respect. Why should it matter to her if I don't respect a group of people who have taken womens' rights away?

What I want to know is why you ever respected them?

[Anxious Girl]

Seriously, what are the actual odds she is going to die from the pregnancy ? She probably runs a greater risk of death by driving over to her married lovers house to have the affair.

If I understand Theology Geek correctly, her issue is with someone purposefully taking on all the risks of pregnancy if she could manipulate the situation to her advantage, but terminating just because things aren't working out according to her plan -- I agree that if you are purposefully getting pregnant and then terminating because things aren't going the way you want, and you are physically healthy, there are financial and social supports and even a family member willing to raise the child...that is destructive behavior. I, personally, don't think that is something that can be legislated, its too vague, but I can certainly see why people who know her are upset.

Well, the poor women who can't afford abortions, the poor women who are disabled and can't afford it, the women who does not want to lose their jobs due to pregnancy, the women who do not want to bring a child conceived of rape who know they will will abuse/neglect the child because he/she reminds them so much of their rapist, the women who carry nonviable fetuses, the women who simply doesn't want to have a child and have adoption regret, and oh yeah; WOMEN WHO DON'T WANT TO BE PREGNANT! Why do women have to justify their abortions for you? Who are you to decide in what circumstances and when women can get abortions?

[Anxious Girl]

What I want to know is why you ever respected them?

Because when I was little, I was taught to respect everybody; no matter what they contributed to or did. Now I have come to my own conclusions that respect is derseved. I respect based on actions and how they affect society and respect people who don't associate themselves with unsavory groups, yet demand to be respected because they're not "all like that." I'm tired of being the nice girl and accepting intolerance in disguise of charity and kindness.